Small-frame snubby recommendations

[Jtarm]

I’m thinking it’s about time to augment my 3” medium-frame carry guns with a true small-frame 2” snub that can be carried in a pocket holster (or AIWB, as I currently carry my medium frame guns.)

My only parameters are: .
38 special (.357 is fine, but it would see few, if any magnums)
Highly-visible front sight, or one that I can replace myself (this disqualifies most Smith J-frames with their integral FS.)
A smooth DA pull can be achieved without any reduced-power springs.

[Targa]

I had a S&W 642, hated that gun and couldn’t sell it fast enough. If I were to do it again I would be looking really hard at a Ruger LCR in .327 mag.
I think you will be hard pressed to find one of these pocket revolvers with a nice trigger, I know you said you don’t want to mess with it but an Apex spring kit is effective and easy to install.

[onelight]

I have both a Smith 649 and Ruger LCR prefer the Ruger .

[2A-Jay]

I have a Charter Arms Under Cover .38 that works for me.

[Kraschenbirn]

Kimber DCR...pricy but appears to meet your parameters. Haven't actually fired one but the one I handled at the LGS felt pretty good in my hand with an out-of-the-box DAO trigger as smooth as any snubby I've ever owned.

Bill

[Jtarm]

Kimber DCR...pricy but appears to meet your parameters. Haven't actually fired one but the one I handled at the LGS felt pretty good in my hand with an out-of-the-box DAO trigger as smooth as any snubby I've ever owned.

Bill

That looks heavy for pocket carry.

Maybe I should add under 20-oz to the criteria.

[engineer401]

I once painted the front sight of a SP101 I used to own. It made a big difference. The paint was made by Birchwood Casey. It was durable.

[Outpost75]

To meet your 20-oz. criteria in a more "shootable" platform than an S&W J-frame, consider an S&W Airweight Model 12 round butt. Not +P capable if you want the gun to last, but effective with full-charge wadcutters or Speer 135-grain Gold Dot with standard-pressure load of 4.2-4.4 grains of Alliant Bullseye.

And it's a six-shooter, not a 5-shooter.

It also uses the same HKS 10A speed loader as the steel K-frame Model 10, alloy framed Colt Cobra (another one not over 20 ozs.), and steel D-frame Police Positive and Detective Special.


280872280873

I carry mine in a Mika pocket holster.

[david s]

S&W made a 3 inch model 60 that had adjustable sights. The front sight was pinned on so swappable. Sort of uncommon but an option any way. My three are a S&W 642 a S&W 65 3" (both fixed fronts) and a S&W 696. Personally I don't mind the 642. I was pleasantly surprised by how accurate it is.

[recumbent]

I have 3 LCR's a 357 mag, a 22LR and a 327 Fed Mag. They are great. I carry the 327 the most.

[Fishman]

A good, light option is the Taurus ultra-light titanium 38 special. Unloaded it is 13.5 oz as I recall and it has a bobbed hammer. I have carried it a lot in a Mika holster (see Outpost's picture above) and it carries great in a pocket. It is also very shootable. These days it gets swapped out for a Springfield XDS subcompact quite often which also rides well in that Mika pocket holster.

The 3" model 60 does shoot lights out for me, but it isn't suitable for me carrying in a pocket due to the extra length and the unbobbed hammer. With a holster it would be a great option.

[rintinglen]

280876
The only gun that checks all your boxes that I am aware of, is the S&W 342. Lite weight, no hammer spur, replaceable front sight, good trigger, and +p rated. The only real draw back is that it is a bear to shoot. A 12 ounce pistol rears up a mite when loaded with a +p round.

It is the pink handled snubby on the lower left. Personally, I usually carry a D- frame Colt, which is more to my taste and holds one more round. I don't care about the front site's lack of inter-changeability. (But if I ever find one at a price I can afford, I'd steal a page from Outpost and go with the Model 12, though in an IWB holster, my pockets aren't that big;).)
Below find a pic of my Colt Agent, which does ride in a pocket on occasion.

[Jtarm]

To meet your 20-oz. criteria in a more "shootable" platform than an S&W J-frame, consider an S&W Airweight Model 12 round butt. Not +P capable if you want the gun to last, but effective with full-charge wadcutters or Speer 135-grain Gold Dot with standard-pressure load of 4.2-4.4 grains of Alliant Bullseye.

And it's a six-shooter, not a 5-shooter.

It also uses the same HKS 10A speed loader as the steel K-frame Model 10, alloy framed Colt Cobra (another one not over 20 ozs.), and steel D-frame Police Positive and Detective Special.


280872280873

I carry mine in a Mika pocket holster.

Wow, does that fit in a jeans pocket?

That would also fit all of my other K-frame gear.

My carry load is full charge WCs with a speed strip of RTP38S12 as a reload.

[Petrol & Powder]

Jtram, your criteria almost paints you into a corner.

* a true small-frame 2” snub that can be carried in a pocket holster (or AIWB, as I currently carry my medium frame guns.)
* 38 special (.357 is fine, but it would see few, if any magnums)
* Highly-visible front sight, or one that I can replace myself (this disqualifies most Smith J-frames with their integral FS.)
* A smooth DA pull can be achieved without any reduced-power springs.

I have dedicated myself to the subnose platform. I will NOT carry a snubnose that has a hammer spur. So that means DAO internal hammer OR bobbed hammer.
Pocket carry with a steel frame revolver is possible but a lightweight alloy frame makes it a lot more pleasant.
The 38 Special requirement is no problem; plenty of options there.
I recommend you re-think your front sight criteria. A ramped, integral front sight is far less likely to snag on something when drawn from a pocket or concealment.
A smooth DA pull is far more important than a light DA pull. A smooth pull is readily obtainable without sacrificing reliability or reducing spring weights.

Outpost75 has suggested a 2" S&W Model 12. I have a couple of those and they are excellent guns. However, as much as I respect Outpost75, I have to say that a 2" K-frame with a bobbed hammer is right on the ragged edge of what I consider to be suitable as a "pocket" gun. It can be done but it may require some modification of your wardrobe selection. A lot depends on what clothing you normally wear.

In the world of snubnose DA revolvers chambered in 38 Special, there is a very clear progression of size and weight.
Starting with the smallest/lightest: - we have the lightweight DAO S&W J-frames.

The next step up are the old Colt Agent and Colt Cobra. followed by their steel framed Detective Special models.

Almost in the same category we have the steel framed Ruger SP101

And at the top of the size/weight ladder we have the alloy framed S&W Model 12 followed by the steel frame models 10 and 64 (blued and stainless, respectively)

There are some additional choices mixed in, such as the new Kimber's and Colts but just about everything will fall somewhere between the J-frame Smiths and the 2" K-frame Smiths. And we have the newer Ruger LCR somewhere in that line up. (probably close the the DAO J-frame)

The old 2" Colt D-frames are slightly smaller than their 2" S&W K-frame counterparts but those guns are almost completely in collectors status these days.

The Ruger SP101 is smaller overall than a 2" S&W K-frame but the Ruger is really heavy for its size. (carried in an OWB holster it is an excellent fighting tool. Strong, durable, reliable)

Once you step up to holster carry (as opposed to pocket carry) you might as well step up to a K-frame. I would also shun an IWB holster with a snubnose revolver. There's no concealment advantage with those short barreled revolvers and an IWB holster is very uncomfortable with a 2" revolver. If you can conceal a 2" IWB rig, you can conceal a 2" OWB rig and with the OWB holster gain more comfort and a faster draw.

