New to me 1885 Miroku 38-55 mold advice needed

[sd5782]

New member of the single shot club here as I just purchased a Winchester Limited Series Traditional Hunter in 38-55. It sure is difficult to find definitive info on these. Serial number 33 which may be from the last batch from what I read. This is the 28" octagon barrel model. I've always wanted a falling block and wanted the lighter shooting 38-55. This gun came with the Lee Shaver rear Soule sight with the Hadley eyecup and a Lyman 17 front sight, so is suitable for the 200 yard range at my gun club where 99% of my shooting will be.

Getting reloading supplies in these troubling times is difficult. My order has been placed for Starline short brass as that is all that is available. RCBS cowboy dies ordered and also a .378 sizer die. My bore slugs just a bit under .369X.377, probably closer to .3765. A .379 bullet in some old thick brass wouldn't chamber when I was visiting a gunsmith old timer who shoots the vintage real Winchesters. I measured a 1-18 twist.

New molds of course are hard to come by at this time and cost a fortune. I would probably be happy with the Lee 250gr but don't want to pay $100 for a Lee. Looking around and seeing advice with a lot of people from here took me to the Accurate Mold site. I am posting here rather than the mold sub forum as I saw more discussions of this gun here and not the more common lever guns. I have read that this is an accurate gun but I may not know for a time as I try to get it up and running.

The Accurate site is quite daunting as there are so many molds to choose from. Ones that have sold more would seem to be a good start, but as there are so many more lever guns around, maybe that is not the best advice and hence my post here. I won't be competing or shooting more than a couple hundred a year so thought a 2 cavity aluminum cut with 2 different cavities would be a nice start. My posting reason is a question to the more knowledgeable about my possible choices:

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-255B

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-285D

I thought about these at a .378 minimum diameter and cast of mostly #2 and WW mixed with maybe 25% soft lead and kept in the 1100-1300 fps range. I hoped some single shot guys would have a bit more insight into this. All molds are scarce and expensive now, so I thought now is the time perhaps to go up a notch especially now that I upped the gun purchase a notch too for me personally.
Thanks for any info
Steve

[Jedman]

Hi Steve, I think you bought the rifle I have been looking at for some time at Clelands gun shop. You got a great deal on that as the rear sight is nearly a $ 500 sight alone. As far as the Lee mold, I have one but it is at a friends shop and if I can get it back I will sell it to you cheap. I already have a good bunch of the boolits probably a lifetime supply. Glad someone that will use the rifle got it ! My eyesight is what kept me from buying it.

Jedman

[sd5782]

Thanks Jedman, and you are correct on the gun. It is however the cheaper $260 Lee Shaver rear with the $85 eyecup so "only" a $350 rear sight. Ive wanted a falling block for 30 years but couldn't bring myself to spend the bucks. I only went to the store getting a hammer spring for my son's .357 and saw the 38-55 and temptation overcame me. That gun was a consignment sale and I offered $100 less than the price on the tag and the seller accepted. It is still the most expensive gun I have purchased, but $400 worth of front and rear sites sold me.

And thanks for the offer on the Lee mold. I have read that they shoot great out of this gun. I would gladly buy it from you. That would change my mold choices if I wanted to try something fancier and get me shooting and have a baseline too. One needs a couple choices per caliber too of course. Thanks much.

[wade]

i have the same gun in 38/55 i shoot the lyman 335 bullet with blackpowder it works great --wade

[daved63]

I have had good luck with this bullet:

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/376/sc379-235-rf-w5/379-235gr-rf-2-cavity-gc-rd/

They actually have them in stock at the moment in gas checked and plain base. The one I use is the Ranch Dog gas check version with the tumble lube grooves instead of the traditional lube grooves but all other measurements are the same. It is the most accurate bullet I have tried in my Winchester Trapper Limited Edition. It edges out the Lee 250 grain by just a bit accuracy wise.

[Bigslug]

I bird-dogged the same gun for my Dad in .32-40, and it's just plain scary accurate - no "accurate for cast" caveat on that one.

Best advice I can give is to do a chamber slug to figure out what you need for a nose shape. Note that the 255 grain mold you listed is stepped down - presumably to clear a shorter/tighter throat. The 285 grainer moves that diameter forward a bit more, but then, with straight cases, you can always seat deeper if you need to.

