M1 Garand General Discussion

[slim1836]

As it states, general discussion.

I just today acquired a M1 born in December 1943 i believe. I always wanted one to pass down to my grandson. I am so blessed, however, I am M1 ignorant to the max.

I'll be getting better acquainted in time, but will have questions so don't laugh too loud. I'm going to start out with:
1. Any good technical sites?
2. Any tech books for download?
3. Any good surplus part sites?
4. I saw on the internet someone mentioned making changes to the buffering to prevent modern ammo from damaging the weapon? T/F
5. Cast boolits function 0k in M1? T/F
6. What factory works for you?

In other words, any help info is appreciated, not going to the range until I get to know her much better.

Slim

[Walks]

You don't need to do anything to the gas system as long as you are using ammo loaded with a medium burning rate powder.
The M-1 was designed around the then current (1920-1930's) ammo.
I believe that #4895 was that powder.
Modern Hunting ammo loaded with slow burning powder has a different pressure peak and can/will damage the Op-Rod.

Some reloading manuals offer Special Garand loads.

Numrich Arms offers most M-1 Parts.

There are replacement Adjustable Gas Cylinders that are available to tune your rifle for accuracy or even light lead loads. I have no personal experience with them.
The lead loads I shoot require hand operation of the bolt each time.

Some of the Ammo company's have offered M-1 Garand ammo as factory rounds.
It Says so right other box.

All I can offer.

[Cast10]

Nice rifle! The operating rod on the M1 is a special item when firing factory ammo. Too slow a powder and it will bend the rod making it inoperative. I believe Federal makes a 30/06 FMJ load and it states its for M1/Service Rifles. Smellier & Bellot makes a M2 ball ammo, Privi Partisan does too.

Check out the CMP website. Lots of GI manuals and links, etc. Fulton-Armory is a good resource as is Brownell’s.

If you reload, check out AA2460 and the CMP website will have a forum and you can get some good reloading data, parts places, etc.

[Stewbaby]

Greasing it properly and having in spec springs is the biggest help toward safe and reliable operation.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210410/78b4d2e9cfe8858690bd2f8cb8f0a2c0.jpg


Here is the old tried and true NRA ‘Master Po’ load data. Be wary of anemic load data like the Hornady manual (apparently written by lawyers).

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210410/bc8c63e78d543f33e382cbc8cc2def8d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210410/4d39e2bb5fbbb2f755688ca4d52abb9f.jpg

[TNsailorman]

Fulton Armory is the best M1 people I have dealt with. They have parts, books and can even do repair work on the M1. None better. IMR4895 is the powder for the M1 and IMR4064 will work also. There is a lot of information on the CMP site also. Then there is the M1 Garand Collectors Association. There are adjustable gas plugs that let you regulate the amount of gas that the port allows to pass to the operating rod but unless you are loading outside the regular parameters you will have no need for one. It is called a Schuster gas adjusting plug and they sell them at Brownells. I feed my Garand 150 grain FMJ or 147 FMJ and nothing else. I use IMR4895 powder and I keep velocity around the 2700 fps. That is what the Garand was designed for. I have never used lead bullets in any Garand but I have read where some people do so successfully. If you bend your operating rod by using hot loads or heavy bullets, you might just be up the creek. It would be a good thing if you can find a spare somewhere but they are getting very scarce and high dollar when you find them. I am a Garand man through and through. I carried one in service and I learned to love them. Take a look at the Fulton Armory site at FultonArmory.com. It is a candy store of M1's, M1 Carbines, M1A's and their service and parts. james

[hwilliam01]

slim1836

You may find this useful: http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition

[Ford SD]

Check your recoil spring

M1 Garand recoil Spring

Proper length is 19 3/4 to 20 1/4" when new.


I have used new wolf spring (longer than spec) do not cut .....
with full function with the correct load 147-150 or 165-158 with Imr / H 4895

these loads were below max for service rifle

:) just a nice 3006 recoil in a 9Plus pound rifle ;)

[slim1836]

Thanks guys, the bent operating rod issues worries me some. I don't know what's currently in it or what I should have. The fun has just begun, I need a M1 for dummies book.

All these comments are very useful to me, I'm gonna luv it.

