Volcanic Cartridge

[ndnchf]

I was doing some reading about the Volcanic rifle the other day. I'm sure most of you know it was a predecessor to the Henry and later Winchester rifles. It used a hollow 41 cal bullet that contained 6.5gr of powder, closed in the back with a primitive centerfire primer. No cartridge case as we know it today.. A pretty anemic, yet revolutionary design.

It seemed pretty simple, so just for fun, I went to the lathe and made up a dummy round using a modified lyman 427098 bullet and a cut off and modified 32 H&R magnum case head. This is it, along with an original Volcanic cartridge.

[smithnframe]

Now if you only had a Volcanic firearm!

[missionary5155]

Good solution !!
Would the "Case Head" get left in the chamber area upon Firing ?

[ndnchf]

Good solution !!
Would the "Case Head" get left in the chamber area upon Firing ?

Good question. Of course, mine is just a dummy and I have no rifle to fire it in. But according to paragraph 4 of the patent : "... It also serves as a means for withdrawing the primer from the arm after it has been discharged" So, it sounds like after each shot, the primer debris must be removed by the shooter. Not very efficient, But not long after, B. Tyler Henry came along and developed it into the self contained copper case cartridge.

[ddixie884]

I think I had a misconception of this Ammo. I always thought it was a hollow ball as posted but with a cork washer filled with Fulminate of Mercury which, was priming compound. I always envisioned it much like a needle fire arrangement. If you are correct and I imagine you are. How did you get the washer out.

The Volcanic was a good lookin fire arm both the rifle and pistol I believe Bill Cody endorsed them........

I saw a bunch of them in the Winchester Collection at the Cody Museum, They are neat to look at, I would have loved to handle them......

[ndnchf]

I think I had a misconception of this Ammo. I always thought it was a hollow ball as posted but with a cork washer filled with Fulminate of Mercury which, was priming compound. I always envisioned it much like a needle fire arrangement. If you are correct and I imagine you are. How did you get the washer out.

The Volcanic was a good lookin fire arm both the rifle and pistol I believe Bill Cody endorsed them........

My understanding is that previous to Volvanic cartridge was he Hunt/Jennings "Rocket Ball". This was a hollow bullet with powder inside too. It had a cork or card at the rear with a small hole. There was a separate primer disc fed in above it. When struck by the hammer, the primer flash entered the hole and set off the cartridge.

The Volcanic cartridge incorporated the primer into the back of the ball as shown, a significant improvement. However, debris from the primer apparently did remain in the chamber. See my post #4 above.

[Mk42gunner]

As far as I know, which isn't very far, there was no provision for extracting an unfired round from the chamber of a Volcanic. The primer I think was either left in the bore or blown out by the next shot.

There is a video on youtube by Forgotten Weapons covering Volcanic ammunition.

Robert

[ascast]

I think the primer, being loose, just falls out the bore. With modern mold makers, it might not be too hard to make a "base plug" that also created a primer pocket with flash ports. That would allow positive primer seating and take the primer out with the bullet.

[john.k]

Good info comes from the testimony in the courtcase Henry brought against Winchester........I doubt the primer had any metal case,and was a ball of fulminate,as mentioned in a cork plug(or disc) that served to seal the escape of gas.....the bolt(called breech stopper) had two hooks to pull this plug out......Another assessment of the Volcanic without ballyhoo was the test by the British War Department,in which the gun shot quite accurately,but without the necessary power for any consideration as a military arm........Incidentally,in the Henry V Winchester trial ,a witness testified that the Volcanic was meant to fire a 50 rimfire round ,to the S&W patent,but the case would bulge and jam in the fixed extractor in the bolt face,and this failure led to S&W being asked to leave the company.

[edp2k]

With modern mold makers, it might not be too hard to make a "base plug" that also created a primer pocket with flash ports.

That was the gyrojet, a favorite of the Gipper :)
Accuracy really sucked. Microscopic differences in the ports caused the round to fly wild.

[ddixie884]

I'll say again they are cool guns. If you ever get a chance to see The Winchester Collection at the Cody Museum It is a good half a day of entertainment and learning.......

[green mountain boy]

and i doubt that half a day would do it....i have been 5-7 times through the years..it is STUNNING !

[ddixie884]

I was driving home from a construction job in 83 and saw the sign and stopped. It was around noon and I stayed til they threw me out. I thought about getting a room but I was on a time line for Thanksgiving at my mom's........

[John Taylor]

Several yeas back I got a chance to make several parts for a Volcanic.The toggle links are just like the Henry and Winchester , only much smaller. The breach bolt actually goes in the chamber a bit to seal it off. The bullet had everything it needed to shoot and nothing to eject. The end of the bolt looks like a small pyramid which acts as a firing pin. The carrier is about 5/8" long so the bullet can't be any longer. Energy was about 28 foot pounds, a little more than half a modern 22LR. The rifle may have been good for rabbits but if you shot a bear it would only make him mad.

[ndnchf]

Thanks John. You are one of very few who've had the opportunity to see I side one. Very interesting!

[bedbugbilly]

Very Interesting!

This is just "day dreaming' on my part, but . . . I'm a died in the wool real BP individual so have never used pyrodex or the "pellets". But I wonder that "if a person reproduced a Volcanic - and using a hollow base projectile - if the BP could be "molded" to the same shape as the hollow base - so that it was the consistency of the modern day "BP Pellet" that some use - and the mold for the propellent be made so that a primer could be inserted in the base of it - then the "cone" of propellent the uniforms to the hollow base could be inserted in the base of thebullet and affixed in place by some sort of adhesive.Or even held in place by a thin layer of beeswax that would also act as a lube?

One of you good machinists that has a collection of machine tools should maybe reproduce a Volcanic firearm? LOL

Thanks for the post and photos . . . like I said . . . it's very interesting!

[dtknowles]

What we have here is one of the original caseless breach loaders. The problem with caseless ammo is how to make a totally consumable primer and how to seal the breach. Both those obstacles have been overcome.

Tim

[john.k]

The ballistic performance of the Volcanic and also early rimfires was greatly increased by the large charge of fulminate in the round....this is why they worked OK with seemingly small powder charges.....fulminate had around 4 times the power of blackpowder.....Henry didnt invent the rimfire ,but he made numerous improvements ,including a method to reduce the fulminate charge,and keep it firing reliably.

[John Taylor]

Caseless ammo and rifle,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6gU1CHj9Xo