For me - The difference in capacity between a 5 shot and a 6 shot revolver is a total non-issue.

I think your FIRST decision needs to be: Pocket carry or OWB carry.

[megasupermagnum]

The Ruger LCR is fantastic for this purpose. I only wish they made one with a low profile Novak rear sight. As it is, the 38 special version is the lightest version. The double action only trigger is fantastic, best out of the box trigger I've found in a pocket gun. Will handle +P ammo. Fits in the pocket fine. The available grips work well. It is only 13 1/2 ounces. The front sight is highly visible, and can easily be replaced.

[Petrol & Powder]

Wow, does that fit in a jeans pocket?

That would also fit all of my other K-frame gear.

My carry load is full charge WCs with a speed strip of RTP38S12 as a reload.

"Wow, does that fit in a jeans pocket?"
Depends on how big your pockets are and what you consider "Fit" to mean.

[Outpost75]

Wow, does that fit in a jeans pocket?

That would also fit all of my other K-frame gear.

My carry load is full charge WCs with a speed strip of RTP38S12 as a reload.

Not in a snug fitting jeans pocket, but great in the hand warmer pocket of a Carhart barn coat, Duluth Trading firehose work pants or Middle Management chinos, full cut business casual or police uniform trousers, modern military BDUs or straight-leg old school USN dungarees.

[Petrol & Powder]

The S&W model 12 is an aluminum framed, K-frame. It is essentially a lightweight Model 10.

The last of the model 12 series was the 12-4 and they were discontinued in the 1980's. Up to and including the 12-3 models, the Model 12 had a grip frame that was thinner than the standard K-frame models. So keep that in mind if you want something other than the factory grips. The Tyler T-grip adaptor that Outpost has on his Model 12 is a good option with the factory grip panels.

[NEKVT]

Ruger LCR 357. Even if only putting 38's through it. It is basically the same size as the LCR 38 but has 3.5 oz more weight due to the stronger SS frame and that extra weight reduces recoil enough to make it a bit more comfortable to shoot.

[Bigslug]

Smith 640-1 Pro Series .357, part number 178044

The steel frame soaks up more recoil than the beer-can models.

Comes with 3-dot night sights.

Can be run with or without moon clips.

Last I checked, was being made without the idiot lock (which contributed to my buying one)

Nothing wrong with the OEM DAO trigger.

[nvbirdman]

J-frame Smith with a Crimson Trace laser sight. Don't worry about how visible your front sight is.

[Jtarm]

Jtram, your criteria almost paints you into a corner.

* a true small-frame 2” snub that can be carried in a pocket holster (or AIWB, as I currently carry my medium frame guns.)
* 38 special (.357 is fine, but it would see few, if any magnums)
* Highly-visible front sight, or one that I can replace myself (this disqualifies most Smith J-frames with their integral FS.)
* A smooth DA pull can be achieved without any reduced-power springs.

I have dedicated myself to the subnose platform. I will NOT carry a snubnose that has a hammer spur. So that means DAO internal hammer OR bobbed hammer.
Pocket carry with a steel frame revolver is possible but a lightweight alloy frame makes it a lot more pleasant.
The 38 Special requirement is no problem; plenty of options there.
I recommend you re-think your front sight criteria. A ramped, integral front sight is far less likely to snag on something when drawn from a pocket or concealment.
A smooth DA pull is far more important than a light DA pull. A smooth pull is readily obtainable without sacrificing reliability or reducing spring weights.

Outpost75 has suggested a 2" S&W Model 12. I have a couple of those and they are excellent guns. However, as much as I respect Outpost75, I have to say that a 2" K-frame with a bobbed hammer is right on the ragged edge of what I consider to be suitable as a "pocket" gun. It can be done but it may require some modification of your wardrobe selection. A lot depends on what clothing you normally wear.

In the world of snubnose DA revolvers chambered in 38 Special, there is a very clear progression of size and weight.
Starting with the smallest/lightest: - we have the lightweight DAO S&W J-frames.

The next step up are the old Colt Agent and Colt Cobra. followed by their steel framed Detective Special models.

Almost in the same category we have the steel framed Ruger SP101

And at the top of the size/weight ladder we have the alloy framed S&W Model 12 followed by the steel frame models 10 and 64 (blued and stainless, respectively)

There are some additional choices mixed in, such as the new Kimber's and Colts but just about everything will fall somewhere between the J-frame Smiths and the 2" K-frame Smiths. And we have the newer Ruger LCR somewhere in that line up. (probably close the the DAO J-frame)

The old 2" Colt D-frames are slightly smaller than their 2" S&W K-frame counterparts but those guns are almost completely in collectors status these days.

The Ruger SP101 is smaller overall than a 2" S&W K-frame but the Ruger is really heavy for its size. (carried in an OWB holster it is an excellent fighting tool. Strong, durable, reliable)

Once you step up to holster carry (as opposed to pocket carry) you might as well step up to a K-frame. I would also shun an IWB holster with a snubnose revolver. There's no concealment advantage with those short barreled revolvers and an IWB holster is very uncomfortable with a 2" revolver. If you can conceal a 2" IWB rig, you can conceal a 2" OWB rig and with the OWB holster gain more comfort and a faster draw.

For me - The difference in capacity between a 5 shot and a 6 shot revolver is a total non-issue.

I think your FIRST decision needs to be: Pocket carry or OWB carry.

I already carry a 3” M-64, AIWB. I own 2, plus a 3” M-65.

For belt-carry, one of them will get the nod.

These guns all have brightly-painted ramps and while that works, I’d like something a bit more narrow that doesn’t completely fill the notch and faster to pick up with my 61-yo eyes, and that can be installed without milling a new dovetail.

Even with a 2” barrel, IWB has a distinct advantage: it hides easily under the tail of a T-shirt. In my part of Texas, there’s not a lot of days where a cover-garment is desirable. As long as the entire grip is positioned above the waistband, I fail to see how OWB would be any faster, and seriously doubt it would conceal as well.

I’m interested in a smaller framed 2” gun primarily for pocket-carry, maybe even as a “New York reload” when traveling.

[Scrounge]

I have a Charter Arms Under Cover .38 that works for me.

Alloy or steel frame? Got one of the alloy frames for SWMBO, and it's a fistful even with light .38 special loads. Well, maybe not light, but not very heavy, either. Perfectly mild and controllable in a Security Six & Smith Model 66-1. Not so mild or controllable in the CA.

[Gray Fox]

I second the 640-1 Pro Series, mine carries Crimson Trace grips because by the time I could actually see the three dot night sights it would be too late for me. The adjustable sights work just fine in daylight. Even with it being all steel it is still a bugger with .357 loads in it. I usually carry Rem 110 grain banana jacket +P HPs in the moon clips. GF

[winelover]

My first snubby was S&W SS model 60...... disadvantages are heavy trigger, terrible sights, too much weight, exposed hammer. Purchased a 642 and solved the weight and exposed hammer criteria. Then I ran across a Talo version of the 642 and purchased it because it had a much better trigger..............still stuck with those minuscule sights.