Slim

[Texas by God]

Got clips?
Such serious feeling rifles- I'd love to have another one some day.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[M-Tecs]

Gas port pressure is why some loads are harder on the op rod than others. They do make venting plug http://schustermfg.com/m1-garand-adjustable-gas-plug/ but if you don't use powers slower the 4895 or 4064 and keep bullets under 180 grains you won't have issues

[Baltimoreed]

Congrats, a great rifle. Mine is a Boyds laminate stocked Heinz with a 70s SA commercial recvr and old gi parts that most were gifted to me. Sure isn’t original but is still a real joy to shoot. Just remember to keep your thumb out of the way of the bolt.

[slim1836]

Congrats, a great rifle. Mine is a Boyds laminate stocked Heinz with a 70s SA commercial recvr and old gi parts that most were gifted to me. Sure isn’t original but is still a real joy to shoot. Just remember to keep your thumb out of the way of the bolt.

So far, so good. Don't look forward to it when it does bite me through my ignorance. LOL

Slim

[Remiel]

https://www.dupagetrading.com/product-category/parts/m1-garand-parts/

https://www.ammogarand.com/m1-garand-part.html

https://www.sarcoinc.com/rifle-parts/m1-garand/

Just a few places for parts and stuff.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Agarbers]

https://thegca.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/M2-Ball-Facts-vs-Myth.pdf
https://forums.thecmp.org/
https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/

[Baltimoreed]

Even though the bolt/op rod is being held open by the op rod catch remember to hold the op rod with the heel of your rt hand while loading a clip. Once the clip locks in place and releases the catch the heel of your hand controls the op rod and the bolt. Straighten your thumb and roll your wrist upward to release the bolt while keeping your palm flat to to side of the action and your thumb will naturally stay out of the way. Having operating opposable thumbs is good. Hope cats don’t ever evolve and get them. Good shooting.

[Adam Helmer]

Slim,

I have a few Garands and all like my hard cast boolits and 36 grains of IMR4895. My cast boolits are Lyman #311467 (176 grains) and best is the Lee C312-185-R. I use old WW and a dash of tin and drop all boolits from the mould into a bucket of water and gas check. The 185 hits to the same POA/POI as my 150 grain J load at 100 yards. I like it so well, I deem the 185 "Ball Substitute" and shoot it to 400 yards on my farm gong targets.

I have no barrel leading and clean the gas tube twice a year with no big problems noted. Hope this helps.

Adam

[oldsalt444]

The main issue is the op rod and muzzle pressure that moves the op rod. Slow burning powders will hold a pressure spike longer in the barrel and when it reaches the muzzle port the pressure will be higher than it should be. As stated above, using the wrong powder will eventually bend it and it will be expensive if not impossible to get a new one. DO NOT use factory hunting ammo. Use ammo designed for M1 Garand and that is stated on the box. Hornady and a few others make it. If you insist on using bolt gun ammo, then get an adjustable gas plug like the Schuster.

The M1 was designed around the military M2 ball round using H4895 powder. For reloading, use powders in the burn rate between IMR 3031 and 4064 and bullets not exceeding 180 gr. and you'll be fine. See Master Po's loads.

[376Steyr]

A huge amount of historical, and a fair amount of technical, information is available on https://forums.thecmp.org/ Beware, most of the guys on the forum are collectors, and spend most of their time obsessing over serial numbers and dates of manufacture. The search feature is your friend.
A great book for introduction to the M1 is "The M1 Owner's Guide" by Scott Duff https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1888722037/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Watch out, because collecting Garands is like eating potato chips, it's hard to stop at just one! Right now the CMP is swamped with orders, so the wait time is significant and selection is limited, but they are still a great deal.

[Multra]

There is a lot of doubt that commercial 30-06 ammo will damage an m1 garand. I believe there is even someone on the CMP forums offering money for proof of factory ammo bending an op rod. Get a Schuster plug and don't try to make the hottest loads known to man and you should be fine.

[Digger]

Have a "Tanker" garand in 308 , it is so enjoyable !
picked it up years ago and checked out the op rod and yes , it was slightly bent ,rubbing on the housing ...
Took a guess that even in 308 ,it had off the shelf factory hunting loads put thru it and it affected the rod.
One day out of curiosity I put the rod thru a small series of hands on bench bending by inserting it into a pipe clamped down on my work bench and with a bit of padding in the pipe I very carefully and incrementally bent the rod back into position ..
Since then using my own loads as recommended with cast it has done very well as I do not push the upper pressure limits .
While here ... I will question the knowledge at hand , What are the parts to have as the the action gets worn ?
What are the individual pieces that should be replaced with time ?
Thank you.

