3f powder not available what can I use

[Driver man]

Im a bit stuck. With the component shortage now spreading world wide i have found i cant get any FFF from my usual sources and can only get FF and 4F. I shoot a 1858 Remington 44 Uberti replica and have only used FFF . Can I use any of the 2f or 4F instead, and if so what sort of loads work. I load 23 grains of 3F with a semolina wad and a 457 round ball topped with a lube of beeswax and petroleum jelly. Very accurate and fun to shoot. I live in NZ and am at the end of the supply chain so don't expect to get resupplied soon. On the other hand I can still get primers and powder altho prices have risen.

[hawkenhunter50]

Load it with the 2F and carry on. Don't think I'd use the 4F. I'd load whatever amount it took to get the ball seated where you want it with your lube and wads, should work just fine.

[trails4u]

I use FF in all of my BP revolvers, from 36 Navy to Colt Walkers.... Ya should be good to go.

[Driver man]

I use FF in all of my BP revolvers, from 36 Navy to Colt Walkers.... Ya should be good to go.

Now thats good to hear. Ill do a range trip Sunday . I was thinking I might have to pour about 5 grains of 4f then top up with FF to get reasonable results.

[Super Sneaky Steve]

When your 2F runs out head on over to the home made black powder thread and carry on.

[toot]

as stated go with 2FG. grade. BP. not a problem.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm another one who has used 2F when 3F wasn't available - in both .36 and .44 - has always worked fine. Same for my rifles of smaller bores.

[rodwha]

There’s a fellow who tested original paper cartridges from the Hazard’s powder company. The powder used was called Pistol Powder and it was found to be 4F granulation. When tested it gave the same power as Swiss powder today in 4F. These cartridges were stout using 36 grns behind a 211 grn bullet. That’s pretty serious. The old Lyman 1st Edition Black Powder Handbook has loads going up to 37 grns of 4F with a ball and the pressures aren’t extreme at all.

I’d never suggest loading against what the manufacturer suggests, but in all honesty the modern steel guns are stronger than they were 160 years ago. I use energetic powders (Olde Eynsford by Goex and Triple 7) in 3F and get plenty of power for hunting so I see no need to use 4F. However if all I could find was the plethora of weaker powders I’d be finding an accurate 4F load. Your load isn’t stout and you aren’t using a bullet so there’s nothing really to fear by trying 4F as well. Shoot both 2 and 4F and see what you see. Ruger shows 4F loading as well but also stated accuracy tended to suffer.

[rodwha]

Oh, and there’s a museum curator who disassembled a lot of original 19th and early 20th century cartridges and found these quite often loaded with 4F and even finer powders and this even in large calibers. 4F is only for the pan is a 21st century thing.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I use 3f for about all my shooting , but a few months ago when I was thinking of buying more , Grafs only had 20 cans of 3f and I passed as I had powder still , well a few days later I thought it over and went back to order , no 3f but they had 20 cans of 2f so I ordered 20 cans of 2f and 5 cans of 4f , figuring I could use the 4f along with the 2f or in my flintlocks , I have been shooting the 2f through the 44 revolver the 50 caliber rifle and then loading it in the 40-90ss and the 50-95 .

Years past I had some 1f and I shot that out of the 50 muzzle loader , I was glad I ordered the 2f and 4f when Grafs had it as the price went up on their reenactor grades right after I ordered .

I to think the home made powder is going to be the way to go , and have stocked up on the potassium nitrate and Sulphur .

[rodwha]

Forgot to mention how in Europe 4F has been pistol powder for a very long time. Look at their offerings and note the usage they show for handguns:

https://i.postimg.cc/504d0cZs/3-EC42-B2-A-C5-EA-4640-8-F6-D-17-D653-A55-B80.png (https://postimages.org/)

And Swiss is potent stuff much like Olde Eynsford and Triple 7.

[LAGS]

If you can find only 2f , then just crush it a bit and run it thru a screen.
Anything that will pass thru a 30 mesh screen but will not pass thru a 40 mesh screen will be your 3f.
Just screening your 2f will seperate your finer 3f and 4f without any crushing.
It won't be much , but it is a starting point

[Hanshi]

Just me, but 4F in a bp revolver would be my choice. Black powder cartridges in the old west were loaded with bp similar to 4F and were powerful. With today's c&b revolvers far stronger than the old iron frame ones 4F is quite a good choice.