Enter the Ruger 357 LCR. An ugly duckling that really is a swan. Better trigger, out of the box, than the Talo 642. Sights that you can actually use. Weighs just under 20 ounces and doesn't have a exposed hammer that is pretty much useless on a carry piece. Versatile in that it can shoot 38's and 357 magnums. Fit's in all my j-frame holsters. The only thing better would be one in 44 Special.

280906

BTW, all my current carry pieces wear CT laser grips or a Laserguard.

Fulfilled the 44 Special when I purchased a Fit for Duty CA Bulldog.

280908

Decent sights, better out of box trigger than a S&W snubby. Weighs around 20 ounces. Only take away is the rough finish.

Winelover

[Petrol & Powder]

To address this, ".....Even with a 2” barrel, IWB has a distinct advantage: it hides easily under the tail of a T-shirt. In my part of Texas, there’s not a lot of days where a cover-garment is desirable. As long as the entire grip is positioned above the waistband, I fail to see how OWB would be any faster, and seriously doubt it would conceal as well....."

With both the Inside the Waist Band [IWB] and Outside the Waist Band [IWB] you need a covering garment. With an IWB holster and a snubnose, there isn't enough barrel to allow for a high ride holster and the cylinder ends up positioned directly under the belt. This is usually uncomfortable. With an OWB holster and a snubnose, a little of the holster will extend below the belt but it's minimal and no more difficult to conceal than a similar IWB holster with the same gun.
As for access, it's a little easier to establish a grip on the gun with an OWB holster, IME.

Everyone is different and holsters are a personal thing.

[white cloud]

This is an interesting thread. I like snubnoses quite a bit and own eight but have never found the perfect revolver. I like to switch between AIWB and pocket carry depending on the temperature and wardrobe. I prefer steel frames but the "no dash" S&Ws have pretty bad sights and the SP101 and "magnum" J frames are too heavy for pocket carry. I have a 640 Pro and think it's a great revolver but it is again too heavy for pocket carry. I have tried laser grips but did not care for them. What I should do is to take one of my 649 "no dash" guns to a smith and have it milled for better sight.

[Petrol & Powder]

white cloud, I've been around the small DA revolvers for a long time. The issues and concerns you describe are pretty much the central theme in that arena.
Size, weight, sights, finish and carry methods.
There is nothing new under the sun and everyone that really trains with a snubnose revolver deals with those issues.

For pocket carry, size and weight are big concerns. At first glance one wouldn't think weight was such an important consideration for pocket carry. But until you actually carry the gun all day, every day; you really cannot judge that.
I think the SP101 is a great gun, but it's just not quite a pocket gun.
The "magnum" J-frames and also good guns but just a little too heavy for my liking.

Interesting note for those new to the game, The original no dash S&W 640 (stainless DAO J-frame in 38 Special) had a 1 7/8" barrel. The later models had the 2 1/8" barrel. You wouldn't suspect that extra 1/4" of steel makes much difference, but it does.

The best snubnose 38 Special I ever shot was an original S&W flat latch model 40. It was a friend's gun and I tried to buy it on the spot - no go. He turned down a large cash offer.

[Jtarm]

The "magnum" J-frames and also good guns but just a little too heavy for me.

There is the 340 PD, but it’s pricey, I’ve seen reports of Sc frames cracking at the barrel threads, and I have no desire to shoot .357s from a 12-oz revolver to begin with.

[Petrol & Powder]

The S&W 340 PD is pricey. It also falls into the category of the SUPER lightweight J-frames. The titanium cylinder gets the weight way down but I'm not convinced the weight savings is worth the monetary cost.
The scandium aluminum alloy used in the frame is reported to be stronger than the regular aluminum alloys used for frames (and the amount of scandium added is actually very small, just enough to increase the strength of the material). I don't know if they are prone to cracking any more than the traditional aluminum alloys used for lightweight frames. Sometimes when people want to justify why they purchased a less expensive version of something, they will bash the more expensive version. So I'm a bit skeptical of reports without some background and numbers to compare.
As for shooting .357 magnum loads in a super lightweight revolver, there's no doubt that's unpleasant. Of course there's no requirement that you shoot magnum loads in a magnum revolver. So the user has control over that.
The 340 PD does give you the option of some better sights, but for the price, again; it may not be worth the cost.

There are three weight classes for the DAO J-frames: Steel, airweight and Liteweight (or super light)
The airweight models have aluminum alloy frames with steel cylinders and barrels.
The super lightweight models have scandium/aluminum alloy frames, titanium cylinders and two piece barrels with a stainless barrel shrouded by an aluminum alloy barrel shroud.

Personally, I think the airweight's (the middle choice in weight) are light enough and the super lightweight models may be a bit too much of a good thing.

YMMV

[Jtarm]

I don't know if they are prone to cracking any more than the traditional aluminum alloys used for lightweight frames. Sometimes when people want to justify why they purchased a less expensive version of something, they will bash the more expensive version.
YMMV


https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?395178-S-amp-W-Scandium-340PD-FAILURE&p=4816574#post4816574

[BK7saum]

I have a 340PD. it is a hand full with full power 357s. I shot 2 rounds of 158 grain 357 mags just to see how they were. Now I just carry speer gold dot +p 125 grain. The 340PD sure is light to carry though. I carry in the pocket all summer.

[Daekar]

Take a look at the S&W Model 60. 357 mag chambers, 3" barrel, easily carried AIWB, and has adjustable sights including a replaceable front sight. In fact, I just replaced my front sight with a HiViz red fiber optic yesterday. There is also a 2" version listed on the S&W website.

If you get the Performance Center version (I didn't) it comes with the sights already mounted.

[Jtarm]

Tp address this, ".....Even with a 2” barrel, IWB has a distinct advantage: it hides easily under the tail of a T-shirt. In my part of Texas, there’s not a lot of days where a cover-garment is desirable. As long as the entire grip is positioned above the waistband, I fail to see how OWB would be any faster, and seriously doubt it would conceal as well....."

With both the Inside the Waist Band [IWB] and Outside the Waist Band [IWB] you need a covering garment. With an IWB holster and a snubnose, there isn't enough barrel to allow for a high ride holster and the cylinder ends up positioned directly under the belt. This is usually uncomfortable. With an OWB holster and a snubnose, a little of the holster will extend below the belt but it's minimal and no more difficult to conceal than a similar IWB holster with the same gun.
As for access, it's a little easier to establish a grip on the gun with an OWB holster, IME.

Everyone is different and holsters are a personal thing.

Well I’m not speaking for “everyone”, but when I attended the HiTs Tactical Revolver Roundup in 2018 (a 2-day snub class), roughly 40 students + 4 instructors, the overwhelming majority were packing 2” guns AIWB, with a few pocket holsters. Some people trained with both.

One former Gunsite (or it may have been Thunder Ranch) instructor carried 2 2” J-frames AIWB, one on each side. This was his EDC rig.

Besides myself, I observed 1 3” K-frame. That was being carried openly at 3:00 by an instructor.

Given the same holster, the cylinder is going to be in the same place regardless of barrel length.

While both modes require a cover garment, IWB generally needs less. It holds the butt closer to the body and hides the lines better.

If there’s an OWB holster I could conceal under an everyday T-shirt, I haven’t seen it.

[Petrol & Powder]

Like I said earlier, holsters are a personal thing. What works for me may not work for you and what works for you may not work for me.