You've got the 18" twist, which I recall as being the faster twist the .38-55 has trended to in recent years to enable longer range ability to knock over silhouettes with 300+ grainers, so presumably there's room.

I'm a big fan of Tom's molds - especially in brass. You won't regret the purchase if you give him good intel.

[sd5782]

Thanks for the advice on the nose shape on the 255. The step down matches the .369 bore so I was considering the front to be a bore rider and to help alignment when chambering especially as the short brass is all that I could find. If wisdom is to go full size I will take that and any advice.

No bore cast, but when supplies arrive I do plan on seeing how far away the lands are. I do have a handful of the Lyman 379248 bullets and 1 Lyman 325 gr to measure things up a bit. An old acquaintance made me an apparatus resembling a Sinclair tool where one uses a case with a loose fitting bullet and then pushes it forward to engage the rifling and then retract and measure. Of course, this needs done with each bullet, but preliminary measurements will give an idea.

[Chill Wills]

Do you have a dial indicator?
Two easy to take measurements will tell you (for all bullets) where the rifling starts in front of the chamber.

Slide any bullet (no cartridge) into the chamber and up into the rifling very lightly. Use the dial indicator to measure from the breach face to the bottom of the bullet. Write it down.
Remove the bullet.
Measure the bullet from the bullet base up to the marks the rifling left on the bullet nose. They could be faint.
Write it down.
Add the the two measurements.
You now know for all bullets, the distance from the base of the loaded round to the start of the rifling.

[sd5782]

Pretty much the same concept with the homemade tool. Mine resembles the Hornady made one. Quite handy for playing around with OAL.

[marlinman93]

The .378 sizer die should make your bullets fit well, and also chamber without any issue. The newer 1885's seem to have tighter chambers than older guns do in .38-55 caliber.
The 1:18" twist will be the limiting factor for bullets, and likely it will shoot better with bullets of 260 gr. or lighter, and not the heavy 300 gr. bullets used in .38-55's with barrels having 1:12"- 1:15" twist rates.
When I set up a cartridge to check OAL and bullet seating depth I size the case and seat a bullet out long. Then I just bump the case enough to remove the bell I put on the mouth to seat the bullet. This way the bullet can move easily when chambered. I then chamber the case and push it in until I can close the action. Then open the action and don't pull the case out. Instead push a cleaning rod down the barrel to push it out so the bullet wont move when extracted.
After measuring OAL you should be able to load a cartridge and check that it chambers easily. Then all can be loaded to the same length and you're set.

[sd5782]

It is interesting that many others have mentioned the heavy bullets in this twist. That is why I included the 285 in my original post. I’m not interested at first try to push the envelope, but if I did order a custom mold, the 285 isn’t that much into the heavy range and could be interesting.

I thought I might get some info into the different shaped lube grooves on that 285. They are rounded and differ from the other molds. It looks as though it would fill out easier.

[Chill Wills]

For just fun shooting as you have described, a 285 grn bullet should do all that you need.

15 twist barrels are good up to 330 grn bullets. 12 twist rifles are really target rifles or specialty long range type rifles. The longer 355- 365 grn bullets will be stabilized depending on their design. They take a lot more work and understanding to bullet weight.
As far as lube groove shape. No difference. Cast well filled out bullets and no one will every have reason to know.

Have fun!

[koger]

I have a Win Miroku 38/55 with a Marlbes Tang sight and a small bead front, is scary accurate with the lee 255 gr that comes out 265 gr with my alloy of half wheel weights, half soft lead. The lyman mold comes in at 338 gr with the same alloy, both bullets shoot very well, the heaviers bullet shoots better at longer ranges, past 200yds. I use IMR 4198 in my loads.

[sd5782]

I have a Win Miroku 38/55 with a Marlbes Tang sight and a small bead front, is scary accurate with the lee 255 gr that comes out 265 gr with my alloy of half wheel weights, half soft lead. The lyman mold comes in at 338 gr with the same alloy, both bullets shoot very well, the heaviers bullet shoots better at longer ranges, past 200yds. I use IMR 4198 in my loads.

I am trying to find that Lee bullet mold and I thought that ww/soft 50-50 at about 1200 would be great too. I’ve waited 25 years for a falling block, so a couple months more won’t be too hard

[marlinman93]

Really depends on how far and how fast you push the 285 gr. bullets. If you're going to keep them down around 1200 fps, then they likely wont be an issue at 300 yds. or less. But with a slower bullet, and slower twist rate, plus the weight, they might begin to lose accuracy if you shot them out to 500 yds. or more. At longer distances you'd need to push them a little faster to keep them stabilized out further.