[TNsailorman]

So far the only part that I have had to replace was an extractor. But that was because I had an HRA that was 100% correct except for the extractor which was a Springfield. I did locate and find a new op rod just in case I ever needed it. Fingers crossed. I have been told I needed to find a new firing pin as they are prone to wear but I haven't found this to be a problem as yet. I am going to find a new wolfe complete spring kit to salt away.

[Hick]

So much excellent info above! The only thing I can add is that, for my M1, I bought a spare gas plug and machined out the center. Replacing the original gas plug with the machined out plug turns the M1 into a "pull bolt" rifle. In other words, you have to pull on the bolt to eject, then release and let the spring load the next round. Why did I do this? It gives me control over when my brass gets tossed at the neighboring shooting bench, and allows me to try many additional loads without worrying about the op rod. Of course, when I want to operate in semi-auto I just put the original gas plug back in.

[Mk42gunner]

Not a lot of M-1 experience, but a couple of decades working with M-14's. Very similar rifles.

The most aggravating thing to adjust is the tension on the rear sight pinion. Too tight and you can't adjust the sights, too loose and the elevation will fall on recoil.

M-1 pinions are calibrated in yards, M-14's (or M1A's) in meters.

Robert

[charlie b]

My Garand has the locking bar on the rear sight. Loosen bar, adjust sights, tighten bar. Works well.

[derek45]

I feed mine IMR4895 and Jacketed

https://i.imgur.com/qcbUvbF.png

https://i.imgur.com/chkgDWg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KQHx1BV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/89o2rRB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/40Mh8O7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bktdq89.jpg

[avogunner]

Thanks guys, the bent operating rod issues worries me some. I don't know what's currently in it or what I should have. The fun has just begun, I need a M1 for dummies book.

All these comments are very useful to me, I'm gonna luv it.

Slim

Hey Slim,
You'll love the M1! In regards to the op rod though, by design they have two bends which are very apparent to the naked eye. Apologies if you already know that but as you say you're unfamiliar with Garands, I didn't want you to think you already had a bent (out of spec) rod. Do a "tilt test" and see how she runs (with mil-spec) ammo....more than likely you'll be happy!
Semper Fi

[avogunner]

Great Pics Derek,
I shot a GSM match at Quantico yesterday....this pic is from the 200yd line. These are monthly matches and I alternate Garands to give them all good exercise.
Semper Fi
281145

[slim1836]

avogunner,

I was at Quantico back in '72 for OCS school, actually at Camp Upshur. Would enjoy visiting it again, wonder if the old quonset huts are still being used.

I know I'm going to enjoy my M1, still looking for original accessories along with getting better acquainted with it.

Slim

[GooseGestapo]

DO NOT USE FEDERAL PRIMERS !!!!
Nor 4831 or 4350 burn rate powders!
Use of Federal primers can result in slam fires, and slow burning powders bent op-rods.

Don’t ask me how I know about the primers.
H4895 has given me the best performance in the Garands.
Presently I’m using ShootersWorld Match Rifle (similar to Acc2520) and Precision Rifle (analogous to Varget) with good results.

[charlie b]

I use Federal match primers in mine.

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk

[GregLaROCHE]

I enjoyed mine a lot. It’s now passed down to my eldest son. It’s nice to know a gun is going to stay in he family. My second son has my 03A3 that was passed down to me from my father.

[Remiel]

Primer wise, I stick with cci large rifle or military spec. Powder is varget, imr 4885 and imr4064. I use military brass only to keep my loads and my wife's separate to prevent mixup. Though once my 03a3 is finished I'm going to have more fun.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[Andy45]

I've had great luck with IMR-4064 and 168 gr. Sierra bullets.

I rarely see Garands for sale at LGSs. Yesterday the biggest one around had 12 in the rack! Somebody must have sold off their collection. :wink:

[TNsailorman]

I have always used Federal primer and I have not had a misfire or slam fire in 55 + years. A high primer can cause a slam fire regardless of the make of primers. Also, the Garand is designed not to slam fire and if it is in specification, it will not as the firing pin is held in place. Look at an American Gunsmithing video and it will explain this to you. I never use any powder except 4895 and never any bullets heavier than 168 grain.

[Bill*B]

Congratulations. I've always admired the Garand - stout as a fence post, immensely strong, and designed for the sole purpose of educating hostiles. Big and heavy, she is just about all that a vigorous man can handle. The classic reference (mainly historical) is Hatcher's "Book of the Garand", which Amazon has in both hardcover and Kindle editions. Enjoy the old sweetheart!

