PC & Severely pitted 30-30 barrel ?

[Petander]

So how bad barrels are you people shooting with PC?

I got my hands on an old 1894 , now after two days of cleaning I found the barrel seriously pitted. I was thinking a dedicated cast bullet fun gun mostly. Because I have the gas check maker now...

My PC is holding good with 44 mag, will PC work in a pitted 30-30 with a 140 grain GC bullet?

Keep or send back? I'm just testing it and oh man, finding all those layers of lead and copper...


https://i.postimg.cc/L64j5p09/5676116e-1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/mrSbt0n4/IMG-20210317-175528.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/x8Gr4HS2/IMG-20210317-183108-224.jpg


Thank you. (I can reply to myself tomorrow I guess...)

[Smoke4320]

That one will be rough .. no pun intended
lots of file like action on the PC coating

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I don't know the answer about using PC bullets in a pitted barrel, but although the close up photo looks terrible, the through the bore photo doesn't look that bad. I'll bet it would still shoot acceptably well with jacketed bullets.

DG

[1006]

I am thinking: shoot it, see how it works. It does not look too bad to me. I inherited a shot out 257 Roberts. It looked a lot worse than yours and would still shoot the first 4 Jacketed bullets after a good cleaning into a 1 moa hole at 100 yds. I wish I had not eventually gotten it re-barreled. It was fine for hunting. The group started growing exponentially after the 5th shot. I would try moly coated bullets—the moly might help fill the rough spots, MIGHT.

[Petander]

Thanks folks

Yes the last pic is a greatly magnified pic of a Lyman borescope screen.

[farmbif]

those take downs are not real common or affordable if they are not all worn out. if it doers not shoot acceptably and if it didn't break the bank I would call jes and see if you can get it bored out to 32 win spl

[BJK]

Can't barrels be relined? I seem to have heard of that and filed it away in the dust and cobwebs that is currently my mind.

[Finster101]

Before I did anything I would shoot it and see how it does. You might be trying to address a problem that isn't there.

[zarrinvz24]

Having had a few sewer pipe Vz24’s back in the glory days of cruffling, I can say that you may be surprised by how it shoots. Take it out and give it a try. Even lead boolits may do surprisingly well. If not, than no big deal, your right back at where you are right now.

[rockrat]

Might take some JB bore compound and lap the barrel a bit to help smooth things out a little. Then shoot it and see how it performs

[GoodOlBoy]

Before I did anything I would shoot it and see how it does. You might be trying to address a problem that isn't there.

I second that. Before you make a decision. See how it shoots.

God Bless.

Richard

[longbow]

Since you are just testing you wouldn't want to be altering the gun but if the pitted barrel can get the price down you might consider options to make a shooter out of it. It looks nice externally and the take down is a nice feature. No point in having a gun that won't shoot accurately though.

I'd be inclined to try firelapping or hand lapping with fairly fine abrasive then give it a try... or as stated above, give it a try and see how it shoots. If it shoots well and doesn't lead badly then that answers it. If it does lead up badly and/or doesn't shoot well then lapping may fix it.

Alternately, rebarreling. reborring to .35 caliber or reboring and rechambering to .38-55 are options.

How are the rest of the internals? If the action is all good then tell the guy the barrel is a sewer pipe and he's asking too much! Get the price down to where you can put some money back into it to fix the barrel.

Longbow

PS: Sorry, that doesn't address your question about powder coating then does it? That I can't help with.

[Petander]

I actually loaded 50 rounds of 170 Sierras (Vihtavuori N140 load) while the rifle was being shipped.

I then shot them all without inspecting the gun, I know the seller, he is sort of a collector and I assumed his guns are as clean as his vintage guitars. Well they are not.

It shot acceptably, minute of deer, I had clays on a clean snow berm, easy to see hits. Sort of funny marble front sight with a round hole in it...

I also checked function with some factory ammo. Hornady velocity is as promised.

https://i.postimg.cc/WzBhBTV0/IMG-20210316-154230.jpg

These will be fired today. There's still some ancient crud in the barrel but I'll shoot these and see what happens, coating / leading-wise.

https://i.postimg.cc/28v69sgd/IMG-20210318-063911.jpg

[GregLaROCHE]

You might want to consider putting a few fire lapping rounds through it.

[coloraydo]

Maybe try a few paper patched through it.

[Smoke4320]

I would keep s close eye out for buildup and if possible to somehow capture fired bullets for examination.
Those fired recovered bullets will tell you alot as to what to expect
Maybe build a snowbank to shoot into?

