Dipping my toes into PCP Air Guns

[dverna]

A few months ago I decided to look into air guns as an alternative to using .22's and CF pistol calibers for "cheap" plinking and varmint eradication up to 75 yards.

My objectives were to:
Reduce dependency on .22's and their price/availability swings

In the past, I had used pistol caliber rifles to replace .22's when the market went nuts, but with primers fetching over $100/k that no longer made sense.

I wanted to reduce the work associated with plinking with .38's. Casting, lubing, sizing, policing brass, cleaning brass and reloading. Yes Virgina....some people do not enjoy casting and reloading all that much.

The goal is 1" groups to 50 yards.

Lastly, it would be pleasant to be able to shoot without hearing protection. I am fortunate to have a 200 yard range off my back porch in a rural area, so noise is not a factor, but wearing muffs is a PITA. The one downside to my range set up is .22 casings must be picked up....the PCP would remedy that.


I looked at my inventory and decided to convert some to cash and invest in some decent PCP equipment. I had an RWS springer with a scope, but it is tiring to shoot for extended periods so I sold it. The primers sold for more than I had hoped for, so I was set.

One of the members here (NSB?) was very pleased with his Daystate rifle and I found them on sale for $1000 at Airguns of Arizona. I added a 75 cut ft tank $590 and a DonnyFL Koi suppressor for $145. Last week I added a Sig Romeo5 Red Dot that will wind up being the day to day plinking/varmint sight $130.

With a goodly supply of pellets, and new scope mounts (I have a scope I can use for pellet testing) I am at an "outlay" of about $2000. The stuff I sold more than covered this investment so I am money ahead at this point.

Today was the first decent day of the year, and my path to PCP shooting began.

There was enough air in the gun from when it was delivered to fire a few shots. I have had it for nearly three months so it is not leaking much if at all...good news. More good news...it is quite and do not need hearing protection. The bad news....

To start accuracy testing I decided to air up the gun to full pressure. It is supposed to maintain peak accuracy for about 20 shots. But I had a bad leak at the QD fill fitting where it connects to the hose from the tank. I am cautious of dealing with 4500 psi air and decided to back off. Of course there is no technical help on the weekend but I sent an email anyway. I may have the incorrect connectors or I screwed up. Should know by Monday and will order what ever I need.

BTW, part of the incentive to try this was inspired by OS OK. I am an "old fart" like him and I needed a new challenge. My days of serious competitive shooting are behind me but I love trigger time.

I will be updating as I hopefully make progress.

[whtsmoke]

Good luck with your new endeavor, I too am in the same boat and try to conserve what supply of primers I have and switched to air, it gets addictive to say the least.

[NSB]

https://youtu.be/4iKeKSpPOBk
This video shows how to put air into your Daystate Huntsman Regal XL. I see a new video on AoA showing a quick disconnect on the same gun. Looks like Daystate made a change. I’m not sure which connection you have, but the newer one (quick connect) looks to be a bit more robust. I’ve got the older style as shown in the video on a gun I got just a year ago. Which one do you have on your gun? If it’s like the one in the video, you may have torn or lost one of the two o-rings on the probe you insert into the air tube on the gun. If so, you should have gotten a couple of spares with the gun.
Don, once you get past this “starting obstacle” you’re going to love that gun. With pellets that the gun likes I can easily (yes, EASILY) get five shot groups under .5” at fifty yards shooting off a bagged rest. The Daystate will rival groups you can get with a target .22lr. My Anschutz, T-Bolt, and my CZ don’t shoot much, if any better. Best of all, they’re really cheap to shoot. We’re not in trouble until we run out of air.

[OS OK]

"DANG IT ALL WITH THE BAD LUCK DON!"

I know how disappointing that must have been Don...you could'a made a bunch of holes by now.
One thing about us old'Farts...we have learned patience over the many decades...you'll get your trigger time soon!
Can't wait to see how well you do.

I hope this air gun stuff isn't catching....my wife would have a cat if I came a'beggin for another new rifle! :bigsmyl2:

[Dapaki]

I ended up with 3 DAR's, 1 in .22 and 2 in .25. The crosman premiere hollow points in
22 are cheap ($6.24 for 500) at Walmart so trigger time is still inexpensive.

[dverna]

Thanks for the encouragement gentlemen. I am not a quitter so remain positive.

NSB has sent me a PM and I will call him...great to have him as a resource.

Dapaki, I came really close to buying the DAR. It seems like a very good value. I will likely get one if my fiancé “claims” the Daystate. She is a very good shot and I am blessed that she not only supports my addiction but loves to shoot as well. If you could share your experience, it would be kind of you. Will it hold 1” at 50 yards?

[dverna]

NSB,
My fill is at the front using a QD fitting instead of the probe at the side as shown in the video.

[NSB]

NSB,
My fill is at the front using a QD fitting instead of the probe at the side as shown in the video.
Is this what you need?

https://www.amazon.com/Air-Venturi-Foster-Female-Quick-Disconnect/dp/B00F0NSJKU

[dverna]

Had a great talk with NSB. What a good resource he will be!!!

Before I called him, I took apart the fittings and think I found my problem. The QD fitting has a grub screw down the center. It makes no sense to me as how is the air supposed to flow through the fitting if there is a screw blocking the air way? Anyway, I took out the screw, but the QD fitting back on the tank hose and very carefully cracked the air tank valve..... I got the gun aired up!!! My understanding is the grub screw is to restrict air flow to reduce the risk of over pressurizing the gun so I am will see if I buggered it up somehow or if I got a defective unit. But for now, I can shoot! Just need to be super careful.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am an "old fart"

Don; just about everyone here is an "Old Fart!"

Randy

[OS OK]

old'farts rule :bigsmyl2:

[dtknowles]

My PCP is sitting in the gun case collecting dust. I put it away with a full charge and one afternoon it decided to blow its fill check valve. I think the wife peed herself. I can't seem to get anyone to answer about replacement parts, Career Ultra.

[Norcal707]

I hope this air gun stuff isn't catching....my wife would have a cat if I came a'beggin for another new rifle! :bigsmyl2:

Oh, it is, and how...

Bought my 1st air rifle in many years back in Nov 2016, a Benjamin Regal II .22 break barrel from Big 5 Sporting Goods. Got frustrated pretty quick with lack of repeatable accuracy mainly due to my not being able to master the Artillery Hold. Wandered into the PCP Forum on the Gateway to Airguns site and promptly ordered a single-shot Benjamin Maximus .22 with Handpump direct from Crosman.

Fast forward five years and I'm up to four PCP Rifles & my lust hasn't abated. In addition to the Maximus, I have a Benjamin Marauder .25 Synthetic, a Benjamin Fortitude Regulated .22, and my most recent addition, a Xisico Sentry 705 .22. The Sentry 705 is a budget Chinese rifle but is very well-constructed, has very smooth side-lever cocking, adjustable Power levels, and it is powerful and accurate.

Not sure what I'm going to get next but its likely going to be a Big Bore capable of taking Deer & Wild Pig!

[MrWolf]

Check your state hunting laws. We cannot use them for large game, only squirrels, rabbits, etc. I watched a few videos of them taking down deer and wanted one. May still get one for small game but I have some really cheap ones around here somewhere.

[dverna]

Put some groups on paper yesterday. Light wind under 5 mph.

Dismal...

I have five different pellets and tried them all. I have more varieties coming.

Anyway, I was going to start at 25 yards. but the test group with the gun is less than .2" at 20 yards and NSB has the same gun and is shooting sub 1/2" at 50 yards. So I set up at 50 yards.

I do not have a quality bench like OS OK constructed in his thread but a commercial "portable" bench make by Caldwell. I have shot sub MOA groups from it. Here it is:

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1015046882?pid=522717&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=bing&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Rests%2C+Bi-Pods+%26+Benches&utm_content=522717&cm_mmc=pf_ci_bing-_-Shooting+-+Rests%2C+Bi-Pods+%26+Benches-_-Caldwell-_-522717&msclkid=14a5a5301d521aa6a269c55b0f313807&utm_term=1101131606232

Groups were 1 3/8 to 4" at 50 yards. I am not too shabby behind a trigger so it is not me. I wondered if the suppressor may have been clipping the pellets so took it off, and no significant improvement. Next step is to change out the scope.

I had mounted a cheap Tasco 4-16 I had lying around. I cannot remember which gun I took it off of, but it may have been a .22 Hornet Handi-rifle (and that gun would not shoot either..?????). I sold it about 10 years ago. There is a Vortex Razor HD 5-20 mounted on my long range rifle. I have not got used it yet. so no loss of zero to deal with by removing it. It is a high end scope and should take that factor out of the equation.

BTW, nice not having to police brass, or wear muffs. Filling the gun from the air tank is a bit of a PITA as the pressure gauge is under the forearm. I am thinking about making a cradle affixed to the shooting table that will hold the 75 cut ft SCBA tank and that allows me to keep the tank connected to the gun. I would still need to fill the rifle when needed but I would not need to use the QD and bleed the fill line after every fill. Should save a bit of air by doing that as well.

[Norcal707]

Did you clean the barrel of your new rifle when you received it? If so, how did you clean it? What brand/model/weight are the pellets you tried?

[NSB]

Don, I can’t stress enough how these guns are like .22lr rifles.....they are fussy about ammo. With air guns I think it’s even more critical. The sample pack will save you money in the long run, and reduce the aggravation of buying and trying things that don’t work. If it helps, my Daystate has a distinct liking for the pellets in the attached picture. They all shot .5” or less at fifty yards.

http://www.straightshooters.com/straight-shooters-full-pellet-sampler-.22.html
280866

[OS OK]

Put some groups on paper yesterday. Light wind under 5 mph.

Dismal...

I have five different pellets and tried them all. I have more varieties coming.

Anyway, I was going to start at 25 yards. but the test group with the gun is less than .2" at 20 yards and NSB has the same gun and is shooting sub 1/2" at 50 yards. So I set up at 50 yards.

I do not have a quality bench like OS OK constructed in his thread but a commercial "portable" bench make by Caldwell. I have shot sub MOA groups from it. Here it is:

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1015046882?pid=522717&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=bing&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Rests%2C+Bi-Pods+%26+Benches&utm_content=522717&cm_mmc=pf_ci_bing-_-Shooting+-+Rests%2C+Bi-Pods+%26+Benches-_-Caldwell-_-522717&msclkid=14a5a5301d521aa6a269c55b0f313807&utm_term=1101131606232

Groups were 1 3/8 to 4" at 50 yards. I am not too shabby behind a trigger so it is not me. I wondered if the suppressor may have been clipping the pellets so took it off, and no significant improvement. Next step is to change out the scope.

I had mounted a cheap Tasco 4-16 I had lying around. I cannot remember which gun I took it off of, but it may have been a .22 Hornet Handi-rifle (and that gun would not shoot either..?????). I sold it about 10 years ago. There is a Vortex Razor HD 5-20 mounted on my long range rifle. I have not got used it yet. so no loss of zero to deal with by removing it. It is a high end scope and should take that factor out of the equation.

BTW, nice not having to police brass, or wear muffs. Filling the gun from the air tank is a bit of a PITA as the pressure gauge is under the forearm. I am thinking about making a cradle affixed to the shooting table that will hold the 75 cut ft SCBA tank and that allows me to keep the tank connected to the gun. I would still need to fill the rifle when needed but I would not need to use the QD and bleed the fill line after every fill. Should save a bit of air by doing that as well.

"DON'T GET DISCOURAGED DON ... this is just another 'rabbit'hole' ... jump in with both feet!"

[dverna]

Norcal707,

Pellets tried so far:
RWS Super-H-Point
JSB Jumbo Heavy 5.52mm 18.1 gr
JSB Jumbo Monster 5.52mm 25.4 gr
JSB Jumbo RS 5.52mm 13.4 gr
JSB Straton 5.5mm 15.9 gr.

I have not cleaned the barrel. I have felts on order to do that as that seems the safest way to do it. NSB told me he uses Ballistol and that is what I intend to use as well.

BTW, just got off the phone with NSB and I am going to try out the sampler pack he mentioned above. Seems like a very way to "cut to the chase" and find the pellets that work.

I doubt my accuracy issues are due to either a dirty barrel or the selection of pellets I have on hand. The groups, or should I say patterns, are too large.

I am going to try and get the Vortex scope mounted today and put some more rounds downrange if I have time.

[Norcal707]

The Patchworm Cleaning System is regarded as one of the best/safest ways to clean airgun barrels - http://patchworm.com/

[dverna]

Got the Vortex scope mounted. Man that thing is heavy.

Groups improved to about half size but not where I want to be. One group with the RWS pellets came in at 7/8" when the wind died down. Wind was quartering 12-15 mph so not ideal for a guy who cannot read it well...but that is one of the reasons I wanted to get into this. Just another skill to add.

NSB is sending me a sampler pack of match pellets but I have some cheap pellets on the way as well to hone my shot control in the wind. No point wasting a lot of match pellets until I learn to shoot this gun better.

Frankly, I am disappointed at this point, but at least making a little progress. Waiting for a calm day to see if that helps. When a shot falls an inch out of group I assume (hope) it is the wind and not me having the yips. Too much else to do today or I would take out the M52 and put some groups on paper to see how much trigger control I have lost.

[NSB]

Got the Vortex scope mounted. Man that thing is heavy.

Groups improved to about half size but not where I want to be. One group with the RWS pellets came in at 7/8" when the wind died down. Wind was quartering 12-15 mph so not ideal for a guy who cannot read it well...but that is one of the reasons I wanted to get into this. Just another skill to add.

NSB is sending me a sampler pack of match pellets but I have some cheap pellets on the way as well to hone my shot control in the wind. No point wasting a lot of match pellets until I learn to shoot this gun better.

Frankly, I am disappointed at this point, but at least making a little progress. Waiting for a calm day to see if that helps. When a shot falls an inch out of group I assume (hope) it is the wind and not me having the yips. Too much else to do today or I would take out the M52 and put some groups on paper to see how much trigger control I have lost.
Any wind....I repeat ANY wind will open your group up when shooting an air rifle. These pellets are light, even the “heavy” ones. I just mailed you the sample pack, a few cleaning items, and on a PM I sent you a link about cleaning a new air rifle barrel and what to use (and why) to clean it. It’s the best video I’ve seen on how to do it and the person presenting it is one of the top/most knowledgeable shooters with air rifles. He knows his stuff. Your gun will shoot much better after giving the barrel a good initial cleaning. After getting it clean, it will require very infrequent cleaning to maintain good accuracy.

[OS OK]

Don I have just shot with the conditions and have not given any account for the windage, just shot like it was a calm day (other than waiting for the gusty days to settle back between gusts some) I found that taking pictures of my target progress and noting the wind I can later study how the groups shift around, I'm getting a pretty good feel about the .22lr now and if I had to shoot for score, I think what I've learned would help a great deal.
They can tell you what you should compensate and you can try that but the end result is not often what you intended, the results won't indicate anything other than it hit or missed where your POA was. At 50 yards it's easier for me to see what a specific wind direction and speed will do to the groups, then after enough data is gathered you get a feel for it without calculating anything.
Your at the point where your gathering data, lots of data on this new undertaking and trying to understand a whole new ballgame.

[Norcal707]

Any wind....I repeat ANY wind will open your group up when shooting an air rifle. These pellets are light, even the “heavy” ones. I just mailed you the sample pack, a few cleaning items, and on a PM I sent you a link about cleaning a new air rifle barrel and what to use (and why) to clean it. It’s the best video I’ve seen on how to do it and the person presenting it is one of the top/most knowledgeable shooters with air rifles. He knows his stuff. Your gun will shoot much better after giving the barrel a good initial cleaning. After getting it clean, it will require very infrequent cleaning to maintain good accuracy.

Not trying to hijack Don's thread but could you post the link to the cleaning video here?

