Which Alloy for 577 Nitro?

[vandeusenps]

Guys, I recently purchased a double rifle in .577 NE, and would like to order a mold for cheap practice. With a bullet weight of 650 grains or so, what alloy would you recommend? I only buy 16:1 for my lever actions, but have two melting pots if I need to purchase another alloy type. Velocity will probably be in the 1400 to 1500 fps range.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[Goofy]

Have any idea what pressure that load might generate? 'Tis the answer to your question.

[elk hunter]

At those speeds you can use wheel weight metal. Off the top of my head I can't tell you what the exact alloy wheel weights are but, they work fine at those speeds. What case length and weight bullet is your rifle regulated for? In the true nitro guns the 2 3/4" guns generally shoot a 650 grain bullet and the 3" bullet weight is 750 grains. The older black powder era rifles in 2 3/4" used a 520-560 grain bullet and the 3" used 650 grain bullets. If your rifle is a full nitro gun, not black powder, you will probably have to up the speed a bit to get the barrels to shoot together.

Post some pictures.

[vandeusenps]

Have any idea what pressure that load might generate? 'Tis the answer to your question.

Hmm...good question. Max loads are about 40k, so maybe 20k to 30k?


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[Nobade]

16:1 paper patched should work great in that rifle up to any load you care to fire in it. And unless hunting buffalo would work on any game you wanted to use it on.

[vandeusenps]

At those speeds you can use wheel weight metal. Off the top of my head I can't tell you what the exact alloy wheel weights are but, they work fine at those speeds. What case length and weight bullet is your rifle regulated for? In the true nitro guns the 2 3/4" guns generally shoot a 650 grain bullet and the 3" bullet weight is 750 grains. The older black powder era rifles in 2 3/4" used a 520-560 grain bullet and the 3" used 650 grain bullets. If your rifle is a full nitro gun, not black powder, you will probably have to up the speed a bit to get the barrels to shoot together.

Post some pictures.

Elk Hunter, I don’t have access to wheel weights...what hardness is that? Would Lyman #2 be close?

My gun will be regulated for the full 3” load, 750 @ 2050 fps. I’ll probably try both 650 and 750 bullet weights to see which one regulates better, but not really looking for precise accuracy, just plinking loads.

Wish I could show pictures...just ordered it from Heym yesterday (89b Model), so it will be 9-12 months before I get it.


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[vandeusenps]

16:1 paper patched should work great in that rifle up to any load you care to fire in it. And unless hunting buffalo would work on any game you wanted to use it on.

Interesting...I tried paper patching a while ago and lost patience with it. Maybe I’ll give it another shot, still have all my paper and cutting tools


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[Mal Paso]

16 to 1 should be more than fine at that speed and pressure. Wheel Weights would just be cheaper because Tin is expensive.

[vandeusenps]

16 to 1 should be more than fine at that speed and pressure. Wheel Weights would just be cheaper because Tin is expensive.

Sounds good to me, I’ll give it a shot.


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[elk hunter]

Lyman #2 will probably work just fine.

If you don't already have it get yourself a copy of "Shooting The British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright. Lots of good information including loads.

You might also look at the "Accurate Loading" site. I haven't been on there in some time but there are lots of interesting people that shoot doubles there.

Funny, I've never considered a 577 as something to plink with. Are you intending to hunt with your rifle? If so I'll assume Africa is the destination and large animals the quarry. Elephant in the jess? Unfortunately you can't import the ivory into the U.S. any longer so perhaps a tuskless hunt. If you're not intending to hunt with it you will still place near the top in the "nice toys at the range" contest.

Brass can be hard to come by at times so you should probably start looking soon.

Good luck and again post some pictures when you can.

[Rick R]

I’d second the Accurate Reloading Forum as a suggestion. Being bolt gun trash I don’t reload for double rifles but I seem to remember a “rule of thumb” somebody posted for doubles where reduced loads would regulate to the sights properly. I seem to remember them using 5744 as the powder?

[vandeusenps]

Lyman #2 will probably work just fine.