[sd5782]

No luck on buying a mold. I didn’t think this caliber was that rare. I borrowed a Lyman 379248 that got me started, but that mold is just a bit off. 377-378 and a bit out of round. Nose a bit fatter than base. Straight as cast and tumble lubed at a bit over 1200fps got me on paper at just under 3” at 100 yards. Improvement needed, but a starting point.

So, I was at the Accurate Molds website getting info to order a mold. I was thinking of a double cavity aluminum mold with two different bullets in it. Being a single shot, I wasn’t after a crimp groove or even a front driving band. Advice needed on these;

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-250C

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-285H

Or these 285s with a front band or the one with round lube grooves that looks interesting.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-285I

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-285D

I was thinking minimum .378 and 20:1 alloy. 2 different weights to play with. Any negative advice before I order?
Thanks for any insights.

[koger]

That sounds like a plan to me, good idea.

[marlinman93]

The 285 gr. isn't that much heavier, but as I mentioned before, if you choose to buy it and shoot it in your 1:18" twist barrel you'll need to increase the velocity of your load to make the heavy bullet work well in the 18" twist. You can shoot lighter bullets in a fast twist a lot easier than trying to get heavy bullets to shoot well in a slow twist.
I'd suggest that if you buy Tom's Accurate mold that you step up to brass or iron blocks. They're more money, but they'll last forever, and the bullets will drop so much easier, and never have sprue plate galling like aluminum can.

[sd5782]

Okay, Marlin man you talked me into it so I ordered an iron mold for an extra $50. I got 250 and 285 designs in the same mold to have a variety.

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-285D

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=38-250C

No driving band or crimp groove as it is for a single shot. Size preference was .379" plus or minus .001 as gun is .3765 and I have a .378 sizer. Hoping for as cast coming out at .378-.379.

Ive been looking for 3 months for even a Lee mold, and the Lyman 378248 I borrowed throws a bit under .378. Wait is 12 weeks, so might as well do it right.

As an aside on those Marlins like in your name, I have a couple. One is a 1952 30-30 rifle version that is NOT drilled and tapped and wears a Lyman receiver sight. The other is an 1894CL from the mid 80s in 25-20 wearing a Williams peep. Both love lead and shoot wonderfully. Thanks for the input.

[marlinman93]

Having both in one mold is a better idea. At least if one doesn't work as well you wont end up with a mold you don't use.
My Marlins anymore are mostly Marlin Ballard single shots. I do still have three 1881's in two .40-60 and one .45-70 caliber, 1893 takedown in .25-36M, and a deluxe 1894 in .25-20M.

[sd5782]

Yes, both cavities are in a single mold on this order. Hope it works out for $185.

I also participated in a long range silhouette shoot near me last Sunday . Perhaps a dozen shooters, all with custom stuff and me with a new to me stock gun that I’ve only fired less than 40 times, and shooting a bullet a tad undersized with little load development. I had a very pleasant experience. Those were some experienced shooters and nice equipment too. Gotta love the set triggers. I did hit 18 out of 40 at 200-400 yards after missing all 10 offhand shots at chickens at 100. I’ve never really shot offhand.

I didn’t have competition shoots in mind when buying this gun, just shooting at my gun club out to 200 yards. That 300 and 400 stuff was serious fun. I almost started laughing when my spotter said “hit” and then a split second later I heard the ring. Load was Lyman 379248 that cast .377-.378, tumble lubed with 9.8 of unique that cronos at 1238 FPS. 75-80 shots total and almost no leading on cleanup. I had fun and also got to shoot someone’s 45-90 Shiloh with black powder and 535 grain bullets and set trigger a couple shots.

[bigted]

I have 2 38's.

A custom hiwall ( Miroku) and my relined old '93'. The custom has a .375 inch barrel with a 14 inch twist and a heavy #4 winchester contour octagon green mountain.

The 93 was relined back to the 18 twist with the longer chamber for the 2.30 inch long brass.

I do not like the round bottom grooves. Dont hold enough lube. And I have a horrible time for some reason getting the boolit to fill out with any success. Then there is the fact that I hate the looks of them ( hows that for scientific).