As for, "Given the same holster, the cylinder is going to be in the same place regardless of barrel length." - That's only true IF it's the same type of holster. How the holster rides in relation to the belt is determined by the location of the belt loops in relation to the rest of the holster. Some holsters are high ride, some low ride and some are in the middle. Not all holsters are the same.
For a really short gun (like say a snubnose) there just aren't a lot of options on where the belt loops will end up. With a subnose, the cylinder will generally end up directly over the belt (OWB) or directly under the belt (IWB). There just isn't enough material to move the gun up or down in relation to the belt. With a longer gun the holster maker has more options.

I'll grant you that with an IWB holster the amount of fabric needed to cover the butt of the gun is slightly less than what is needed to cover a OWB holster worn outside the pants but with a snubnose we're only talking a couple of inches of drape. Any shirt that can adequately conceal an IWB holster can probably conceal an OWB, if we're talking about a 2" revolver that doesn't extend far below the beltline anyway.

As for holding the butt in close to the body, yes, that prints less but it's also far less comfortable.
I can tolerate an IWB holster with a pistol, but with a revolver; an IWB holster and a short gun it's just not for me.

YMMV

[megasupermagnum]

If a shirt doesn't cover a sub 2" barrel revolver, you are wearing the wrong size shirt. With my AE Nelson holster, most of my T shirts will fully conceal my 4" barrel S&W model 57, and my shirts are in no way baggy or long. The bulge from such a large revolver is another story, but the full barrel can be covered by a shirt.

[ddixie884]

I was always a S&W J-frame fan. A few years ago I decided to buy a coupla truck console guns and GB was full of LCRs. I low-ball bid about 10 of them hoping to get 1 and won 4 of them. I gave 1 to my local pusher who did all my transfers. I put them in all the trucks and began to plink and practice with them. I have done no mods and over time I have overcome my revulsion to the ugly little things and have come to really like them. The grips are surprisingly compact yet comfortable and I have fired some very heavy handloads without discomfort. I am surprised to say as a former name brand snubby snob, I love the LCR.............

[Outpost75]

Great thread and comments. Absolutely necessary to "dress to the gun."

And while I agree with Petrol and Powder there is no serious tactical issue in choosing between a 5-shot or a 6-shot revolver, I have never shot a J-frame well and do much better with a K-frame or Colt D-frame. Dehorning the hammer spur is an advantage for concealed carry, but it is often difficult to maintain 0.011" minimum striker indent (ON COPPER) with the lighter hammer, particularly if the hammer arc has been reduced in converting the gun to DAO. My pocket holsters have a tab which extends behind the hammer to mitigate against it catching on the pocket, and I learned years ago to find the hammer spur with my thumb when withdrawing the gun. Old school, we weren't allowed "gunfighter" mods.

[Petrol & Powder]

megasupermagnum wrote: "If a shirt doesn't cover a sub 2" barrel revolver, you are wearing the wrong size shirt..."

Agreed

There are a LOT of factors at play when we start talking holsters.
Low ride, mid ride, high ride. IWB, OWB. How much cant negative or positive?

Here's a Blackhawk Combat Askins holster with a J-frame.
280941

Only about 2" of the holster extends below the belt:
280942

Notice the cylinder is positioned directly over the belt. If this was an IWB design, the cylinder would fall directly under the belt.
With a 2" barreled revolver, the holster maker just doesn't have the option of making the holster a high ride design. There just isn't enough leather available to allow the belt loops to be positioned much lower on the holster. But with a longer barrel, a high ride design becomes possible and more of the gun can be positioned above the belt.

When it comes to holsters and people, there is no universal holster. You have to find what works for you.

[Petrol & Powder]

Outpost, I too find the K-frames and Colt D-frames much easier to work with but in the end, I sometimes have to compromise with the smaller J-frame for other reasons.
The reality is the K-frame just gives you more gun to hang onto and therefore it's easier to do good work with the K-frame.

I have 100% reliability with bobbed hammers and I wouldn't tolerate anything less for a gun carried for self-defense.

[Petrol & Powder]

ddixie884, I don't own a Ruger LCR but I've shot them. I agree they have a lot going for them.
In fact, the LCR may check quite a few of the boxes on the OP's list.
The LCR is suitable for pocket carry, is chambered in the appropriate cartridge, has decent sights and a good DA trigger.

[rfd]

P&P has the good scoop in his posts.

As to .38spl or .357mag, it's .38 for me and no .357 wanted or needed. That's a lotta horsepower to hold with such a lightweight handgun. For the most part, I address the snubby as an easy concealed carry, up close and personal defensive weapon that's mostly point 'n' shoot. I painted the front sight day-glow orange and that was good enuf for inside of 10-15 yards for all rounds into body mass. It MUST be hammerless, too, preferably a concealed hammer, too - even if you think you'll never pocket the gun, because eventually you'll realize its forte and it'll get pocketed sooner than later.

I like the S&W 642c I had ...

280944

[Petrol & Powder]

Here's a demonstration on how a high ride holster can aid in concealment.

Same belt, but with a high ride OWB holster (probably an old G&G ?) and a 3" K-frame.
280945
Despite the significantly larger gun, even less of the holster extends beyond the lower edge of the belt. Because there's more leather to work with, the holster maker could position the belt loops lower and therefore position more of the gun above the belt. Notice the relationship of the cylinder to the belt.
280946

[Outpost75]

Outpost, I too find the K-frames and Colt D-frames much easier to work with but in the end, I sometimes have to compromise with the smaller J-frame for other reasons.
The reality is the K-frame just gives you more gun to hang onto and therefore it's easier to do good work with the K-frame.

I have 100% reliability with bobbed hammers and I wouldn't tolerate anything less for a gun carried for self-defense.

I take it then you are not shortening the hammer arc in converting to DAO? Expect that you fire 100 rounds of your carry ammo and accept on "O" FTF and tweak fitup again if you get one? Jerry Kieffer was near you and used to check Cu indent when he was with Richmond PD. Was unable to after he retired because he couldn't get the coppers. Sadly he's no longer with us. I use Sandy Garrett at NoVA Gun Works these days.

[charlie b]

A great thread here.

I will add to those that say the mode of carry has a LOT to do with body shape and wardrobe. In my younger years I wore tight jeans and fitted shirts. No way to conceal much that way.

Now days I have a lot more 'fluff' and wear baggy pants and shirts. I can easily conceal a full size 1911 with an IWB holster. My preferred carry is an OWB pancake holster and my 'fluff' helps conceal the grip area just fine.

Wardrobe. When I rode a motorcycle a lot the pants I wore were made from padded 1000d Cordura with 'armor' pads at hips and knee. I could slip the SP101 (.357Mag) in the front pocket and didn't even know it was there. Could not do the same even with loose jeans. Would drag the pants down on that side.

I am considering another snubbie and really like the LCR. Just trying to decide on .38, .357 and whether to get 3" barrel or not.

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[megasupermagnum]

For a pocket carry, the LCR is the way to go. I would not recommend the LCRX 3" for pocket carry, they simply become too big unless you have huge pockets. I would actually steer you to the 6 shot 327 fed mag, but between the 38 special or 357 magnum, I choose the 38 special. It is lighter, and a 357 magnum is unpleasant at best in such a lightweight. The 327 LCR can shoot quite the fireball with Federal factory loads, but isn't as bad with the heavier bullet handloads.