[NSB]

https://youtu.be/5xu6ZnX7q4M

[dtknowles]

Don I have just shot with the conditions and have not given any account for the windage, just shot like it was a calm day (other than waiting for the gusty days to settle back between gusts some) I found that taking pictures of my target progress and noting the wind I can later study how the groups shift around, I'm getting a pretty good feel about the .22lr now and if I had to shoot for score, I think what I've learned would help a great deal.
They can tell you what you should compensate and you can try that but the end result is not often what you intended, the results won't indicate anything other than it hit or missed where your POA was. At 50 yards it's easier for me to see what a specific wind direction and speed will do to the groups, then after enough data is gathered you get a feel for it without calculating anything.
Your at the point where your gathering data, lots of data on this new undertaking and trying to understand a whole new ballgame.

I am far from expert but I try to shoot each shot in the same condition. Dead calm is rare so I try to pick the most common condition of that hour and only pull the trigger when the wind speed, direction and distribution between the muzzle and the target is close to my chosen condition. Of course to do that you need wind flags or some such.

Tim

[dverna]

Don I have just shot with the conditions and have not given any account for the windage, just shot like it was a calm day (other than waiting for the gusty days to settle back between gusts some) I found that taking pictures of my target progress and noting the wind I can later study how the groups shift around, I'm getting a pretty good feel about the .22lr now and if I had to shoot for score, I think what I've learned would help a great deal.
They can tell you what you should compensate and you can try that but the end result is not often what you intended, the results won't indicate anything other than it hit or missed where your POA was. At 50 yards it's easier for me to see what a specific wind direction and speed will do to the groups, then after enough data is gathered you get a feel for it without calculating anything.
Your at the point where your gathering data, lots of data on this new undertaking and trying to understand a whole new ballgame.

Charlie,
Really appreciate your comments. I know wind will be a much greater problem with these light pellets, but it is part of the learning experience. It is a disadvantage relative to shooting my .223 and even the .22 LR.

I have one advantage with the pellet gun. Lots of good quality pellets at reasonable prices. Just need to find what the gun likes.

My strategy is to first find pellets that yield the best accuracy. Then buy about 5000 of whichever are available at the best price. Once I have those pellets, I will be able to do as you suggest. Shoot in the wind and learn how to compensate.

BTW, almost hate to post this. Tonight I found the screw that holds the stock to the action was loose...very loose. What a stupid oversight....not checking something so basic.

Rain forecast for tomorrow so hopefully can shoot some groups if it is not too miserable. Start jury duty Wednesday and hope my status as a Trumper, ex-executive gets me booted off by the attorney for the defense...lol. Thursday looking like a good day to shoot.

My “care package” from NSB should be here for the weekend.

[Capt Keith]

No kidding! Old Farts do rule! We have the money, patience, on just enough “crazy” to enjoy this sport!

[NSB]

Second big tip for air gunners:
https://www.amazon.com/bestsight-Riflescope-Anti-Cant-Shooting-Hunting/dp/B0772LZF9Z/ref=sr_1_15?dchild=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgdbcyszv7wIVF47ICh38DgmsEAAYASAA EgJvsfD_BwE&hvadid=409999912044&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9005498&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=17111033843824364386&hvtargid=kwd-3705196657&hydadcr=9376_11541455&keywords=scope+level&qid=1617917568&sr=8-15
Air gun scopes sit a lot higher over the bags than most rifle scopes do. Putting a level on a scope really shows how critical it is to not cant. I talked my friend into getting an air rifle right after I got mine. His Marauder shot pretty nice groups for a while and then it started opening up....bad. I told him he was canting and he didn’t believe me. I gave him my spare level and put it on his gun and made him watch it with every shot. His groups went right back to being tight again. Also, you’d better have a parallax adjustment on your scope at these distances. My buddy was shocked at how much a little tiny bit of cant opened his groups.
Note: don’t waste your money on an expensive level. Cheap ones work just as good.

[rogn]

Cleaning the barrel may provide some surprising results. And scopes fail more than we realise.

[Hdskip]

This was my solution to the tank storage situation.

281029

[Ohio686]

I am also thinking about dipping my toes into the pcp world. So thanks for the posts

[Dapaki]

281048

DAR .25 is killin' it! First shot was a fighter, adjusted and shot 2 on ate zero.

[Geezer in NH]

Gheesh! 30 years ago PCP was an illegal drug making it's useres crazy and strong.

Time changes things.

[dverna]

Last week, the Daystate crapped out. Partly my fault as I double fed two pellets. After getting that cleared, the magazine would not eject when I reinserted it. Airguns of Arizona told me to ship it back. BTW great folks to deal with

In frustration, I ordered a DAR....$300 delivered. Got the gun yesterday.

Just finished shooting 11 5-shot groups at 25 yards. Topped up the air after every 20 shots...air pressure drops from 200 bar to 150 bar after 20 shots.

Wind was 10 mph out of the NW and my range faces West.

Used cheapest pellets I had to break it in...Crosman 14.3 Domed pellets $10/500). Mounted a 4x12x44 UTG Accushot scope.

Averaged .45"; with smallest group at .22" and largest at .70." Mostly horizontal stringing but not bad.

I shot the gun without doing anything. Just wanted to see how it did. The trigger is not very good so I will need to address that.

The gun does not "feel" as good as the Daystate but at less than 1/3 the price I rate it is a very good value.

I am very pleased, and look forward to more trigger time with it. Will adjust the trigger, clean the barrel next time out and put another 250 rounds through it before wringing out the higher end pellets. But for plinking. under an 1" at 25 yards with $.02/pellets is loads of cheap fun.

Cannot wait to see how it shoots at 50 yards and what it does with better pellets.

BTW, my fiancé shot it as well. Loves not needing hearing protection. She is an excellent shot and matched my groups.

IMHO, it is a lot more fun than shooting .22 LR. Airing it up is a lot better than policing .22 cases off the deck. Neither one of us miss wearing hearing protection.

BTW, the DAR, was quieter than the Daystate with a DonneyFL suppressor.

If you are considering getting into PCP’s, it is worth considering the DAR.

[rbuck351]

Wow,I would consider $2000 as a head first dive not just dipping my toes in the water. But no matter, I just picked up a very slightly used Benjamin Discovery in 22 and am having a ball with it. I managed a 3 shot group of .400 at 50yds but I only have a few of that pellet so I didn't shoot a bunch of them. It will shoot most round nose pellets fairly well as in an inch or less at 50yds and will shoot wad cutters better than the rn up to about 25 yds. I got the gun, manual pump and a low priced 3x9 OA for $285 and then spent another $50 on a TKO (IIRC) "muzzle brake" which turned a fairly sharp crack into hearing the firing works in side the gun. It only operates at 2000 psi with 20 good shots down to 1000 psi at about 850 fps. My springer 22 does well to get under 1" at 20 yds with expensive pellets.

I probably won't go any farther with the PCP thing as I'm happy with the results of the Benjamin Discovery. The triggers is a bit crusty and I might try to doctor that a bit and try the barrel cleaning thing but that's about it.

[dverna]

rbuck,

"Head first dive..." LOL.

It is all relative. I am now close to $2500 into this PCP thing as I added another gun and scope. It is not for everyone, especially for guys who love to cast and reload. But I am not wired that way... more of a shooter. I used to use .38's for plinking but decided to sell most of my SPP when prices went nuts. Same with .22's when they got to over $50/brick. In my case, I am actually $$ ahead by moving my plinking/target shooting to PCP's. Might add a couple of pistols as well.

That cheap DAR ($300) looks like it will more accurate than cast bullets for plinking and varmints out to 50 yards with pellets $10/500. It may not match the accuracy of my M52 Winchester and lacks the power of the .22 but I am not using $10-20/50 ammunition either.

The biggest PITA has been air. I need to travel an hour to fill the large tank (cheap at $10/fill) but it will last over 4000 shots using .22 pellets. And tanks are expensive with an initial cost of about $600 and recertification every 5 years. But we will be shooting about 200-300 rounds a week. If we did that with .22's, cost (or value if I sell my inventory) would be $25-30/week with low end .22's. Step up to higher quality .22's and it gets pricey.

BTW, get the sampler pack from Straight Shooters to test out your gun.

https://www.straightshooters.com/straight-shooters-full-pellet-sampler-.22.html

Good luck!!

[NSB]

For me, it was ditto on everything Don Verna said. Great accuracy, cheap to shoot (not to buy, but to shoot), and the angst associated with supply and demand is gone. Air and pellets are pretty cheap and they are FUN to shoot. Don has pointed out that you DON’T have to spend a great amount to still get a good quality/accurate air gun.

[dverna]

Just finished another 16 groups this morning after cleaning the barrel. Could not adjust the trigger as I do not have a small enough hex key.

Today had a 8-10 gusting north wind...range faces west. Used the Crosman "bargain" pellets again...14.3 gr domed.

Average for 16 groups was .48" but this time I also recorded the vertical spread. It was only .29". The cross wind was having an effect. I suck at reading wind so not trying to hold off for it...at least for now. Want to see what the gun will do without the idiot behind the trigger buggering things up.

Also fired two groups with JSB 15.89 gr pellets and they averaged .31". Getting tired so hung it up for a while.

Will try and shoot more later. Itching to get some groups with the JSB's and seeing results at 50 yards, but the cross wind today will be a challenge at that distance.

Having lots of fun and outperforming most .22's with cheap ammo so far. Pellets appear to be at least twice as sensitive to wind as .22's...but still learning. NSB put it best...the gun has good practical accuracy for the price point. Should be great fun for plinking and small critters out to 50 yards.

[Shanghai Jack]

If I understood what you are saying, I had the same problem. It was a blown O-ring on the QDfitting - 5 second replacement.

[Shanghai Jack]

For me, it was ditto on everything Don Verna said. Great accuracy, cheap to shoot (not to buy, but to shoot), and the angst associated with supply and demand is gone. Air and pellets are pretty cheap and they are FUN to shoot. Don has pointed out that you DON’T have to spend a great amount to still get a good quality/accurate air gun.

I think the emphasis on the DON'T is misplaced it should be on the HAVE. You don't have to spend a lot, but you certainly can.

I went crazy and bought myself a Daystate Redwolf highpower and my wife a Daystate Delta Wol'f since she has always liked the AR form type. Of course she hated the Delta wolf and loved the Redwolf. She made me buy her another Redwolf in a different color stock. So about 7500 dollars later we're all satisfied for the minute. Gotta love it when the little woman makes you buy a new rifle.

[Shanghai Jack]

Also, if you've already got a large bottle, you might consider a QD regulated tether directly from bottle to gun. I'm probably preaching to the choir here though.

[dverna]

Also, if you've already got a large bottle, you might consider a QD regulated tether directly from bottle to gun. I'm probably preaching to the choir here though.

I have thought about that and am going to look into it. Do you have any recommendations??

BTW, went out after lunch and shot 12 groups with better pellets. Wind had picked up to 12 mph and gusting

The JSB 15.89 gr pellets did well. Average .41" groups and a bit less horizontal stringing than the Crosman's. IMHO not worth the premium for plinking but nice to see groups getting smaller. Had a .16" "wallet group".

For S&G's tried one target at 50 yards with the JSB's during a lull in the wind. .4" and perfectly round!!!! About 3/4” low from 25 yard zero. I expect it is a "wallet" group but promising none the less.

I have put 200 pellets down the gun so things should get better but I will be pleased if it stays like this. One make of pellets was dismal (H&N Barracuda Match 21.14 gr) NSB sent me a sampler pack but I am holding off using those up; and shooting some of the stuff I bought with the Daystate.

I will likely get another 10 tins of the Crosman pellets. At $10/500 they will keep the grandkids happy shooting for the weekend for less than going to Baskin-Robins. I have a spinner target for them, as punching paper gets boring, and those pellets are plenty accurate. If they put a few dings in the DAR it is not the end of the world.

[Capt Keith]

A couple of months ago I jumped in to big bore air rifles with an Airforce Texan SS in .457 caliber. I also went whole hog and started casting my own boolits for it. It is lots of fun, and is certainly addictive! The dynamics of shooting it is quite different from powder burners, but I like the change.

[sparky45]

Might I suggest these; they seem to work very well in my Venturi Avenger.
https://utahairguns.com/jsb-knockout-slugs-22-25-39gr-200-pcs/

[dverna]

Yesterday was my birthday and decided to put all the chores on the back burner and shoot. I had to send the Daystate to Airguns of Arizona awhile back and when I got it back bought a good scope (Aztec) for it from a member here...NSB. NSB recommend a nice set of rings for it and wanted to try it out. The Daystate had not shot well when I first got it. That has changed.

It was a great day to shoot. Sorry but I cannot get pictures to transfer from my phone so no pictures...you will have to trust me. LOL!! I shot a total of 47, 5 shot groups. I will list the smallest, largest and average of each 5 of 5 shot groups. BTW, I am a big believer is not quoting "wallet groups", or those itsy bitsy ones we get "when we do our part". Out of the nearly 250 shots fired I only dismissed one shot that I pulled. Everything else was recorded so this is REALITY.

Started at 25 yards:

Crosman 14.3 gr Domed Smallest .27", Largest .54", Average .35"
JSB Match 15.89 gr Smallest .19", Largest .44", Average .29"
H&N Barracuda 21.14 gr Smallest .19", Largest .42", Average .29"
Air Arms 16.0 gr Smallest .30", Largest .46", Average .37"


Then moved to 50 yards:

Crosman 14.3 gr Domed Smallest .52", Largest 1.20", Average .92"
JSB Match 15.89 gr Smallest .25", Largest .89", Average .55"
Air Arms 16.0 gr Smallest .43", Largest 1.3", Average .70"


After taking a break, I decided to run another set of groups for the JSB's and AA's. The one 1.3" group with the AA's bothered me....

JSB Match 15.89 gr Smallest .33", Largest .68", Average .61"
Air Arms 16.0 gr Smallest .38", Largest 1.08", Average .67"

I continue to be impressed with the cheap Crosman 14.3gr Domed pellets. At short range they perform very well. In the Daystate they averaged .35" at 25 yard for 5 groups. In the DAR, they averaged .46" for 41 groups. At a cost of $10-12/tin of 500 they are a good plinking and training pellet at 25 yards.

I have more work to do with the Daystate, with over 20 pellets to evaluate. I got a sampler pack from member NSB and have held off testing until the gun proved it could shoot. At this point, the JSB's tested above are the most consistent with groups ranging from .25" to .89" at 50 yards with a 10 group average of .58". At a cost of $18/500 they shoot about twice as accurately as bargain bulk .22's.

It was very pleasant not to have to constantly put hearing protection on and off. And I had no casings to pick up at the end of the day.

Any small critter within 50 yards is toast and I would not hesitate to reach out to 75 yards with the Daystate.

BTW, the Daystate is not top of line but not inexpensive either. With the scope and rings it will be a $1600 rig. The DAR I have is at about $600 with a cheaper scope and set of rings. I hope to shoot the DAR later today at 50 yards, but at 25 yards, the extra $1000 gets a difference of .35" vs .46" using the inexpensive Crosman pellets.

I will report on how the DAR performs at 50 yards later.

One last comment. I am new to "quality" air guns and these guns are still getting broken in. With a better shooter and more barrel "seasoning" results should improve. In spite of those caveats, a decent air gun has a lot of advantages over a .22 LR. If you want to shoot inexpensively, and not be held hostage by .22LR market conditions, air guns are worth thinking about.

I now spell FUN differently....PCP!!!

[sparky45]

Not only that Don, but N.O.E. makes molds so you could cast your own if times get real bad.

[dverna]

Was able to get some rounds downrange with the DAR at 50 yards today.

Again, using 5 - 5 shot groups as is my norm for testing.

Crosman 14.3 Domed Smallest .78", Largest 1.53", Average 1.08"
Barracuda Match 21.14 gr Smallest .68", Largest 1.38", Average .99"
JSB 15.89 gr Smallest .59", Largest .85", Average .73"
Air Arms 16.0 gr Smallest .64", Largest 1.25, Average .89"

Then cleaned the barrel...put about 15 pellets through it and tested the AA 16's again

AA 16 gr - clean barrel Smallest .45", Largest 1.1", Average .81"

The DAR does not match the Daystate in overall accuracy, but with the JSB 15.89 pellets it comes close. .73" for the DAR compared to .55" and .61" with the Daystate (average of 5 strings of 5 shots). It may not sound like much of a difference but we know how difficult it is to shave a bit off small groups. So far, the DAR seems a bit more particular about what pellets it likes, but that is not much of a concern once you find its preference and stock up.