I like the large square bottom grooves with a fairly small meplate. My accurate mold 380275 is just such a mold. It shoots Old E 2F black powder very well. The single shot likes both the old Hornaday 220 flat point and the RCBS 37-250 boolit.

I like shooting 3031 in both rifles but my fav is the black powder loads. If memories serve , the load that does best is 42 grain of the 2F. Sparked with a CCI 200 large rifle primer. No over powder card and compressed around .200 inch. Compression done with the boolit.

Lube is the excellent SPG lube. I crimp in a last step separate from seating. And I crimp in two different styles. First and for the Marlin is the LEE factory crimp. For the single shot I settled on the RCBS taper crimp in the seating and crimp die. This last is also done in a separate step.

Good luck on loading and shooting your JapChester hiwall. They are great fun. Just about as much fun as ya can have with yer cloths on.

[sd5782]

Funny scientific comment on the lube grooves. I don’t have a great supply of tin and have had a hard time getting square edges to fill out. That is my scientific reason to try the round ones. I guess we put down our money and takes our chances. I guess it’s all a gamble to see what works anyhow. On the match I shot, I fired 75-80 rounds of the Lyman 379248 that were only tumble lubed and had almost NO lead. No used or other molds out there to try for me either. Now comes the waiting.

[sd5782]

So, getting interested in another long range shoot with no new mold. As mentioned before, I shot perhaps 75 of the Lyman 379248 that were a bit undersized for what I would consider good. Very little lead with that shooting with “as cast” tumble lubed with white label 45-45-10. I used a Lewis brass screen handgun patch pull through to get the little bit of lead streaks out.

Remember, new gun and new shooter, and first attempt. No new mold yet for a couple or 3 months. Another guy wants to observe at the next match as he thought it very interesting. So, I may invite him to shoot my gun too. Looks like 125-150 shots total for both of us with probably the cleaning half way through.

I’m thinking perhaps my .378 sizer die with lube and then tumble lube too maybe keep the little bit of leading out. Actually I was surprised that this only bullet I had that was a bit out of round and a bit undersized actually did well enough to put a smile on my face.

I went to the new guys range, and he put 3 shots in under 2 inches at 100 yards, so I have to let him try at 300-400 yards too. Too much fun to just observe.

[bpcrshooter]

Ok this is going to sound weird but, my box and rifle say 00033. It too is a traditional hunter in 38-55.

[GregLaROCHE]

I was hoping to see a picture of this great gun. Do you have any you can post?

[bpcrshooter]

285362

[sd5782]

Ok this is going to sound weird but, my box and rifle say 00033. It too is a traditional hunter in 38-55.
Hey, mine is 00033. Yours looks to have nicer wood and case hardened receiver. Mine is plain blue, and fairly plain wood. That brings up the dating question which I never saw good answers for. I think I saw that one batch was from perhaps 2006 or so, and perhaps a more recent batch was from maybe 10 years ago. I never really saw anything definitive. I believe I read that on one run just 50 of the 38-55s were produced, but I sure can’t verify that either.

[bpcrshooter]

Hey, mine is 00033. Yours looks to have nicer wood and case hardened receiver. Mine is plain blue, and fairly plain wood. That brings up the dating question which I never saw good answers for. I think I saw that one batch was from perhaps 2006 or so, and perhaps a more recent batch was from maybe 10 years ago. I never really saw anything definitive. I believe I read that on one run just 50 of the 38-55s were produced, but I sure can’t verify that either.

I talked with Winchester and their reply was....(for my model) 86 were made. Mine is very new, as in last fall. I was told they were made for the 2016 Shot Show. I believe there is a 32-40 (ser 00033) on Gunbroker now, built like yours with the blued receiver.


matt

[Rapier]

I have read accounts of shooting single shots by Harry Pope, he carried his ammo in wax paper, in his jacket pocket, bullets hand seated, long, in the case. He used the lands to seat the bullets for firing even when hunting with his crafted single shots. If you can find a copy of his book, it is well worth the read especially if you are interested in single shot BP style rifles.

[oldred]

Does anyone make a mold good for a 38-55 in a mid-weight round nose bullet design?

[Jim22]

New molds of course are hard to come by at this time and cost a fortune. I would probably be happy with the Lee 250gr but don't want to pay $100 for a Lee. Looking around and seeing advice with a lot of people from here took me to the Accurate Mold site. I am posting here rather than the mold sub forum as I saw more discussions of this gun here and not the more common lever guns. I have read that this is an accurate gun but I may not know for a time as I try to get it up and running.