[rfd]

The .327 Fed Mag is a great round! I really liked shooting it and the resulting accuracy, but the .38spl got my nod since that cartridge is pretty ubiquitous and I can get all the once fired brass for free at my local cop range. :)

[Petrol & Powder]

Outpost75, the bobbed hammers lose the spur and nothing else. That drops a few grams off the mass off the hammer but it doesn't affect reliability. I function test with carry ammo (usually far in excess of 100 rounds) and with handloads using CCI primers. The only time I ever had a problem was when I sent a 2" K-frame off to a gunsmith and I think we had a misunderstanding. I corrected the issue and I cannot place the blame on him because I think it was a communication issue.

Charlie B, I have a real attraction to 3" barreled DA revolvers but they are outside of my arbitrary definition of "snubnose". (which I set at 2.5" of barrel length)
A 3" barrel is no longer a pocket gun (even some 2.25" barrels are not pocket guns). So as much as I like the 3" tube on a DA revolver, those are holster guns. That's not a deal breaker, just cut-off point for me. Once I step up to a 3" barrel, a full size grip and a holster, I'm squarely in K-frame, GP-100 or Speed-Six territory. This isn't set in stone, just a personal view.

[edp2k]

Keep in mind an LCR is significant bigger than a J frame 442 or 642 when it comes to pocket carry.
You may want to try before you buy.

[Petrol & Powder]

Going ALL the way back to the OP : "I’m thinking it’s about time to augment my 3” medium-frame carry guns with a true small-frame 2” snub that can be carried in a pocket holster ...." - I believe a few points are important for pocket carry.

1. It needs to be a DAO gun. Internal hammer or bobbed hammer.
2. A lightweight frame is desirable.
3. It doesn't need to be chambered in .357 magnum. It doesn't hurt if it is, but a magnum chambering isn't a requirement.
4. It should be as "snag free" as possible.

Under the umbrella of current production guns and blue jean pocket capable; we have the various S&W DAO J-frames and the Ruger LCR that fit the above criteria.

If we add some wardrobe choices and older guns, the options open up even more.

A few features are deal breakers. A 3" barreled DA revolver is NOT a pocket gun. So if pocket carry is in the cards, 3" barrels are out.
Steel framed guns can be pocket guns but they would not be my first choice.

You can select a mode of carry and find a gun that fits that mode of carry.
OR
You can find a gun and select a mode of carry that works with that gun.

The choice is yours but you can't ride two horses at one time. You must pick one.

[charlie b]

Sorry, forgot to mention I don't pocket carry. It would go in a pancake or IWB holster. And, yes, 3" is not really a snubby.

And, yes, I have fired a .357Mag LCR. While a bit stiff it was not uncomfortable in small doses. I'd practice with lighter loads and keep the full power stuff for 'field' use.

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[LUCKYDAWG13]

I found one of these a few years ago in a LGS and just love it as a back pocket pistol https://pkfirearms.com/smith-wesson-637-wyatt-deep-cover-gunsmoke-revolver-38-special-p-sku-170347 I did swap out the grips I carry it a lot more then my SP101 but I pocket carry it if on my belt its the Ruger with a 3" barrel

[johniv]

I carry a pocket gun every day, but I don’t mind the weight of an all steel revolver. I also don’t like the factory grips, so it wears Pachmyer compacs. I dress like Emmitt Kelly so the slight increase in size also doesn’t bother me. So it’s an old S&W 640 in .38 spl.

[stubshaft]

I carry either my mdl. 36 or 642. They work fine for me.

[Petrol & Powder]

The old S&W 640 no dash model from 1989-1996; had a 1 7/8" barrel and was chambered in 38 Special. The 640-1 came out in 1996 and was chambered in 357 Mag. The 640-1 had a 2 1/8" barrel.
Personally, I think the old "no dash" 640 models are the best of the stainless steel Centennial models. They are basically stainless versions of the the old blued model 40 without the grip safety.

The factory grips often leave a bit to be desired. Some version of the "Boot Grip" style grip will greatly improve the handling of a J-frame without adding to the overall size of the gun. The Pachmayr compacs are also a good choice for concealment. They are a tad bit fatter than factory grips, but they don't add much length. Some people find the Pachmayr grips better than the Boot Grips. I think they are both good choices -pick what works for you.

[Lonegun1894]

I carry either my SP101 .357 or my Taurus 605 .357 as backups in my pocket, but have to admit I prefer the Ruger and trust it more, even if it is slightly heavier. Thanks for all the great info in this thread everyone!

[FergusonTO35]

I carry my S&W 637 alot. It has a Pachmayr Compac Pro grip and the front sight is painted white.

[Petrol & Powder]

Lots of talk about front sights and I think that's a good thing.
The front sight on any handgun is an important part of accurate shooting but there's a compromise between speed and accuracy.

A sharply undercut, flat black front sight is great for target shooting but would be horrible for drawing from concealment. A ramped front sight is far more appropriate for combat use but it can be a bit less precise. (although probably more than good enough for close combat)

Because getting the gun into play from a concealed position is critical, most combat type sights are designed to be as "snag resistant" as possible. Visibility of the front sight is the next issue.
A flat black front sight provides excellent visibility in good lighting conditions but it loses all of that advantage in poor lighting.
A brightly colored front sight is somewhat better in low light but is harder to see in bright light.
Night sights are an excellent compromise but not always an option on every gun.
Several contributors to this thread have reported using laser sights. That's another option.
It's a bit old school, but I've seen revolvers with a brass or gold bead inset into the top of a ramp sight. The ramp was flat black and the rear of the bead was polished. That was a pretty good compromise for bright or low light situations.

Many of the old designs of snubnose revolvers utilize a ramped front sight that is integral to the barrel. They are not likely to snag on clothing or gear and they are certainly tough; but they are not real conducive to the installation of night sights (although it can be done with some machining work).
Some of the newer snubnose revolvers come equipped with better sights or at least user replaceable sights.

Pick what works for you.

[Norske]

The hammerless S&W 642 is difficult to shoot well if your individual revolver has a heavy trigger. An easier to shoot alternative is the S&W with a shrouded hammer (Bodyguard?) whose hammer can be cocked for single action shooting.

[onelight]

For iwb owb at the 2 to 4 o'clock position I don't find a 3" or 4" barrel that much different to carry than a 2" .
For OWB a high rise pancake , for IWB a holster styled like a milt sparks summer special are comfortable for me with 4.2" sp101s. But if you at least want the option of pocket carry the long ones don't work.
I wish I liked pocket carry but I like sitting and I can't get them out unless standing without a lot of grunting and groaning and wrestling around :)

[rfd]

The 642c (Centenial) has the internal hammer. With mine, I simply changed the rebound and hammer springs that significantly reduced trigger pull and worked fine with standard primers.

https://i.imgur.com/hLetv1r.jpg

[WestKentucky]

They aren’t super easy to find but my Miroku Liberty Chief is a wonderful bastard gun. Built like a S&W that latches like a Colt. The grip is smaller than most, and it’s a 6 shot. So it’s part J, part K, part D...

[Petrol & Powder]

As rfd pointed out, the Centennial models are the internal hammer versions of the J-frames.
In 38/357 caliber those are the models 40, 42, 442, 640, 642, 340, 342 and I'm probably forgetting a few.

The Bodyguards have the shrouded hammer. Those are the models 38 and 49.