I use an average group size of 1" to determine practical hunting accuracy for small critters. The DAR does that with all the pellets tested and with the JSB's it could be OK to 75 yards. That is respectable for a $300 PCP rifle.

A few other comments. I prefer the lever loading on the DAR over the bolt on the Daystate. The DAR comes with a shroud so it is a lot quitter. I had to put a moderator ($150) on the Daystate. The trigger on the DAR is not very good. I have adjusted it as best I can without tearing into it and stuffed some Lubriplate into the innards and that helped a lot...but still not a target trigger. Magazines for the DAR are $20, and $100 for the Daystate. Both are easy to handle and not "monsters" like some of the other PCP's

I have about $5-600 into the DAR and $1600 into the Daystate.

For plinking at 25 yards, it is difficult to justify spending another $1000 to shrink groups from .45" to .3-.35". The DAR is a winner for that kind of fun. And with most pellets it is an effective small critter getter to 50 yards and a bit more with pellets it likes.

I will likely set up the DAR as a short range plinker for fun shooting, and training gun for the grandkids using the Crosman pellets that is seems to love. Nice to shoot for $20-25/1000. I will keep working with the Daystate as a critter control gun as it has more potential. Even with premium pellets it will still cost about $40/1000 to shoot it.

Caution for those not familiar with PCP's. It is easy to overcharge the reservoir and I will not let my 7 year old grandson do it. Also, the lack of noise does not make them appear to be "real" guns but these are not toys. The boards on the pallet I use to mount targets are obliterated using .22 pellets.

[NSB]

Don, nice write-ups on your findings. I think you’ll find you can squeeze a bit more out of the Daystate when you go to the heavier JSB and heavier AirArms pellets. Mine shoots good with both, but the heavier pellets out perform the lighter ones on a regular basis. Let us know how it goes with further testing.

[Capt Keith]

In find my .22 AirForce Condor does best with real heavy pellets like the 25.39 grain JSB Diabolo Exact Monsters.

[dverna]

Did some more target work today. Was dealing with 10 mph crosswind so result were not stellar but still acceptable. Range of 50 yards.

I fired 10 5 shot groups with each pellet listed. Photos should get posted soon. (I have to send them from my phone to my email and then download them from the email. For some reason, it takes a long time for AOL to receive them even though they show as "sent")

Anyway,

The JSB Exact 15.89 pellets continue to perform well. Average group was .80" with smallest .62" and largest .96". Previously averaged .58" with smallest .25" and largest .89...under near ideal conditions.

Next up was the Air Arms Field Diablo. Today they averaged .73", with smallest group of .36" and largest of .97. Previous testing results were average of .68" with smallest of .38 and largest of 1.3.

Then tried a new pellet. The H&N Baracuda Hunter (18.21 gr). Average was .89 with smallest of .45" and largest of 1.54". I am 90% sure the wind got me on the 1.54" group and if I take that one out, average comes to .82" with the largest of the 9 groups at .93"

What I have learned....
First, a good air rifle with good pellets will shoot sub 1" groups at 50 yards consistently. That was my goal and it is easily met with the Daystate using four out of 6 pellets tested so far.

Second, wind can spoil your day. A 10 mph wind will drift a .22 pellet over 3" at 50 yards. Guessing wrong by 5 mph will cause the shot to be 1.5" out of group.

Third, I suck at reading wind. The air gun provides great training for learning to deal with wind at long range with a CF rifle. Note: a 10 mph wind will affect a .308 168 gr Match King bullet travelling 2600 fps 3" at 200 yards.

Today I tried shooting when the wind appeared to be steady as well as waiting for the wind to die down and shoot under calmer conditions. But like mentioned above, getting caught by a 5 mph puff or guessing wrong will not make for a happy ending.

Looks like my tank will need a top up as I cannot get over 210 bar. That will be fine with the DAR for a bit.

288979
288980

288981
288982

Note: on the Air Arms second target there are two groups for the JSB Monster Red pellets. The second group was so bad I only shot two groups

288983
288984

[NSB]

Don, I also learned that wind is the bane of air gunners. Any wind makes a difference and varying wind really makes you earn your stripes. Still, they are a hoot to shoot, and at an affordable price (excluding initial investment). I’ve found that the only way to really measure groups is to get out early or late when it’s dead calm and do my shooting then to determine which pellet performs the best. The .22lr shooter talk about which bullet shoots the best out of their gun. Pellet shooters are finding it’s just as critical if not more so to find the pellet your gun likes the best. Keep us posted. You’re going to be the “go-to guru” pretty soon :popcorn:

[chutesnreloads]

Good to hear I'm not the only one with wind issues. I may be full of it but the center fires seem to be better at 200-300 yards than the pellets at 30-50 I think maybe because the unpredictability of the wind starts to even out at the extended ranges

[sparky45]

Here's what I'm thinking about trying, probably get their sampler package for starters.

https://hardairmagazine.com/news/airgun-slugs-the-ammunition-of-the-future/

[OS OK]

Don... Have you tried to work with imgur for posting pictures?
I use pictures in almost every posting and it is quick and easy...best of all it's free. https://imgurinc.com/about (imgurinc.com/about)

I don't remember if I've recommended it to you yet, forgive me if I have already but you can do editing there also. Sizing & cropping is helpful if you don't have a photo editor on your computer.

[dverna]

Good to hear I'm not the only one with wind issues. I may be full of it but the center fires seem to be better at 200-300 yards than the pellets at 30-50 I think maybe because the unpredictability of the wind starts to even out at the extended ranges

You may be on to something. There will be more variation in wind over 200 yards than 50 yards...so more chance of “averaging”.

I have not put enough rounds downrange to come to any conclusion except the wind blows these little suckers around.

My range is about 70* to the prevailing wind and one option is to move my targets so I am shooting into the wind. I have plenty of room so that is not too difficult to do. That will aid in pellet testing but learning to deal with wind drift is going to be critical for critter control.....unless I can get the little rodents to cooperate...lol.

Just a new skill to learn. If it was easy, there would be no challenge.

[dverna]

Don... Have you tried to work with imgur for posting pictures?
I use pictures in almost every posting and it is quick and easy...best of all it's free. https://imgurinc.com/about (imgurinc.com/about)

I don't remember if I've recommended it to you yet, forgive me if I have already but you can do editing there also. Sizing & cropping is helpful if you don't have a photo editor on your computer.

TY my friend!!! Imgur worked...somewhat.

I got the pictures posted. They are sideways but at least they are there. If you click on them they enlarge.

[chutesnreloads]

Got a chance to shoot into the wind this weekend.....pretty good left to right but 2" of vertical stringing
I've just keep my critter control at 30 yards or under. Not all that hard in my average backyard.
Won't be running out of squirrels any time soon

[dverna]

A nice day today...a bit windy...7 mph but lots of gusting...wind is OK if it is relatively steady. At least it was a quartering breeze.

Tested some new pellets and was not doing too well so shot some of the pellets I know will shoot. Here are the results from best to worst: These are all five shot group averages at 50 yards.

Air Arms 16.0 gr. Average of .64"
JSB Exact 15.89gr. Average of .76"
H&N Baracuda Match 21.14 gr. Average of .80"
Crosman 14.3 gr. Domed Average of .87"...cheapest pellet I have.
Benjamin 14.3 gr. HP Average of .96"
JSB Hades 15.69 gr. Average of 1.10'
JSB 18.1 gr. Average of 1.13"...this one really disappointed
H&N Power Copper 14.66 gr. Average of 1.25"

I have fired 27 groups with the Air Arms Diablo Field 16.0 gr. pellet and it is averaging .69". At a cost of $18/500 it will become my critter control pellet. The JSB Exact 15.89 gr. is close at .71" for 25 groups. It costs $20/500. I will buy whatever I get the best deal on

The cheapo Crosman pellet has performed well in both the Daystate and DAR. In the Daystate. it has averaged .89" at 50 yards (10 groups) and .35" at 25 yards. In the DAR, it gives me .46" average for 41 groups at 25 yards and 1.08" groups at 50 yards (only 5 groups as the DAR will not be my 50+ yard PCP gun so just tested for interest). Not bad for a pellet that costs $12/500 and about $8/500 on sale. It will become my plinking and fun pellet. When I catch the Crosman's on sale, I will get 20 tins.

I have a few more pellets to test; but if nothing else is better, I still am very pleased with PCP rifle performance. Having two medium priced pellets that yield consistent sub 3/4" is good enough. If I get really cheap, the Crosmans will hold under an inch at 50 yards.

I cannot get that kind of accuracy with affordable .22 LRs.

[chutesnreloads]

Any reason you've not tried the wadcutter pellets? If your gun likes them they can really perform for 25 yards and under.

[Norcal707]

Sure glad my Xisico Sentry 705-9K .22 likes the cheap Daisy PrecisionMax HP's. I can get headshots on ground squirrels at 50yds if the wind aint blowing and I've got something to rest on. Last bogo sale they had, I paid $6.13 per tin of 500 shipped so stocked up another 4000 rounds!

[dverna]

Any reason you've not tried the wadcutter pellets? If your gun likes them they can really perform for 25 yards and under.

I tried the RWS target pellets and shot two groups....pathetic. Stopped after those 10 shots. From what I have read, wadcutters do not shoot accurately past 25 yards and I wanted at least a 50 yard gun.

[DougGuy]

I posted this in the wrong thread but it fits both so...

I got a 25 caliber Benjamin Marauder rifle, I tweaked it for the most energy, and hit an old she coon square in the top of her forehead, right in the center of the "X" (lines drawn between eyes and ears) with a 37gr Eunjin pellet and she recoiled hard and waddled off. I thought WTH???? Found her a day later around the front of the house, the buzzards were dragging her out of the bushes. I looked at the spot on her head, it was soft and about the size of a nickel but there was no penetration. I was quite surprised to see a coon soak up that much of a hit to the head and still waddle off.

After a good long while tweaking and shopping, I ended up with a very high performance Cothran valve and a 1/4" transfer port which is sized to the bore volume all the way from the valve to the breech. Only gets about 6 shots on a 3,000psi fill but boy do they thump! I seriously doubt another coon or even a 'yote would get away from it with a head shot anywhere near the cranium.

That one was so much fun I invested in a Benjamin Marauder 22 caliber pistol and put the included shoulder stock on it. Scoped these are REALLY FUN!! Yes it's tweaked and the t-port drilled out some for more volume of air to the breech, and I use it for tree rat control around the garden. They get bold and quite destructive when the 'maters are ripe, between the Benjamin and the lifelike owl decoy, they didn't get ANY 'maters this year!

I debated the possibilities for an air supply and settled on a 4500lb SCBE tank that I get filled at the dive shop. Now that I have moved, I am 50mi from the dive shop and need to find another source of air. I can get quite a few 3,000psi fills for both Benjamins before the pressure drops to 3,000psi in the tank.

[dverna]

Thought I should give a recap of where things stand....and also thank NSB for his advice and help. I would like to indulge in a bit of thread drift as well....

NSB and I are at different ends of the political spectrum. I know he has taken criticism from some on this forum. Having opposite political views does not make the other person worthless, stupid or evil. It is easy to get our undies in a knot over what is happening to our country. Even easier to paint everyone who disagrees with the same brush....and we all lose when we do that. I gained a lot of respect for NSB as a man during this journey. He has been generous with his time, knowledge, and material resources. He never made me feel dumb...and I can be dumb...LOL. And NSB is a lot better shooter than I am. Thank you sir for helping this "Deplorable" learn not just about PCPs, but that we are all Americans and brothers in arms!

On to the gun stuff....

I have shot 168 groups at 50 yards with the Daystate. It is a fine rifle and it should be for $1000. With pellets that shot "decently" those 168 groups averaged .76". The gun has met my goal for a sub 1" platform. With pellets it "likes" I think I can get to .65" average group size for 25 groups. NSB can shoot in the .5" range so that puts into perspective what a 'real' shooter can do vs a hack. I have no regrets with the gun. Also want to share that Airguns of Arizona have been excellent to deal with on the issues I had with the gun....which were my fault.

The DAR has not had much use lately as the Daystate has me chasing that .5" goal before the snow flies....damn NSB...LOL. The DAR is an excellent gun for the money ($300). I have fired 25 groups at 50 yards and it is averaging .90". Last week the DAR lost air pressure....likely a bad seal...but I have not torn into it yet. The trigger is not great but it can be tuned if it bothers you. Information on the trigger is on the Gateway to Airguns site. With my very limited knowledge it seems one of the best buys out there if you want to "dip your toes in PCP's."

BTW the DAR was my first choice until that "bastard" NSB told me about the Daystate. I likely would have been happy enough with the DAR, but it is not in the same class. Like I said, I have no regrets getting the better rifle but if you are on a tight budget the DAR is a very good option.

[dverna]

Tried a new pellet because they were so cheap ($6.24/500) Crosman .22 Premier Hollow Point 14.3 gr.

I could not order more than 3-4 tins at a time and sometimes it would be a few days before Amazon would let me reorder. Ghosthawk came to my rescue and got me 10 tins....I cannot figure out how he did that. Anyway, at the price ($6.24/500) I decide to roll the dice.

A few days ago I got my original two orders, 4 tins for $26.44 & 3 tins at $19.83 delivered. Got out yesterday and shot a few groups. I had a quartering wind at 4-8 mph. Will do more testing when I get a calmer day.

At 25 yards, the DAR averaged .46" for 10 five shot groups with the smallest coming in at .27"
At 25 yards, the Daystate averaged .40" for 5 five shot groups with the smallest at .27"
At 50 yards, the Daystate averaged .77" for 5 five shot groups with the smallest at .64"

My gamble paid off. That accuracy is not bad for plinking or hunting out to 50 yards. The Crosman Domed pellet are a bit more accurate but almost twice the price. I will still use premium pellets in the Daystate for hunting as they are less affected by wind and are a bit more accurate.

I have 8 more tins ordered in addition to the 10 Ghosthawk acquired for me. Putting me at 25 tins (12.5k pellets) at a cost of $156. Three to four tank fills (@ $10 each) will be needed to fire them. That works out to about $200 for 12.5k shots. I will get at least another 8 tins if I can.

I did not do any pellet inspection or sorting. I plan on doing that to see if it matters. I am also going to try a light coating of Ballistol and another test with BLL. Even if there is no improvement in accuracy, it is reported that lubed pellets reduce barrel cleaning and it is simple enough to do.

The Daystate continues to shoot well. The DAR has a leak from the fill port. It holds pressure if I leave the tank connected so that was how I shot the groups yesterday. I will contact DAR to see if it is an easy fix I can handle to if I need to send it back.

[sparky45]

Will the Ballistol or BLL cause any "dieseling"?

[dverna]

Will the Ballistol or BLL cause any "dieseling"?

I know Ballistol is safe in small quantities. It is a recommended cleaner for air gun barrels.

BLL is likely not something the air gun community would know about and I have never seen it mentioned. I would be applying it very lightly, not like lubing a cast bullet.

I will report back on both trials and hope to get them done in a week or so.

[chutesnreloads]

Thanks for the update. I wouldn't expect dieseling to be an issue but am curious to see the results as far as accuracy and fouling.
I'm still considering ordering the pellet sizers from NOE to see if any improvement can be made on the almost
good enough pellets

[GhostHawk]

If I was to use BLL or thinned Alox on pellets I would sun cure them for a day to make sure all volatilizes have evaporated before firing them. With a smoke burner its not an issue.

And I have to admit, I've never tested it. I think I will be though.
If nothing else it will increase the size a smidge and lubricate the barrel. Both of which I think would be good for my rifles.

Would be interesting to hear what anyone else comes up with.

[dverna]

Got some Ballistol lubed pellets downrange today. Weather has not been great but today was decent. 5 MPH quartering wind and some gusting.

All testing in this post is with the 14.3 gr Crosman Premier HP's I got from Amazon on sale for $6.24/tin of 500. Range was 50 yards.