If you don't already have it get yourself a copy of "Shooting The British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright. Lots of good information including loads.

You might also look at the "Accurate Loading" site. I haven't been on there in some time but there are lots of interesting people that shoot doubles there.

Funny, I've never considered a 577 as something to plink with. Are you intending to hunt with your rifle? If so I'll assume Africa is the destination and large animals the quarry. Elephant in the jess? Unfortunately you can't import the ivory into the U.S. any longer so perhaps a tuskless hunt. If you're not intending to hunt with it you will still place near the top in the "nice toys at the range" contest.

Brass can be hard to come by at times so you should probably start looking soon.

Good luck and again post some pictures when you can.

Elk, I do have a copy of Wright’s book, what a great book! I also have a copy of the woodleigh manual, which has lots of loads for double rifles.

Africa is definitely on the horizon. Buffalo for sure, and elephant when the bank accounts recover.

I’ve got dies, 20 pieces of brass, and some Woodleigh bullets, but at over 2 bucks a piece, I need some cast!


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[onelight]

That is going to be a neat gun :) we gonna need some pictures .

[vandeusenps]

That is going to be a neat gun :) we gonna need some pictures .

I agree, and I’ll post pics when it comes in. It’s going to be a long 9-12 months for sure!


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[Mal Paso]

I was next to a fellow at the range who was sighting in a 505 Gibbs at 7 yards for an elephant hunt. He said the elephant he was likely to draw would be a bad tempered one that was bothering a village and the encounter would be in heavy cover, up close and personal. He was built for the gun but it still knocked him back some.

[vandeusenps]

I was next to a fellow at the range who was sighting in a 505 Gibbs at 7 yards for an elephant hunt. He said the elephant he was likely to draw would be a bad tempered one that was bothering a village and the encounter would be in heavy cover, up close and personal. He was built for the gun but it still knocked him back some.

I can assure you, when I was shooting another guy’s 577 double to try it out, it would cause me to take a step back if I didn’t have my stance correct. About 8 full power rounds is enough per session.


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[flint45]

I use WW in my big bores it works fine a those velocity.

[elk hunter]

[QUOTE=vandeusenps;5159677]Elk, I do have a copy of Wright’s book, what a great book! I also have a copy of the woodleigh manual, which has lots of loads for double rifles.

Africa is definitely on the horizon. Buffalo for sure, and elephant when the bank accounts recover.

I’ve got dies, 20 pieces of brass, and some Woodleigh bullets, but at over 2 bucks a piece, I need some cast!

If you haven't already booked your hunt I can recommend Wighardt Vandergrip of Mowana Big Game hunting. http://www.mowanabiggame.com/ Super nice guy and the camps we stayed in 2015 were fabulous. Plus at that time his daily hunt fees were about half what the big name guys were getting. I haven't checked his current prices to compare to the others lately. If time and health allow we will hunt with him again.280768

[vandeusenps]

[QUOTE=vandeusenps;5159677]Elk, I do have a copy of Wright’s book, what a great book! I also have a copy of the woodleigh manual, which has lots of loads for double rifles.

Africa is definitely on the horizon. Buffalo for sure, and elephant when the bank accounts recover.

I’ve got dies, 20 pieces of brass, and some Woodleigh bullets, but at over 2 bucks a piece, I need some cast!

If you haven't already booked your hunt I can recommend Wighardt Vandergrip of Mowana Big Game hunting. http://www.mowanabiggame.com/ Super nice guy and the camps we stayed in 2015 were fabulous. Plus at that time his daily hunt fees were about half what the big name guys were getting. I haven't checked his current prices to compare to the others lately. If time and health allow we will hunt with him again.280768

Wow, great looking buff! And the fact that you used a hammer double is icing on the cake! I have to ask...what caliber, and what load did you use?

I’ve got a Holland Paradox with hammers, got her to shoot with solid fosbery slugs, now just need to order a hollow point mold, same as what she was originally regulated for.

Thanks for the info on the outfitter, I’ll check them out.


