Fluxing - head spinning

[Cast10]

Wow! Tons of good info and I”ve been sifting thru it all! LOL.

My first melt (smelt) is complete and I’m fixing to begin my test casts. That said, I”ll share what my first experience smelting (melting).

All SOWW and were very dirty. I’ll cut it short. Had about 40 lbs in a Dutch oven and once all lead was liquidus (ah, another big word), I added a healthy cap of fresh sawdust from a local shop. I allowed it to ‘blacken’ and I begin working it into the mix and stirring. The dross/dirt, etc. began floating and I was scooping it out on the reg. I only added flux (sawdust) twice during this melt and low and behold it all yielded nice ingots! Thanks to all for the great sticky about FLUXING.

As I begin casting, I’ll only use beeswax pastilles to reduce. I have a bottom pour. Thanks again to all!

[pastera]

I usually don't even wait for it to char - the volatiles in the wood work as flux also

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

When I am fluxing COWW that I am smelting (usually a 40 lb pot full), I use a couple handfulls of sawdust (about a 1 inch layer). I add it before I remove the clips. Then I stir the saw dust and clips. The clips are then removed and there is NO lead alloy stuck to the clips (there would be, if I didn't flux with sawdust). Then I flux with a couple handfulls of saw dust again, stir and remove the lightweight black char.

[44MAG#1]

The very first thing to do is to step back, take a deep breath and calm down. Then proceed to do what WORKS for YOU.
If what you are doing works for you then do it. If you are now overthinking fluxing you will be on the road to more turmoil as you proceed.
I am not trying to be mean, condecending or uncaring like some have accused me of being but just trying to be honest and straightforward in this. Bullet casting isn't hard to do. Even to get high quality bullets isnt hard to do. You will run into problems along the way but most are easy worked out.

[Conditor22]

I've found that when fluxing. using both pine sawdust AND wax works better than using just one or the other alone.

When smelting COWW or range scrap the metal is much cleaner when I also use wax to flux.

When I use only sawdust I end up with large granules on top, adding wax will reduce the granules down to fine sand.

https://i.imgur.com/GBNyd0p.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jD1eqye.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TosuzqM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GuYWkDK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XnGx1hQ.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/iVILHTi.jpg

[waksupi]

Just stirring it with a dry stick works better to get down under the surface, where you need it.

[Cast10]

I usually don't even wait for it to char - the volatiles in the wood work as flux also

I’ll remember this and give it a try. I let it blacken for the most part.

[Cast10]

Well said! Thanks for that 44mag! I will remember this for sure! It all seemed to work out, but the little tips always help make it easier.

[Cast10]

I've found that when fluxing. using both pine sawdust AND wax works better than using just one or the other alone.

When smelting COWW or range scrap the metal is much cleaner when I also use wax to flux.

When I use only sawdust I end up with large granules on top, adding wax will reduce the granules down to fine sand.

https://i.imgur.com/GBNyd0p.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jD1eqye.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TosuzqM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GuYWkDK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XnGx1hQ.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/iVILHTi.jpg

I saw what you mean. I took another spoon and got off what I could. I’ll remember; sawdust then finish with wax!

[Cast10]

Just stirring it with a dry stick works better to get down under the surface, where you need it.
I actually forgot to use my wood sticks. I had a handful of paint stirring sticks and forgot to use them!!!!

[gwpercle]

Wow! Tons of good info and I”ve been sifting thru it all! LOL.

My first melt (smelt) is complete and I’m fixing to begin my test casts. That said, I”ll share what my first experience smelting (melting).

All SOWW and were very dirty. I’ll cut it short. Had about 40 lbs in a Dutch oven and once all lead was liquidus (ah, another big word), I added a healthy cap of fresh sawdust from a local shop. I allowed it to ‘blacken’ and I begin working it into the mix and stirring. The dross/dirt, etc. began floating and I was scooping it out on the reg. I only added flux (sawdust) twice during this melt and low and behold it all yielded nice ingots! Thanks to all for the great sticky about FLUXING.

As I begin casting, I’ll only use beeswax pastilles to reduce. I have a bottom pour. Thanks again to all!

You learned well . flux with sawdust / pencil sharpener shavings and another flux with beeswx covers all the bases .
Just because I have it ... I do a third ( small amount ) flux with Marvelux ...probably not really necessary but when I was learning ... "Ingot to Target " Glen Fryexell said to use it so I bought a big jar ... it works but works better along with with wood shavings and beeswax fluxing .
Stir things with a little wood paddle stir stick ...it adds some carbon and good stirring is the secrete to good fluxing . Stir the wood shavings / sawdust into the melt there are things in wood besides the carbon and it helps speed the process . I find several Small fluxings , stirred in well , better than a big pile of sawdust . But do what feels right for you ... no right no wrong ... just develop your own technique .
Keep On Keepin On
Gary

[GregLaROCHE]

I don’t put as much effort or propane into melting to make ingots as I used to. I only use sawdust now and save the bee’s wax for the casting pot after a good fluxing of sawdust.

