vote on my powder

[everybodydiesintime]

I'm loading for 303 british and 7.7 jap using a lee c312-160-1R powder coated and sized .311. I mostly reload with IMR 4064 but can't find any around me.However I do have a few other powders on hand,so question is where to start?I have a 1/4 lb IMR 4350, IMR 4227 3lbs, DuPont 700x 4+lbs,lil gun 1lb,unique 2lbs. I have seen others here using these powders for 303 brit but I'm not sure what ''group think'' would be on best runner up powder from this bunch.

[LAGS]

I have had good luck with 4227.
I load the 185 gr with 26 gr
I stick with the heavier Boolits but I don't see why you can't reduce the load a bit and use it for your 160 gr Boolits.
I use to load with unique but can't find my data book.
It just happens that someone gave me 60 empty 303 cases today that are boxer primed and some brass Berdan cases.
I do convert the Berdan cases to use boxer primers

[M1fuzz]

I am a big fan of IMR4227.

[everybodydiesintime]

I love my 4227 but would prefer to use it on 300 black subs.might need to use it across the board for now tho.

[Gewehr-Guy]

9 grains of 700x or 10 grs of Unique will make a good load, those shoot well in my 30-40 Krag.

[krallstar]

My 303 british has a .316 throat. Have you slugged your barrel yet. Seeing that Powder is so expensive now. You might want to leave your PC boolits as cast and coated.

[stubshaft]

Unique gets my vote.

[P Flados]

If your are content with "The load" (13 gr Red Dot) power levels, the 700x can go a long way. Since 700x is about half way between Red Dot and Green Dot, the 13 gr charge does not sound unreasonable at all. To get closer to the 13 gr Red Dot velocities (Quickload says ~1750 fps @ 32.6 ksi for the 303 & , ~1730 fps @ 30.0 ksi for the 7.7) you might go up to say 13.2 of 700x.

If you want something a little more, Unique can do it. Quickload says 15.2 gr will give you about the same pressure as 13 gr Red Dot, but velocity goes up by ~135 fps.

And 4227 will do a little more than that. Quickload says that 30 gr will get almost to the same pressure levels as previously discussed. Velocity at this charge is predicted to be close to 2300 fps.

None of the above will get close to full power loads, but they can certainly make for respectable cast bullet target shooting loads.

Not sure I would want to mess with Lil gun in bottleneck rifles.

If you want more specific recommendations, you may want to tell us what velocity range you have in mind.

[RU shooter]

Stay far away from that 4350 !! The 4227 , unique and the 700x all will work well with cast bullets with suitable loads. I've never used lil gun in a large case so can't comment if it down loads well or not

[dverna]

If you are using 4064, is that a "full power" load or close to it?

You can not get there with the faster powders being suggested.

[Conditor22]

Use the 700X for blackout subs 4.7 grns under an NOE 247 is amazing in single shots and AR's [if you have the right buffer tube]

save the 4227 for the 303 :)

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've used 4227 for 'modest' loads (1500-1800fps, 160-200gr boolits) in several similar cartridges - .308 Win, .300 Savage, 8x57, 32 Special, .30-30, .303 Savage. I usually find outstanding accuracy using from 15-20 grains of 4227 in many cartridges of this size. If you are shooting 100 yards or farther an incremental test in 0.5 grain steps should find a sweet spot for your rifle, probably around 17-18 grains. Until 5744 came along, I favored 4227 for many mild shooting and accurate loads out to 200 yards.

[MOC031]

If you want something a little more, Unique can do it. Quickload says 15.2 gr will give you about the same pressure as 13 gr Red Dot, but velocity goes up by ~135 fps.

And 4227 will do a little more than that. Quickload says that 30 gr will get almost to the same pressure levels as previously discussed. Velocity at this charge is predicted to be close to 2300 fps.

If you want more specific recommendations, you may want to tell us what velocity range you have in mind.

If you enjoy helping us out with Quickload's results to give us a bit of steerage, how about Quickload's results for bullets specifically intended for hunting? Mine are closer to the weight of ball rounds, rather than the heavier ones like 314299.

Like these two from Accurate, particularly the one on the left, which by happy circumstances also shoots very well in my Winchester Model 1895 30/40 Krag that has a barrel of bore/groove sizes more suitable for a .303 British? It weighs 185 gr. as cast, gas checked, and powder coated, ready to go. It's smaller buddy on the right, originally intended just for target work, weighs 170 grains, again gas checked, powder coated, and ready to go.