Steve

I have a two cavity Lee .379" 250 grain GC mould that is surplus to me. New in the box. PM me if interested.

[bpcrshooter]

Lyman makes the mini postell, it comes in at 330gr range depending on alloy. You can always have one made to your specs at one of the many mold makers. maybe take that design and have them shorten it and add a round nose to it.


matt

[sd5782]

New mold from Accurate Molds arrived yesterday. About 8 weeks which is a full month sooner than expected. Nothing cast yet, but it is a beautiful looking mold. 2 different cavities as mentioned. 250 and 285 grains. It will be awhile to get some casting and testing in.
I participated in another shoot, so I have been learning some technique and preferences as far as shooting sticks, hold, sites, etc. so it hasn’t been all wasted energy. Top shooter hit 43 of 50, and the 100 yard chickens are shot offhand. I will never be competitive, but will never fun. I improved from an 18 on my first try to a 19.

[sd5782]

Back again. I took some time away from this gun in frustration as I had poor luck with accuracy in the fall and at shoots with my newly purchased mold. I didn’t really have proper powders and the time to develop loads. 2-3” at 100 yards and 4-6 at 200 isn’t quite good enough accuracy for the 3-400 yards I was trying for with the club I went to.
I have lots of Herco, and with a Lyman 250 gr mold 10.3 gr got 1270 FPS. I didn’t get a chance to crono on my new mold with 250/285 bullets. The accuracy wasn’t great. That Lyman mold shot better with unique than my first attempts at my new mold. I am retired now, so going at it again if the weather ever warms up.
I have a lead thermometer and also the Lee 379250 mold coming. Going to work on my casting technique as the bullets I cast earlier we’re are bit undersized in the center from too hot of a mold I think. A couple powders are now showing up and I may try some RL7 and aim for about 1300fps. The Lee of course is not supposed to be a long range bullet with the bevel base, but a year ago no molds were out there. Can’t have too many molds. My apologies for not updating sooner.

[Eddie Southgate]

Mine likes the 375248 with 19.6 gr of H4198 in Winchester brass trimmed to 2.075 and CCI 200 primer with a COL of 2.545 and a very light crimp. Velocity is right at 1408 . It shoots a couple of others rather well but this is what it really shines with .

[Jeff Michel]

I'm betting your moving to RL7 will make a big difference. If you want to use a pistol powder, 2400 or Unique works pretty good in most straight wall applications.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[Randy Bohannon]

The dual cavity mould with two different weights will give you problems when casting. I have nearly the same mould in brass for .375 Winchester. I have to do about ten bullets in the small cavity as it takes longer to heat up than the bigger cavity. It will take practice to get good bullets from each cavity. I have gone to just casting from one or the other and not both. To many rejects trying to do both at the same time,to do it again I would do two single cavity moulds or both the same is better.

[sd5782]

The dual cavity mould with two different weights will give you problems when casting. I have nearly the same mould in brass for .375 Winchester. I have to do about ten bullets in the small cavity as it takes longer to heat up than the bigger cavity. It will take practice to get good bullets from each cavity. I have gone to just casting from one or the other and not both. To many rejects trying to do both at the same time,to do it again I would do two single cavity moulds or both the same is better.

I think you are quite correct. My first attempts got bullets that were .375 in the center portion and .379 at base and front. Reading on this forum pointed to a too hot mold expanding slightly in the middle. After that I slowed down and alternated casts between front and back. It was a bit better, but not great. I will need to slow down more and touch the mold to a damp towel every few casts I think and as suggested, treat it as 2 single cavity molds.

I’m learning more about casting with this gun. Most of my molds have been Lee, although perhaps 7 or 8 are various steel ones. There is also the accuracy factor when trying to shoot 400 yards. 30-30 and 7x57 with gaschecks at 100 yards is pretty forgiving. I do have a lead thermometer coming soon.

When I bought this gun, powders were practically unavailable. I have on hand several suitable powders, but only in 1 lb cans and partially used. The shoots require 75-80 shots, so I didn’t work up loads for a powder that I wasn’t going to be able to buy anyhow. That left me with my inappropriate bulk jug of Herco. I’m still not done trying it yet, as I have a bunch. Obviously one wouldn’t try it with a classic 100 year old gun, but the miroku is noted as a strong action. Still, no attempt will be made at 1600-1800 FPS, but as in unique loads maybe something accurate can be found in a safe 1300fps range so I can use this powder. Now if spring would arrive so I can get to the range.