[Doog-Meister]

Use H4895 and CCI Mil-spec primers. 150 gr FMJ bullets.

Get a spare op rod spring and firing pin.

[slim1836]

I've got the following bullets on hand along with IMR 4895. Anyone have any experience with what I have on hand? Would a bit of Dacron be ov benefit or would that be bad for the buffering system?

Sorry for the sideways pic, too dumb to fix it.

Slim

[Hick]

My Hornady manual lists an IMR 4895 starting load of 39.6 gr with a max load of 47.1 gr specifically for an M1 Garand and the 168 grain AMAX, so what you have should be just fine.

[Ford SD]

I've got the following bullets on hand along with IMR 4895. Anyone have any experience with what I have on hand? Would a bit of Dacron be ov benefit or would that be bad for the buffering system?

Sorry for the sideways pic, too dumb to fix it.

Slim


I do not use Data I find on the internet so use your judgment on this

Data for 3006 using a hard Primer CCI

for Brass that weighs 191-194g ...... heaver or lighter brass you might have to tweek a bit

Load 5 of the 168 amax with 46.5g of Imr 4895 as a test ....length in a new Barrel oal 3.280 +- a hair

the Speer and the Hornady 165 have no idea on max length that will not stick a bullet in the barrel
you can use the same data .... just might have to tweak the length

the olgive for the amax is different than the fmj or sp ... load too long and you have to pull a round and you will pull out your hair trying to clean powder out of the action did it twice in one day ;(

if those 5 do not do a 100% function ... load at 47.1g Imr 4895 and try that.... or work up to 47.1g

[Ford SD]

No Dacron need for those loads

function will depend of the condition of the gas system ... is it worn ?

Lube and will it pass the tilt test ?

condition of the spring ?

M1 Garand recoil Spring Proper length is 19 3/4 to 20 1/4" when new. New Wolff springs will be longer ... do not cut


If you have a older spring .......... instead of a soft recoil you will get a harder recoil :( :( :(

[slim1836]

Thanks Hick, I saw that the 168 grain AMAX will work in the Hornadays 9th edition and the Lymans 49 edition. I'm hoping someone has pet loads for any of the bullets I had listed with IMR 4895. I do appreciate the reply, have learned a lot so far.

Was wondering if one style of bullet (boattail, Spitzer, etc) was preferred over the other. Lyman recommended Spitzer bullets with weights between 150-168. I received 11 clips of "AMA 80" headstamped cartridges with green primer sealant in cardboard sleeves when I acquired the weapon. Primers are not crimped. Any info is appreciated. I may pull one to check the weight after I shoot a few to see how they do.

Also curious if Dacron would be of benefit or if it may interfere with the gas system. I doubt it's needed but just asking.

I see myself ordering a few books in the near future. Previous posts on literature was helpful, thanks guys.

I'm not planning to try cast boolits for this weapon anytime soon if at all. I have a few weapons dedicated to jacketed only and vice versa.

Did I mention "I'm Stoked" to have this weapon?

Slim


Edit: AMA = Danish Government Arsenal (Ammunitionsarsenalet) Copenhagen, Denmark.

It's berdan primed and non-corrosive.

[dale2242]

I am at a point where I only shoot cast in my M1.
170 gr. +/- bullets with 32 gr 4064 or IMR 4895 and 1 gr Dacron will function 100% in my rifle.
Accuracy is as good a ball ammo.
My 11 YO grandson loves shooting this load.

[charlie b]

NO dacron with jacketed loads. I don't even use it in cast loads.

My Garand likes the AMax bullets. I use 4166 and velocity is 2750fps.

IIRC 4895 was one of the powders developed for the .30-06. It will work fine.

[derek45]

NRA Garand data, you might have to click to make it big enough to read

https://i.imgur.com/PXxLwZw.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/PXxLwZw.jpg

[GooseGestapo]

I did too, until I had my slam fire!

Luckily, the receiver wasn’t cracked, but the receiver is chipped at the outside lug mortise. Stock was split! I was using Federal brass, Federal 210M primers, and 46.5gr H4895 under a PPU M2 150gr FMJ. ALL primers were inspected to 0.003” MINIMUM recess.
I did find the case head lying on the bench. Flattened head, and separated clean from case body. Round was single fed from a SS-adapter allowing to feed by releasing bolt.

Only had to fit a new Boyd’s replacement stock and busted rear sight elevation knob. (Just put a new replica Lock bar sight assembly on it).

Once bit, twice shy!


I use Federal match primers in mine.

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk