Questions

[blackthorn]

Advertisements for air rifles quote 950+ FPS for .22 caliber and 1300+ for .177's. So,:
1) At these velocities, how do each of them (.22/.177) compare to a rim-fire .22 with respect to "dangerous within" range?
2) How effective is each (.22/.177) in killing small game i.e. rabbits, grouse etc.?
3) What is the difference between feet per second and foot-pounds of energy?

The reason for these questions is that I am within city limits, and a 35 minute drive from the local range so, I am looking for an air rifle that I can use on small game and also shoot in my back yard without freaking out the neighbors.

[Winger Ed.]

[QUOTE=blackthorn;5161509]3) What is the difference between feet per second and foot-pounds of energy?


It's a mathmatical calculation that is sort of like the relationship between rpm, horsepower, and torque.

There is some formula to multiple or divide the speed and bullet weight to arrive at the energy number.

[JimB..]

Velocity x mass will give the comparison you seek.

A 22cal air rifle at 950fps will have no trouble taking a squirrel in an average back yard.

[Mal Paso]

Since the given fps of air guns is usually for a lighter than normal pellet:

A 14.3 grain pellet at 850 fps has about 23 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.

[poppy42]

blackthorn, Paul Harrel has a YouTube video out that compares 22lr, 22short, and pellet guns. IT should answer some of questions.

[jim147]

The small game here doesn't seem to know the difference between the marlin 22 or the beeman 22.

[john.k]

The lightweight pellets have poor ballistic performance,and cant go more than 300 yds or so......same as shotgun pellets.

[NyFirefighter357]

The small game here doesn't seem to know the difference between the marlin 22 or the beeman 22.

I've used a .177 Beeman imported Webley Omega for years 750-800 FPS It's 35yrs old so long before the super sonic stuff. It has done well on up to skunk sized animals. Beeman always said you loose accuracy once you break the sound barrier. I have shot several of the sound breaking pellet guns and they are as loud as a .22LR. My next venture is either .22 or .25 pellet rifle. The stated velocities are for very light pellets, stick to the med. to heavy pellets & they will be much quieter & do the job well. There is a break in period where the new rifles are loud but they quiet down

[Murphy]

Check your local laws before shooting within the city limits. I live in the county seat, population 7,000. I wanted some trigger time without having to load up and go out in the sticks to shoot. Noise was a concern as well. I decided to pop into the local police department and ask a longtime officer a quick question.

Hey ole' friend, is it legal to shoot a BB/Pellet gun within the city limits?
Ole' friend: Nope. City ordinance won't allow anything that is fired by use of a trigger to be fired within the city limits.
Me: Well, sounds about right for this bunch running city hall.
Ole' friend: Yep, sucks.

Just a head's up.


Murphy

[Wayne Smith]

Virginia Beach had an ordinance that prohibited anything that used explosive force from use within the city limits. A kid was arrested for using an air rifle - took it to the State Supreme Court and he won. They changed the writing of the law to include air powered guns.

[GhostHawk]

Air rifle pellets tend to be lighter than .22lr bullets. And in most cases are slower.
If they hit something, almost anything, you can be pretty much assured they won't go more than 50-100 yards past that.

As to caliber, .177 for feathers, .22 for fur. The .177 may be faster but with a pellet weighing half or less it simply best suited for thin skinned birds.

.22 with even reasonable speed will work much better at anchoring squirrels and rabbits.

I grew up with a Sheridan Blue Streak which is .20 or 5mm. It had zero problems headshooting a cottontail in mom's flower garden. But it was whistling death on Grackles perched on power line some 30 yards away. Max speed with 8 pumps is in the 650 fps range, but it was seldom I pumped more than 3. I had very very few birds ever fly away with a pellet through them.
Most were head shots and DRT.

Even bigger bodied pigeon's dropped like fly's to a good shot.

You do have to take your speed numbers put out by makers with a grain of salt. Normally they get those shooting light lead free pellets. And they don't have as much impact because of the light weight and speed loss over distance.

My Hatsan 135 QE Vortex came with 5 shots chrono'd. All in the low 1100 range. And shot with 10 gr pellets.

I shoot 14.3 crossman Premer Hollow point and I'm Wild guessing but I suspect they are still in the 930 fps area.
They hit with authority. They will take a steel flipper target and ram it around hard.

The .177 in the same ammo is 7.9 grains or just under half the weight.

As for energy.
I input the specs for my .22 air rifle, 14.3 weight, 930 fps and got 27 foot points.
The .177 on the otherhand 7.9 and 1100 fps and you get 21 foot points.

They figure 6 to 8 foot pounds required for a clean kill of a rabbit. so In theory either would work. But IMO the .22 works much better.

The .20 cal 5mm Blue streak pellets weigh the same as the .22 cal. But with their slower speed they come out right in the 6-8 foot points range.

If I was hunting furred critters I would stick with the .22.
If your focus is on birds the .177 would do fine.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Advertisements for air rifles quote 950+ FPS for .22 caliber and 1300+ for .177's. So,:
1) At these velocities, how do each of them (.22/.177) compare to a rim-fire .22 with respect to "dangerous within" range?
2) How effective is each (.22/.177) in killing small game i.e. rabbits, grouse etc.?
3) What is the difference between feet per second and foot-pounds of energy?

The reason for these questions is that I am within city limits, and a 35 minute drive from the local range so, I am looking for an air rifle that I can use on small game and also shoot in my back yard without freaking out the neighbors.
I have a RWS-54 in 22 cal. It shoots a 14 or 15 gr pellet about 900fps. The open part of my yard is 75 feet (25 yards) and can print dime sized 5 shot targets. Squirrels killin' ...I've found that a head shot with a 22 pellet, at that distance, may not enter the skull, but will bust the bone enough to drop him out of the tree and cause enough trauma to kill him most of the time, otherwise I run over to the critter and shear his head off with a sharp shovel, if he is spazzing out after the fall.



Check your local laws before shooting within the city limits. I live in the county seat, population 7,000. I wanted some trigger time without having to load up and go out in the sticks to shoot. Noise was a concern as well. I decided to pop into the local police department and ask a longtime officer a quick question.

Hey ole' friend, is it legal to shoot a BB/Pellet gun within the city limits?
Ole' friend: Nope. City ordinance won't allow anything that is fired by use of a trigger to be fired within the city limits.
Me: Well, sounds about right for this bunch running city hall.
Ole' friend: Yep, sucks.

Just a head's up.


Murphy
Glencoe (pop. 5K) has an ordinance (patterned after many other Town's ordinances) restricting the use of "dangerous instruments" within city limits.
BTW, my RWS-54 sounds the same as a Air powered Nail gun, so if there is enough noise in the neighborhood, that noise goes unnoticed, but staging with a air rifle is still best done covertly.

[bedbugbilly]

Interesting post! I have thought about a pellet rifle for a while and this has been very informative - thanks to all for the information and the Old for asking the questions.

[.429&H110]

An antique Crossman .177 blowing wadcutters will quietly kill big grey rats at 30 feet.
Will knock a red squirrel out of a tree.
Product placement is important: minute of rat, right in the ear.
And yes, BB guns are illegal most places, certainly looks like a scary gun.

[blackthorn]

Thanks to all who replied. I watched Paul Harrel's "U-tube" video and it did answer some questions. Local gun store has .177's but no .22 at the moment. May have to settle for one of those. Likely good enough for targets and also Grouse (head shots).

[Jim22]

My advice FWIW is to mount a scope on it. I used a cheap ten dollar .22 scope. My .177 pump-up daisy will put all shots into a dime at 30 feet. Old eyes and all.

[.429&H110]

There is an airgun section in this forum that will tell you more than you can read in a day. I have rebuilt the old Crossman pumper lately so it will feed BBs again, the grandkids are old enough to be curious about such things. My last house had a 90' run from the front bedroom down the hall across the living room. Air rifles are fine indoors, but mind the windows. A phone book will stop a .177 easily. The 44 indoors was frowned upon. Hey, it's a long winter in AK.

[Burnt Fingers]

My advice FWIW is to mount a scope on it. I used a cheap ten dollar .22 scope. My .177 pump-up daisy will put all shots into a dime at 30 feet. Old eyes and all.

A cheap scope on a spring piston air gun will last maybe five shots.

[.429&H110]

The Norway rats just sit up pretty and look at the light. The kangaroo rats are fast, I don't think I could keep a scope on them. I can usually see a .177 wadcutter in flight backlit, a kangaroo rat saw it too, and I saw him duck. The pellet went right over his head between his ears, then the rat was gone, presto. There aren't now as many as there were. When I bought this house it was a furry shooting gallery running along the walls. This neighborhood has a lot of citrus and nobody picks the grapefruit oranges lemons limes tangelos and olives so the rats move in. That Crossman hits where I put the sights. Elderly fun.

[gwpercle]

My Daddy took more squirrels out of his back yard pecan tree with a Daisy BB gun than he ever did hunting with dogs and shotgun . It was just the ordinary "you gonna put your eye out with that" BB gun ... either air rifle should do just fine for BYH (back yard hunting)
Lots of fun with the BB gun and tin cans in the back yard range ... just about anything will serve as a backstop .
Don't let any Friends of Animals see you "taking" game ...city folks don't know where meat comes from and they get all hot and bothered about it ... just saying !
Gary

[blackthorn]

We are almost out of city limits. Many of my neighbors have chickens or other live stock. The ones really close know I sometimes fire-form cases and we have discussed problems with roaming coyotes. I have their permission to shoot any and all coyotes if I can get a clear/safe shot. I am not worried about complaints from nearby folk, rather I worry about the Bylaw Nazis.

[.429&H110]

AZ rats are considered "any mammal." Mice too?
So I must be discreet.
Rats carry hantavirus, ticks, fleas.
NIMBY.
One big grey woulda made a fine European mount.
I haven't seen a rat that big since Boston.
My wristrocket is also illegal in NJ,MA,NY,CT,RI
I am almost accurate enough with it to nail packrats.
Practice practice...