38-55 Long vs Short Brass

[barnabus]

I have a Pedersoli high wall in 38-55. Im currently shooting the Starline short brass. This gun was chambered for the long brass. Do you think Id see any accuracy increase by simply going to the long version.No..Im not shooting Black Powder and have no intention of doing so. Thanks in advance for your thoughts and experience.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I have the same type and model from Pedersoli. I use the 'long' brass for better accuracy because it aligns the boolit with the bore. I'm using a 375gn Paul Jones mold.

https://i.imgur.com/Z2bCbxZ.jpg

[marlinman93]

I think it depends more on bullet seating depth than it does on case length. If you have any concerns about bullets aligning with the bore then seating them out far enough to engage the rifling should fix that issue.
And if the gun is a single shot, then I'd also not be against expanding case mouths until the case mouth fits snugly to the chamber as the cartridge is inserted. In most cases the mouth wont need any bell at all to fit well, but testing a case to see if the chamber allows a slight bell will let you know how much it can take. Once you know your case fits the chamber well, and the bullet slightly engraves the rifling, then minor case length change wont be a big deal.

All that said, I only use long .38-55 cases in my guns because they're all 1800's original guns, and I don't care to have any build up of burnt powder in my chambers. Any shorter brass I find gets sized down to .32-40, which usually results in them being long enough for that caliber. If they're not long enough for .32-40 guns I have, I sell the brass to people having shorter chambers.

[John Boy]

You would be better off using the 2.125 long cases in the Pedersoli ... they cut the chambers with a long leade

[barnabus]

You would be better off using the 2.125 long cases in the Pedersoli ... they cut the chambers with a long leade

can you explain why it would be better? what benefits would i see?

[koger]

I have a JES rebore 336 Marlin which has to use the short brass. I also have a 1885 Hi Wall Winchester in 38/55, and it will shoot either one. I have tried both, with long and short bullets, with no difference that I can tell. So I just stick with the short cases, that way I dont have 2 different lengths, and know whichever I pick up will work in my Marlin 336.

[Mk42gunner]

With smokeless powder in a single shot, I don't think it will make much if any difference. With BP, I would use the long brass.

My .38-55 is a Marlin 336CB that I was going to use short Winchester brass in. Due to an unfortunate rodent problem, I had to buy new brass and the only thing Starline had in stock was the long. It works fine with the Lee boolit and I really need to get another trip to the range in.

Robert

[GARD72977]

can you explain why it would be better? what benefits would i see?

The idea is to support the base of the bullet as it enters the throat. This is less beneficial if you have a large chamber.

If you have short brass and are getting good results then keep on shooting.

In the future i would buy brass that fits the chamber. You funds for improving your loading would be better spent somewhere else than replacing brass you already have.

[Martin Luber]

I never knew....

[barnabus]

would using short brass cause leading problems

[marlinman93]

would using short brass cause leading problems

No. Leading problems are not related to such a small .1" difference in brass length. More likely it's bullet diameter in relation to barrel groove diameter that's causing leading. Or rifling condition of the barrel.

I also shoot correct length brass in my .38-55 chambered single shots, and all mine are old guns with the long chambers. But some years ago I did a lot of loading, and testing in a couple of my guns using identical charges, and bullet weights, but with some new .38-55 short brass, and existing correct long brass I had.
I seated all my bullets out to the same OAL regardless of whether they were short or correct long cases. I saw no difference in accuracy when all loaded cartridge OAL was the same. I began by shooting two different targets, and ended by shooting 5 rds. of each on the same target, and my conclusion was it didn't matter for my guns.
My only issue with short cases is the .1" shorter case leaves that area of the chamber exposed to burnt powder, and could over a long period of time make the chamber corroded enough at the mouth to maybe not allow longer brass to seat without a thorough chamber cleaning.

[old turtle]

Starline has the correct length 38-55 brass. You can down size it to 32-40. I have found their brass to be excellent.

[barnabus]

Starline has the correct length 38-55 brass. You can down size it to 32-40. I have found their brass to be excellent.

not in stock anywhere

[Yooper003]

I got 200 38/55 short cases from Starline last month, it took a couple months but they took my order& when they done a run on them ,shipped right out.

[barnabus]

I got 200 38/55 short cases from Starline last month, it took a couple months but they took my order& when they done a run on them ,shipped right out.

im looking for long cases

[Yooper003]

im looking for long cases

What I am saying is, even if the cases you want are not in stock,they probably will take your order.hen when they do a run of said cases they will ship.