A total of eight - five shot groups were fired (200 pellets). All "fliers" were recorded...which spoiled some very good groups but that is how I test...real world. Most of you know it is not easy to maintain concentration and read the wind for 200 shots...at least it is not easy for me. So I started the testing today with what I thought would perform the worst while I was still "fresh".

First up were pellets from the tin with no lube. Ten groups averaged .81" Not too shabby for "el cheapos".

Next, were pellets I had lubed 5 days ago, I used 3 drops of Ballistol in a baggy with 50 pellets. They came in at .65". Nice consistent groups.

I decided to try a heavier amount of oil 6 drops for 50 pellets. The average for 10 groups was .87" and there were a few fliers. I wonder if "lube purge" is occurring???

The last was to add oil to bathroom tissue ( 2 - 2 ply squares) put it in the tin and swirl it around. That gave a coating between the light and heavy tested above. Those ten groups came it at .72".

Conclusions:
First, small amounts of Ballistol reduce group sizes with the CPHP pellet in my Daystate. I am very close to achieving the same accuracy with these bargain pellets as the high end pellets I have tested.

Second, Ballistol does not "diesel" at 230 bar operating pressures if used in reasonable quantities.

Third, it seems that too much of a good thing can send accuracy south.


Next steps:

It will be interesting to see if Ballistol improves accuracy of high quality pellets. I have enough Air Arms pellets to test that out.

I was going to try BLL but not sure at this point if it is worth the effort. Putting a bit of Ballistol in a tin of pellets is about as easy as it gets. I need to measure accurately as to much is not good.

I may try weight sorting pellets to see if I can reduce some of the fliers....but it may just be me...either not reading the wind well, or jerking the trigger if I sense the wind is changing.

Testing today was at 46*. Will Ballistol work in summer conditions when I do most of my plinking?

More testing needed. But heck...it is fun when holes are touching.

[NSB]

Very good report Don.

[chutesnreloads]

Nice work. Assuming these were at 50 yards? Likely some of the fliers were less than perfect pellets too. When conditions
are right you can often see the pellet flying down range. You can actually see the pellet flying straight or not.

[dverna]

Nice work. Assuming these were at 50 yards? Likely some of the fliers were less than perfect pellets too. When conditions
are right you can often see the pellet flying down range. You can actually see the pellet flying straight or not.

Good catch buddy....yes 50 yards. Added that to the post.

I am running out of time with deer season the middle of Nov. And weather is already getting iffy.

Plus next week my fiancé has surgery.

Wish I had got into PCP long ago. It is not for everyone, but I love accurate, cheap and effortless trigger time. It looks like my supply of components and .22’s will last a longer too!

The Daystate is worth every dime I have invested in it. At 50 yards, I have shot 213 five shot groups and it is averaging .76”. I expect that will improve as the barrel “shoots in”, and I get better at dealing with the wind.

I am too lazy to weight sort pellets for plinking. I will see how sorting affects accuracy for ****s and giggles...and get some “wallet groups” to impress my buddies. But the reality is 3/4” groups @ 50 yards, with out of the tin pellets, is a good place for this old man to be.

[chutesnreloads]

I would be thrilled with .75" at 50 yards with pellets. Though I was going to mke something happen weight sorting not long after getting the
multipump. The springer shoots the crow magnum pellets pretty well and after shooting a couple nice 5 shot groups with the pumper I order several tins. Of course the good groups went out the window and was trying to figure out what was happening because there would be some that shot into nice little groups. At first thought it was the new batch of pellets but no... the old batch did it too. So I shot a large group around 20-30
and interestingly there were two separate decent decent groups with some fliers and some really wild fliers. Was able to actually see some the wild ones flying in a circular trajectory. That's when I went and weighed pellets. About a .7 grain spread on 18.21 grain pellets.
Ah Ha..... so I sorted into highest and lowest .2 and came out with 3 weight groups.
Set up a target and nope all three groups still acting same and btw the springer still shooting unsorted pellets quite well.
There must be a reason a bit over half the pellets group well while the rest do not. Want to try sizing but still not ordered the sizer to try.
Isn't this a fun hobby?

[dverna]

I would be thrilled with .75" at 50 yards with pellets. Though I was going to mke something happen weight sorting not long after getting the
multipump. The springer shoots the crow magnum pellets pretty well and after shooting a couple nice 5 shot groups with the pumper I order several tins. Of course the good groups went out the window and was trying to figure out what was happening because there would be some that shot into nice little groups. At first thought it was the new batch of pellets but no... the old batch did it too. So I shot a large group around 20-30
and interestingly there were two separate decent decent groups with some fliers and some really wild fliers. Was able to actually see some the wild ones flying in a circular trajectory. That's when I went and weighed pellets. About a .7 grain spread on 18.21 grain pellets.
Ah Ha..... so I sorted into highest and lowest .2 and came out with 3 weight groups.
Set up a target and nope all three groups still acting same and btw the springer still shooting unsorted pellets quite well.
There must be a reason a bit over half the pellets group well while the rest do not. Want to try sizing but still not ordered the sizer to try.
Isn't this a fun hobby?

Don’t give up....!

My first groups with the Daystate were 1.5-4” at 50 yards...just sucked. I had a loose stock screw, had not cleaned the barrel, and had an iffy scope. Check those simple things out.

And wind has a dramatic affect with these light pellets. This not like shooting a centerfire rifle where misjudging wind speed by 5mph has minimal change in POI at 100 yards.

BTW, I have a sampler pack NSB sent me. If I had a crappy group I would stop at 5 shots...sometimes used 10-15 if a pellet showed potential. There are 18 different pellets you can test out. It is yours for the cost of shipping if you want it. Just send me a PM.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK ,,, there seems to be some misunderstanding on "Dieseling" in airguns.

A Spring Powered Air Gun Compresses Air behind the pellet as the piston is released. When you compress air it gets hotter. Springers can "Diesel" if a petroleum lube is present. And if that occurs generally the pellet will break the sound barrier and there will be a "Crack/Report" like a .22 LR.

If you fire the Felt Cleaning Pellets they will also break the sound barrier, and crack like a .22 LR.

A PCP Airgun Releases Compressed Air which gets colder when released. You might have noticed the Air being released from a tire when you pull the valve stem out is cold.

Since the air is getting colder during the release, It cannot Reach the "Flash Point" of the "Petroleum Product," if present,,, to ignite it.

Therefore "Dieseling" cannot occur in a PCP.

Hope this clears this up.

Randy

[sparky45]

Good to know Randy, thanks.

[Bmi48219]

I know nothing about modern air rifles but have started looking into them. I’ve watched several reviews, including a few about the Air Venturi Avenger rifle as it is priced in the range I’m willing to spend. Several reviews demonstrated consistent 1/2” groups @50 yards with NIB rifles.
Going through the posts in this thread I’ve seen little mention of tuning the propelling air pressure to achieve the best accuracy for a particular pellet, a practice most reviewers discuss at varying lengths. This seems as logical as tweaking powder charge weight in smokeless powder loads for the best results. I’d be interested in hearing members’ comments on the Air Venturi as a newbie’s first air rifle.

[sparky45]

The Air Venturi Avenger (the one I have) is fitted with (2) regulators to address that exact issue. One regulator to set max plenum pressure, and a second regulator to adjust shot pressure, i.e. velocity. Great air rifle. Here is a good video of setup and use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUpBxCbi5o8

[dverna]

I know nothing about modern air rifles but have started looking into them. I’ve watched several reviews, including a few about the Air Venturi Avenger rifle as it is priced in the range I’m willing to spend. Several reviews demonstrated consistent 1/2” groups @50 yards with NIB rifles.
Going through the posts in this thread I’ve seen little mention of tuning the propelling air pressure to achieve the best accuracy for a particular pellet, a practice most reviewers discuss at varying lengths. This seems as logical as tweaking powder charge weight in smokeless powder loads for the best results. I’d be interested in hearing members’ comments on the Air Venturi as a newbie’s first air rifle.

The Air Venturi is a good rifle for the price. I decided to go with the DAR because I wanted a quite gun and the DAR comes with a moderator. Adding a moderator to the AV will add about $150 to the cost. If a bit of noise is not a concern, then the AV is well worth looking at. There have been some reports of barrel droop and triggers not being that great but the trigger on my DAR is not great either. Realistically, expecting a "match" trigger on a gun at this price point is not reasonable...but if you get a good one that is a bonus.

I have not played with tuning air pressure to optimize accuracy but many folks do it. I have been lucky and found cheap pellets that shoot well in both air guns and have not gone down that rabbit hole yet.

Just a note about accuracy. Most claims should be taken with somewhere between a grain and pound of salt. I would reach out to Sparky45 for his real world numbers. A lot of folks dismiss "fliers". or bad groups "when they do not do their part"; and post great numbers. I have had groups with the Daystate from .2" to 1.3" at 50 yards using the same pellet. That pellet averaged .70" for 69 five shot groups. Shooting small groups with an air rifle is not easy....even a light breeze will spoil a well executed shot.

If you get the Avenger, please start a thread here so others can learn. Looking forward to your report.

[OS OK]

https://i.imgur.com/vrfUDUe.jpg

:bigsmyl2:...charlie...:bigsmyl2:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well done sir!

Randy

[dverna]

KILL THE WABBIT! KILL THE WABBIT!

The rich old guys use F-class guns and $20/box .22's. The poor old guys use air guns and $6.24/500 pellets.

The Wascally Wabbit stops laughing at us Elmer Fudds when either CONNECT!!! LOL!

[Racing]

Thought i´d chime in.
Have been around PCP´s for a while, and as such thought it´d be a neat thing with a project.
To "boost" so to say, why when i found this thread thought to myself that you guys might find of interest.

That said.
I just recently picked up a regular Hatsan BT-65 RB LW Elite kit for cheap. RB standing for "rear bolt", so nope.. no lever on this one. LW in turn for Lothar Walter barrel.

https://i.postimg.cc/K8NbgzRj/1.jpg

Elite "kit" brings a plastic case, a "bipod", a scope, sling and what not. A 25cal rifle in this case.
According to the seller hardly used, and seeing the stickers on it telling summer of 2020 manufacture.. go figure

https://i.postimg.cc/wxyscK5g/3.jpg

These guns are rather popular around here why i turned to my peers and asked what to do. Basically all of them told to lighten the hammer. Severly. So, i did. Skeleton cut it on my mill basically

https://i.postimg.cc/4N0VRfJK/2.jpg

..which made weight drop by approx 50%. As it turns out, they were right... So all for the better.

https://i.postimg.cc/FH26zXxz/4.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/J7v27B5m/5.jpg

Hm. Scopes has been mentioned. The rings that came with the gun made the damn thing stick out like a tower, so replaced that which put the scope WAY more inline with the bore. Came to revise that tho.. But for "now" it was all good i guess.

https://i.postimg.cc/nz6GxqbP/6.jpg

As far as hotroddin´ many, albeit far from all, many PCP´s work of a more or less massive valve. Again.. peers, who told that the valve pin needs swapped as does the spring for it and in turn the inlet valve needs modified.
FWIW, this is NOT rocket science!

https://i.postimg.cc/jj21d6mx/11.jpg

Then.. sometimes S just F up right. So there i was cutting into the original valve pin on a saturday when i of course overdid it and broke the thing.
What to do?
Well. I run sorts of a shop sporting lathes, mills...the whole 9.. so i stretched into the bin and thought to hell with it and dug out a piece of high end Alumec. To approx be compared to titanium grade 6.
Can you say overkill? Whatever... a VERY light and VERY hard and VERY stiff valve pin it got.. [smilie=b:

https://i.postimg.cc/y8djF1Pn/13.jpg

Yeah. The thing even came with a torch. But of course the stand/ring for that was a mile high too so.. In turn drilled and tapped for a small "bracket" to keep the wiring such that the pressure sensor was an easy to reach with my thumb at will.

[Racing]

https://i.postimg.cc/g2ChnmBx/15.jpg

Lothar Walter barrel might be, but the Hatsan BT-65 is no expensive gun and it shows.. the thing looked like it´d been installed during a fire.
So handed it some love at both ends AND as has already been touched upon.. a good clean. I thought.
Anyways.

https://i.postimg.cc/jj9RsS81/17.jpg

Yeah. Well. Again. Hotroddin´at its finest right? The valve outlet ports were said to be an issue, so i just took an endmill to ´em and done deal.
At this point.. here´s the deal. As you start pushing pellets much past 900fps they´re not all that anymore and as the idea here is for BOTH "power" and accuracy i tend to end up using so called slugs more than anything. Still debating which, but the mainstay is either 34 grain Knock outs or 31 grain Grizzlys. Both hollow points that break up REAL well on rodents.
Thing here is that my "go to" is an FX Impact in 25 cal (hey! i live in Sweden remember!) and an FX the Hatsan is surely not but.. accuracy is accuray and speed is speed no matter.
On that i am rather anal about keeping speeds sub sonic. Ie; 1050-1070fps does it. That way it becomes WAY simpler to keep the damn thing quiet...
But.
Slugs crave a different choke amount than does pellets no doubt and the LW barrel of that Hatsan is no doubt set up for pellets. So.. with slugs accuracy was so-so.
..and this is where it got ugly. I pushed a number of pellets and slugs both down the bore to quickly come to the conclusion that the choking of the barrel was set to like the last 10mm (approx 1/2") down the muzzle. Now. The Hatsan BT comes precut at 1/2"UNF at the muzzle AND it does carry a "lead" for simpler install of accesories.
So what i did was cut this lead away (approx 5mm), and turn a new such further back in on the lathe. No worries, there´s still AMPLE amounts of thread left..
Then i turned a brass plug to install on a regular piece of cleaning rod, applied some fine valve grinding compound and let it rip at the end of a drill.
As such an educated guess is that i removed like maybe 60-65% of the choke and done deal.
As it turns out, good move..
Slug gun indeed.

Make no mistake. A 22 or 25 or 30 cal slug gun can be used for accuracy work out to 300 and 400 yards, and TBH beyond that even. A pellet in turn will fall flat on its face at like 100...max.

https://i.postimg.cc/j2T05wyM/20.jpg

Shroud or moderator? Or both? Well, i run both on my Impact and that thing is deadly quiet. To the letter. All you hear is the hammer spring decompress as it fires - no BS.
The Hatsan.. i turn my own cans out of aluminium and these work rather well. Ditto then for the Hatsan right... As it turns out, the little things..
Friend just tossed his hedder wrap for his engine in the bin. Thought i´d try it so picked that up and wrapped the cans with, securing them with regular self tapping..
Lo n behold. Turns out that aluminium has a ring to it.. and that turned into a dead "thud" in wrapped edition so.. kept that :-P

https://i.postimg.cc/4yPMx8f3/22.jpg

Now. As an OPINION then.. Accuracy, as in repeatable behavior, take a regulator - which the BT-65 lacks. So picked a dirt cheap one up on e-bay from a guy in Lithuania. At 65$.. who cares, kind a..
Well. To make that thing seal the stock surfaces left by Hatsan does NOT suffice so.. lathe time. Again. That done though the actual valve works a million bux.
Didn´t fit worth a crap as i got it (to large diameter), but that was a simple remedy on the lathe (again).
But.
A regulator hands you repeated pressure (and in essence volume) for way more shots than not so equipped and the thing here is that most cheaper guns that lack them can be so equipped.

Before the install i was seeing an easy 1070fps on my LabRadar... having settled though i tend to keep it on the north side of 950.
1075fps at 34 grains.. that´s like 120 Joules just about. In other words basically on par with your regular 22LR..
Thing is though that with a reg power is very very simple to tune.

That said i´ve come to open up the actual valve seat diameter to 7mm flat.. i´ve cut the so called transfer port larger.. cut the opening in the barrel larger.. and so on. No GIANT steps but.. important such.
That done tuning is very much about a few simple things.
Pressure (or course) and then hammer spring tension (which is almost always adjustable) and then in turn valve "nut" depth.
Yes.
The hammer comes down on sorts of a "ram" on the valve pin end, and this is often threaded to be set at different heights. A chronograf is an ESSENTIAL tool fooling around with these three, make no mistake.
If power AND accuracy is what you´re after there´s no two ways about that.

https://i.postimg.cc/TwCqyBDB/24.jpg

Barrels.. yeah. Many bitch about the Q of the Hatsan barrels, hence why they´re ALSO sold with German made Lothar Walter barrels i guess. However, the LW barrels sure look like they were tossed on there in a hurry so.. i treated this one to a fresh crown and polished the "chamber" and forcing cone both.
Cleaning has been touched upon? Be adviced that as these imports reach US soil they´ve been treated not to rust on their crossing of the Atlantic or whatever and this crud NEEDS to be removed.
Have in mind that these are low power guns after all. As i wrote above i THOUGHT i cleaned mine out but..