The internal hammer DAO models are no different to fire than any of the exposed hammer models fired in DA.

[megasupermagnum]

Keep in mind an LCR is significant bigger than a J frame 442 or 642 when it comes to pocket carry.
You may want to try before you buy.

You are mistaken. The LCR is nearly identical to the J frame in every dimension. You might be thinking of the SP101.

[ddixie884]

The grips they come with make them look bulky. Bot they will fit inside the same box as a J frame.

[charlie b]

IIRC the SP101 is not quite as small, and the stock gun has longer grips than my old Taurus 85. Being all steel (and a lot of it) the weight is the real issue.

[Petrol & Powder]

The Ruger SP101 and the Ruger LCR are two totally different animals.

My impression of the LCR is that it is Ruger's modern take on the S&W alloy J-frame Centennial. With imitation being the sincerest form of flattery, I think that says a lot for the S&W airweight Centennial models.

The SP101 is a bit old school but an excellent gun. In terms of size, the SP101 lands in between the S&W J-frame and the S&W K-frame.
The SP101 is a little big to be classified as a pocket gun and it is way too heavy to be in the same category as a J-frame. That weight doesn't make it a bad gun, but it is something to be considered.

The SP101 is incredibly strong. When they were first introduced they were made for 38 Special and had slightly shorter cylinders and frames. The SP101 was not originally designed to be a 357 magnum revolver but the platform was more than strong enough to handle 357 mag. loads. Ruger made some SP101's chambered for 357 mag on those early short frames. They were marked ".357 Magnum 125 grain ammo only". Circa 1991, Ruger re-designed the SP101 and lengthened the cylinder and frame slightly. (about 1/10") and after that the 357 magnum models could accept any factory loaded 357 magnum cartridge.

While I don't think the 2.25" barreled SP101 is a suitable pocket gun (it's too large and too heavy, IMO) it is an incredibly strong snubnose revolver. When carried in a holster where the little extra weight and bulk isn't as critical - the SP101 is a formidable fighting tool.
It would be difficult to wear out a SP101, even with heavy loads. Those things are built like anvils.

[megasupermagnum]

I've tried the SP101 in a pocket, that is a no go. As said, the LCR is a completely different gun. The SP101 has monumental potential that Ruger and the aftermarket has not fully appreciated. The SP101 could be what the S&W K frame wants to be, but I think the SP101 is a more durable gun. It wont wear out with full power 357 magnum loads. All it needs is for somebody to make a field or target worthy grip, it would be perfect. As it is, the SP101 was pigeon holed into being a CCW revolver only, as such only small concealable grips are available for it. I find this odd, as the LCRX has a grip that would work well, if only it were fitted to an SP101. Also the single six sells like hot cakes as a field gun. I don't understand why anyone doesn't see the SP101's field potential.

[onelight]

I think some of us do see the potential.
They make the 4.2 with adjustable sights it makes a nice walking around gun . In both 327 and 357.
Would be nice if they made a 3" adjustable sight version.

[megasupermagnum]

I think some of us do see the potential.
They make the 4.2 with adjustable sights it makes a nice walking around gun . In both 327 and 357.
Would be nice if they made a 3" adjustable sight version.

Ruger now lists one 3" with Novak adjustable sights, one 2 1/4" with Novak adjustable sights, and one 3" with Ruger fully adjustable sights. All three 357 magnum.

For other calibers, it's only custom. Here is my 327 Federal 3" with fully adjustable sights, and a custom made grip. It shoots lights out too. My 3" SP101 without sights shot maybe 6" at 50 yards at best. This one can come close to 3" at 50 yards, but is far harder to shoot well than the GP100. Put that same grip on a 4 1/4" barrel model, and you'd have quite the packable deer gun.


https://i.ibb.co/cLmBYpF/0717201227a.jpg

[Greg S]

Carried a model 10 and 19 for years. Great for shoot ability. Tried a 642 "airweight" and looking for it's replacement. Thinking of a stainless J frame or back to a 2.5" M19. Right now, rocking a 4" 65 that is about to get trimmed back to 3". Steel frame for me.

[edp2k]

You are mistaken. The LCR is nearly identical to the J frame in every dimension. You might be thinking of the SP101.

An LCRx has the exact same grip frame as an LCR, since all listings for grips list them as fitting LCR/LCRx.
Thus, with all due respect, you are the mistaken party here.

To determine suitability for pocket carry, I have closely compared,
via laying on one top of the other with stock hogue grips, an LCRx with a 642,
and the trigger guard size and area, and grip frame size, length/height, and width
are around 3/8" to 1/2" bigger on the LCRx.
The trigger guard loop is definitely a lot bigger on the LCR/LCRx than a J frame 642.

Thus a pocket which fits a 642 J frame nicely (not too big or not too small) would be really tight
with a LCR/LCRx. So the LCR/LCRx would either be a really tight fit, and really print and be tough
to draw, and its likely that the LCR/LCRx grip would protrude from the pants pocket and eliminate the
"concealed" from concealed carry. And I'm not talking about pants for a string bean.

My point has nothing to do with a SP101 at all, don't know where you got that from.

[RJM52]

Read all the posts...have a question for those of you who "pocket carry" as in front pants pocket... When you drive a car or just seated at a restaurant, do you keep the gun in your pocket or move it another location. And if it stays in your pocket how long does it take you to get out once you identify a threat...

Thanks...Bob

[megasupermagnum]

An LCRx has the exact same grip frame as an LCR, since all listings for grips list them as fitting LCR/LCRx.
Thus, with all due respect, you are the mistaken party here.

To determine suitability for pocket carry, I have closely compared,
via laying on one top of the other with stock hogue grips, an LCRx with a 642,
and the trigger guard size and area, and grip frame size, length/height, and width
are around 3/8" to 1/2" bigger on the LCRx.
The trigger guard loop is definitely a lot bigger on the LCR/LCRx than a J frame 642.

Thus a pocket which fits a 642 J frame nicely (not too big or not too small) would be really tight
with a LCR/LCRx. So the LCR/LCRx would either be a really tight fit, and really print and be tough
to draw, and its likely that the LCR/LCRx grip would protrude from the pants pocket and eliminate the
"concealed" from concealed carry. And I'm not talking about pants for a string bean.

My point has nothing to do with a SP101 at all, don't know where you got that from.

The SP101 was simply a guess.

No, the LCR (and small LCRX) are pretty much the same size as a J frame. The trigger guards are slightly different shapes, the grips are different, but width, length, and height are almost identical. An LCR fits right into a J frame pocket holster. I have mine in one now. A quick online search shows a J frame 38 special cylinder is 1.306" in diameter. I just measured the cylinder of my 327 federal LCR, and it is 1.280". So the LCR is actually narrower than a J frame.

I just found a comparison done by LuckyGunner, link below. I think you are splitting hairs. The J frame is smaller in some dimensions, and the LCR smaller in others. Overall they are the same. I only pocket carry my LCR. It fully conceals in all pants I have, no worries at all.

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-wesson-j-frame-versus-ruger-lcr/

[charlie b]

To be fair that link shows the LCR to be a full 0.2" bigger in height and length. Not anything I would get excited about and it would not change how the gun 'prints' in a pants pocket.

The SP101 fit in my pants pocket just fine. IMHO it was just too heavy for std blue jeans, slacks or cargo pants.

