.223 velocity and accuracy

[markmars]

I've been casting handgun bullets for years and I'm starting out on rifle. I have a Lee C225-55-RF mould I will be using a gas check and powder coating then. I'll of course start on the low end and work my way up. Just wondering what kind of velocity and accuracy your getting on your powder coated bullets. Smokes recommended bacon grease for the coating.
Can I accurately hit targets at 300 yards? I'll be shooting our of a 18 inch AR 15 and can hit 300 meter targets regularly with 55 grain FMJ bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

Might do a 'search" as there have been many, many threads on the trials and tribulations of shooting cast bullets, especially at HV (2000 fps +), out of ARs.

Good luck

[markmars]

I did the search they will talk about velocities but not accuracy or accuracy but not velocity. Didn't find anything on accuracy at 300 yards or meters. I'd like to see the data in one thread for example I'm currently shooting 55 grain ball ammo or of 18 inch 1/9 twist AR 15 at 3200 FPS. I'm zeroed at 25 meters and I'm consistently hitting torso size targets at 250 and 300 meters.

[BigAlofPa.]

Cast some and give them a try. You might be surprised. I load cast 158 grain .309 in my 30.06 now and then. They are accurate out to a 100 yards. I shoot them more in my 30/30. They are a 30/30 bullet. My 30/30 i use the irons. So i just shoot out to 50 yards with it.

[dverna]

I doubt you will find much accuracy data at 300 yards. Not many have a place they can shoot that distance.

Like Larry said a lot written on the .223 with cast. If I wanted to go down that road, I would peruse those threads and find posts that showed 2 MOA or better at 100 yards. It is doubtful you can achieve your objective without without ruthless visual inspection at the very least, and likely weight sorting.

I got all the stuff to go down that road a few years ago and decided the journey was not worth the destination. I found a great deal on Hornady 55 gr SP bullets ($420/6000). I kept the molds, GC's, and sizing dies in case of times like this when buying bullets is next to impossible or too expensive. IIRC, the mold is a either a 65 or 75 gr. At the time is seemed the 55 gr would need to be driven too fast to cycle an AR but things may have changed.

A lot of guys have experimented with cast .223 but I doubt there has been much success with 55 gr cast at long range. Good luck.

[Larry Gibson]

^^^^^

What dverna said.

Also keep in mind that 1 - 2 + moa at 50 yards out of an AR with 7 - 9" twist above 1900 fps most often does not correlate the the same moa size groups at 100 yards let alone 200 and 300 yards. Yes, I have been there and done that several times over the last 40-50 years with ARs of various twist rate. With 12" twist ARs and bolt guns in 223/5/56 it is possible to get 5 - 6 moa accuracy at 300 yards with 2200 - 2300 fps cast bullets [keeping 20 shots on an "E" target if the wind isn't too bad].

However, like dverna and many others the frustration level and work amount was too much so I just use jacketed bullets and just enjoy shooting the AR.

The reason much discussion on "accuracy" isn't found in those threads because accuracy is relevant to one's perspective of reality and after they chase that rabit down the rabbit hole they find the same thing dverna, I and many others have......so not really much to talk about. However, for those that just shoot at close range [out to 100 yards] suitable performance and a reasonable level of "accuracy my be had for their purpose. However, at 300 yards? Use a jacketed bullets.

[markmars]

Thanks for the input. Don't get me wrong I will continue to buy jacket .224 bullets. But I'm wanting to try and get a load for cast .224 that will hit a torso size target at 300 meters. Larry Gibson thanks for the information on rifle twist I'm building a 20 inch AR 15 and I will look for a heavy barrel with a 12 inch twist. 5-6 MOA gets me in the ball park.

[gunboat]

Somewhere-I have an article titled "Why Grown Men Cry-Cast Bullets for .223" or something to that effect. I do know it includes "Why Grown Men Cry". I was looking at that article to start trying to cast .223. If someone knows how to find that article it might have some good information.

[markmars]

Somewhere-I have an article titled "Why Grown Men Cry-Cast Bullets for .223" or something to that effect. I do know it includes "Why Grown Men Cry". I was looking at that article to start trying to cast .223. If someone knows how to find that article it might have some good information.

Is this it?

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/Cast%20in%20the%20.223.pdf

[Springfield0612]

I tired a ~62 grain plain base bullet out of a 16" 1/8" twist barrel AR15.
1) The first issue I had was no reloading data for cast bullets and AR's. Okay do the standard conversion for reduced load for increased pressure from the wider bullet, CHECK.
2)Neck sizing the bullet. I had to order a .226 neck expander, then lightly "crimp" the neck and check for functionality in seating in the chamber. With the accuracy in production now a days expect most chambers will be near SAMMI specs for the .223/5.56 FMJ rounds, this may be an issue. My other concern is the M4 feed ramps are not, gentle so getting enough neck tension to keep the bullet straight as it chambers and preventing bullet setback.
3) Add in the fact that I have yet to find a bullet mold for the .223 (Ar15) that compensates for PC'ing. That extra thickness from the PC can require you to seat the bullet deeper to clear the lands and grooves, this may increase pressures see issue #1.
4) Safe pressure for you and your gun PROBABLY won't equal reliable function in a gas gun. A "tuneable" gas block, or different weight buffer may get you functioning correctly, the time and cost associated with that may be a detractor.
5) We haven't even begin shooting to check accuracy yet. All my accuracy tests were at 25-50 yards. I used 2 different powders and did full ladder tests 5 rounds per load. All loads were weighed. Best accuracy I got was at 25 yards and was about 9" grouping. The first 25% of the lower end loadings would not reliably cycle the BCG.

Decisions:
At this point I was probably over 100 hours of time invested and $300 just in tools and equipment.
1) At this point I had a choice to buy a different mold, maybe a GC design instead of the PB design I bought.
2) Buy checks or a check maker for PB bullets.
3) Scrap the whole project and buy a BTsniper swage kit he had on sale at the time for a ridiculously great price.

I went with option 3. If you know anyone who wants to try out a 62 grain PB .224 5 cavity aluminum mold I might know a guy! I went with option 3.