[Racing]

https://i.postimg.cc/Dzq5fKXn/28.jpg

25cal jags are far apart around here so i turned my own. Simple enough..

https://i.postimg.cc/brvRRDFw/29.jpg

Yeah. On that... :bigsmyl2:
Nuff said.
NOW it´s clean!

https://i.postimg.cc/1tCwRwxQ/25.jpg

Alright. But? What about bullet jump, or lead? We debate that all the time with powder burners right, and FX even sells a "slug kit" for the Impact and what not.
Checked and sure enough.. the probe on the Hatsan, not even close. So.. again lathe time. Very simple mod, steel in case is real soft and i just drilled a 3,2mm hole i tapped M4 and shoved a screw in there which i turned down for the front most part of it. All good i guess, and as such..
The stock dimension of the probe is approx 69mm. I ended up using 72mm and that indeed presents the slug to the rifling BEFORE firing.
Yep.
Sure made for a difference!

So. What´s to be expected here? Is the gun "done"? No no no.. not by a long shot. Things has progressed in such a manner that the next step is to fab a decent working shroud for it.
Yep. Want it more quiet still, and shrouds DO work (that spring on the Impact remember?).
In turn, things has turned out well enough that that god awful synthetic stock needs to go. Wood it is.
Thing here is that the main use for it, and the Impact for what it´s worth, is rodent control at the shop. In a few weeks we´re talking 44 of them, some of them the damn size of minor cats!
Ok.
All good i guess. Accuracy? Will it deliver, this "el-cheapo" PCP gun?

https://i.postimg.cc/SRn8nRqz/26.jpg

Yeah well guys, you tell me. That there is two cylinders worth. Ie; 18 shots.

https://i.postimg.cc/bJBSfPbY/27.jpg

That there in turn one cylinder. Ie; 9 shots.
So yeah. I´d say we´re on the right path at least. Head shots at rats at 25 to 50 yards, all day. You even blow mice out of the water at those distances.
But.. of course we´re aiming further.

This IS a project after all, and a rather fun such. Working on pneumatics isn´t the end of the world, and real world results on "our" guns very quick to verify. Chrono says it all.
Cans/silencers/moderators btw are REAL easy to fab for sub sonic guns. As PCP are not considered guns in most countries.. :p

Yep.
Rev the tools up n go i say!

[dverna]

Racing,
Very interesting read,

Curious as to the range those targets were shot at....figure 50 meters?

Also wondering if you cast slugs or buy them.

You guys across the big pond are way ahead on this stuff.

Btw, some states here have laws prohibiting suppressors even on air guns.....yes we are backward! Luckily, I live where they are legal, but I would never make one as some government jerk will think it is for one of my rimfires, and that is a felony. So, I wound up spending $150 to get one for my Daystate. Better safe than sorry.

[Racing]

Thx.
What i´m trying to get across is that to large part slugs, as they´re called, are the future on most counts.
FX in turn has spent, and spends, great deals of time evaluating and exploring this.
Point being that barrels choked for pellets are a different story from slug ones, and what i´m trying to say is that as a slug barrel needs less choke a pellet barrel can no doubt be transformed, even with hand tools.

On "back yard friendly" in turn. The less these things go "boom" the better in my book and moderators (to keep them apart) are a far cry from silencers for powder burners. For instance, i fill mine with regular Wettex rags (yes as in kitchen rags) to great effect and in turn the front end dimensions/thickness is such that should someone ever try using it on a powder burner it would burn and go boom both.

Truth be told though IMO you haven´t really tried PCP until you´ve shot an FX. Really. Or more to the point, a modern FX like the Wildcat, Crown, Impact or what not.
FX is FX so to say and they basically leave the rest of the pack behind. No, that is NOT saying rest of them are bad by any measure...
Having used a well surpressed Impact tho.. no turning back in my book.
Just look at Rick on YT using his to pinpoint shots with his 25cal at 400+ yards... Indeed, these guns are NO toys by any measure these days and indeed PCP hunting is massively on the rise.

As you can gather tho, as i write above, a 34grain slug that expands like no tomorrow at 1000+fps and a rat.. you do the math LOL
Sure gets the job done though.

[Racing]

On slugs btw.
Buy mine. JSB Knock Outs and H&N Grizzlys.
34 and 31 grains respectively.

[sparky45]

Great write-up Racing! Most don't have the resources you do (lathe/mill) so modifying a PCP isn't an option. I have a .22 PCP that I'm getting broke in and really want to use slugs, so I am interested in opening the choke to make it breathe easier. Again great write-up.

[dverna]

Racing,

I have read that some air gunners will have two barrels for their PCP's. One choked for pellets and another un-choked for slugs.

There are a few folks who hunt with air guns but of the hundreds of shooters I have met over the last 50 years none have used an air gun for anything larger than a rabbit. And I know of no one pushing past 100 yards even for punching paper. But things are changing. In Michigan we can hunt deer and bear with air guns! Not something I have any interest in doing BTW!

Last year I had an RWS springer I had not shot in years and now have two PCP rifles and just ordered two PCP pistols. The RWS was sold to a friend. I have gone from "dipping my toes" to at least "up to my knees" with PCP's. So far, they have exceeded my expectations wrt to accuracy.

[Racing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPAOSEa3SuU

Things indeed have evolved. Hunting with airguns is mainstay to some these days, and the power levels reached are nothing short of insane.
What´s more, to you guys, as airguns are not firearms be aware of the full auto Hatsan Blitz. Can be had in 30 caliber and fires at approx 1000rds/min.
Check youtube for that one too.

As accuracy is normally up on these PCP rifles many use even lower cal guns to hunt hogs for instance. A 120 Joule 25cal, that expands like crazy, and headshots are more the norm than anything.

So to state that there´s an "evolution" or even revolution going on is being rather to the point IMO. Can, and will, PCP guns replace powder burners?
Not by a long shot but they ARE an alternative, as can be readily seen.

Yep. Many keep two barrels. I fail to see the point though for MY needs as a slug gun does all i could ask, and then some really. For rodent control i´d even go as far as saying that a muffled 25cal is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered.
Just about silent, and thus can be used basically everywhere, accurate as hell and turns hunting rats and mice into a downright sport. A mouse on the move at 30 yards is a challenge to say the least.

But yeah. LOADS can be done to basic PCP´s to enhance their performance. Even the downright stockers benefit from tuning what´s there to be altered - with a chrono at hand.
Making them "air efficient" is half the fun in my book.

[Racing]

On the FX Impact then.
Mine is in 25 cal, as is the Hatsan in case. Impact of mine sure has seen a lot of "development" over time.

https://i.postimg.cc/qBnrLFjR/10.jpg

In essence they´re so accurate they´re damn laser beams. Really. Mine a rather early one, but no matter as it´s been upgraded beyond belief.

https://i.postimg.cc/P5qr24CR/15.jpg

One VERY worth while upgrade for the older guns is the "power plenum". These days these can be had at 72cc´s.. mine is an earlier 54cc one. Then again.. have yet another one i made myself installed to the regulator pressure port of yet another approx 65cc´s.. and they indeed DO work.
A "power plenum" makes for that less actual pressure is needed to reach a given power goal..
(Before anyone asks, the revolver in case is an old original Whitney Navy - in rather good shooting condition that i use every chance i get)

https://i.postimg.cc/V6bmtnXy/26.jpg

Mark the difference between a shroud and a silencer, per se. Hatsan for instance offer their guns with the so called "QE" system. Believe that stands for quiet energy and uses a factory shroud and moderator both - as a combined unit, and these DO make for a rather profound difference. Claims is a cut in noise of an easy 50%, and i for one can just attest to that. Shrouds alone make for a hell of a difference, where law is an issue.
Point being that the Hatsan QE guns are sold in the US too, and then as factory items. On that small diameter moderator, have moved away from those since. These days i make ´em out of 50-70mm diameter tubing, depending on application.

https://i.postimg.cc/L5tSCSyN/28.jpg

Indeed. The ammo i mainly use. IMO slugs is where it´s at and factory such isn´t an arm and a leg. A newcomer here is the Slovak ZAN brand, which i plan to check out shortly.
That said though LOADS is to be learned for the PCP industry from the blackpowder crowd as velocitys are about on par, but for some reason there´s always those that know "better".
Thus BS ideas like boat tail boolits are marketed as the hot thing ATM, which is of course just pure folly - and we KNOW it to be.
In short.. as usual stay wary as far as claims..
I´ll just stick to the chopped off rear ones for now, thank you very much..

https://i.postimg.cc/mgXs68wf/29.jpg

On moderators in turn. Yes, wrapping an aluminium can DOES work. Look whatever it may... (This one is at the end of the Impact )

[Racing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHH8Iftnc-E

One of the many many vids on the Hatsan Blitz. As it´s an airgun.. legal as full auto.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So Racing,,, are you the guy in the video with the 12 ga air rifle? Those slugs are well Sussed Out on the Casting and Reloading for Shotguns Forum at right here at Castboolits.com. They are 12 ga slugs known as Botfly Slugs that Leon/Blood Trail has hunted with extensively. In fact he shot a bear with one recently.

Petander in Finland has shot the 20 ga version and gotten some decent results.

The power is definitely there, it is just a matter of getting the accuracy up to snuff and repeatable. Powder Coating is definitely the way to go, and you should check your barrel for leading from the rounds you fired before you shot the PC'd ones. With a clean barrel those PC'd slugs should shoot great.

I was not at all ready for that first shot, and it didn't look like you were either! Stuck discharge valve?

Still 900 fps with a 500+ gr slug is not too shabby. We don't go much over about 1200-1300 fps in our shotguns.

Pretty awesome launcher you've got there.

Randy

[Racing]

No.
No i'm not the guy in the vids.

My focus when it comes to guns has come to be blackpowder such.
Rather involved, have to say, and part of gun club boards on the matter and what not.
For instance, hope to attend Creedmoors 150 year with my original Whitworth rifle come 2024.
So yeah, i spend WAY to much time on BP guns, my own n customers both.

Just happend to stumble onto the PCP world by chance really and one thing led to another on that count too.
My main appreciation of PCP guns being that we can basically use them any and everywhere around here as long as basics is taken into account when it comes to safety et al.
On paper, silencers are prohobited here too sans a permit but as most stock PCP guns sold sport both shrouds and moderators noone really cares anymore so.. we ALL use them - one way or another. Home brew or a DonnyFL or.. No matter. Law has been ruled to be revised as far as SILENCERS around here already where we're at so.. ( no permit needed). Mind you, a moderator is NOT a silencer. Two different things. Difference, to us, being that a moderator lacks any and all internal baffling.

If you approach this from a pragmatic perspective it stands to reason really.
Shooting your PCP in the garden or whatever, a relatively silent such makes that the folk next door couldn't care less. In other words, it's a win-win.

On that matter i scored a 700mm so called Superior Heavy liner for my Impact today, 25cal of course.
As stated FX has put a bit of effort into dwelling on the matter and has not only succeeded but have broken new ground doing so.
Rifling on these liners for instance is imprinted from the outside.
Ie; no cutting going on what so ever. In fact, these liners are delivered blank and fully polished within and THEN "rifled" from the outside by force from a wheel rolling down the length of the barrel in basically any config you wish for.
Rifling twist, depth and so forth set by CNC control.
Amazing if you think about it.

But yeah. That Superior Heavy liner is a so called slug liner so it's going to be extremely interesting to evaluate the differences vs the Mk1 barrel on there.
Which btw shoots slugs very well as is.

As for hunting with PCP guns across the line however, nah.
Not my cup of tea, albeit i guess YMMV. Me i'm to much of a traditionalist and will stick to the powder burners for that task thank you very much.

[Racing]

Btw.
I believe moderators to be legal in the US as well. Mark the difference, it´s an important one from a legal standpoint.
Many many PCP rifles these days are sold with either what´s known as a shroud or a moderator, or even both.
One of the biggest names when it comes to moderators is Donny FL and Donny FL can of course be found online. My guess, being all to aware that laws differ between states, is that them guys can clue you in if legal or not in YOUR state.

Apart from stock PCP´s being so equipped Donny FL sells their moderators across the world these days. Ie; they´re to be found anywhere.
In turn, if you think about it, it´d be a bit backwards if let´s say Hatsan can sell their shroud and moderator both equipped guns under their "QE" system but YOU wouldn´t be allowed to install a Donny FL on your rifle, that normally comes with a 1/2"UNF thread up front already from the factory.
Many, if not all, major manufacturers of PCP guns these days offer that option. My FX Impact for instance comes with a factory shroud, and that shroud works the same way a moderator does really.

Reason for bringing it up to debate, with that in mind that it MIGHT be state dependant, is what i put forth above. That noone loves the loud crack in your garden, and for the most part that´s what this is. "Garden guns", where many of them can be used for small game hunting too of course.
No matter.
Muffling that "crack" in essence makes everyone around more happy.

Also be aware that an airgun does normally not rule under the same laws as true firearms does. Know first hand that in most states an airgun isn´t even considered a firearm, and are thus not ruled under the laws of firearms.
But.
Again, i presume this to be dependant of which state you reside in? I guess.

Be aware that airgun moderators simply can not withstand being used on a "true" firearm. As such it´d fail, many a time big time. Hence why i make my own moderators with a mere 1mm front end material thickness out of low grade aluminium. Should you ever try that piece on a mere 22LR the thing´ll blow apart like there´s no tomorrow.
So.
Distinction between a moderator and a silencer. NOT the same thing.

[Racing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_s5nyRGMSQ

This is a Donny FL equipped gun. AFAI understand perfectly legal in most states in the US.

[dverna]

I have a Donny FL on my Daystate and it made a significant difference.

[chutesnreloads]

Thanks to all you enablers out there, I've now slipped into the dark PCP abyss. Should have known better than to associate with y'all,
lurking around this site got me to that nasty habit of casting lead et al,,,
Been meaning for a while to write a lengthy report on my discoveries with air power mostly for backyard pest control but also some fun.
Like many I started with the multi pumps and then spring piston. Never had a BB gun, Dad believed (I now believe rightly) that BB guns
weren't powerful enough to have the respect a gun should have especially from a little boy. I should add I now also don't believe BB guns
accurate enough to teach proper shooting skills but maybe its just me.
After a lot of research I settled on the Umarex Origin. Deciding factors were that since I feel a need to have a hand pump even if just for emergencies, then a pump would be part of the initial purchase. The Origin comes with a pump although now they can be had with the
rifle alone. The Origin is reputed to be hand pump "friendly" compared to other PCPs. Last and maybe most important, the Origin will
shoot slugs accurately which should boost its effective range considerably.
One of the biggest excuses for this decision was a couple yahoos on here "taunting" me into shooting pellets considerably further than one has any business shooting at critters. Remember my air guns are mainly for pest control. I already knew but confirmed that shooting pellets much farther than I can shoot in the backyard and actually hitting the aim point with the 1st shot is HIGHLY dependent on knowing the distance to target and making correct holdover or scope adjustment. This gets exponentially more important as range increases. I'm expecting that being able to shoot slugs with their higher BC's and at higher velocity than even a "magnum" springer can.... range estimation will be at least a
little less critical. It will be interesting to see how far shooting at targets for fun can get.
With only 50 shots through the rifle so far, I'll wait before writing any observations on it.