[mdatlanta]

I just finished reading through this whole thread and really enjoyed it. I hope you’ll keep us posted on your progress.
Good luck on your journey!

[Gunlaker]

Are you 100% sure about the 1:18 twist rate? The Winchester web site lists the twist rate at 1:15 for their 1885 Traditional Hunter .38-55's.

https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-1885/past/model-1885-high-wall-traditional-hunter.html

Chris.

[sd5782]

I’m nearly certain that I checked it myself after also reading it posted in various places. I will check it again to be sure.

[Gunlaker]

The only reason I came across this info was that I just saw a "high grade" traditional hunter in .38-55 at a good price so did some digging on their website just yesterday believe it or not :-)

Chris.

[sd5782]

I had never seen that Winchester posting and thought I had read 18 from most places, and thought I confirmed that. Today I ran some patches through and was trying to be as accurate as possible, and I recently got a nice tight fitting cleaning jag too. Of course, it is all a bit of ballpark work with putting marks on the cleaning rod and watching it rotate around. I did keep getting about 15-16”. Towards the last of a half dozen tries, I used a piece of masking tape with a fine pen mark to index off of. I got 15.5” twist pretty reliably. Thanks for that info forcing me to recheck.

I did a little very quick crono work in cold damp weather trying to beat impending drizzle today also. I wanted to try for accuracy too, but it became apparent that my front aperture and my target prevented a good enough sight picture. Also I was trying to beat the rain and get some numbers. RE7 showed promise at 23.5 grains at 1386 FPS, and that big can of Herco I had was giving 1295 with 11.3 grains and burned very clean. Both with 250 grain bullets. I’m thinking I want about 1325 FPS, so this is a baseline. Can’t really crono at my range in nice weather as there will be a few other shooters making it awkward.

Gunlaker, I hope that helps a bit, and you helped me also. These are supposed to be accurate guns, but so far not for me. I have been using a less than ideal powder, as there wasn’t much available. I should also note that I am shooting the short Starline brass while this gun will take the long brass. Actually, I was happy even to get that brass as I think it is all out now and has been out. Just a very pleasant caliber for lead shooting. Good luck if you purchase one.

[Gunlaker]

That faster twist rate is good news because it should give you plenty of mold choices.

In my .38-55's I have almost always shot breech seated bullets which is probably not what your after. In those I'm generally around 18gr of IMR-4227 and a 320 grain tapered Creedmoor bullet cast from a Buffalo Arms rifle. Or a full case of black powder and a breech seated paper patched bullet.

If I was to shoot fixed ammunition I'd be tempted to try the 330gr Lyman Postell bullet ( or a better quality copy of it, maybe a Brooks mold ), assuming the groove diameter is around 0.376" or so. Not that I have experience with that bullet, but that there are a few shooters that I have great respect for that have mentioned it.

I'm still contemplating that Winchester. I don't really need it, but it is tempting :-)

Chris.

[sd5782]

Another question Chris, as I research a bit more. I am retired now and have more time, hence getting back to this gun. Your link to Winchester seems to refer to the 2016 guns. Other postings I see lead to 2006 guns also. Both are like mine listed as “limited series traditional hunter”. Mine says BACO import as I’ve seen on the Davison 2006 guns. Those are listed as 18” twist, but as you know, people checked and got 15”. So, my greatest confusion now besides making it shoot well is the question of when it was made. The only number I see on it is that 00033 number. Would you have a clue as to it being a 2006 or 2016 gun. I’m thinking 2006 as someone had it long enough to play with sights and get tired of it and put it up for sale a year ago. Also, what powder do you like with a bit heavier bullet like the 290 in one half of my mold? RL7 looked promising with the 250. Thanks much.

[Gunlaker]

There is a guy that sometimes posts here by the name of TexasMac. He knows a lot about the Miroku built 1885's. If you can find him and send him a p.m. I'm 100% sure he'll be able to figure out when it was built. I have only ever used IMR-4227 when shooting smokeless in the .38-55. I'm mostly a black powder guy but when I got into schuetzen rifles I decided to experiment with smokeless in those rifles. IMR-4227 is excellent for the .32-40 and worked really well for my .38-55's too so I stopped there to be honest.