[Petrol & Powder]

Read all the posts...have a question for those of you who "pocket carry" as in front pants pocket... When you drive a car or just seated at a restaurant, do you keep the gun in your pocket or move it another location. And if it stays in your pocket how long does it take you to get out once you identify a threat...

Thanks...Bob

Excellent question
Drawing from a front pocket is a maneuver that needs to be practiced. While not as fast as drawing from a strong side OWB holster, it can be mastered and be quite fast. There is also a strong tactical advantage to be gained by placing your hand on the grip while keeping the gun in your pocket. If the situation doesn't develop to a point that it is necessary to present the gun, no one is alerted to the presence of the gun. If it is needed, the presentation from that point is extremely fast.

As for drawing from a pocket holster while seated, a lot depends on the seating position and the type of pants.
Blue jeans have a pocket opening more parallel with the belt line than on most dress pants and khakis that have a vertical pocket opening. Depending on how deep the pocket is, the gun will be positioned in a slightly different manner with different types of pants. Both types of pants will allow the gun to be drawn while seated but the technique may have to be modified.

As for drawing a gun while seated in a vehicle - A LOT depends on the vehicle and your body type. Some cars with large center consoles and heavily contoured seats make drawing any gun difficult. However, if you're operating a 2 ton vehicle, the vehicle itself is likely a far better first option. If you can escape the threat completely, that is by far the best option. If you cannot completely escape the threat but you can use the vehicle to create a little time and distance, that's far better than sitting still while attempting to access a firearm. In a deadly force situation bending some sheet metal is the least of your worries.

I'm not a fan of specialized modes of carry for short term situations. Some professionals that engage in vehicle surveillance, executive protection and courier services often do prefer a dedicated rig for use while seated in a car. These are typically cross draw appendix carry or shoulder holsters. I don't think most people would benefit from constantly changing their mode of carry based on whether or not they are seated in a vehicle. It's just an unnecessary complication.
I also think it's a bad practice to have an unsecured firearm in a vehicle. It will not be where you want it to be in an emergency.

If you studied the 1986 Miami Shootout, you may recall one of the federal agents upholstered his primary sidearm prior to the take down. When the vehicles collided, he lost that firearm.

A gun carried for self defense should be on you, carried in the same place all the time and go where you go.

[rintinglen]

^^^^^What he said.
When I'm in my car, it is my primary weapon. The accelerator replaces my trigger. A 4,000 pound vehicle at 60 miles an hour has the same energy as 15,000+ 44 magnums.

[edp2k]

To be fair that link shows the LCR to be a full 0.2" bigger in height and length.

You don't say? :)

[charlie b]

Yep, it isn't 3/8 or 1/2" bigger :)

[RJM52]

Thank you...

"If you studied the 1986 Miami Shootout, you may recall one of the federal agents upholstered his primary sidearm prior to the take down. When the vehicles collided, he lost that firearm."..actually it was two of them....Hanlon and Manauzzi. Hanlon at least had a 5-shot Chief BUG...Manauzzi did not...

As to the vehicle being used as ones primary weapon, there are many videos I have seen of car jackings in cities where traffic was to the point one could not maneuver out of the situation.

Bob

[Lefty Red]

For pocket carry, I want the lighter Airweight frames. I don’t try to make a target pistol out of the Airweight, they are point and click weapons. And can make well placed shots out to 7-10 yards if the user practices with it. A dab of bright nail polish and nightly practice makes a world of difference.

I carry a 642 or 637 while in town, and the 351c disappears in the pocket while on the farm. All in the same Alabama Pocket Holster.

Anything bigger or heavier goes on the belt or shoulder holster.

Lefty

[GoodOlBoy]

#1 I'm not sure why you would worry about holsters with a pocket pistol. They are meant to be... wait for it ... A POCKET pistol! WHOOOOO Carried my charter stainless undercover (with spur hammer) in a jeans pocket for more than a decade. Stainless because it is Texas and men sweat, and spur hammer because reasons.

#2 I'm also not sure why in the heck a replaceable front sight would even be mentioned. Pocket pistols tend to be tuned point of aim with whatever is made into the barrel, AND a replaceable front sight would most likely be MORE likely to hang when you need to pull. In point of fact I know of a great deal of old timers who had the front sight simply cut off of pocket pistols. I also know of more than one that would cut the barrel on a longer pistol, reduce the grip frame size, and then solder half a silver dime onto the barrel for a sight. Pulls easy, doesn't hang up, and is more than good enough to get you on target.

#3 and maybe I mentioned this already, but why would a replaceable front sight even be mentioned? Most encounters happen within' 7 yards. Look it up, itsathing that happens. Having had to pull a pocket pistol more than once I can tell you at that range you don't raise the pistol to eye level checking elbow bend and wind direction in the tactical teacup position number four, you don't aim down a sight, you don't put on ear and eye protection, you don't adjust the rear view mirrors, you don't turn down the radio, and you don't return your seat and tray to their fully upright positions. One of the times I had to pull was against a rabid dog who had me dead to rights when I slid out of my pickup. He was shot once at three feet and a second time and third time on the ground because ammo is cheap, or at least it was at the time. Swapping out a front sight would not have made me more accurate, nor saved me time, money, pull speed, fps, nor would I have saved 15% on my car insurance.

Good Luck, and God Bless.

Richard

[Petrol & Powder]

Slight thread drift here but there's a tendency to forget the actual power of a car. Unless you're blocked in on all sides by large trucks, you can likely force your way out of the danger zone. It will not be pretty but it will work. And if traffic is so bad you can't escape, .....how is the car jacker going to leave with your car after he takes it?

Action pistol matches often have stages that mimic shooting from a car or while seated at a table. Those stages can be fun but just because you can do something, doesn't mean that's always the right course of action.
The best defense against a car jacking (or any robbery) is situational awareness. Leaving yourself an escape route, paying attention to the world around you and having a plan will increase your odds of survival greatly.

[Petrol & Powder]

The front sight issue came up in the very first post in this thread.
A ramped, or rounded front sight is probably about as snag resistant as no sight at all AND far more useful than no sight at all.
While deliberate aiming is certainly not a part of all close quarters combat, having the option is probably better than not having the option.

A pistol (or revolver) carried in a pocket, should still be carried in a pocket holster.
1. A pocket holster covers the trigger, greatly increasing the safety of that mode of carry.
2. It keeps the gun oriented correctly within the pocket.
3. It breaks up the outline of the gun.

[ddixie884]

To be fair that link shows the LCR to be a full 0.2" bigger in height and length.

If you put bekini grips on it it will be the same size as a J-frame and not have enough grip for real +P use. JMHO..............

[johniv]

Read all the posts...have a question for those of you who "pocket carry" as in front pants pocket... When you drive a car or just seated at a restaurant, do you keep the gun in your pocket or move it another location. And if it stays in your pocket how long does it take you to get out once you identify a threat...

Thanks...Bob
Yeah they are slow to get out of some pockets. I carry mine in a sticky pocket holster, and on trips it can be carried crossdraw, inside my waistband.

[GoodOlBoy]

Heck I dunno, maybe I just buy better or worse jeans than everybody else. More than a decade of carrying a charter arms in walmart five star faded denim relaxed fit 42x30 wranglers and the only time it was ever spotted was when it was pulled. Nowdays I don't go anywhere except Dr's offices, and am only now getting back down in 44s (jeans not guns). I've seen many an old timer packing a 38 or 32 in a pair of old overalls that you'd never see comin' if you were up to no good and feelin' frisky.

