What BHN for slow bullets?

[Paramax55]

I am starting on a venture that some think is cool and others are going to say is dumb. I want to load various modern cartridges with BP. I have an old muzzle-loader. I have some GOEX 3F. I have been casting and reloading smokeless for 45acp. I have been making BP with the help of the fireworks guys. I am about 5 years into the DIY BP thread on here. I have everything to reload my own primers - both corrosive and non-corrosive. I have the Lee Cast Bullet Handbook and the Horniday Handbook Of Cartridge Reloading and the Lee reloading Book #1 and #2 is coming. I know BP is dirty.

This venture isn't at all a "what's practical for everyday carry" type of thing. It's just to watch a bunch of smoke and lead come from stuff that people say it shouldn't come from while not depleting my "valid" supplies. It will make me wildly popular-er with my neighbors (we live in the country(and they will probably say "of course he did that")). I plan to try 45acp, 9mm, and 38spc. 45 should work, 9mm shouldn't, and 38 probably will (it's a wheel gun). I don't expect to get 500fpm out of any of them.

I know that too hard of a bullet, and the gasses will go around and melt lead to the barrel. Too soft and lead will wipe into the grooves. So... what is a good BHN for slow BP loads?

[Froogal]

A bhn of 10 or 11 should be just fine. I'm using 20-1 lead which is about 10 on the BHN scale, in my .45 Colt and .38 special/.357. No signs of leading.

[rjathon]

Probably a dumb question but would powder coating soft lead work?

[Paramax55]

I've powder coated for the smokeless and my Glock is happy with it. I've used red and black from Harbor Freight.

[ShooterAZ]

BP is a hoot to shoot in the 45ACP! Why? Because you can. As long as your boolits are sized and lubed properly, you could even get by with using pure lead. 40-1 lead was commonly loaded in many of the factory BP cartridges of yesteryear.

[Paramax55]

Thanks. I don't have pure lead, but a bunch of wheel weights. I have a long weekend, so I was going to drag my stuff back out and hopefully have another casting session. It's been a hot minute and I have a new 9mm die. My mind's eye is going to see Clint Eastwood when I shoot the 38.

[Paramax55]

I melted a pot of wheel weights tonight and they came out with a BHN of 9.2. I think I'm going to run with them just like they are and see what happens.

[greenjoytj]

Don’t forget the 38 Special was originally conceived to be loaded with BP hence the large case, it’s overly large for smokeless powders.
Try your 357 Magnum with BP that case will hold even more...:mrgreen:
Love the deep base Boom of a BP an cloud of rotten egg smoke drifting back into the face of the muzzle braked AR shooters ;-)

[Paramax55]

I run over and jump into the smoke when I set off the firecrackers I make.

[Edward]

It all works in hand guns depending on FPS /size and lube or powder coating ! Ed

[Wayne Smith]

Don't be surprised if you get more velocity than you expect. I load 44-40 in the original load, 200gr boolit, 38gr FFFG (all I can compress in the case) and I'm getting 850fps out of a seven inch barrel and 1400 out of a 20" barrel.

BP can provide serious results.

Your issue is more likely to be the adequacy of the lube grooves of your boolits. BP requires significant lube to keep the residue soft. PB is not efficient, and the rest is smoke and stuff left in your barrel.

[Paramax55]

I never really thought about it in that way, but 38 cases are REALLY long! I've been powder coating my bullets. I got a powder coating gun to give that a try. Even if I have to line all of my bullets up in a tray, it can't be any more trouble than pre-heating in an oven, dumping in a plastic bin, shake, dump into a seive, put back on the tray, yadda-yadda-yadda. And I won't have all the dimples in them where they touched each other.

For BP, what are most using for lube? I didn't lube the stuff I powder coated, but that was for smokeless.

[Wayne Smith]

I use a modified Emmerts for both BP and pistol boolits. Recipe is in the lube section, in a sticky on lube recipes.

[Paramax55]

Lube section... Sorry, the BP stuff is new to me.

[Paramax55]

Fed EX just delivered my Lee Handloading book - second edition. It says that any bullet that makes a dent of .094 or larger is suitable for BP. That's a BHN of 5.5. I think bubble gum has a BHN of 5.6.

[John Boy]

Max, slow means nothing .... what FPS range is your looking for?

[Paramax55]

John - I stated in my original post that I don't expect to get 500fps out of any of them. 38 special might, in hindsight, be the most compatible BP cartridge in my project and it might do better. I think the softest I have right now is 7.4 and it's pretty soft.

[Goofy]

https://i.imgur.com/rZgILkb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Sftn5LR.jpg

30:1 does ok with my .45-70
https://i.imgur.com/8kja5Q1.jpg

[Wayne Smith]

Lube section... Sorry, the BP stuff is new to me.

Second one down up above under Casting and Reloading.

[Paramax55]

Wayne - thanks. I had found it. I was just declaring my "duh" moment.

[Springfield]

I shoot Cowboy shoots every month using BP and 44-40. Lead in the range of 9-10 works fine with full power loads, as long as the bullet fills the bore.

[Paramax55]

Goofy - what is 30:1?