Do you have the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook? In addition to Reloder7 they have loads for a few other common powders like IMR-4198, 5744, IMR-3031.

Chris.

[sd5782]

Thanks Chris. I did see many posts on TexasMac. Is he the one with a book also? Yep, I have a Lyman book and several others and see the other powders. I have 5744 and like it, but also less than a pound. If I wasn’t so lazy, I might try black powder, but that sounds like a lot of learning. Perhaps in the future. Thanks, I may look for some 4227 and lots of people like 4198 too. Last I saw 4227 was $44/lb. Oh well.

[lotech]

Just to add to the mix...I bought a Traditional Hunter .38-55 in 1997. I think this was not long after they were introduced. In developing loads, I fired over a thousand rounds of cast bullet handloads using five bullets that weighed between 250 and 340 grains and four powders. I called a Browning design engineer who told me that the twist rate was 1 in 15"; bore and groove dimensions were .373" and .379" in accordance with SAAMI specs. Whether these numbers have remained constant through many years of production, I don't know.

I sized all bullets using a .379" die. Best 100 yard group sizes were around 2" using the tang sight. I'd have to look up the details on best bullets, but the one I've continued with all these years has been the Lyman 270 grain flat nose gas check design (don't remember the number). After concluding my load development work, I mounted a 6X Lyman silhouette scope on the rifle to see how my best loads would do with a scope. Group sizes were about the same as with the tang sight, 2".

[sd5782]

Thanks Lotech. The later ones I believe from what I have read were like mine at .368X.376 or .377. My first sizer was .378, but I’ve since got a .379. I am going to concentrate on the 288gr mold I have and sized .379. I would be happy with 2” at 100 yards with 1 1/2” on occasion. It sure is a pleasant shooting gun in any case.

[lotech]

Thanks Lotech. The later ones I believe from what I have read were like mine at .368X.376 or .377. My first sizer was .378, but I’ve since got a .379. I am going to concentrate on the 288gr mold I have and sized .379. I would be happy with 2” at 100 yards with 1 1/2” on occasion. It sure is a pleasant shooting gun in any case.

Just an FYI- there's a feature-length article in HANDLOADER magazine #210 (April 2001) with considerable load data worked up in a .38-55 Traditional Hunter. I don't know if this is available from online sources.

[sd5782]

Learning a bit more at a couple cold range sessions. Had the crono out very quickly before it rained. Another sunny day, other shooters were out, so I didn’t get to crono. It was breezy and cold. I had targets at 100, and it took a bit to match my target size and aperture.

Throughout, my AA lighter 250 gr bullet didn’t do too well with what I tried in it. The Lee actually looked promising. Finally near the end I put a post front aperture in and was shooting the 290 gr AA mold. I got 1 1/2” at 100 yds using 11 grains of my Herco that I have a big jug of. No crono, but extrapolating from readings on the 250s it should be right around 1200 FPS. Smiles.

This got me thinking and searching the net when I got home. I’ve seen where folks have mentioned numbers that show a bullet being correct for twist, or the twist needed for your bullet and velocity. Can someone point me to a useful formula. I came across many. Numbers said this bullet was overstabilized, but that seemed better than the other way. 1.07” bullet at 288grs. I guess I am coming up with some results.

[warren5421]

TexasMac's Web Site. http://www.texas-mac.com/index.html

[sd5782]

So, I got back out to the range with this gun and only shot at 50 yards getting some crono numbers. Of course that isn’t the final word on things, but getting a new gun/mold/powder, I like to have some kind of baseline. Results were with this gun which is probably a fair bit stronger than many older ones. I wasn’t however trying to push things fast, so no advice given here.

I sized bullets to .379 and had minimal case sizing and no crimp. I also seated touching the lands to about .025” out with varying batches. I was aiming for the 1250-1320 FPS velocity range as it seems the black powder guns are perhaps at those velocities and I was hoping to hit silhouettes out to 400 yards.

I did have good results with Herco with extreme spreads for 5-8 shot crono groups being in the 30-50 FPS range, and that was for 6 different load bullet combos. Velocities were in the 1200-1320 range. Max load was 11.3 grains. 11 grains got just over 1300 with 3 different 250 gr bullets. I would have used unique if I had a big jug, but as I have the Herco, I wanted to give it a try.