[6.5 mike]

Think I would try the pp'ing. I've used it before, worked well in a 303 Savage, need to finish that one, lol.

[longbow]

303 guy says he paper patches for some pretty rough bores with good success. I would have thought the paper would get torn up by a rough bore but apparently not. The bore in that gun doesn't look as bad as some of 303guy's guns.

If you haven't done it, it is a new skill to learn but not difficult for boolits of .30 cal. and 150 gr. or longer. I had some trouble trying to paper patch 100 gr. boolits for my .303's. Short little things they are! After all the fumbling and work I got some reasonably well patched boolits but they didn't shoot very well. 180 gr. PP worked fine. I'm too lazy to do much paper patching though.

If it was me testing that gun I think I'd want to keep it unless there is another in better condition available. If it works well as is no problem, if not I'd be looking at fixes and I have to think barrel replacement wouldn't be easy or cheap for the take down aspect but lining (if possible) or reboring to larger caliber shouldn't cost too much if lapping didn't fix it.

Longbow

[FredBuddy]

My 1898 30-40 Krag looks a lot worse
than your pictures. I worked up a load
with the Lee 150 FN, checked and powder
coated that shoots quite accurately. The
powder coat doesn't seem to be scraped
off by the pits since my cleaning patches
still come out looking more fuzzy than
when they went in ! I make a final pass
with a brush to get the lint out.

[Petander]

Maybe build a snowbank to shoot into?

Build? Haha. This is Finland, man tall banks everywhere right now.

I will find some bullets later in spring for sure.

I'm also thinking keeping the rifle, it's a good one except the bore for cast. I can get a deer @ 100 right now. And I can trade other hobby (music) things for this rifle no money involved. Bluing looks original.

It probably has the chrorite primer cancer thing I just read about.

This just may not be my dedicated cast 30 cal rifle that the plan was.

[Electrod47]

Pity, all around because of the bore. The outside of that gun looks good. I've had some scroungy weapons in my day and the bores were usually able to be bright and shiny. Somebody may have fired BP and never cleaned it proper

[elmacgyver0]

It may shoot just fine, you don't know until you try it.

[longbow]

I got some of my best early lessons on what cast boolits and shotgun slugs look like after firing from deep, wet, heavy snow in Kemano B.C. (just below the Alaska panhandle on the coast) many years ago. It snows lots there and wet heavy slop.

I was learning casting for "small bore" for my .308 and was using moderate Lyman loads under a Lyman 31141 with no gas check. I could see the streaks under the snow so thought "I wonder...?" Sure enough I managed to find quite a few. They were so badly gas cut from not having a gas check on them that the lube grooves were almost gone! I wound up getting gas checks and things improved immediately!

I had lots of experience casting for .45-70 and .58 muzzleloaders and never had an issue even with Ruger #1 loads in .45-70's under PB .45-70 boolits but those .30 cal. were being eaten up by gas cutting like I'd never seen!

Also recovered many Lyman Foster slugs from teh same deep snow and learned why they don't work. Too much undersize and uneven bump up was what I found.

Snow can be handy!

Longbow

[725]

That rifle looks to be in wonderful shape except for the bore. I agree, shoot some fire laps through it to clean it up. I've fire lapped a few and it does a fine job. Easy as pie. :). If that fails, it looks to be a perfect candidate for a .35-30 conversion or even a .38-55. Might be even easier to just reline it to .30-30. I just always wanted a .35-30.

[Petander]

Yes. This might be a firelapping candidate.

I loaded some cowboy loads, this just became a 357.

1440 fps VV N320.

There was black crud but not excessive leading imo. Need to shoot more. Even the burning residue collects here big time.

https://i.postimg.cc/d12Wtv5m/IMG-20210319-170754.jpg

I decided to keep this, just change my plans accordingly.

[longbow]

I'm with 725! Its a nice gun so if fire lapping doesn't fix it boring and lining for .30-30 might be possible or bore and re-rifle to .35-30 or .38-55. But there I go making other people's decisions and spending other people's money!

I guess I am window shopping!

It is a nice gun. I think I'd keep and make it work one way or the other.

Longbow

[oley55]

It shot acceptably, minute of deer, I had clays on a clean snow berm, easy to see hits. Sort of funny marble front sight with a round hole in it...