[Paramax55]

Springfield - thanks. 9-10 sure would be easier to cast than 5-6.

[Goofy]

Goofy - what is 30:1?

30 parts lead, 1 part tin.

Low velocity/low pressure loads will perform better with soft alloys, or even pure lead.

[Paramax55]

Yeah. I don't have pure components. I'mm starting from Wheel weights and each melt comes out different. So I test for BHN and go from there.

[Goofy]

OK, wish you the best with this. Your expectations of low velocity might be dashed, depends on what you use for a bullet. FYI, the proper charge for your project is a full case. BP is simple to load, don't get creative or it might bite you on the backside.

You might also find that round balls will work for some of this. The picture I posted of the odd looking ammo is a .357 case necked to .308 caliber and loaded with a Hornady .311 RB. Wee bit of lube around the neck/ball junction and away it went. Shot 4 other loads with different smokeless loads, all of which were much slower...and less accurate.

Poke around and see if you can find some roofing or plumbing lead.

[Paramax55]

I have a mold for 9mm. I never intended to load for 38 special because it used to be so cheap and it's not a gun I had planned to shoot much. But things are different today. If this works out, it could be a whole new level of fun. My mold is 356 and I have a sizer coming for 358. For the first few rounds, I plan to make due with my 9mm dies. If it all works out, I'll be ordering a correct set for 38. If I can bell the old case enough to squish a bullet in it, then squeeze it down enough to hold it, it will let me try 6-12 rounds and see if I want to order the 38 dies or not.

[Wayne Smith]

I haven't checked lately but it used to be that 38 Special, 45 ACP, and 30-30 were the most common die sets on eBay. I have purchased many die sets there and only was bit once, and that was a manufacturing problem, not a poor quality product that the seller would have known.

[Paramax55]

I'll buy the die set if this ends up being viable. But a die set is going for around $70.00 with the current situation. Usually I spend too much money on something, say "well, that was cool," and then it sits on a shelf. If this works out, I'll buy the die set. But I've already bought a ball mill, a puck grinder, sifting screens, built a BP pressing die set...

[Wayne Smith]

The advantage of a die set is, like now, when nobody has ammo, you do!

[Paramax55]

Oh, yeah... definitely. I have die sets for 45acp, 9mm, 380, 223, 270 winchester, 30 carbine, and probably something else I've forgotten about. I just don't want to jump the gun (pun intended) on something that I find out I'm not interested in after all.

[Boz330]

The 45 should work OK with BP. The Brits Webley revolver had about the same case capacity or slightly less and it started as a BP round with a pretty heavy boolit (265gr). I would think the 9MM might be a little anemic. Biggest problem with your homemade will be the density.

Bob

[Paramax55]

Bob - I'm about 7 years into the BP thread. It's good to see that you're still around. I've gotten into some long threads before. You feel like you get to know the people. Then sometimes some of them pass on.

Anyway... I'll be testing my corned against Goex when I get home in the next couple of days or so. I have some 3F that I've corned and I'm pressing to about 16,000 psi (I have a small die that I made to try it out first). I'm pretty sure my density will be there, but the charcoal might be off. I'm using pine rabbit bedding at first. Whoever had the idea of tile nippers for the pucks was GENIUS (I don't remember who that was)! It will probably be a couple of weeks before I can load some up and drag out the chrono.

[Boz330]

Bob - I'm about 7 years into the BP thread. It's good to see that you're still around. I've gotten into some long threads before. You feel like you get to know the people. Then sometimes some of them pass on.

Anyway... I'll be testing my corned against Goex when I get home in the next couple of days or so. I have some 3F that I've corned and I'm pressing to about 16,000 psi (I have a small die that I made to try it out first). I'm pretty sure my density will be there, but the charcoal might be off. I'm using pine rabbit bedding at first. Whoever had the idea of tile nippers for the pucks was GENIUS (I don't remember who that was)! It will probably be a couple of weeks before I can load some up and drag out the chrono.

I just pressed mine in a vice so the density wasn't there but grain for grain my powder did better than Swiss. I wanted it for hunting more than competition and it shined there and really did pretty good out to 300yd. If you can find some tree of heaven give it a try, I really like it. I got about 50fps more out of mine than Willow. That is not scientific though, just too many variables. I've put down 4 deer and multiple squirrels with mine.

Bob

[GregLaROCHE]

Go for it! BP is great fun. Don’t forget to clean well after each session.

[Paramax55]

I did it. I corned my powder that I made from pine bedding from Walmart. I got 12% less density than Goex. I loaded up 50 38 special as a trial. I PC'd some boolits I cast from soft lead and pan lubed them with SPG. Sized them to 358. I cookie-cut some cork gaskets with an old 357 case and a hammer. I made up a volume measure with some copper pipe and a bolt. I used a 308 die to decap, belled the cases with a 9mm powder-through die and filled to where I would get about an 1/8" compression after the gasket and all went in. I used the 9mm die to compress and crimp. (Those 9mm dies were only screwed in a few threads!) They chrono'd from the 460's to the 5-teens out of a 4" Smith & Wesson. It had a gentle push to it and I looked EXACTLY like Clint Eastwood when I did it!