[koyote]

I'm curious - since I lucked into one of the Miroku High Walls recently - what's the actual bore on the pedersoli? I have a friend who has slugged some modern 38-55s and gotten 375. I slugged my miroku ant got .3775

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My Pedersoli measures 0.379" bore and 0.3705" on the lands. The Paul Jones mould has progressive depth lube rings from the rear, 0.380", 0.380", 0.377", o.375", 0.373" and a 0.370" nose.

[toot]

why is there even 2 different size case legenths for the same cartridge?

[marlinman93]

why is there even 2 different size case legenths for the same cartridge?

Blame Winchester. When they brought out the new .375 Winchester it was simply a shortened version of the old .38-55 Ballard cartridge. But not long afterwards Winchester's ammo labeled .38-55 began to be supplied using the shorter case length. It was simply easier and less costly for them to build both the .375 Win. and .38-55 in the shorter length and not have to trim cases to two different lengths.
Later other cartridge makers began to offer the shorter length cases, which was soon discovered by reloaders. There was a lot of furor when guys figured out their new brass was too short, and some companies went to correct full length cases, while others offered both lengths. But some continue to just offer the shorter cases.

[toot]

I have a MARLIN, BALLARD drop block rifle in 38 SHORT and 38 LONG, both rim fire and 38/55 center fire. it has a two position firing pin. is it safe to shoot both, the long and short cases in it? I shoot 6 grains of TRAIL BOSS in it. the question I have is the 2.125. cases to long to shoot in it.?

[marlinman93]

I have a MARLIN, BALLARD drop block rifle in 38 SHORT and 38 LONG, both rim fire and 38/55 center fire. it has a two position firing pin. is it safe to shoot both, the long and short cases in it? I shoot 6 grains of TRAIL BOSS in it. the question I have is the 2.125. cases to long to shoot in it.?

Your post confuses me? The .38 Long RF, or CF are not the same cartridge as the .38-55 Ballard cartridge! Sounds like you've got a #2 Ballard in .38 Long RF/CF with reversible firing pin, so that gun can't shoot either length .38-55 cases.
But if by chance someone rechambered your #2 to .38-55 caliber, you've got a sketchy rifle now. The #2 cast frame rifles should never be chambered in .38-55 caliber. Just not a strong enough action to handle that cartridge well.

[toot]

marlinman93, yes that is what I have and it has the reversible firing pin, for rim fire & center fire. where in the heck would I get 38, long rim fire and center fore? fire? I guess if I do shoot low velocity 38/55's in it , six grains of TRAIL BOSS in it I should be all right? they do not swell up after firing and extract fine. no exec essive pressure on the primers, after firing. so I am in a quandary.

[marlinman93]

marlinman93, yes that is what I have and it has the reversible firing pin, for rim fire & center fire. where in the heck would I get 38, long rim fire and center fore? fire? I guess if I do shoot low velocity 38/55's in it , six grains of TRAIL BOSS in it I should be all right? they do not swell up after firing and extract fine. no exec essive pressure on the primers, after firing. so I am in a quandary.

You can't shoot .38 Long if your gun chambers .38-55, ass the two are totally different cartridges!! A .38 Long is very similar to a .38 Special, except it's a heeled bullet. So once someone rechambered it to accept .38-55 it wont every be able to shoot the original .38 Long. I make .38 Long using .38 Special cases, and a .375 heeled bullet seated in the .38 case to be exactly as the original .38 Long was.
I've never used Trail Boss, and not familiar with pressures in it? As I mentioned before, it's a bad combination of the .38-55 Ballard in a cast frame #2 Ballard. Be careful whatever you shoot.

[toot]

marlinman, thank you so much for your great helpful information on my post. why in the heck would have any one have bored it out to 38/55? maybe because 38 long rim fire or 38 long center were no longer available? again I will be shooting only cast lead in it. I thought that the 38 long ctg. was a long ctg. not in the 38spl. case legenth. you are so right that I cannot shoot them in it. so years ago some one ruined a good gun. it also has a nice tang rear sight. when was the time period that my gun was made? and were they a hunting gun or just for target shooting.? sorry for all of the questions but you have stirred an interest in my weapon. ? again tanking you.

[marlinman93]

marlinman, thank you so much for your great helpful information on my post. why in the heck would have any one have bored it out to 38/55? maybe because 38 long rim fire or 38 long center were no longer available? again I will be shooting only cast lead in it. I thought that the 38 long ctg. was a long ctg. not in the 38spl. case legenth. you are so right that I cannot shoot them in it. so years ago some one ruined a good gun. it also has a nice tang rear sight. when was the time period that my gun was made? and were they a hunting gun or just for target shooting.? sorry for all of the questions but you have stirred an interest in my weapon. ? again tanking you.