[lightman]

It sounds like you have it figured out. Good job!

I flux with sawdust a few times when smelting and use a wax type substance in my casting pot.

[ShooterAZ]

I use sawdust and paraffin wax when smelting, and beeswax only in the casting pot.

[Cast10]

All good comments. Thank you all. I’m taking notes!

[Capt Keith]

I’m following as a casting nubie, and have a question. Does it matter what kind of sawdust? Or can I just empty my chopsaw and use it?

[BNE]

I’m following as a casting nubie, and have a question. Does it matter what kind of sawdust? Or can I just empty my chopsaw and use it?
Fluxing is one of those topics that brings out a ton of opinions and usually starts an argument!

I say the stuff from your chop saw will work fine. Try it. (That’s what I do.)

[Mk42gunner]

I actually forgot to use my wood sticks. I had a handful of paint stirring sticks and forgot to use them!!!!
I'm even more frugal (sounds so much better than cheap) than that. I use sticks I pick up from the trees in the yard.

Works well and accomplishes two things at once.

Robert

[Cast10]

I visited a local shop that builds portable buildings. They have a bag collection system and use lots of Pine and Whitewood and plywood. I didn’t visit the bag system on the table saws! I was welcomed to dig in and I did. All good and dry too!

[OS OK]

When you get to casting, save the dross you pull from the lead you just made...it's obviously pretty clean so the dross is oxidized tin & antimony & traces of other stuff.
I use wax in the pour pot to stir the oxidized metals back as best I can, then pull the dross, drop it in a coffee can or appropriate container and then re-seal the surface with another generous button of wax. That'll seal the pot surface from oxidation as you cast, it forms a nice carbon black crust in the pot on the surface of the melt.

Don't be dropping your sprues in the pot as you cast or it'll break your carbon seal and the melt will oxidize much quicker. Save them till your ready for a break and refill of the pot.

After enough casting you'll accumulate a lot of dross, tin & antimony rich dross...

https://i.imgur.com/FIbxAlS.jpg

When you make another ingot pot of lead, put the bucket of dross in with the lead your processing, you will be amazed at how much of the pour pot dross you reclaim & it'll sweeten the tin percentage a bit also.

[GregLaROCHE]

I’m following as a casting nubie, and have a question. Does it matter what kind of sawdust? Or can I just empty my chopsaw and use it?

Sawdust from your chopsaw should be fine. Just make sure it’s dry. I’ve even used Quaker Oats when I didn’t have sawdust once.

[bluebird66]

Thanks for the information.

[Cast10]

When you get to casting, save the dross you pull from the lead you just made...it's obviously pretty clean so the dross is oxidized tin & antimony & traces of other stuff.
I use wax in the pour pot to stir the oxidized metals back as best I can, then pull the dross, drop it in a coffee can or appropriate container and then re-seal the surface with another generous button of wax. That'll seal the pot surface from oxidation as you cast, it forms a nice carbon black crust in the pot on the surface of the melt.

Don't be dropping your sprues in the pot as you cast or it'll break your carbon seal and the melt will oxidize much quicker. Save them till your ready for a break and refill of the pot.

After enough casting you'll accumulate a lot of dross, tin & antimony rich dross...

https://i.imgur.com/FIbxAlS.jpg

When you make another ingot pot of lead, put the bucket of dross in with the lead your processing, you will be amazed at how much of the pour pot dross you reclaim & it'll sweeten the tin percentage a bit also.

Great idea! I was wondering what I would do with it. Thanks!

[44MAG#1]

I would say if his head was doing 10 RPM when he first posted it is now doing 100 RPM.
Occam's Razor.

[Ural Driver]

Some great info for us newbies. Don't remember who told me, but I use one of those wooden paint stir sticks. I grab several every time I go by a paint counter and keep a good supply on hand. :lovebooli

[country gent]

as important as the fluxing is how you stir it when fluxing, Working the melt up and thru itself then down and thru itself scraping the sides and bottom.

[Cast10]

I would say if his head was doing 10 RPM when he first posted it is now doing 100 RPM.
Occam's Razor.

More like 2500!

[B R Shooter]

I only use bees wax to flux. I can't see the logic of using saw dust and mix that into the pot, when the idea is to get as much foreign matter out in the first place. But others do it, just I don't. Country gent's post above is important. Once your flux, you need to not just stir, but to scoop from below, raise to the top, let it mix again. Scrape sides, let all the foreign stuff come to the top.

[crackers]

I put the range scrap in the pot, skim it and pour the mold. What the flux?

[Jsm180]

If your head isn't spinning fast enough yet, this should run the r's up some.

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/simplefluxing.htm

[Cast10]

If your head isn't spinning fast enough yet, this should run the r's up some.

http://www.sixguns.com/crew/simplefluxing.htm

Yeah! I read this and it’s “deer in headlights”!

[whisler]

Clear as glass to me but then I studied a lot of chemistry.