I have range loads like "The Load" worked out for my Long Branch No. 4 Mk. 1 and the Winchester 1895. Once the ice and snow disappears, I'm going to start working on seeing how close I can get that WFN design in particular to jacketed hunting load velocities before I hit the point where loss of accuracy, leading, whatever defines the upper limit. So... say velocities between 2,000 fps and 2500 fps (we all wish). I have a bit over 50+ different powders in the fun locker of the common powder varieties found in gun shops,other than Vitavouri and similar European, so when I start trialing powders I probably have about ten or more potential candidates to choose from among the selection.

280548
280549
280550
280551

I have no doubt either of those bullets at more mundane velocities just at or above "The Load" kind of velocities will cleanly take our local moose and elk with proper shot placement, but I'd like to trial doing better in the velocity department if I can. Most hunting load development seems to center around heavier, round nosed bullets like 314299.

Should make for some enjoyable range days this summer prior to hunting season, sorting out the possibilities.

[P Flados]

Quickload will give more useful results when more details are provided. Like bullet length, OAL and barrel length.

Given the vagueness of the request, I just grabbed a 185 cast and let it find highest velocities with various powders at a little less than SAAMI Max pressure and no more than 105% fill


Cartridge : .30-40 Krag
Bullet : ?? .312, 185, LEE C312-185-1R
Useable Case Capaci: 51.221 grain H2O = 3.326 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.030 inch = 76.96 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 44700 psi, or 308 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