It's not uncommon to find Ballard rifles in both .38 Long, and .32 Long rechambered to .38-55 or .32-40 cartridges. Those rechambered to .38-55 are less of a concern than the .32 Long chambered to .32-40. The .38 Long bores are usually in the .373"-.375" groove. The reason being the .38 Long bore is closer to .38-55 bullet size, where the .32 Long is a .312" groove and any factory .32-40 ammo can have way oversized bullets creating extreme pressures.
If you let me know which rollstamp is on the left side of your receiver, and the serial number with last two digits x'd out, I can give you a good idea of when it was built. All receivers with JM Marlin address will be 1875 to around 1881. Those with Marlin Firearms Co. will be 1881-1890.
What's interesting with Marlin built Ballard rifles is they were never included in Marlin's records, except for about 15 or 16 that got accidentally added. Another interesting thing is Marlin Ballard serial numbers were restarted when Marlin became incorporated in 1881. So there are JM Marlin guns, and Marlin Firearms guns with the same serial numbers on them! I once owned a #2 in .38 Long, and a #6 in .38-55 that had the same serial number. One a JM Marlin and One a MFACo. rifle. So we always need to know which rollstamp to determine age.
One other note here. I've never seen a JM Marlin Ballard rifle with the caliber stamped on the barrel, but every MFACo. marked Ballard has the caliber stamped on the barrel. I'm sure there may be exceptions, as never can say it's all for sure.

[toot]

marlinman93. it is stamped on the left side of the receiver--MARLIN FIRE ARMS CO. NEW HAVEN CT.USA.PATENTED.FEBRUARY.9.1875.BALLARD'S PATENT.NOV 5. 1861. SERIAL #, 304XX. hope this is what you wanted to know? thanks for the history lesion, I have put it in my save area. and I await your reply on my 38/55. toot.

[toot]

marlinman93, PS. my bore DIA, is .375 DIA. and I shoot .375's in it , and they are pretty darn accurate. toot.

[marlinman93]

marlinman93. it is stamped on the left side of the receiver--MARLIN FIRE ARMS CO. NEW HAVEN CT.USA.PATENTED.FEBRUARY.9.1875.BALLARD'S PATENT.NOV 5. 1861. SERIAL #, 304XX. hope this is what you wanted to know? thanks for the history lesion, I have put it in my save area. and I await your reply on my 38/55. toot.

Yes. The MFACo. rollstamp indicates the 2nd generation built from 1881-1890. The highest serial numbers in that generation are close to 37,000 so I'd guess yours is likely around 1887-1888 era. Can't get much closer than that guess.

[toot]

marlinman93, can't get much closer than that, right in the middle of production. so as I understand it/ the guns were never made in 38/55,? I can't thank you for your help in the information you so garishly supplied to me on my weapon. toot. PS one more question, in the second generation ones what changed from the first generation ones? again thank you.

[marlinman93]

marlinman93, can't get much closer than that, right in the middle of production. so as I understand it/ the guns were never made in 38/55,? I can't thank you for your help in the information you so garishly supplied to me on my weapon. toot. PS one more question, in the second generation ones what changed from the first generation ones? again thank you.

The #2 or any cast action Ballard was never made in .38-55, but there were many forged actions built in .38-55 for sure! In the first generation #2 cast actions Marlin offered a lot more calibers, as I think they thought higher of the actions. So in 1st gen #2 rifles they offered .44-40, .44 Long, .38 Long, .32 Long, and .32-20. Also a few other centerfire very rare calibers we never see. But at the same time the stronger forged receivers had a huge variety up to .45-120 caliber The little #3 cast actions were almost all .22 Long or short, but I've heard they had another offering in .22 WCF, but have never seen one?
The only difference in the 1st series JM Marlin and 2nd series MFACo. Ballard rifles is the rollstamp on the side. There were some minor changes within models like the double set trigger design, and hammer shape that changed over the years, but not necessarily at the same time the rollstamp changed. Buttplates and levers changed too, and on the #2 the change in levers did coincide with the rollstamp change. The early JM Marlin lever looked like this #2 in my collection. They're called the "ring lever" for the closed ring on them:
https://i.imgur.com/8EKzrfPl.jpg

Then they went to the S shaped lever like this #3 I have:
https://i.imgur.com/nW1QifQl.jpg