[waksupi]

There is a reason to use a stick to stir the lead. Do you really think that you can overcome the specific gravity of lead, and stir sawdust appreciably under the surface of the melt? If you could "capture" the sawdust and force it to the bottom, it would work, but it is just extra work to come up with something to do it with. Sawdust will capture what floats to the top, but that is usually your tin, which you have gone to pains to put INTO the alloy.

Once the melt is clean and you are ready to cast, a handful of kitty litter on top of the melt will help maintain pot temperature, and prevent oxidation that people usually skim off.

[Land Owner]

^^^^^^^

Sir, I just had the experience of "bubbling up" from within my 20# pot. I poured liquid alloy (melted spru) from an adjacent 10# pot of the same alloy into a partially depleted 20# pot. The surface 1/2" depth of the receiving 20# pot was smoldering and blackened sawdust, which, after nearly filling, I stirred around and scooped the dross off.

A quarter sized portion of the clean surface of the nearly full 20# pot began a slow "bubbling" as something "boiled up" like a spring will "well up" in a still water course. I had never seen "bubbling" in a melted alloy before and it was disturbing. Turned out, after more stirring, it was still burning sawdust that had been "sunk" by the added melt and bubbles of smoke were rising out of the depths of the 20# pot.

[oley55]

I don’t put as much effort or propane into melting to make ingots as I used to. I only use sawdust now and save the bee’s wax for the casting pot after a good fluxing of sawdust.

Thinking how that works, less propane so you must be rubbing sticks together, but that seems like a lot more effort! :kidding:

[waksupi]

^^^^^^^

Sir, I just had the experience of "bubbling up" from within my 20# pot. I poured liquid alloy (melted spru) from an adjacent 10# pot of the same alloy into a partially depleted 20# pot. The surface 1/2" depth of the receiving 20# pot was smoldering and blackened sawdust, which, after nearly filling, I stirred around and scooped the dross off.

A quarter sized portion of the clean surface of the nearly full 20# pot began a slow "bubbling" as something "boiled up" like a spring will "well up" in a still water course. I had never seen "bubbling" in a melted alloy before and it was disturbing. Turned out, after more stirring, it was still burning sawdust that had been "sunk" by the added melt and bubbles of smoke were rising out of the depths of the 20# pot.

I would bet some stuck to the side of the pot when the level was low. As for the bubbling, where did it come from? You had a hot pot, and were pouring from a hot pot. There should have been no moisture present. Maybe some resin boiling out of the sawdust?

[Land Owner]

I got the impression that it was smoke from still burning sawdust, but it could have been resin. Hadn't thought of that. Was plenty of it in the Cedar sawdust to begin with. Definitely not moisture. Hot pot to hot pot.

[Capt Keith]

Just stirring it with a dry stick works better to get down under the surface, where you need it.

Doesn’t it burn the stick?

[Capt Keith]

Thanks Greg!

[CoolHandMoss]

I’m following as a casting nubie, and have a question. Does it matter what kind of sawdust? Or can I just empty my chopsaw and use it?

I am no pro but I would suggest tending toward dust on the finer side and avoid walnut.

[Capt Keith]

I am no pro but I would suggest tending toward dust on the finer side and avoid walnut.

Thanks Moss. How about if the sawdust is from treated wood, or the wood was painted? Any issues?

[waksupi]

Doesn’t it burn the stick?

It does char off a bit at a time.

[waksupi]

Thanks Moss. How about if the sawdust is from treated wood, or the wood was painted? Any issues?

I would definitely avoid either one, especially the treated wood.

[onelight]

Some treated wood can give off some nasty stuff ( stuff is as technical as I get ) when burning :)

[Capt Keith]

I would definitely avoid either one, especially the treated wood.
Thanks! Keeping me out of trouble!

[Capt Keith]

Some treated wood can give off some nasty stuff ( stuff is as technical as I get ) when burning :)

Thanks!

[44MAG#1]

I've been casting since 1980 or maybe slightly earlier and never knew it was so hard to do.
Used many different alloys both tin and lead and tin, antimony and lead in LBT, H&G, Lyman, NEI, Mountain Mold, Accurate Mold and Lee.
I don't know what to make of all of it.

[onelight]

I've been casting since 1980 or maybe slightly earlier and never knew it was so hard to do.
Used many different alloys both tin and lead and tin, antimony and lead in LBT, H&G, Lyman, NEI, Mountain Mold, Accurate Mold and Lee.
I don't know what to make of all of it.
:drinks:

[oley55]

44MAG#1 and onelight,

clearly you two have been doing it all wrong and for a really long time. Too bad you didn't have the internet back then to tell you so, but hey we're here to help you out now.

[Wayne Smith]

Adding scientific understanding to a well known process only helps in the long run. Read Glen's article several times until you understand what he his saying. He does a pretty good job of explaining chemical processes in common language. I didn't get past HS Chemistry but can understand what he is saying and can visualize the process to some degree.