Never had a problem with the gun changing orientation, and never had the hammer spur hang up when I needed to pull, never had the trigger pulled by anything in the pocket; all of which are listed reasons holster makers have to buy their holster. You get people nervy about what "might" happen and you can sell them whatever you want to sell them. Bigger and badder the scenarios the easier it is to sell. As for already covering the sight question. I didn't cover it until my post

To answer Bob. When I use to work and drive I would pull it out of the pants and put it either in between the seat partition in my pickup, or in the door. I'm thankful the only things I had to shoot were rabid dogs, and copperhead snakes. If I am a passenger (always am now) it stays in the pocket.

Anyway. In a restaurant it also stays in the pocket. "...once you identify a threat..." There's a missed distinction there. Identifying a threat doesn't mean pulling a gun or bringing it into play. It means just that. Identifying a threat. Identify, assess, act (or don't). Just because some belligerent drunk staggers into a restaurant doesn't mean you commence. Could be an honest to goodness bad guy, or he could be some son of a gun who just lost his kids in a bad divorce and decided to enhance the decision making paradigm that got him there with alcohol. Could be both.

I dunno. Maybe I am overly sensitive.

God Bless

Richard

[ddixie884]

Good points...........

[RJM52]

Thanks you...
"...once you identify a threat..." ...I should have been more specific...once you identify the threat and need to get the gun in your hand...

[Outpost75]

Pocket carry does not work when sitting, especially in a car when belted in. New York Reload carried in a calf or ankle holster as backup and "seated primary" has worked for 40 years.

[winelover]

Pocket carry can work, while seated, if one wears pants with cargo pockets.......I wear Wrangler Ranger Carpenter pants and use Mika pocket holster, with the optional squared off bottom. Even went as far as having the bottom of the holster made wider.

Winelover

[charlie b]

I would carry a NY reload but it is not legal in NM. The law specifies only one pistol can be carried concealed. Since this is an open carry state you may be able to carry one open and one concealed, but, I have not found that in writing anywhere.

An ankle carry makes sense when in a car, if you can bend over far enough to get to it :) My biggest concern in a car is a well executed car jacking. They are done quickly and there is really no escape. Even drawing a weapon is not a guarantee since there will be at least two armed perps when it is done well.

Sent from my SM-P580 using Tapatalk

[FergusonTO35]

Gave my 637 some exercise yesterday. It has an 8 pound rebound spring, polished internals, and reduced power (8 pounds I think) hammer spring. This little wheelie has a sweet trigger pull and I can shoot it as well as alot of bigger guns. Keep it stoked with 3.1 grains Accurate Nitro 100 under a 150 grain SWC.

[RJM52]

8# rebound spring...all of my guns get "iffy" with anything under 12# so I have standardized on 13#... Glad yours workkk..

Bob

[Bill*B]

Guys and girls, there is no PERFECT pistol. Just hope that you have one in your hand when you need it. Ain't got none - no good! Got one - A OK!

[GoodOlBoy]

Guys and girls, there is no PERFECT pistol. Just hope that you have one in your hand when you need it. Ain't got none - no good! Got one - A OK!

Now that's the danged truth right there.

God Bless

Richard

[Jtarm]

Great thread and comments. Absolutely necessary to "dress to the gun."

And while I agree with Petrol and Powder there is no serious tactical issue in choosing between a 5-shot or a 6-shot revolver, I have never shot a J-frame well and do much better with a K-frame or Colt D-frame. Dehorning the hammer spur is an advantage for concealed carry, but it is often difficult to maintain 0.011" minimum striker indent (ON COPPER) with the lighter hammer, particularly if the hammer arc has been reduced in converting the gun to DAO. My pocket holsters have a tab which extends behind the hammer to mitigate against it catching on the pocket, and I learned years ago to find the hammer spur with my thumb when withdrawing the gun. Old school, we weren't allowed "gunfighter" mods.

I’m a huge fan of the K-frame. Among other things, the trigger is generally much better than the J-frames I’ve tried.

80% of the time, a 3” K-frame is on my belt. I’m just looking for a lighter, slightly smaller gun for pocket carry when I’m dripping sweat out in the yard.

[Petrol & Powder]

.....

80% of the time, a 3” K-frame is on my belt. I’m just looking for a lighter, slightly smaller gun for pocket carry when I’m dripping sweat out in the yard.

/\ This pretty much sums up the issue /\

A 2" J-frame (or similar sized revolver) is typically selected for its small size and low weight.
Good work can be done with a J-frame but they require some dedication to master. Most people can transition from a 4" or 3" K-frame to a 2" K-frame with relative ease. About the only thing that changes is the sight radius. However, stepping down to a 2" J-frame is a bit more of a change. There's just not as much gun to hold onto.

I think the little J-frames get unfairly maligned. They are capable of fine accuracy and speed, even in DA and with the lightweight models - but it requires some dedication and practice.
IF you have the option of holster carry, a K-frame is probably a far better choice.
The strength of those little J-frames are the carry and concealment options they provide.

[Jtarm]

8# rebound spring...all of my guns get "iffy" with anything under 12# so I have standardized on 13#... Glad yours workkk..

Bob

Agree, that’s about a 40% reduction from factory. Plus I believe it’s generally recommended that main and rebound springs be kept in balance.

A smooth, even trigger is more critical than pull weight.

[Petrol & Powder]

I concur that a smooth trigger is far more important than a light trigger.

A snubnose revolver is a self-defense tool. Reliable function comes above all else. It needs to go bang when you want it to go bang.

[ddixie884]

I agree. #1 have a gun, #2 it must work "ABSOLUTELY'', #3 your choice..............

[bigdog454]

for truck or car carry, I have a holster strapped to the steering column between my legs with a 2 1/2 in revolver

[Scrounge]

I have a Charter Arms Under Cover .38 that works for me.

I'll second the Charter Arms Under Covers, but don't get the ones with the alloy frames unless you're really insensitive to recoil. They're rough! And that is with medium loads, too. I was insensitive to recoil, I thought, until I got the alloy frame Pink Lady for SWMBO. I'll be loading lighter loads for her, since her hands aren't nearly as big and tough as mine.

Bill

[lancem]

I have a Colt Cobra that is great and I would recommend one if you can find one. Light, action like glass, and mine has a hammer shroud making it a true pocket gun. Mine is from the early 60's I think and I was told when I bought it that it was a trade in from a retired cop. The really cool thing is the front sight is bent, purposely, when aiming slowly front sight high and bringing it down on target you easily notice it is bent to the left what looks like a lot. Once on target the sights are dead on, someone knew what they were doing working on this and I'll never give it up.

[FergusonTO35]

I'll second the Charter Arms Under Covers, but don't get the ones with the alloy frames unless you're really insensitive to recoil. They're rough! And that is with medium loads, too. I was insensitive to recoil, I thought, until I got the alloy frame Pink Lady for SWMBO. I'll be loading lighter loads for her, since her hands aren't nearly as big and tough as mine.

Bill

The only thing I really don't like about Charters is the lack of grips selection. With me at least, grips make or break a snubby and there is just not much out there. I so wish Pachmayr would make the excellent Compac Pro for it.