expansion and FPS to hardness thoughts

[archeryrob]

I am working on building a working load for 30-30 with 3031 and later 30.06 with 4227. Now, that being said I am looking for the most effective hunting round that will mushroom and kill. I will be using the NOE 311-184 GC with a good sized meplat nose. I am looking for a little more info before trying to make some ladder rounds to sling at paper over various ranges. and 150 might be my limit with 30-30 and 200 - 250 might be my limit 30.06. Although I have never shot at a deer past 130 to date.

What combination should be used?
- What FPS helps with the best expansion? I have seen people say 1600 and other 2000
- I was thinking 12 or maybe 16 bhn
- I will probably powder coat also. I have no issues shooting naked if leading is not an issue, but I would rather PC if it allows a softer alloy.

So, in your opinion, what combination of speed to hardness makes the best killing bullet?

[bluejay75]

Flat noses want to expand. If it’s not overly hard you’re going to get expansion down to 1200-1400 FPS. Test on jugs at 100 yards. It’s actually interesting to do. Shoot on a tarp. Will make finding Bullets easier. They don’t always end up in a jug.

[Tim357]

There's a pretty good article in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #3 re: cast bullet expansion

[Larry Gibson]

There are two considerations for a hunting bullet that you want good controlled expansion from. BHN is only one of the two considerations and really not the most important. The second and most important consideration is the malleability of the alloy. You want an alloy that will expand without shattering or cracking and with minimal sloughing off of the expansion peddles. Over the last years since '68 I have used numerous different 30 cal cast bullets in various cartridges for hunting. That includes numerous 30-30s and 30-06s.

I have come to mostly use the Lyman 311041 with a HP 3/16" deep cast of COWWs +2% tin then mixed 50/50 with pure lead. That gives an alloy of 97/1.5/1.5 with fully dressed bullets weighing 178 gr. That alloy has an excellent balance of antimony to tin and gives very good controlled expansion. The hunting bullets are cast and AC'd for 10+ days before anything is done with them. I GC and size .311 and lube with 2500+ these days. Best accuracy comes with the first 5 - 8 shots out of a clean barrel when pushed at 1900 - 2200+ fps. After that many rounds the fouling will cause accuracy to deteriorate. They make for excellent game bullets out to 200 yards where the velocity retention still allows expansion. Most all game is killed under 200 yards (most actually under 100 yards) and I figure if I haven't got the game in 5 - 8 shots i might as well go home and clean the rifle anyway.

Practice bullets are cast of the COW + 2% tin without then mixing with the lead. Those, when lubed with 2500+ or a quality NRA 50/50 lube can be shot all day w/o loss of accuracy.

The NOE 311-184-FN should do very well also. I suggest getting the 1/8" Forster HP tool to HP the bullets used for hunting.

Why the two different powders? IMR3031 will do very nicely in both cartridges. In the 30-06 I'd recommend a dacron filler. If both rifles have a 10" twist then best accuracy (as in best group size) will be at 1850 - 1950 fps. Acceptable hunting accuracy can be had a bit above that velocity but what is "acceptable" should be confirmed positively at the maximum range you will shoot a game animal. When pushing velocity what shoots well and "acceptable at 50 yards or even 100 yards many times will not be acceptable at 200 yards.

If the 30-30 is an original M94 Winchester (US made in New haven) it will have a 12" twist and 2000 fps will be very probable out of a 20" carbine and 2200 fps out of a 24-26' rifle. If you can find some LeveRevolution powder for use in the 30-30 it will give higher velocity at lower psi. It is what i use in the 30-30 now under the 311041 for hunting. However, the IMR3031 will suffice but just won't give the velocity in the 30-30, if a 12" twist barrel. The 30-06 will no doubt have a 10" twist so the 3031 will do very well in it.

[archeryrob]

Thanks,

Larry, I was not going to use the 3031 for 30.06 as in Gordon reloading SW it looked to need a lot more and still burning coming out the end of the barrel.

Tim, I got Version 4 but the huge lead physics section started boring the hell out of me. I don;t want all the molecule explanation and crystallization. Just tell me what to use and when and why.

I plan to use WW stuff I have but that is around an 11 and from what Larry said he sounds like he is using a 8 or 9 or similar to 30:1. If I had to buy some I was planning on getting 20:1 or 16:1 but 30:1 is cheaper and softer. I'll also be powder coating and using a GC to reduce any leading problems.