N-27/2 with #358429s?

[madcaster]

Okay,I know that the bullet will not work in 357 brass seated full lenth,but have any of you crimped out on the nose section with any decent results/
Is Unique in a 38 Special at a charge level of a medium 357 velocity a good ideal?
I do NOT have any .38 Special revolvers,with NO plans to do so,and will not be sharing the loaded rounds with another,so that is not a concern in my situation.
What say ye?Should I back off the ideal and get some lighter bullets?Not what I want to do,but I want to be safe...
Thanks ya'll,
Jeff

[missionary5155]

Good morning In a straight wall case you can crimp anywhere there is a place to crimp. I used to shoot 180 gr GC in my Dan wesson 357 crimped in the grease groove to have MORE case capacity. I have roll Crimped over the front band and it makes no difference. It will hold a boolit in place so as not to creep out of the case. You could shorten the case and then you can use the regular crimp groove. This way you can maintain as much case capacity as possible.
BUT remember you just reduced your case capacity so REDUCE your load.

[AzShooter]

If you are not onto the ogive you should not have a problem. If the bullet is still too long get some .38 special brass and use the same bullet. You can easily find .38 special and .38 special +P load data.

I've been experimenting with a 180 grain bullet in my .357. I'm using light charge loads and .38 brass but keeping the same OAL as a .357.

[Catshooter]

With that boolit and my 27 I crimp about mid way into the front driving band. I use a Lee factory crimp die and the rounds haven't shifted under recoil. I love those Lee dies.


Cat

[StrawHat]

Another option for you is to just use 357 brass.

If you already reload, get a trimmer and trim down your 357 brass to whatever length is needed. Then keep that brass for your M27 and 358429 loads.

It is a little more foolproof than using 38 Special brass on hoping someone doesn't load it in a Model 10. Not perfectly foolproof as I have found that anytime one comes up with a "foolproof" idea, God will provide a better fool.

[Heavy lead]

If I had a Lee FCD, I would go with catshooters recommendation, I don't have one and do what straw hat suggests for my New Vaquero with the short cylinder. It works fine, I do have the FCD for other calibers and would recommend them. I like the 358429 and shoot it a lot.

[Ben]

The 429's little cousin the 477' seems to fit cylinder lengths in Smith & Wesson revolvers better in 357 mag. brass. I've always thought that the 358477 was a very versatile bullet.

Ben

[EDK]

Getting a 358156 or 357446 would be a better idea EXCEPT 358156 requires gas checks and the 357446 is discontinued. You can watch for 357446 on auctions and hope to find a clean 4 cavity....or get 358156 and have the gas check shank milled off....they're readily available.

I'm using 358665 for my VAQUEROS and 1894 Cowboy...need to dust off the 627s I bought during S&W's "gun of the week" period....It doesn't seem like 20 years!

I've got a similar problem with the RANCH DOG TLC 359 190...I'll load it to 38 +P+ in appropriately marked brass for use in the rifle.

My favorite step son and his 14 and 16 year olds came over to shoot yesterday. They hadn't paid much attention to reloading, but the cost of ammo is getting their attention. I GOT STICKER SHOCK looking at bullet prices in the MidwayUSA flyer when we were figuring out how much per round for 357 and 44 for their Marlin lever guns and Ruger Blackhawks.

There's been some discussion on loading data changes of late. My OLD LYMAN cast bullet books (from 60s/70s) quote some top loads of UNIQUE that are over 8 grains. I wouldn't go beyond +P levels IN THE APPROPRIATELY MARKED CASINGS for fear of somebody using it in the "wrong gun" and resulting problems. It just isn't worth the trouble for a small increase in performance.

The level of fools steadily increases...in both stupidity and numbers. If you watch the local news on TV, you can get depressed rather quickly. Going into some neighborhoods in the inner city anywhere can ruin your day even quicker.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[HeavyMetal]

Catshooter's suggestion of the Lee crimp die is a good one. However before you spend a dime you can crimp over the top of the front driving band. This will shorten the OAL of the round and allow use of the 358429 in pretty much any .357 cylinder.