7 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 97.4 48.2 3.13 2572 99.2 44700 8704 1.300 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T 101.6 46.7 3.03 2543 98.0 44700 8506 1.302 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 102.4 48.4 3.13 2539 97.9 44700 8466 1.328 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 102.1 49.8 3.23 2529 95.7 44700 8542 1.310 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C 101.8 47.6 3.08 2529 97.7 44700 8362 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C 98.7 47.6 3.09 2526 97.5 44700 8432 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 96.4 48.1 3.12 2524 94.8 44700 8462 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 96.4 48.1 3.12 2524 94.8 44700 8462 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 91.7 47.2 3.06 2520 97.8 44700 8260 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 91.4 46.0 2.98 2506 98.7 44700 7994 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 104.6 47.8 3.10 2504 99.1 44700 7850 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 94.3 45.0 2.92 2495 99.4 44700 7899 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 90.5 42.7 2.77 2494 98.9 44700 7946 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 86.7 44.7 2.90 2491 99.5 44700 7850 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B *C 91.8 43.3 2.81 2486 98.8 44700 7861 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 84.0 42.7 2.77 2485 99.9 44700 7566 1.325 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 *C 91.2 43.1 2.79 2483 98.4 44700 7872 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C 100.5 49.0 3.18 2483 91.9 44700 8208 1.314 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 *C 105.0 53.3 3.45 2479 94.7 37810 9389 1.399
Accurate 4064 94.4 43.6 2.83 2479 100.0 44700 7465 1.369 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 91.0 40.2 2.60 2478 100.0 44700 7154 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 93.0 44.9 2.91 2475 97.2 44700 7920 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C 105.0 49.6 3.21 2474 91.6 43012 8369 1.334 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 87.0 43.3 2.81 2471 100.0 44700 7416 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 89.0 43.3 2.81 2471 100.0 44700 7416 1.348 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 86.3 43.6 2.82 2470 98.7 44700 7699 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 100.4 46.9 3.04 2469 95.0 44700 7979 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 92.9 43.2 2.80 2468 98.7 44700 7597 1.317 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 87.5 41.3 2.68 2467 99.1 44700 7635 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 89.0 41.1 2.66 2462 100.0 44700 7158 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 105.0 52.3 3.39 2462 91.7 44665 8046 1.316 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 105.0 47.5 3.08 2461 97.1 41329 8091 1.369 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 *T 102.6 47.4 3.07 2457 93.8 44700 7824 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 100.7 47.3 3.06 2457 93.9 44700 7816 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C 105.0 51.7 3.35 2451 91.4 38340 8957 1.395
Lovex S062 92.1 42.3 2.74 2451 99.6 44700 7414 1.346 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 98.6 45.5 2.95 2450 96.3 44700 7729 1.342 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 *C 90.7 43.3 2.81 2447 100.0 44700 7267 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 *C 100.7 44.9 2.91 2446 99.7 44700 7325 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 84.3 40.0 2.59 2443 99.6 44700 7320 1.335 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET *T 93.0 42.5 2.75 2442 98.2 44700 7493 1.328 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 *C 88.3 41.0 2.66 2442 100.0 44700 7117 1.343 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 89.0 41.1 2.66 2439 99.5 44700 7343 1.352 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 86.5 39.5 2.56 2438 100.0 44700 6600 1.338 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 93.7 41.8 2.71 2438 98.4 44700 7379 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 85.7 43.7 2.83 2435 96.5 44700 7563 1.336 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 82.7 42.0 2.72 2434 99.8 44700 7176 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 83.0 42.0 2.72 2434 99.8 44700 7176 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 85.9 40.5 2.63 2434 99.5 44700 7223 1.336 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 93.9 45.0 2.91 2433 93.9 44700 7663 1.341 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron *C*T 95.1 44.4 2.87 2432 94.5 44700 7600 1.329 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 83.9 38.5 2.49 2430 100.0 44700 6850 1.333 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 *C 96.9 41.5 2.69 2427 100.0 44700 6715 1.347 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 82.4 42.1 2.73 2426 99.2 44700 7190 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 *C 94.9 43.0 2.79 2423 99.7 44700 7093 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 81.4 41.2 2.67 2422 99.8 44700 7042 1.354 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 83.3 42.0 2.72 2419 98.6 44700 7235 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 105.0 50.9 3.30 2417 86.9 40148 8421 1.373 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 83.8 40.3 2.61 2406 100.0 44700 6691 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4166 Enduron *C*T 93.5 42.3 2.74 2403 94.6 44700 7294 1.337 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T 105.0 50.1 3.25 2402 87.4 41605 7901 1.359 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 87.0 40.0 2.59 2395 98.7 44700 6974 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 84.4 39.2 2.54 2393 99.7 44700 6825 1.341 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C 105.0 50.7 3.28 2390 85.5 37219 8524 1.419
Accurate 2700 93.8 46.2 3.00 2389 93.5 44700 7199 1.347 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 81.3 36.2 2.35 2387 100.0 44700 6387 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 84.2 38.0 2.46 2385 100.0 44700 6386 1.362 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C 105.0 50.1 3.25 2380 88.5 36455 8417 1.432
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T 105.0 48.2 3.13 2376 88.3 41414 7613 1.369 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 *C 89.1 38.5 2.50 2362 100.0 44700 6159 1.347 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 105.0 52.7 3.42 2345 82.2 35553 8344 1.452
Vihtavuori N130 *C 83.6 36.9 2.39 2345 100.0 44700 6035 1.357 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 105.0 54.0 3.50 2316 87.5 35998 8061 1.446
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T 105.0 48.5 3.14 2314 94.7 32471 8155 1.507
Winchester WXR 105.0 49.0 3.18 2302 86.4 33236 8097 1.496
Accurate 3100 105.0 49.6 3.21 2301 91.9 33239 7775 1.511
Hodgdon H4831 *T 105.0 48.2 3.12 2289 84.7 36108 7478 1.449
Vihtavuori N160 *C 105.0 47.5 3.08 2278 86.7 36469 7180 1.449
Vihtavuori N165 *C 105.0 49.0 3.18 2267 88.4 34360 7356 1.482
IMR 7828 105.0 48.2 3.12 2249 82.4 32871 7734 1.507
Alliant Reloder-25 *C 105.0 49.3 3.20 2218 87.9 29938 8033 1.570
Vihtavuori N565 *C 105.0 50.9 3.30 2196 80.8 28648 7834 1.605
IMR 7977 Enduron *C*T 105.0 49.0 3.18 2172 75.0 35662 6428 1.481
Lovex S071 105.0 46.9 3.04 2141 88.0 26778 7224 1.667
Norma MRP 2 *C 105.0 49.6 3.21 2099 77.9 25890 7482 1.685
Hodgdon H1000 *T 105.0 49.0 3.18 2064 76.2 27922 6820 1.638
Vihtavuori N570 *C 105.0 52.3 3.39 2028 66.5 25263 7152 1.717
Lovex D100 105.0 53.4 3.46 1984 65.1 26958 6037 1.681
Hodgdon Retumbo 105.0 49.8 3.23 1965 73.9 23515 6838 1.776
Vihtavuori N170 *C 105.0 49.0 3.18 1961 68.9 23601 6199 1.775
Alliant Reloder-33 *C 105.0 53.8 3.49 1937 63.4 23230 6663 1.793
Vihtavuori 24N41 *C 105.0 52.8 3.42 1929 59.8 25402 5929 1.732
Norma 217 *C 105.0 48.8 3.16 1834 67.7 19124 6400 1.960
Hodgdon H870 105.0 51.2 3.32 1818 61.0 19825 6034 1.935
Hodgdon 50BMG 105.0 50.3 3.26 1773 51.8 20180 5240 1.929
Hodgdon US 869 105.0 52.8 3.42 1753 53.8 19759 5215 1.953
Alliant Reloder-50 *C 105.0 53.6 3.47 1699 53.3 16730 5627 2.106
Accurate 8700 105.0 51.7 3.35 1645 51.6 17522 4672 2.075
Vihtavuori 20N29 *C 105.0 53.4 3.46 1600 48.4 16074 4618 2.163