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[elk hunter]

The rifle is a Cogswell & Harrison 577 2 3/4" black powder express built in 1882 for a British Army Captain. My standard load is a Federal large rifle magnum primer, 64 grains of H-4198, 15 grains of dacron and a 540 grain cast bullet. In this case I used a bullet cast of linotype that weighed 525 grains. The first shot on the buffalo was an angled frontal at 20 yards that cut across the heart and lodged in the paunch. I put two more in the shoulder when he went down after running 30 yards. The rifle is super accurate, I've shot 6 shot groups at 100 yards that you can cover with the palm of your hand. Here's a picture of the bullet as cast, the recovered bullet and a 30 caliber for comparison. The recovered bullet had lost 7 grains in weight.

280792280793

[vandeusenps]

The rifle is a Cogswell & Harrison 577 2 3/4" black powder express built in 1882 for a British Army Captain. My standard load is a Federal large rifle magnum primer, 64 grains of H-4198, 15 grains of dacron and a 540 grain cast bullet. In this case I used a bullet cast of linotype that weighed 525 grains. The first shot on the buffalo was an angled frontal at 20 yards that cut across the heart and lodged in the paunch. I put two more in the shoulder when he went down after running 30 yards. The rifle is super accurate, I've shot 6 shot groups at 100 yards that you can cover with the palm of your hand. Here's a picture of the bullet as cast, the recovered bullet and a 30 caliber for comparison. The recovered bullet had lost 7 grains in weight.

280792280793

Very nice, any idea what velocity you were getting with that load? I did the math, and it appears that you are using close to the standard load of 40% H4198 of the black powder charge (6 dram?).

It’s amazing how little that bullet deformed after going through a buff.

What do you do for lube and sizing of those big bullets?


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[elk hunter]

Very nice, any idea what velocity you were getting with that load? I did the math, and it appears that you are using close to the standard load of 40% H4198 of the black powder charge (6 dram?).

It’s amazing how little that bullet deformed after going through a buff.

What do you do for lube and sizing of those big bullets?


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I've never put them across the chronograph but estimate the load at 1600 FPS.

I was amazed that it deformed rather than breaking up as it is cast of linotype and is harder than woodpecker lips.

I use the NRA 50/50 lube and size them to .590.

[Rick B]

Thanks for sharing the pictures and loading information. The Jones underlever hammer guns of the late 1890's were a true art form. Highly functional and reliable. Even to this day, the second tier makers rifles, can be found, reasonably priced. Custom mold makers like Tom at Accurate Molds can reproduce an original style mold, that can breathe new life into these rifles. Making them fun and affordable to shoot. Hunting with one is a true lifetime experience, never to be forgotten. elk hunter, Thanks for sharing the pictures and load info. vandeusenps, Accurate mold, 58-685L would be a good place to start.
Rick

[j4570]

The only one I shot was my fathers 577. It was originally Blackpowder but had been nitroproofed at some point. To the detriment of the chambers which were reamed out to accept a 20 gauge brass shell. This worked quite well once you got the case and bullet aligned and seated. I only remember him shooting blackpowder in it. I was a fairly young teenager and dying to shoot it. And he let me with a 25 lb bag of lead shot between it and my shoulder. I at least hit the target. He sold it some years later.

He shot straight linotype in his as well. Can't remember where he had to get it back in the early 80's but it wasn't easy to find in a small town. He might have actually convinced someone at a newspaper to sell him some.

He had a book with a high speed picture (common now I know) of what I think was a 577 with the back end deforming after exiting the muzzle. Does that sound familiar? That's why he got the linotype.

Nothing like the boom from a 577.

[DonHowe]

I have zero personal experience with the cartridge in question but do know that both pressures and velocities of big bore Brit cartridges are moderate. The ammunition had to be safe and extract easily anywhere around the globe.
Lyman #2 should do fine at full velocity (~2000fps). If in doubt you can water quench the bullets.
BTW, I would love the .577 NE experience if I didn't have to be concerned about detached retina. That meNs I have to content myself with the .577 Snider ancestor.