I also learned a lesson and will have to up my reloading skills when using the more appropriate powders. Loading RL7 at what should be a mild load with about 23 grains gave 1612 FPS with the 250s and 1460 with the heavier 285. Extreme spreads were well over 100fps. I had a similar result with some older 4759 where a moderate 17 grains went 1350 with over 100 FPS spread. It would seem that using the Dacron filler to keep the powder positioned would be in order if I were to try those again. Lesson learned.

I was just posting results in case there are other new guys like me trying these cartridges. I’ve reloaded for 30 years, but 400 yards shooting is a whole lot different than my old Marlin 30-30 at 100 yards with a gas checked bullet. Remember, use your own discretion on loads, especially for older guns. The Lyman 47 does have 30-30 Herco loads.

[colt45sa]

Ok this is going to sound weird but, my box and rifle say 00033. It too is a traditional hunter in 38-55.
I just bought a traditional hunter and cant find the number '00033' anywhere on the rifle. Mine is a .38-55 too and it has the case colors, a tang sight, and the hammer stays fully cocked when you close the breech. I didn't get a box with it. What does the number '00033' mean~?

[fayettefatts]

I am on the same journey as many of you with my recently purchased 38-55 Traditional Hunter. Experimenting with smokeless powder and the Lee 250. I've thought about a heavier bullet but the options seem overwhelming and am still undecided. When I got my rifle I did some searching and found a chart similar to this one: https://www.browning.com/support/date-your-firearm/model-1885-rifle.html. Unfortunately I did not save it and now I can't find it. Some of the information is the same for both brands apparently. The first 5 numbers are the serial number. I think they started over with the numbers with each different model/year but dont know that for sure. Second two letters are the date of manufacture. It is the same code that Browning uses in the link I provided. The last 3 numbers/letters are the model designation. I think this information is correct, but I won't swear by it. Anxious to hear more about which bullet molds and loads are working best for you.

[EOChief66]

This has been an interesting thread for me. I recently purchased a Winchester 1885 38-55 that was re-barreled and re-blued. The bore slug measured .374, somewhat small, so I ordered 355grain .376" bullets from Montana Bullet Works.
I have been doing some ladder testing with some different powders, minimum powder charges. The powders that are showing some promise are 4198, 3031 and Reloader 7.
I would like to try some what lighter bullets, the recoil is stiff even with the minimum charges.
Any suggestions?

[sd5782]

Back at things again with this Miroku. I have been shooting the Lee 250 recently at the matches I go to as I have been frustrated with my other results. At the last shoot, I noticed that the rear vernier sight that came on this rifle had a peculiarity. I noticed that the base spring that holds the sight in the upright position when shooting has some mechanical play in it. This spring can move fore/aft in it’s base perhaps .020-.030”.

After noticing this, I looked carefully between shots at the orientation of the spring in it’s dovetail as I wiggled the sight several times to settle it into position. This was near the end of a match, but my hit rate went way up, and I had 8 of 10 hits at 400 yards. I may have been undermined all along by a minor problem with my rear sight.

So now, I am inspired to once again try my AA 285 gr bullet. In the meantime, I have acquired 2# of 4227 which the good shooters of this group use. They use heavier bullets in custom rifles with perhaps 18 grains. I think I will try 18 grains, and after lots of researching, I will try 17 grains and a polyester filler of about 1 grain.

I have read that these are accurate guns, so I hope I can get on the right track.

[Gunlaker]

IMR-4227 should be a pretty good choice. I use it in a couple of .38-55's with decent results, using bullets in the 310-320gr range.

Chris.

[sd5782]

A new start is in order. I visited my gunsmith, and we were able to fit a new base spring into the vernier sight that came on this gun. The staff now has a very positive solid feel when upright. Previously it was mushy and vague. Being new to this game, I wasn’t too aware of all of this.

I move a bit slow, and it is winter, so it might be awhile before I get some more accuracy testing done. I am cautiously optimistic based on my results after I had the lightbulb moment on the rear sight. All my previous attempts were not totally in vain, as I got some crono results, developed some load techniques, and broke in the trigger with close to 1,000 shots.

As to the suggestion on the 4227; I did get a couple old but sealed cans. I had decent results and had better results using the controversial poly filler. I’ve read that the Miroku is an accurate gun, so perhaps I will find out now. I also wonder if this gun was for sale at the gun store because of poor accuracy which I’m now hoping was just the rear sight.

[colt45sa]

First 5 digits on my Miroku are 00149. Octagon barrel, case colored receiver, and a Marbles tang peep site.