[dverna]

Thanks to all you enablers out there, I've now slipped into the dark PCP abyss. Should have known better than to associate with y'all,
lurking around this site got me to that nasty habit of casting lead et al,,,
Been meaning for a while to write a lengthy report on my discoveries with air power mostly for backyard pest control but also some fun.
Like many I started with the multi pumps and then spring piston. Never had a BB gun, Dad believed (I now believe rightly) that BB guns
weren't powerful enough to have the respect a gun should have especially from a little boy. I should add I now also don't believe BB guns
accurate enough to teach proper shooting skills but maybe its just me.
After a lot of research I settled on the Umarex Origin. Deciding factors were that since I feel a need to have a hand pump even if just for emergencies, then a pump would be part of the initial purchase. The Origin comes with a pump although now they can be had with the
rifle alone. The Origin is reputed to be hand pump "friendly" compared to other PCPs. Last and maybe most important, the Origin will
shoot slugs accurately which should boost its effective range considerably.
One of the biggest excuses for this decision was a couple yahoos on here "taunting" me into shooting pellets considerably further than one has any business shooting at critters. Remember my air guns are mainly for pest control. I already knew but confirmed that shooting pellets much farther than I can shoot in the backyard and actually hitting the aim point with the 1st shot is HIGHLY dependent on knowing the distance to target and making correct holdover or scope adjustment. This gets exponentially more important as range increases. I'm expecting that being able to shoot slugs with their higher BC's and at higher velocity than even a "magnum" springer can.... range estimation will be at least a
little less critical. It will be interesting to see how far shooting at targets for fun can get.
With only 50 shots through the rifle so far, I'll wait before writing any observations on it.

Great to hear we have another member going to the dark side...LOL

BTW, eradicating pests on my property will make range almost a non issue. I have a rangefinder and will know the range to any spot accurately enough by using a cheat sheet. But using pellets, I need to read the wind better than I can now. You will have an advantage using slugs.

Looking forward to your report!

[Racing]

Word of advice on that Umarex then, as any other of these guns...
Clean the barrel. Just trust me on this, clean the barrel. Use a jag and patches. YES, it does improve accuracy.
Also be aware that the more power you wring out of it, the more dirt will be deposited in the barrel. Ie; repeat as needed.

In turn.
Many of these guns have scope rails that are a joke. Make very sure your scope is installed in a stand fast manner. More common than you´d think this is off... and then ppl complain about lack of accuracy.

https://i.postimg.cc/1zhhmWMV/30.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/4xp25Xbn/31.jpg


I for one got around to fabricating a shroud for the BT-65. Dimension sensitive to say the least. Settled on a 20mm*1mm tube, and seeing the barrel is 15mm diameter it doesn´t really leave all that much volume to play with.
Out back i just turned a bushing out of some POM i had laying around, and up front i fabbed a more elaborate "elongator" piece with holes drilled for gas pressure to travel down the shroud.
Ended up shoving a piece of rag in there as well, and at the utmost rear 3pcs of 1,5mm holes to act as pressure escape.
Works.
What can i say?

[sparky45]

I for one would like to see a more detailed view of your " fabricated shroud for the BT-65". Should be adaptable to other guns as well.

[chutesnreloads]

Yes, Cleaned the barrel before firing a single pellet. Amazing the amount of crud in a new barrel.
After a full day with the Origin I can only say WOW! Really didn't know what I was missing out on. 1st of all the POWER. Expected some more
power than I was getting from my springers but not this much. The added velocity alone reveals a lot of why I had trouble with decent accuracy out to 50 yards. I never moved the target closer than 50 yards until I'd decided on which pellet I wanted to keep it zeroed for and at what distance.
Maybe I got lucky and received an extra powerful gun or maybe my chronograph is reading too high. If it is reading that high, I will be VERY disappointed on the power of my "magnum" springers. I'm doubting the chrony being wrong because its reading pretty much in the ball park
with my older chrony that had to be replaced and the velocities from the springers and multi pump are consistent with what I'd expect.
Had some expectations from watching a few videos and reading many posts but this thing exceeds my expectations. For example,
My slugs are shooting over 100 fps than the fastest slugs I saw on a video and my slugs are heavier than those.
Even with the hammer spring backed off 4 turns I'm recording higher velocities than I've seen reported. Want to do more testing to see how far I can back it off and keep good accuracy. Right now at 4 turns from full power, the Crosman Premiers are getting amazing groups....At 50 yards.
The trigger.... Make no mistake, I'm not calling it a great trigger....but compared to my other air rifle triggers.....WOW. Doubt I'll feel a need to adjust it from the factory settings. Only one close is my '70s vintage Benjamin but Lord knows how many pellets break in time it's had and when it was new, I was too young and ignorant to know what a good trigger was.
Last I will comment on how loud it is. With the hammer spring all the way in at full power is is pretty loud. Too loud even for my back yard, However, backed off 2 or more turns
It's surprisingly quiet. So quiet I thought there was some malfunction at first. But no, the chrony recorded the velocities and the groups on paper don't lie. There are mods that can be done to quiet it more but don't see a need for it.
I'll start a new thread to continue evaluating as I go. May as well add what I've learned with my springers and multi pump guns

[dverna]

Yes, Cleaned the barrel before firing a single pellet. Amazing the amount of crud in a new barrel.
After a full day with the Origin I can only say WOW! Really didn't know what I was missing out on. 1st of all the POWER. Expected some more
power than I was getting from my springers but not this much. The added velocity alone reveals a lot of why I had trouble with decent accuracy out to 50 yards. I never moved the target closer than 50 yards until I'd decided on which pellet I wanted to keep it zeroed for and at what distance.
Maybe I got lucky and received an extra powerful gun or maybe my chronograph is reading too high. If it is reading that high, I will be VERY disappointed on the power of my "magnum" springers. I'm doubting the chrony being wrong because its reading pretty much in the ball park
with my older chrony that had to be replaced and the velocities from the springers and multi pump are consistent with what I'd expect.
Had some expectations from watching a few videos and reading many posts but this thing exceeds my expectations. For example,
My slugs are shooting over 100 fps than the fastest slugs I saw on a video and my slugs are heavier than those.
Even with the hammer spring backed off 4 turns I'm recording higher velocities than I've seen reported. Want to do more testing to see how far I can back it off and keep good accuracy. Right now at 4 turns from full power, the Crosman Premiers are getting amazing groups....At 50 yards.
The trigger.... Make no mistake, I'm not calling it a great trigger....but compared to my other air rifle triggers.....WOW. Doubt I'll feel a need to adjust it from the factory settings. Only one close is my '70s vintage Benjamin but Lord knows how many pellets break in time it's had and when it was new, I was too young and ignorant to know what a good trigger was.
Last I will comment on how loud it is. With the hammer spring all the way in at full power is is pretty loud. Too loud even for my back yard, However, backed off 2 or more turns
It's surprisingly quiet. So quiet I thought there was some malfunction at first. But no, the chrony recorded the velocities and the groups on paper don't lie. There are mods that can be done to quiet it more but don't see a need for it.
I'll start a new thread to continue evaluating as I go. May as well add what I've learned with my springers and multi pump guns

Great write up. Looking forward to your thread on the Origin.

I have read a few reviews and it looks like a very good gun for the money. But it is always better to get a review form a user who had to pay their hard earned $$$ to get one.

Like you, I have been astounded by the performance of the cheap Crosman pellets in both my rifles. I need to spend over twice as much for premium pellets that are any better...I am shooting Crosman pellets for both plinking and hunting up to 50 yards. In the spring, I am going to do some 100 yards shooting for ****s and giggles.

Welcome to the Dark Side...LOL

[chutesnreloads]

I'm thrilled to finally have a gun that does shoot the Crosmans well. Will be taking my time writing up a review. One the things I detest when trying to do research for a purchase is weeding out worthless reviews. In particular these rave reviews how great such and such is and they only had the product less than 3 days. I've already found a lot to like,... time will tell how much and what the downsides are.

[Racing]

I for one would like to see a more detailed view of your " fabricated shroud for the BT-65". Should be adaptable to other guns as well.

Will do asap.
Right now down with the flu though so expect it to take a few days. I´ll be happy to pick it apart and snap a few shots. Tube in case btw is part of a microphone stand :lol: that i cut down!

On pellets then.
Pellets work great for what they´re intended for. Ie; target work.
Slugs however is a completely different animal and if we´re talking disposing of rodents and pests no doubt the way to go.
These hollowpoints break up like there´s no tomorrow, and what´s more handed what they crave from the gun are accurate as hell WELL beyond what a pellet will ever do as ranges open up.
Point being that albeit you´re getting rid of rats it´s still life.. why i for one at least think that it should be disposed of in a as humane manner possible.
In 25 cal at around 1000fps+ i´ve taken a few headshots with H&N Grizzlys as well as JSB so called knockouts. Simple truth is that there´s no head left.
Lights out, there and then. Just remember to keep it at sub sonic levels, as it becomes way way way more simple to keep the report down.

In turn. With a little time invested vs a chronograph the accuracy obtainable is such that you can nail a friggin mouse on the run @30 yards with ease.
The PCP guns, when with a decent barrel, are friggin laser beams IME.

[chutesnreloads]

Being capable of shooting slugs accurately was one of the two main deciding factors on getting the Origin. Got a tin of 23 grain H&N slugs when I got the rifle. Truthfully I've only shot a 3 shot group at 50 yards with them so far. They look promising and unquestionably have a considerably
flatter trajectory than either of the 20+ grain pellets I tried. Having said that, the rifle will still be primarily a back yard shooter with 30 yards about the max range. Squirrels are the primary targets and I like that pellets usually do not exit the animal and when they do are moving too slow to cause any damage. My next project will be seeing how much I can dial back the power. Really don't need more than 600-700 fps to get the job done. Right now, If I can dial it back that much, can only guess how many shots can be had from a fill. That will equal more fun shooting. What I need now is more trigger time to figure all this out

[Racing]

On request then.

First up tho..

https://i.postimg.cc/G3zXbTp5/32.jpg

On the quest for greater power most newcomers fiddle around with the hammer spring. These are almost always single spring setups, leading us to that many yank down on them so they approach coil bind.
This has a plethora of negatives, making the gun ways harder to cock just being one of them.
Better then to spend the time needed figuring out a dual spring setup. This will hand a way different progression, of which most are good. My gun for instance is rather simple to cock and still hits the hammer with authority.

https://i.postimg.cc/QMpqwHPS/35.jpg

A very simple (and it shows) and dirty "converter" out of regular aluminium. 1/2" UNF at both ends. One male and one female. Middle section, so to say, made to fit a piece of 20mm tubing WITH an o-ring shoved in there for good measure.

https://i.postimg.cc/G2djCbnR/36.jpg

Ditto for the other end of the tube. This is an offset setup in the end right, and while the barrel is of 15mm diameter that tube is 20*1 leaving us with a mere 18mm inside diameter = 1,5mm on each "side". Not enough for a shroud to work well.

https://i.postimg.cc/C5KHRJK6/37.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/SNJfqZ3n/38.jpg

So albeit it might look a little unorthodox it makes for a world of difference. Them short pieces of 20mm tubing basically just being short stumps to make the 28mm tube fit off center.

One thing i´m going to change is the rear seal. As much as it works, i guess, it still is a slip fit and i´d like an o-ring on that end too to be able to control "exhaust".

[dverna]

Racing, you do some amazing stuff.

Thanks for sharing your work. I for one do not have the talent to do what you can do, but I enjoy learning.

[Racing]

Thank you, and all to happy to.

Very long story...
At the shop of mine we´ve got an old homeless man that we´ve taken under our wings. He´s very aware that we shoot, and hunt, many of us and have taken an interest in it.
Thus often tags along for the range and what not.

Now. We ended up getting rats at the place, reasons for this are plentyfold, and this of course needs to be kept under control. So shooting pests has become sorts of a sport, and we indeed have shot many - seeing the rather limited area.

Now. Thus far i´ve lent Fredrik an old springer of mine, an early Mauser 300B, but that´s a 177cal gun so weak that it won´t really amount to c*ap as far as doing away with the rodents in case.

So. Browsing our "Craigs" i saw an add for an el-cheapo 22cal Artemis PR900W. If anything as entry level as they come..

https://i.postimg.cc/kX84R6Vn/1.jpg

22cal, good for me as that brings i get to keep my 25cal stuff to myself! :bigsmyl2: LOL
That said, it´s about christmas and.. yeah well. Seeing this thing was dirt cheap it makes for a perfect gift.

So went and picked it up. Complete with this generic "4*20" plastic *** scope. That was the first thing to go into the bin!

https://i.postimg.cc/8zpSkjMX/2.jpg

Ditto, as a wooden stock gun that there is just TO generic, TO boring. So.. will adress that by sanding it down and throwing some dye at it.
In turn, mods. Of course.

https://i.postimg.cc/tg7GPwrh/4.jpg

As always the adjustability of a PCP is imperative, and the basic idea here is for a 40-50J gun that he can use for the intended task at hand.
Now. In contrast to most these days these guns do NOT sport a 1/2"UNF thread up front. In fact in OEM form there´s a sorts of barrel weight with an added front sight, or whatever you wanna call it.
Barrel has been turned down to take that weight, and this to the tune of 10.00mm flat. So i turned an adapter, or whatever you wanna call it, to press fit dimensions.
Presto.. 1/2" UNF.. and you know what that brings :shock: :twisted:
With a moderator added out front.. D*MN this thing got quiet! :shock:
True. Not exactly the powerhouse the Impact of mine is but still...

As i had it apart i enlarged a few ports, the transfer port included, and where we started out at approx 360fps for the approx 26grain JSB´s.. with a few holes handled we were at least at 700fps.
No.
This one is not going to see a reg. No point.
These guns are SO basic there´s not even a hammer spring adjuster. Took to checking that out, and the design is such that the setup is about maxed out as is.

Now.
Thing here is, Fredrik has lived a rather hard life and now at age 65 joints as well as muscles are getting the better of him. This brings two "musts".
First up the little carbine must be light (read - in weight) and indeed this little thing is. To the point where.. no worries on that one.
Second up loading the thing must be easy, why hard hammer springs et al is plain out. He´s to be able to cock the thing after all.

https://i.postimg.cc/mgmGPBSL/3.jpg

Uhu. Very very simple to the build, but truth be told it´s all there.. and works as intended. Yet another "project gun"?
Nah. Not really. This one´ll be simple to put to point.

It WOULD be nice to hotrod the trigger setup for adjustability though. The scope i put on there btw is the one that came with the Hatsan BT-65. Works as well as anything for that small gun i guess.

Going to adress the barrel tomorrow. Hand it a decent crown and polish the chamber as well as throat. Both the "chamber"/cone and the crown are a damn joke! Then.. these have a rep for busting up the o-rings for the actual valve within the air tank.
The tank in itself is rather small at approx 100cc and the valve is an integral part of it. O-rings.. simple enough to replace, but i want to get the valve out of there to inspect, and adjust as needed, seeing the intended power goal here.

So?
in short yet another el-cheapo PCP gun that can sure be set to handle proper tasks at and around the house. Noise of it brought down.. noone´s gonna care that you use it as you see fit (within common sense of course).

In turn as i´ve got the barrel out come tomorrow i´ll also check and inspect barrel choke. As we´re aware.. slugs is the way to go when pesting and most of these guns are setup for pellets.. which is a no-good in that case.
Need be i´ll just dress that on the lathe too.

But general point here being that a nice, and well shooting, PCP gun can very WELL be an entry level such.. as long as you´re clued in and aware what you´re doing.
In all honesty 700fps is just about enough, to make them hollow points open up on impact, but.. rather safe than sorry why 800fps will simply feel better.
Might be they´re "just rats". I don´t care, if we´re to do away with them ethics comes No1..

[Racing]

On the same topic then..

https://i.postimg.cc/NGHBwjJT/8.jpg

Trigger isn´t really adjustable per se and i felt that the first stage was on the stiff side... Now, the trigger assy is simple enough so no harm no foul really. The sear, in picture, is what´s the heart of it all, of course.
Just replaced the stock spring with a way leaner one and presto..

https://i.postimg.cc/ncfZVfgW/9.jpg

The trigger blade in itself in turn sports a small allen grub screw to set creep, i guess. Thing is that it can be adjusted "both ways" so to say. Not necessarily just inwards as the trigger blade extends vs the sear in the manner it does.
Long story short tho, with a tad of effort a WAY more usable trigger. Two stage and with a now rather crisp break.

https://i.postimg.cc/xTGQcFS1/11.jpg

In all honesty both the chamber and crown was cut beyond critisism in my book. TALK about a hack job! Well.. this is where a lathe comes in handy i guess, and the difference at both ends is nothing short of profound.