[everybodydiesintime]

OMG! You guys are a wealth of knowledge.After a couple days messing with my press'es base getting it bolted down solid again, I came back to check this post to see if anyone else thought the 700x would work fine.And this may of been my most popular thread yet.(Still new to the site)After reading you guys input I think I'm going to try both the 700x and 4227.I didn't have any specific velocities in mind, just hopeing to cast something accurate for target shooting 100-200yrds.I'll press some up tonight and try to test them in the next couple days.thank you everyone.

[everybodydiesintime]

If your are content with "The load" (13 gr Red Dot) power levels, the 700x can go a long way. Since 700x is about half way between Red Dot and Green Dot, the 13 gr charge does not sound unreasonable at all. To get closer to the 13 gr Red Dot velocities (Quickload says ~1750 fps @ 32.6 ksi for the 303 & , ~1730 fps @ 30.0 ksi for the 7.7) you might go up to say 13.2 of 700x.

If you want something a little more, Unique can do it. Quickload says 15.2 gr will give you about the same pressure as 13 gr Red Dot, but velocity goes up by ~135 fps.

And 4227 will do a little more than that. Quickload says that 30 gr will get almost to the same pressure levels as previously discussed. Velocity at this charge is predicted to be close to 2300 fps.

None of the above will get close to full power loads, but they can certainly make for respectable cast bullet target shooting loads.

Not sure I would want to mess with Lil gun in bottleneck rifles.

If you want more specific recommendations, you may want to tell us what velocity range you have in mind.

These all seem like plenty respectable velocities to me I mostly just target shoot 200 yrds or less,I just need a nice cast pinking load thats accurate.

[everybodydiesintime]

Stay far away from that 4350 !! The 4227 , unique and the 700x all will work well with cast bullets with suitable loads. I've never used lil gun in a large case so can't comment if it down loads well or not

Heard that on the 4350 leave that for another project later.looking at the 700x and 4227 right now gonna load some tonight and try in a couple days,will post my findings.

[everybodydiesintime]

I went to the range today and trier out the 700x starting with 12.0 grains and worked up to 13.3 all shot fine with my 160 grain lee lead checked then powder coated bullet.However the loads around 12.0 were to light recoil for my taste,13.3 and accuracy was gone.think I will settle down with 13 grains flat.At 13.0 the gun had good recoil felt nice and was shooting paper plates up no problem.I need to take it out a few times before I make a whole bunch but i think this is the load I was looking for.

[P Flados]

Congrats on finding a sweet spot.

[LAGS]

What distance do you intend on shooting these rounds ?

[everybodydiesintime]

50-100 yards mostly.

[gwpercle]

1.) 700X
2.) Unique
3.) 4227

The faster powers 700X and Unique will give you more shots per pound ...which is important in powder shortage situations .
If you could snag some Red Dot that's another good "economical" powder .
4227 is going to take 3X the charge of Unique ... a doable powder but at 28 to 30 grains per shot ... not the most economical .
Bottom line is you have to load whatever powders you got !
Sounds like you are having some sucess , try several loads ... the hunt for that great load is always fun !
Gary