The key thing here is to reduce your load and work back up to any Max load you may have been using before you seated the boolit deeper in the case!

Please be aware that crimping reduces the diameter of the case at the mouth and this will allow a shooter to "push" these round into a 38 special cylinder!

Strawhat said it best: there's always a better fool! So alway keep control of wildcat and "custom made" ammo for your personel guns.

[Snapping Twig]

My two boolits of choice are the 358156 & 358429.

With the 429, I crimp over the front band with full power W296 loads for my 627-0.

No excess pressure signs and the cases fall out when I tip up the barrel.

Gas checks for the 156 are optional in Special loads. Try it w/o and see. I shoot them over 5g W231 w/o checks and they're great. I even size them to .357 and still no lead.

I'm going to look into those other moulds you boys were talking about, looks good.

[Potsy]

In the 50th Anniversary Blackhawk I used to have, trimmed down .357's with 358429's shot well, but under top end loads (I think it was around 14 grains of 2400 for 1200 fps) I had to cast them hard (heat treated wheelweights) but it shot very well.

I thought about getting some Starline +P brass and loading to .38-44 levels, which would have been all the speed I needed (somewhere under 1200 fps with Unique or 2400) but didn't keep the gun long enough.

One thing I'd keep in mind, the .38 loads I did try were with Remington brass that had a cannelure, I was using 5 grains of Universal Clays and had "patterns" at 25 yards. On further reading, Brian Pearce said alot of .38 brass is thin and soft, you may get into bullet pull issues with slower powders especially if the case has a cannelure. When I chrony'ed the load, I don't remember the exact speeds but extreme spread was somewhere over 120 fps. His recommendation was Starline +P cases for +P or 38-44 loads. But like I said, I never had a chance to try it.

[eka]

You're gonna shoot your eye out kid. Jeff maybe you should just let me hang onto that thing for ya before you hurt yourself with it. I'll even do an old pal a favor and come up there and pick it up to save you all the trouble. :mrgreen:

The way old Elmer, Skeeter and those guys hot rodded specials trying to make them magnums, it would seem to me you could get away with some fairly warm loads in a magnum revolver using 38 Special brass. I'd tread slowly and lightly though.

I've got a pile of 38 Special brass if you need some. Just give me a yell when you down this way.

Keith

[fecmech]

When using the 358429 in my Ruger gp100 I load the oal at about .010 short of cylinder length and then do a light taper crimp on the front drive band of the boolit. Accuracy does not seem to suffer and boolits do not walk out of the case from recoil.

[AZ-Stew]

My experiences are similar to fecmech's. I've used the 358429 for over 30 years in M-28 and M-27 Smiths (same gun, different finish) and this was long before the Lee factory crimp die. I use Lyman carbide die sets and simply roll crimp the case into the side of the front driving band so that the boolit meplat is just short of the cylinder face. I've used this procedure with magnum and plinker rounds with equal success.

The problem with crimping over the front of the front driving band is that you bypass one of the significant features of the 358429 design. The front driving band, as in all Keith SWC style boolits, is designed to rest in the throat of the revolver chamber to aid in alignment of the boolit with the throat upon firing. If you seat the band inside the case, you don't get the benefit of this feature. Granted, seating part of the band inside the case reduces its effectiveness by a small amount, but it's better than nothing.

Regards,

Stew

[Patrick L]

We just had a Group Buy mold run that was a 358156 plainbase. It looks like this

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Bullets/GunStuff048.jpg
Sorry its a bit rounded; it was a cold cast done for the picture.

The honcho usually gets a few extra; you might want to see if any are available

[FN in MT]

I'd have to agree that the #357446 or it's gas checked brother the 156 would be THE way to go. I have probably cast more #358429's than any other slug. Shot them by the thousands way back when I carried a M-19/M-66 as a Duty gun.

But in mag cases for the shorter cyl M-27 & 28 I never liked crimping in OTHER than the crimp groove. So used the #358156 mould for those. Recently snagged a 2 cav #357446 from a forum member .....looking forward to some mag loads in my old 27's and 28's with that one.

FN in MT