Speaking of the chamber side... These guns have a rep of sporting a pellet probe that is on the short end, rendering that the skirt of the pellet kind of semi covers up the transfer port. Checked this gun today, and indeed..
With slugs however the dish at the rear of the bullet is way less why the slug seats the bit further in needed. Something to keep in mind i guess..

https://i.postimg.cc/bwzhbHzH/12.jpg

Here then the valve. Had heard horror stories of how hard these parts were to get out of the tube, no such thing in this case. Ramming the valve and the "separator" out of the tube was childs play.
Port of the valve i opened up to 5,5mm flat and in turn fabbed a fresh valve in itself. The stock thing being a brass unit that seals vs the aluminium housing which i did away with and used delrin instead.
Going to readress that even further i believe.

https://i.postimg.cc/26BRm0wm/13.jpg

Here in the order/manner to be installed into the tank/tube.

[Racing]

Yeah well, i´ll push forward then i guess.

https://i.postimg.cc/m2PjJtfp/14.jpg

Made a new valve pin and seal out of steel and delrin. Not the wisest of moves as it turns out at albeit the seal was of course installed pressure fit it simply wasn´t enough rendering the seal to "float" on the spindle.
C*ap in short.

https://i.postimg.cc/43WW70Dn/17.jpg

So next attempt was out of hardened steel and brass. A bearing bronze actually, called JM over here. Stock the Artemis uses a brass seal too.
That said these guns lack a seal between the spindle and the housing why i thought it´d be a good idea to add an o-ring.

https://i.postimg.cc/VLtMXMcw/16.jpg

..put the housing on the lathe and countersunk that hole.. adding a press fit "washer" to keep the thing in place.

https://i.postimg.cc/0yTkgtWM/18.jpg

Well, had to make that bronze seal do exactly that.. seal. So, valve grinding compound it is. Works wonders.

https://i.postimg.cc/Qt6vDC84/20.jpg

So yeah. High performance valve for an Artemis, certainly is! Due time restraints i just got to fire two shots last night before leaving and it looks very very promising. (Inxs of 900fps right off the bat - no tuning what so ever, with 25cal Knock out slugs)
Will look into further mods tho..

https://i.postimg.cc/Px4v5G9F/22.jpg

Uhu. If ever i guess. One "drawback" to this gun is the very very limited tank volume. A mere 100cc´s. Tank is out of steel making that.. increasing that would be rather simple i guess.?
We´ll see where that touches down but any and all idea of a reg is certainly out. This will be a "on the pressure knee" gun.

https://i.postimg.cc/V66mn35h/23.jpg

Yep. In cleaned up mode. This i can´t recommend enough. The use of a 1/2"UNF up front and thus the ability to add a can makes for all the difference IMO.
ESPECIALLY so as power level goes up

[chutesnreloads]

Very interesting project. Makes me want to do more tinkering although I'm no where near your class of tinkerer.
I want to thank you for the warning of slugs fouling the bore of my Origin. Just a few shots is all it takes for substantial
fouling. They shoot rather well from a clean bore however.
Merry Christmas everyone!

[Racing]

Merry Christmas!

Well.

https://i.postimg.cc/kgf6qb2d/24.jpg

To make that o-ring setup for the valve pin seal..i kind of went nuts with it. So turned an entire "plate" to be bolted to the main body, this plate that sporting a "press fit" center kind of deal of approx 7/10mm..
O-ring in case a 3mm*2mm. Ie; 7mm outer. That valve pin spindle being 2,90mm approx... that no good. So what i did was turn the recess for the o-ring in the valve body slightly undersize at 6,7mm. Yep. You guessed it.. juuuuust the right slip fit for the spindle.
All good in short.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnBGNYP1/25.jpg

Then the other end of this thing. Now...
The inlet port is a mere 5mm stock. In turn there´s a plastic "guide" mounted to the end of the valve pin of 6mm diameter and i GUESS the idea here is to have that plastic doo-daa come up against the inlet port and at least.. shy it off.
Well.
Turned the inlet a true 6mm but seeing that, the dimensions of that "plug" is just silly why i´ll cut it severly come tomorrow. Idea being one of more ample volume for the actual valve to "breathe" from.
in turn.. that 6mm hole, as i turn the innards of that plug (again..dimensions are just daft) i´ll most likely drill more inlet holes as well. If nothing else for the difference in reaction time it might bring.

That said.

https://i.postimg.cc/43WW70Dn/17.jpg

This thing is driving me effin nuts. Now. Those of you in the loop.. get this. So the actual valve i turn from an old "bit" (in fact an E12 such for a 3/8" setup). In short, hardened steel - which i guess is all good.

Stock these things indeed use a brass sort of valve seat installed to the original valve pin. So.. at first i did too, just out of POM (plastic) and at that with a rather severe press fit.
Well.
No can do. 2 or 3 shots and the d*mn thing had moved on the spindle, which certainly is a nocando.

So.. fabbed one out of bearing bronze. Same deal after a few shots so.. i said to h*ll with it and did the exact same thing just with a 12/100mm press fit vs the valve pin. 12/100mm... now that´s a c*ap load, and then some.
I dunno what it is, if it´s the increased performance out of it but i´ll be dipped...you guessed it.
With a press fit of 12/100mm the THING STILL MOVES ON THE SPINDLE!!!! SAY WUUUUUT?!?

Only one conclusion. The setup of a brass seat vs the aluminium body (albeit anodized) simply isn´t cut for what i´m asking so what i´ll do is weld that valve pin up with some 306 with the TIG and turn that to a 45deg seat.
Then i guess i´ll bring an end mill out and chuck into the lathe and from thereon out just turn a PROPER valve seat out of delrin. Enough of this. Time to set this up per norms that we KNOW to work!
I´ve spent hrs at END trying to make this P*S idea of the chinese work. NO MORE, now we´re reverting to what we KNOW works.
I can appreciate that the original setup is cheap to fab n manufacture but gimme a break already!

So. With the chance of throwing a fit and lose it entirely... Enough. D*MN this thing has been close to drive me up the proverbial wall! I´m not lying if i state that i´ve had that pressure tank incl the fitting put together and taken apart like 15 times today!
ENOUGH!
The P*S chinese solution is simply OUT as power goes up for real. Period.

That being said i at least got to try a few shots vs the LabRadar of mine and this thing shows promise! Now please keep in mind that rather limited barrel length AND our intended performance goals.
Thing is, sans one yota of tuning.. we´ve already exceeded that. 950fps without even turning a screw as far as tuning. Yep.. jumped through the entire shortbus, out the other side and went DIRECTLY to lickin that pole...In short i guess the next task will be to make it "fuel efficient".

[ourway77]

bought everything I would need to shoot in my back yard with my son 4 PCP rifles tank compressor you name it and I bought it He passed away a year ago of a heart attack everything just sits now I will give it all to my grandson

[dverna]

bought everything I would need to shoot in my back yard with my son 4 PCP rifles tank compressor you name it and I bought it He passed away a year ago of a heart attack everything just sits now I will give it all to my grandson

Sorry for your loss. Shoot with your grandson if you can. It will be good for both of you.

[Racing]

Sorry for your loss.
Can´t but agree. Grab your grandson if and when you can.

[Racing]

Right.
So. Progress.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnBGNYP1/25.jpg

Sry. No fresh pic. What i ended up doing was tossing the stock solution/setup in the bin. The actual valve pin on these guns (It´s the same gun as the Diana Stormrider btw) isn´t overly large in any manner, so we´re good as far as that.
However.
As performance came to climb i came into trouble, and i went total full retard on it. So what i did was turn YET another valve pin, of stock dimensions apart from ONE.
I made the actual seat part 8,2mm diameter vs the stock thing 6,5mm. Read on....
Seeing that the valve "seal" was basically flopping around to hearts content as power increased.. enough already. Thus a solid valvepin out of hardened steel, but that also brought that i now needed a WAY more pliable actual seat on the valve body.
So.
Chucked the valve housing into the lathe, took out a 12mm end mill bit and fired away. Getting the thing to seal, seeing the pressures involved, is another matter.
I turned a separate valve seat out of POM/acetal plastic, and this with a pressure fit of 3/10 of a millimeter! Thus i turned a mandrel out of aluminium to be able to set the thing, so.. the seat in there, the mandrel in place and let the large vice at the shop of mine rip.
Indeed. New seat in place, and let me tell you.. it ain´t going ANYWHERE soon.

Now. To make fit follow form i again tossed that valve body onto the lathe and started to cut a 45deg angle to the seat. Checking my work as i went, knowing that the dimensions of the fresh valve pin was on par.
Indeed.
Soon enough we were good to go, and the actual hole in the seat had now grown from the stock approx 3,5mm to 6,5mm. That´s a rather massive increase in area, and thus flow capacity.
I assembled the valve, this time with a WAY softer "return" spring... no need for overly forces on that behalf as the pressures involved will make the thing seal no matter.
So.
At this point, golden. Into the tank the valve went, the "spacer" part with the pressure gauge outlet close after it. Then to shut the thing with the threaded end bit.
Mind you.
The "lid" for the valve, tossed that on the lathe too and both cut out the inner diameter of it as much as faith would have me, and in turn cutting off approx half of the threads of it.
Ie; a way more roomy such "space" before the valve.

At this point in turn i assembled the thing as noted and pressurised it. Yep. We were solid. Now with WAY larger openings, seeing the idea at hand here.
Cool enough.
So back together the receiver and barrel went, and onto the tank.. hammer installed and what not. Tho.. all i had at hand was a very very meek hammer spring setup but reasoned as such that it´d be enough to get me going at least.
Sure enough.
Back into the stock with the whole schabang and fired the LabRadar up. First go, 5 shots, told 910fps. Without touching a screw basically and with that VERY meek hammer spring setup.
Have already figured out a more "vivid" such and will install tomorrow.
Where we´re at the valve pin protrudes like 4mm atop the valve housing and to be honest i have no idea if that´s much or not but guess we´ll get at least part of the answer tomorrow as the fresh hammer spring setup is installed.
Wouldn´t be surprised if i get around 1000fps muzzle velocity.

Power though is nothing without control. As you´re very well aware slugs is where it´s at for me and most PCP (most airguns really - period) use choked barrels. This choking action is a good thing for pellets, many a times being "massive" as you check it out.
Put the barrel on a vice and shoved a couple of pellets and slugs both through there. Yes. Choked barrel, but not as massively so as on the Hatsan for instance. However.. stretched over a longer length of the barrel. I´d say like 20mm or so this time out (in contrast to the Lothar Walter barrel on the BT approx 10mm).
Knowing this then i sat down to fire the thing, with slugs. In doors though due the cold at the moment, which limits the thing to approx 20m within the shop.

As it turns out if i just did my part the thing will stack slugs at that range. Hm. Now, granted. 20 meters tells very little and i expect that to be of another level as ranges open up.
If and when so.. i´ll adress that choking action but for now.. that suffices and then some. Truly, in my book it really does.

In short we were at a point where this by now rather modified older series Artemis gun was performing like there´s no tomorrow.
Good times! :grin:
Performance goal then? Well. Already at 910 we´re into the 60 Joule range which is more then enough to cater to pest control. However..
From previous experience i´m all to well aware that them hollow points likes speed to open up to the best of their ability, and 1000fps is a very round n nice number.
That would OTOH with them shy of 26 grain JSB knock out slugs render approx 75 Joules which is WAY overkill for the intended task but.. know what?
Rather that than the opposite.

Then.

https://i.postimg.cc/9fRcL8DY/26.jpg

That "plastic" feel of the OEM stock just got to me. So out the sander came shod with 120 grit. Lo n behold. What WERE the folks at Artemis thinking?!
Beech wood.. and filled to the brim with plastic grain filler. Just LOOK what was underneath!

https://i.postimg.cc/pdwR4f8b/30.jpg

Uhu. Dyed with a tad of "dark oak" coupled with a few layers of "mahogony". Going to add a tad more of the latter, like that almost maroon feel it hands.

https://i.postimg.cc/bJ1phZHG/31.jpg

Here in different lighting. Yep. Layer upon layer of linseed/turpentine will now be added, until that piece of beech wood says "no more".
Being wet sanded, with the linseed, in between here and there. 400 grit for starters, 800 as we go..
REAL happy with this!
A entirely different gun came out the other end!

So. If i reach upon them 1000fps tomorrow, is that it?
No. As i do i´ll start something WAY harder and that´s to make the thing "fuel efficient". Ie; keep the approx 1000fps but at as a low amount of air digested i can get away with.

This el-cheapo lacks any and all hammer bounce control. Hatsan sports a very simple yet effective solution as far as that in as much of a sort of "cradled" and spring loaded piece of steel that "falls down" as the hammer comes rushing in such a manner it´ll stop the hammer from going backwards by any appreciable amount AFTER the shot has been fired.
In turn, going to fool around a bit with an o-ring installed to the part of the valve pin protruding from the valve housing. The part of the valve pin that the hammer smacks.
Reasoning as such that an o-ring of correct dimensions will "soft stop" the hammers interia... well. We´ll see.

For the day though, REAL happy with the outcome.

[Racing]

Ironed out some valve issues today.
Increased the pin protrude. Measured 3,5mm came to set it at 5,5mm. VAST difference in behavior and performance.
But.. feels like it´s not 100 consistent.
LabRadar doesn´t lie though.. got to believe the numbers i guess.

Came to reinstall the barrel band. Just, with that added press on fitting for the 1/2"UNF up front it sure didn´t fit as was anymore. So cut the absolute top off of it, leaving like two "claws". One on each side, and these grip the barrel just fine as you torq down on the small screw in the middle of the band.
As to if that barrel band will stay though, accuracy tests will tell.

Installed the more "narly" hammer spring setup. Yep. Did what was asked, no doubt. Sure gulps "fuel" though, and need to look into that.
Ditto, spent a little more time on the trigger and it annoys me that as i diminish creep i basically lose 1st stage. Will have to check into that.. i happen to like coming up on a distinct pressure point.

https://i.postimg.cc/MZgjLgWP/32.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/FzF3xNRR/37.jpg

Stock has now seen the first oil sanding. Think it comes out rather well, and CERTAINLY a ton better than was!

In turn. As this IS and will REMAIN a budget gun and that scope that was on there turned out to be trash (parallax adjustment dead) i instead opted for an older Tasco 6-24*40.
Looks the bill too i´d say.

