No gas checks? ,Will this idea work?

[stubert]

We all know there are no gas checks anywhere, so if you shoot a checked bullet we're out of luck. My thoughts are, if the bullets are powder coated and stood on the nose to dry, would the powder coating that covers the base be sufficient to prevent gas erosion? It is labor intensive, but we would at least be able to use the molds. The only molds I have that are not checked is a .380 rn, and my black powder molds. Everything else is cut for a gas check. Stu

[Krag 1901]

There was a post about using a plastic disk under the bullet that said it showed promise. Can't recall the thread but sounds reasonable to stop melting the base. Also it is said that gas cutting is the problem so maybe a plastic disk would not help? IDK?

[M-Tecs]

There are very little if any issues with shooting gas check designed bullets without a gas check if you are keeping the pressures and velocity less than 1300-1400 fps with a suitable alloy. Some people have stated they have accuracy issue doing this. That has not been an issue for me but I have never tested it on anything smaller than 9mm. Noir have I pushed them past 1,400 fps. I have tested it on 9mm/38 Cal., 44 Cal. and 45 Cal.

I don't PC so no comment on that.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?1447-GC-Bullets-shot-w-o-Gas-Checks

[mehavey]

If you Shake-Coat the bullets and then stand them base down on parchment paper,
the coating on the base cures just as through it were on the sides/nose.

In other words, you have a T(PC)J'd bullet when done -- top to bottom.

[Targa]

I have gas checked bullets that I powder coat and run without the checks. These are handgun bullets but it woks just fine.

[bangerjim]

It is all in the pressure & velocity, my friend! I do it all the time with PC and no problems.

1 round out of 40 I shoot is copper gas checked. I have thousands of copper GC's (purchased before PC technology took over) but rarely ever use them, as they are not needed with the V/P's I normally shoot.

banger

[fastdadio]

If you Shake-Coat the bullets and then stand them base down on parchment paper,
the coating on the base cures just as through it were on the sides/nose.

In other words, you have a T(PC)J'd bullet when done -- top to bottom.

^^^^This^^^ I use parchment also, and they come out just fine.

[mroliver77]

Using a filler or a "soft check" has helped in some cases for me. Somebody here used to sell wax dental impression sheets. pushed over the case mouth to cut them left a soft check in the case mouth. Pain in the rump but worked pretty good.

[kungfustyle]

PC won't solve everything. Think of it as one of the best lubs ever. Still need to have a somewhat hard boolit and it will lead if you push it too fast. If you keep it under 2000 fps you should be good to go with a 16 to 18 bn alloy.

[mehavey]

No, PC doesn't solve everything.
But as an initial non-believer, it astounded me with what it did do.
See http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?409893-Pure-Lead-amp-PC&p=5001471&viewfull=1#post5001471

[Hick]

If you Shake-Coat the bullets and then stand them base down on parchment paper,
the coating on the base cures just as through it were on the sides/nose.

In other words, you have a T(PC)J'd bullet when done -- top to bottom.

This what I do and have run without a gas check upwards of 2000 fps without issues.

[P Flados]

I have fired a bunch of powder coated cast using three different Lee GC molds. I have had some pretty good success even though I do not use checks. My best load (combination of speed and accuracy) for each bullet is listed below. These were all worked up for use as IHMSA loads. I shake, stand them up on a no stick sheet (I used to use NSAF, now I use a silicone baking sheet) & cook.

Velocities as predicted by Quickload (other similar loads in these guns have chrono data match Quickload within 30 fps).

10" Contender, 30 Herrett, 150 gr Lee, est 1721 fps, 2.1 MOA
14" Contender, 30 Herrett, 170 gr Lee, est 1844 fps, 1.9 MOA
14" Contender, 357 Max, 200 gr Lee, est 1670 fps, <3 MOA

I have pushed some plain base powder coated NLG bullets up over 2000 fps with similar accuracy.

[tomme boy]

1700fps seems to be the speed where you need a check with powder coat. But some have pushed them faster with a plain base powder coated bullet. Popper is one of them. I have noticed that a bullet with a gas check base shoots better if the check is on there. And that 1700fps sis where it stays showing

[alfloyd]

Sages outdoors has them in stock.

https://www.sagesoutdoors.com/30-7-62-mm-caliber-017-copper-gas-checks/

Lafaun

[GregLaROCHE]

Shooting PCed gas check boolits without the gas checks has always worked for me for my 45/70 boolits. Never any leading that I noticed.

[tomme boy]

You won't get any leading just the accuracy is no good

[onelight]

There are a lot of variables besides a GC or not , bullet fit and alloy also the range you are shooting and what fits your definition of what works . If my shooting is at 7 to 25 yards with iron sighted hand guns at 700 to 1100 FPS my measure of accurate is a lot different compared to shooting at a hundred yards or more with a scope and bullets going at jacketed rifle bullet speeds.
You will just have to try yours and see if they will do what you want . If they don't you decide if you want to experiment with the other variables to see what works best . Short range and slow bullets are the most forgiving of non perfect combinations of variables . Plenty of folks here can offer advice based their own experience .
You may enjoy the hunt for what works , I would wait till I found gas checks , they will be back.

[farmerjim]

Sages outdoors has them in stock.

https://www.sagesoutdoors.com/30-7-62-mm-caliber-017-copper-gas-checks/

Lafaun

I bought 4,000 of them yesterday. Seek and ye shall find. Supplies are short, but they are out there.

[waksupi]

I think Pat Marlin is still making the gas check makers.

[P Flados]

You won't get any leading just the accuracy is no good

So you say that a 2 MOA load with enough power to knock down IHMSA Rams at 200 meters is "no good".