Veering a bit off topic, I am assuming this is the ghost ring type front sight. The inserts should be easily changed out with a wide variety of apertures. I am currently using a hole type, sized just right for punching holes in paper at 100 yards, although not a Marples that I recall. The sight perfectly brackets a 6" target with just a whisper of white around the black providing a perfect and repeatable sight picture. With that front site and a Marples tang site, I routinely manage 100 yard 1.5" groups from my 24" Rossi R-92 in 357 magnum. Ideal for punching paper, but not so good for critters n such.

If you are interested I can look through my records on which brand of ghost ring and source for the inserts. The apertures come in a blued spring steel plate about the size of a credit card with a variety of posts/options ready to be twisted free and used.

edit: Lyman 17 with Lee Shaver inserts.

[Petander]

Veering a bit off topic, I am assuming this is the ghost ring type front sight. The inserts should be easily changed out with a wide variety of apertures. I am currently using a hole type, sized just right for punching holes in paper at 100 yards, although not a Marples that I recall. The sight perfectly brackets a 6" target with just a whisper of white around the black providing a perfect and repeatable sight picture. With that front site and a Marples tang site, I routinely manage 100 yard 1.5" groups from my 24" Rossi R-92 in 357 magnum. Ideal for punching paper, but not so good for critters n such.

If you are interested I can look through my records on which brand of ghost ring and source for the inserts. The apertures come in a blued spring steel plate about the size of a credit card with a variety of posts/options ready to be twisted free and used.

edit: Lyman 17 with Lee Shaver inserts.

Oh I really appreciate this, thank you very much.

Got a nice colour with clear & black today:

https://i.postimg.cc/rFsmJ2Mt/IMG-20210319-225133-288.jpg

[oley55]

yes sir, those boolits look fine. I think we need a name for that color combination, how about 'Antique Pewter'?

[Win94ae]

My 1917 30-06 barrel looks like this.

279871

I shoot lubed cast bullets without a problem; I can't see powder coating causing one.

I don't think the pitting is bad in and of itself, I regularly get 1 MOA groups with this gun. The story of this barrel is exactly like yours.

279872

I can't find cast bullet groups.

[frankmako]

JB bore compound will help. it will take some time, but it will clean up most of your problem. you will have to work at it, it will take time and your arm will get sore.

[Petander]

Great comments and suggestions,great people,great forum,thank y'all.

I have a 200 grain bullet with lube groove. These are hard, Hi Teked and can take 300 WM without problems. I could fill the groove with lapping compound, is 360 m/s (1200 fps) okay for fire lap?

https://i.postimg.cc/9FKFcJwR/IMG-20210320-150714.jpg

How can a 120 years old rifle look like this,me wonders...

[oley55]

check out NECO and Beartooth Bullets for pointers on fire lapping. Bare soft lead should be used for fire lapping. The lapping compound should be embedded into the lead by rolling the bullets between two strips of steel plate with the bedding compound smeared on the bottom plate. Your loads should be absolute minimum with just enough powder for the bullet to exit the barrel. Look for a PM from me.

[Bazoo]

Pretty neat old rifle. Here's some instructions for firelapping a revolver but it will apply to a rifle. https://gunblast.com/FerminGarza-Firelapping.htm

[303Guy]

My hornet barrel makes your barrel look brand new. It shoots sub MOA with jacketeds and not too badly with cast but those castings were less than perfect so I can't blame the gun. There was no leading from cast though.

My two-groove Brit looks like this;
https://i.postimg.cc/Y05h9fdJ/TWO-GROOVE_BORE_003.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
It's one of my most accurate rifles with jacketeds. I'm now trying plan cast and so far there is no sign of lead been removed from the boolit. I only fired one boolit to recover and check.

My pig gun looked like this;
https://i.postimg.cc/WbCFb5c8/Rusted-303-bore-006.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
After fire-lapping
https://i.postimg.cc/WbKgK295/Pig-Gun-Bore-008.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Here is a recovered boolit from the hornet.
https://i.postimg.cc/7YjsrXFg/MVC-307-F-2.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
It shoots paper patched boolits well enough to take out turkeys.

And here is boolit recovered from the pig gun.
https://i.postimg.cc/cLHwZvyX/256gr_I_mold_AUTOSOL_001.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

And the reason why I call it my pig gun
https://i.postimg.cc/Qxv1z4F1/MVC-544F.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[GregLaROCHE]

JB bore compound will help. it will take some time, but it will clean up most of your problem. you will have to work at it, it will take time and your arm will get sore.

I’d start with a few fire lapping and then go to the JB compound.