[Edward]

Just me, but 4F in a bp revolver would be my choice. Black powder cartridges in the old west were loaded with bp similar to 4F and were powerful. With today's c&b revolvers far stronger than the old iron frame ones 4F is quite a good choice.

I 2nd that!!!

[Driver man]

Well, thats given me a bit more confidence. I will do a test for accuracy at the range on Sunday with each powder and see which gives the best results. One of the muzzle loader competitions held at the range with revolvers is at 25metres precision (single hand) 13 shots with 10 best shot scoring. I normally do well .

[Battis]

From an old Colt Industries pamphlet:
"FFG black powder is best for large and medium-size revolvers, and FFFG for the small pocket models, but any grade that is available will work reasonably well."

[rodwha]

Just from a fouling perspective I wouldn’t want to use 2F in anything unless it shot better. I might try it in my .50 cal rifle.

[pietro]

i have found i cant get any FFF from my usual sources and can only get FF and 4F.


Graf & Son currently has Goex FFFg in stock @ $21/lb, with a minimum purchase:

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501

[John Boy]

https://powderinc.com/black-powder/ Powder Inc has FFFg powder

[FLINTNFIRE]

The OP is overseas our stateside retail sales are not shipped over seas .

[Tasbay]

Have you tried the locally made Holly Smoke black powder , From my understanding its as good as Goex though I haven`t used it myself as I use home made powder except for 4F in the flash pan.
NZ Black Powder Federation have it advertised from memory.

[Driver man]

I havent used any of the holy smoke powder but have managed to get a kilo of swiss 2f which is just great. Just so much better than what Im used to

[Geezer in NH]

Just me, but 4F in a bp revolver would be my choice. Black powder cartridges in the old west were loaded with bp similar to 4F and were powerful. With today's c&b revolvers far stronger than the old iron frame ones 4F is quite a good choice.
I'm with Hanshi I use 4f in my revolvers no problem.

[Driver man]

Ill give 4f a try next shoot and compare results.

[Driver man]

Its been a while since I posted but the last year or so has been eventful. I have tried the 4f and 2f and managed to get some locally made Holy Smoke BP in various grades and have managed to shoot over a thousand balls, what joy, my pistol shoots 3 inches high at 25 yards and I have done rather well in various competitions. Powder is no longer a problem but getting caps is. I have a reasonable store but now make my own from the toy cap gun suppliers. I make one good cap using two of the ring caps to conserve what stock I have. Maybe when the world settles down a bit it will come right

[FergusonTO35]

Strangely, caps are pretty easy to find around here. Much more so than 209 primers. I have to admit, Pyrodex P shoots quite well in my rifles and ignites pretty easy. I'm going to use it until I am able to get the real stuff.

[Driver man]

Ive found a source of CCI no 11 caps ,but the price is unbelievably $40.00 per 100.(thats $24.40 us)

[Edward]

Load it with the 2F and carry on. Don't think I'd use the 4F. I'd load whatever amount it took to get the ball seated where you want it with your lube and wads, should work just fine.

So will 4F, little less to start ! Both rifle/ pistol as it historically worked with and (in between) with both with much worse steel . /Ed

[toot]

being a BP shooter is not an easy thing to do now a days. but we will persevere. just hang in there and it will level out.

[schutzen-jager]

Turner Kirkland often stated in his Dixie Gun Works catalogs that 2f, 3f, + 4f black powder could be safely substituted for one another with no safety problems -

[Arkansas Paul]

Start watching this at about 11:30
He shoots a variety of stuff through his revolvers to show it really doesn't matter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icolNUAY5ig

[Driver man]

That was worth watching.

[indian joe]

Start watching this at about 11:30
He shoots a variety of stuff through his revolvers to show it really doesn't matter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icolNUAY5ig

Never seen a ringed barrel from firing on a short started ball? ? NOT A MYTH --- HES BEING STUPID HERE ---- not disproving anything - squib loads --
examples designed to prove his story.

Granulation size ? who said its gonna blow the gun - who said "super bad stuff is gonna happen" ? --- NO --- use the best size granulation for best performance is all .
Load coarse powder in a short barrel all you do is squirt unburned powder out the front

[libertyman777]

We’ve used 2f with good results.

[Driver man]

That was worth watching but it wont change my loading practice . just nice to see other viewpoints. right or wrong.

[Wag]

Powder Valley has some: https://www.powdervalley.com/product/goex-black-powder-fffg-1/

--Wag--

[Sound Tribe]

Yep I hear 2f will work fine in cap and ball revolvers

[Driver man]

I think Im getting better accuracy with FF.