I really do not seen any accuracy difference with powder coated plain base vs a bullet with a gas check shank and no gas check.

[charlie b]

Since I can shoot close to MOA (and sometimes smaller) with gas checked PC bullets, then yes, a GC bullet without the GC is not accurate enough for me. For me they run 2MOA or more.

[GregLaROCHE]

How different is a GC Boolit without a GC from a heeled boolit?

[44Blam]

I've always shot GC boolits with gas checks. But I unless you are shooting full power ammo, it really shouldn't be a problem.

I also have Pat Marlin's GC maker in all the calibers I shoot...

[Goofy]

Some years ago I was plinking with a 77/44, shooting thru a baffle box about 5'x18"x18". Cast lead with card wad, subsonic. Wasn't too concerned about the wad wandering off track and as it turned out that was unjustified optimism. 2 wads struck the forward face of the box and came within a hair of punching a couple holes thru it.

Time passed and I started fooling with a wildcat with a suppressor. Objectives: Quiet subsonic lead with sufficient precision to whack pigs in the local swamps in behalf of the state and as part of a feral swine eradication program. After some work with a flat base non-checked bullet I had some success, but curiosity got the best of me.

Original bullet with a variety of different loads
https://i.imgur.com/sXOvzlK.jpg

I loaded up some Lyman 311041 w/o gas checks pushed with some Blue Dot and suffice to say another myth bit the dust. No way on earth will I fire a gas checked bullet thru a suppressor.
https://i.imgur.com/0LR49yA.jpg

The fouler hit a little low, the following 9 shots clustered above it. I don't know why the next 5 shots hit the target on the left, but it might have been from too much whiskey.

[Handloader109]

I've shot a good many GC based PC boolits through my 22tcm at 2000 to 2200fps. zero leading. Good accuracy. Fallacy that the Gc improves or lack thereof decreases accuracy of a boolits. Boat tail bullets work fine don't they.... Same thing

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Larry Gibson]

Big difference between what some consider "good accuracy" and what others consider it to be. Also a big difference between what is "good accuracy" and what is the best accuracy the bullet with GC is capable of.

Not a 'fallacy", just depends on what one's perception of reality is.

[KenH]

Big difference between what some consider "good accuracy" and what others consider it to be. Also a big difference between what is "good accuracy" and what is the best accuracy the bullet with GC is capable of.

Not a 'fallacy", just depends on what one's perception of reality is.
Larry, I know you do LOTS of testing and keep good records. Have you took a GC'd bullet and shot the same loads in the 1200 to 1400 fps range so there should be no need for a GC. When doing that, holding everything exactly the same (type of powder, primer, etc) so the only difference the two test rounds would be with or without GC. Do you find any difference in accuracy at 50 to 100 yds? I so, how much difference?

[Kraschenbirn]

I think Pat Marlin is still making the gas check makers.

Yes, but he's way behind on deliveries...I've been waiting for mine since December.

Bill

[Beaverhunter2]

Side note, but if you tumble PC that base will be covered. Don't have to stand them on their noses....

[44Blam]

Oh lord - here we go. If no gc works do it. If not, get some aluminum flashing and a Pat Marlin GC maker - make sure to get the right flashing.

[tomme boy]

So you say that a 2 MOA load with enough power to knock down HMSA Rams at 200 meters is "no good".

I really do not seen any accuracy difference with powder coated plain base vs a bullet with a gas check shank and no gas check.

If I am shooting 2 MOA, I am going back to the loading room looking for what went wrong. 1.5 MOA is my goal at all ranges.

Some people just expect more than others. My 308's were 1.5 MOA at 2400fps out to 350yds. And with a 10 twist barrel. I could push it to almost 2700fps if I went with your 2 MOA standard.

It depends on what each person the is is good enough. You think 2 moa is good enough. I think 1.5 MOA is good. Well with cast. 0.25 MOA is what I think is good enough with jacketed.

[P Flados]

For those that regularly shoot sub 0.5 MOA with Jacketed, I can understand that they might have a different standard for cast.

I have never chased that level of performance.

I know part of it is the shooter (I probably wobble close to 0.25 MOA more often than not). Part of it is my guns and what I use them for. Also I rate my accuracy based on the ability to reliably group 5 shots at both 100 and 200 yards.

The vast majority of my 100 & 200 yard shooting with cast boolits has been for IHMSA loads. With my Contender handguns I have never had any kind of projectile reliably give me better than say 1.75 MOA from 5 shots at both 100 and 200 yards. My open sight Dan Wesson revolver in 357 Max is having a really good day if I pull off a 3 MOA group with either jacketed or cast. Although the revolver does not group great, I used to shoot in the high 30s (best was 38 of 40 targets) with it before my eyes got old.

I have a couple of AR-15 rifles that have done close to 1.5 MOA at 100, but I have never done less than 1.75 MOA at 200 with cast.

I do not have any centerfire rifles other than the AR-15s.

So I agree that much of it has to do with expectations. I am very satisfied with my 170 gr Lee that I shoot without a check in 30 Herrett. The load that gives right at 2 MOA from both a 10" and a 14" barrel. I load this ammo in big (more than 80 round) batches and it does what I need.

[dougader]

We all know there are no gas checks anywhere...

Your premise is incorrect. I just recently picked up 30, 33, and 35 caliber gas checks with very little wait time.

[Charlie Horse]

Using a filler or a "soft check" has helped in some cases for me. Somebody here used to sell wax dental impression sheets. pushed over the case mouth to cut them left a soft check in the case mouth. Pain in the rump but worked pretty good.

I've used shotshell buffer powder under plane-based bullets and it has worked well. I put in enough so that it gets compressed somewhat.