[Racing]

Hope noone minds if i push on.

https://i.postimg.cc/NGHBwjJT/8.jpg

The trigger group on these gen1 guns ain´t really adjustable. Well, took a look at it and decided i´d install some well placed M3 grubscrews.. so to centerpunch and...
Us wary of heavy machinery have a nomer for Chinese material, we call it "chineseium" and that stuff is ALWAYS hardened til brittle.
You guess it. Hit it with the centerpunch and the thing broke i half.
Thank you very much.
Well now. I own an ac/dc TIG welder and know how to swing that so a few mins later not only was the sear back together, it had the 2,5mm hole in it too that i tapped for an M3 grub.
Presto. We were golden, and albeit this is by FAR a match trigger it still holds that being able to adjust sear vs hammer interaction goes a long way.
In turn, in contrast to the stock setup, this way i retained the first stage of the trigger pull. Now.. true.. that needs a spring and i´ll look into that as we go.
For now though, usable trigger.. CHECK! :bigsmyl2:

As i had the action apart i put the two hammer springs in the other way around, the softer one going in first - into a recess in the hammer, which sure cut down on hammer spring kinks. What i´m using ATM is a stock hammer spring for an FX Impact coupled with a way shorter generic one - to make up for the space within.
That said.. well, read on...

https://i.postimg.cc/jjCw3ybG/38.jpg

Yes. This el-cheapo PCP is coming along nicely and yes.. that there is my LabRadar. As you can see i replaced the scope once more, for a newer lit Tasco in 4-16*40, and that´ll fit the bill nicely.
A long range PCP this will never be and "outrunning" 16 powers is a tall order.
Ditto, as you can see, i opted to toss a small piece of Picatinny underneath there and indeed.. to go with the "absolute basic budget PCP" idea i torqed down a just as el-cheapo Harris bi-pod copy on there.
Seeing how light the gun is and placement of the bi-pod it comes to a VERY stable rest as you shoot it, let me tell ya.

https://i.postimg.cc/jqyW1spd/41.jpg

Uhu. That´s an overly large can, it´s for the Hatsan really but as it sports a 1/2"UNF industry standard thread.. yeah well. It sure takes the bark out of the gun, seeing we try our ideas mostly indoors.

https://i.postimg.cc/9FpDWLX6/42.jpg

TBH i´m even starting to find that dyed beech wood stock attractive. Traditional if ever..

https://i.postimg.cc/nL6zd5TD/44.jpg

There i was, starting to sight this thing in while the LabRadar handed me numbers along the 960-970fps mark. In my book that´s quite respectable for a 22 gun shooting 25,4 grain slugs out of a 400 something millimeter barrel.
In fact, question is if it hasn´t fit the bill even. A matter of judgement i guess, but it not only comes down to power. It certainly matters that the hollow point slugs used travel fast enough to expand on target and in turn it sure helps with an at least reasonable shot count.
Something that to an extent is an issue at that power level coupled with a mere 100cc´s worth of air tank. I´ll get to that though..

https://i.postimg.cc/4ywXTFvw/45.jpg

Indeed. "Chineseium". There i sat.. cocking the thing when i all of a sudden had the small bolt in my hand. Now.. that´s just plain wrong.
True. I´ve increased cocking force by quite a bit, but hello. We´re still talking by hand vs a bolt out of "steel". To hell with it though so lathe time and made me a fresh bolt out of SIS-2172 steel.
In short hindsight it might have been an idea to increase the threads from the stock M4 to M5.. but..
Anyways.
All good right?
More than you´ll ever imagine.

https://i.postimg.cc/c4Qb68Vy/46.jpg

I guess we´re all aware of the idea of nodes and antinodes and quite honest i´d prefer to just toss that thing. However it DOES keep the air tank part of the gun in the stock.
In stock form though, seeing the stuff i press fit on at the muzzle, it sure wouldn´t fit anymore so what i did was to cut the absolute top off of it.
This left me with like a couple of "claws" still, and as these clamp down as you tighten the screw between the barrel n tank it performs what the untouched part does still.
However!
A long standing truth of these guns is that the gen1 guns at least are machined wrong why the barrel and tank differs vs each other in angle. Ie; that barrel band will pull the barrel DOWN vs the tank, which will of course have an impact and imply all sorts of issues.
Then again.. there i was shooting right..

https://i.postimg.cc/63vhSkKJ/47.jpg

..and the truth is that it´s hard to argue with results. Now. Mind you. This particular gun sports a stock barrel that has seen some TLC no doubt, and time permitting will see even more.
The flyer in turn is on me and that there is all in all 20 shots fired at a distance of approx 20 meters inside using either JSB King heavys of 25,4 grains or JSB Knock out slugs of 25,4 grains at the tune of 960-970fps.
In short at the sunny side of 70 Joules. THAT is promising.. One strange thing is that how it prints on paper changed very little between the pellets and the slugs - which they almost always do at a greater span.

I guess we´ll sort this as weather permits and ranges can be opened up a bit. Check to see what happens after 50 meters plus..
None the less it´s hard to argue with results, and FOR a result!
This thing shoots on par with my Impact for the love of.. Hotrods at their finest i believe cause this thing well shoot on par with guns 5 times the cost without breaking a sweat.
Total investment thus far (i bought the gun used at approx 110€) comes in way under 200€! [smilie=1:
THAT`S a feat in my book. True. Been a bit of work, but it goes to show what can be done on a shoestring as long as you torq down on the correct bolts me thinks.

As you can gather i really can´t be but happy with the net result here.

One thing that i´ve come to regard as a drawback with this Artemis PR-900/ Diana Stromrider however is the mere lack of air tank volume.
At "hand her all the onions" i get to refuel the thing often, and a larger tank would sure remedy that.
Judgement call i guess cause i happen to like and enjoy what´s there in the pictures and the adoption of a say 400cc paintball tank with a reg would render that i´d have to cut into at least the fore end of the stock, and i´m not all to happy about that idea.
From a weight and weight distribution POW though we can afford that install.
The gun is featherweight as is so an added like 600-700 grams will amount to nothing.

Seeing where we´re at though i´ve got no complaints per se. It shoots lights out at anything at 20 meters and does so with the little authority a "mere" el-cheapo 22cal PCP gun can. 70 Joules goes a loooong way in this case and will certainly suffice, and then some, as far as the pests intended.

In short summary it stands here on its bi-pod getting handed layer after layer of linseed as is.. and will continue doing so until it´s filled up.

[Racing]

Moderator though.
The one currently on there is designed for the Hatsan BT-65 and kind of comes across as a friggin GIANT on the minescule little Artemis carbine.

https://i.postimg.cc/c4mBV7pH/49.jpg

So started turning the pts needed to fab a fresh one, just of WAY lesser diameter to make it go with the lines of the gun. Thus plan to use a sorts of baffling this time out, still such that it can´t safely be used on a powder burner though.
That recess there made with an end mill is to make sure the thing seats specified 90 deg vs the line of fire as we torq the piece down on the muzzle end.

https://i.postimg.cc/Qx0c687K/50.jpg

Yup. The other end of it. Drilled and tapped 1/2" UNF all the way through.. giving thought to installing a plug with a 7mm through hole though that threads into the adapter.

https://i.postimg.cc/wjrLpw06/51.jpg

The adapter carries a step that fits snug into the aluminium tube i´m using. 32mm*2. Ie; 28mm inside diameter, which i hope will be enough to work this thing into dead quiet.

Cause.. rats. "From a place you´ll never see, will come a sound you´ll never hear" :kidding:

[Racing]

https://i.postimg.cc/h48LSVvF/53.jpg

Right. Doing things yourself, the rewards are more than one. We´ve been on the topic of cans and this Artemis has made good use of the one i fabbed for the Hatsan gun, however.. the Hatsan wants it back right and the thing is in turn so large it friggin DWARFS the minescule little Artemis.
..which got me thinking...

https://i.postimg.cc/rpt47r3P/56.jpg

Cans of mine has thus far been exactly that. Silencers, as in for firearms, is considered way different why it is imperative to keep these builds such that their use on firearms is simply ruled out.
Plastic and rag innards make sure of that.

Dwarfs. Yeah. So i shrunk diameter from 55mm to 32, and that IS quite the leap. Cause see.. this time, baffle setup. But? Won´t that turn it into a silencer?
Nope. Baffles out of POM/acetal plastics sure won´t take the pressures, fire or heat.. In fact putting one of these on a firearm is downright dangerous.

Doing the calculations i came to rest on 6 chambers. Ie; 5 baffles. The 1st chamber being the largest then.

https://i.postimg.cc/SsF94KpN/57.jpg

To keep orifice diameters down things need to be concentric. Simple enough on a lathe with a dial indicator...
(Btw,yes. Those are genuine Speedline center bolt DMT wheels out of magnesium for racing use (merc in this case - a "valver" with boost)).

https://i.postimg.cc/PxWw5ktb/58.jpg

Final call?
Baffling works. That simple. What i´ve pulled off today has been the most generic setup imaginable and albeit the can it itself is loooooong (as i wanted to be able to play around) truth of the matter is that although diameter shrunk severly this Artemis at 70 Joules (inxs of 50 footpounds) is tamed to a...
*pfiff* on firing.. and a *KAKLTASCH* as the bullet strikes home 20 meters downrange indoors.

Impressed? Yes. Yes I am, and not only by the performance but also by the simplicity. Again. Keeping this a moderator is simple.. just use materials that rule powder burners out.
But truth of the matter is that this overly long moderator basically brings that a shroud is pointless. The gun becomes so silent it´s a friggin laughing matter. Really.

Thus.. time to reevaluate what´s on the Hatsan too. The Impact, no need as it´s about on par with this Artemis. Sounds of nothing.

[Racing]

https://i.postimg.cc/mk49PS6y/68.jpg

Loads has happened. Issue No1 by any means, of course, the bolt handle broke. Basically issue No1 with these early series 1 guns.
At first i just fabbed a fresh one to replace but found that the dimensions involved were not all that. So redid the M4 hole in the bolt to M5 and then went at it for a fresh handle.
Doing that i realized that the track for the bolt was simply to narrow, so mill time. Widened that to 6,8mm.. and this is not a stunt for the faint of heart.
Slop between the parts now made for a "drawer effect" why i also came to drill the opposite side of the receiver for a couple of M3 grub screws to be able to adjust clearances.
In all honesty.. gave serious thought to drilling the entire thing out to 10mm and simply turn a new bolt, using real bearing bronze..
But for another day..

As it turns out that stock pressure gauge on the gun is a liar beyond control. When i checked vs the calibrated gauge on my scuba tank.. 110bar on the tank = approx 160 bar on the gun and see, thus far i´ve been an idiot and just filled the thing according to the gauge on the gun.
In short?
Until i get the two scubas filled up tomorrow i have no IDEA of performance. That one.. to be continued.

https://i.postimg.cc/JhJtjkX6/72.jpg

That said the thing is starting to show some luster. Happy with that, so time for the german Scherell stock oil.

As it turns out the accuracy of this thing is just mindblowing with slugs since the barrel saw a tad of TLC. Going to look into that barrel even more, but seeing that i´ve started to play around with the idea of adopting a so called "buddy bottle" inc regulator intended for the paintball crowd.
Yes. They need to be replaced like every 5 yrs, but.. so what? They´re not an arm and a leg and as this thing shoots.. might as well as the lack of air tank volume IMO is the only thing holding the gun back anymore.
Or..
Not really as i keep the scubas like 20m away..

[Racing]

Guys.
Loads has happend.

https://i.postimg.cc/GhjGZq2W/73.jpg

First up though a picture of the two M3 grub screws added to take the slop out of the bolt as i widened the track for the bolt handle. Nothing fancy at all.

https://i.postimg.cc/N0KX2t4t/75.jpg

I weighed back n forth, ended up going SSG. Thing is that these rifles lack provision to adjust hammer spring pressure stock, and altering that is redesigning on a higher note than i wish.
So. "Trapped" the hammer spring instead, and seeing the dual spring setup of mine this actually works very well. Mind you, these ARE very cheap PCP rifles and i guess it has to show somewhere.
That end plug.. let´s just say that fit isn´t within the vocabulary so turned a fresh one that FITS. In turn, lacking in the pic is the rod guide - out back/rearwards on the gun.

https://i.postimg.cc/Jz6Jh0jK/74.jpg

Spring guide rod also brought that clearance was needed on the stock. Nothing fancy about that either, 5mins of Dremel work.
This led to all SORTS of positives!! I now had to readjust the sear and its release as all of a sudden stuff became repeatable, handing me a WAY WAY WAY better trigger. Due the poss of adjustment, i could all of a sudden play around with hammer spring preload, with all that brings from a both performance and practical POW.
..and so on. Saga just never stops..

https://i.postimg.cc/MHZ5NPM8/78.jpg

Right. So we like silent. Quiet is good. Scavenged me a piece of steel tubing to fab a shroud to go with the moderator and, in pic, fabbed a rear bung for that shroud tube out of POM/plastic. Yep. Even sports a sealing o-ring vs the tube and fit vs the barrel in turn is very very snug.

https://i.postimg.cc/QdV8hjGF/80.jpg

Up front this brought the fabrication of an adapter for... the adapter :veryconfu
Yep. That there "ridge"/wall is half the runnings of an o-ring groove... we´ll get to that.

https://i.postimg.cc/JhZGCRZb/81.jpg

Dimensions are such that i got away with a 20mm tube, or a 3/4" one if you wish. Just adjust measurements accordingly. Looking the part though. Mind you, YES i´ll get to finish it all.. one of these days :bigsmyl2:

https://i.postimg.cc/Kjqn3m91/82.jpg

Sry for the blurry pic, but you get the drift. What i did to compliment that front "wall" where the front sealing o-ring resides is to turn a shim with a sorts of ledge to it. This ledge that protruding vs the o-ring keeping the o-ring up against that wall of the steel adapter. Works a million bux.
The entire shroud is thus "floating" between it´s mounting point, not being able to "provide" anything sans making it go hush and in turn a tad more stiff.

https://i.postimg.cc/d3tfKtk3/83.jpg

Yeah. The shooters view of it all. IMO it looks about stock?

Anyways. Hollidays and what not right.. Well, back to normal and that brought i got my scubas filled.

PLEASE keep in mind that we´re talking a "low life" PR-900/Stormrider here ok guys? In about as cheap as a true PCP gets.
Knowing all to well what i had done to it i kept with the somewhat heavier 25,4 grain boolits... Also remember it´s a mere 22cal.

[Racing]

https://i.postimg.cc/QdwYdghK/85.jpg

Right. What´s there to add really? Highest recording of the day was 1024fps. I´m going to go after that, seeing the results are in, to see if i can get that to 1050-1070fps (to keep away from the wall)
That though brings that we´ve got as cheap a PCP rifle we could ever ask doing around the 80 Joule mark on a mere 460mm barrel. Not to shabby, and those numbers is playing with the big boys 25 cals with ease.

https://i.postimg.cc/s2JWNy6f/86.jpg

At those speeds though i started to experience the groups opening up with slugs. Seems i need to check that further, and i guess it comes down to barrel choke.
As such i saw an ad for a CR-600, which is the exact same rifle just Co2 powered, for which i made an offer. Reasoning as such.. spares..
That would also render a second barrel, one that could have its choke opened up and get dedicated for slugs.

https://i.postimg.cc/rs5R5krL/87.jpg

At like 880fps.. that´s what i use for pellets for this gun. Yep. Same weight as the slugs and indeed the difference on target is very slim. Peculiar enough.

This though led to a point where i really got to shoot the thing. Loads, indoor at the shop. All of a sudden i saw groups opening up even more.. Which turned out to be the barrel having come lose from the receiver. Hm. Three small M3 grub screws (stock).. i dunno about that.
Trying the puny little rifle out outside the shop though on rats, different matter. That old Tasco 4-16*40 simply didn´t cut it at low light.
So.

https://i.postimg.cc/2S8WQPS7/89.jpg

Yeah, it´s a copy but truth be told a VAST improvment on the Tasco. What´s more, at low light there IS a difference between 40mm and 50mm. Hands down.
Nah. Happy with that thus far and at that i was gifted one of them cheap China night visions to put on it out rear. Going to figure some sort of attachment out for it and take it from there.

https://i.postimg.cc/RVTfnM40/88.jpg

The Impact is running more of the real deal, albeit old by now. An ATN Aries...

[Racing]

https://i.postimg.cc/05TnqqQP/90.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/DzwdcvCd/91.jpg

Helped a customer with his brand spanking new Impact M3. He showed up on my step and gave me one of them Chinese made "nigh sight" screen kind of jobbies. Used, but none the less.
Fit was downright horrible and i´m NOT the guy that uses "tape" for any solution. HELL no.
Turned a sorts of adapter, i guess, out of plastic and thus the thing went on there like welded in place.

Works?
Yes, yes it does. I need to figure out how it all relates a bit though as in IR mode i´ve got an issue getting both the target and the crosshairs focused.
Guess it´s just a matter of reading the effin manual and invest some time.
Compact and to the point setup though.

Does it compare to my ATN on the Impact? Not even by a longshot. Got a Yuokon "Photon" too, going to re-check that out as well i believe. If nothing else it at least looks more like a conventional scope..

Rats. Nocturnal. Is what it is, so these aids to indeed help.

On that note, looking for the next project gun. Right now the toss is between the Artemis P15, the Hatsan Factor and the Aselkon MX-6 or MX-9.
The Hatsan being the only 25cal gun, rest of them are 22.

[clodhopper]

Good stuff.

[dverna]

Bump for alamogunr

[chutesnreloads]

!!!