Are you in Finland? Will you be lapping in Lapland?

[charlie b]

So, how did the PC bullets do? When you cleaned it how did the patches look?

I love that rifle! If it did not shoot well I'd send it out and have it bored to larger dia, .32, .35 or .38-55?

[quack1]

I have a Krag that has a barrel at least as bad as yours, and it shoots plain base cast bullets, straight wheel weight alloy lubed with Felix lube, very well. I shoot hundreds of rounds each summer without any leading or buildup. As others have said, give yours a good workout before you do anything to that barrel, you might be pleasantly surprised.
You ask how a 120 year old gun can look so good? It's been reblued. A very good job, with nice sharp edges and square edged screw holes, but not original. Up until around 1916, levers, hammers and buttplates were case colored, yours are blued. Also, the locking bolt (the piece between the hammer and bolt) should not be blued. The stock also looks like a refinish, the straight line where it butts up against the side of the action looks slightly rounded from sanding in the pictures of it laying by the chronograph. Again, a very nice job, but not original. I certainly wouldn't mind owning a gun as nice as that one.

[dimaprok]

Was looking at your chronograph picture for a minute trying figure out what's wrong. 743 is awfully slow number and than it dawned on me - that's meters / second which translates to 2437.6 fps! :)
I am going to agree with previous suggestions to firelap the barrel. If I ever come across 30-30 rifle, I have everything for it but the dies.

[Petander]

Oh yes fouling is crazy.

I fired five low velocity coated cast bullets yesterday and cleaning took two hours. Another worn out brass brush.

It's the same with a box of factory j-ammo, you will need a big bag full of rags until blue stops coming out with Bore Tech copper remover.

It's so funny how we assume things like "yeah, I'll get a 30-30 for easy cast shooting."

[GregLaROCHE]

Fire Lapping!

[Petander]

I’d start with a few fire lapping and then go to the JB compound.

Are you in Finland? Will you be lapping in Lapland?

Haha,yes,Firelapland! :)

Does this buttplate look original?

https://i.postimg.cc/x18cbQX8/6ec03651-1.jpg

[725]

Ha ! :). Oh my, two hours of cleaning for 5 rounds shot. Lookin' like a re-line or re-bore is in order. Wish you were on this side of the pond. There is a guy in Gettysburg, Pa. that does this type of work and he is amazing. Hope you can find a machinist to help you out. That rifle is too beautiful to let go.

[GregLaROCHE]

One of the benefits of shooting cast is that, if you lap the bore with fire lapping or other methods and increase the bore size, you can compensate by casting larger boolits. Even if some of the rifling gets worn down, it should still shoot reasonably well. It doesn’t take a lot of rifling especially with lower lower velocities normally shot with cast. You should definitely try some lapping before reboring. What do you have to loose?

[Petander]

What do you have to loose?

Sanity?

[charlie b]

sanity?


roflmao :)

[Petander]

These gas checks were fired through the barrel with primers only.

They came out hexagonal shape. Is all that dirt from a primer only or did the check remove something from a supposedly clean barrel?

https://i.postimg.cc/9f5dkNSP/IMG-20210325-000043-397.jpg

I was hitting clays ok today. Two shots @ 25 m here. 140 MP NLG.

https://i.postimg.cc/1t64Gkbq/IMG-20210325-164603-031.jpg

75 m bullet trap was also clinging pretty much all the time. I missed one low of 25 shots. Low was because the trigger is still heavy,crisp and heavy but need some getting used to

https://i.postimg.cc/xCYVZBcH/IMG-20210325-160058.jpg

[longbow]

I'd say that's just primer residue.

That's a nice looking boolit! I'd kinda like one in 0.316" for my .303's. I'm thinking it would feed better than my 316410. The 316410mshoots great but won't feed from the magazine because it is too short and the HP gets collapsed by battering during feeding. No such issue in a lever gun!

is the gun yours now or still in testing?

Longbow

[stubshaft]

I had a very similar bore to your in my model 64 and sent it to JES Rebore to have it rechambered to 35-30/30.

[Petander]

The story goes, I got the 30 cal gas check maker as a by-product with another gc maker, a custom one.

So I thought, a 30 cal dedicated CAST rifle is needed now.

A friend said he has an old Winchester. I jumped on it right away, bought a mold, dies,a new press (broke one with the check maker) . maybe 200 factory ammo just to try...

Then I noticed the crazy fouling. Only then I inspected the barrel, even though I had the Borecam all the time.

After all that with the gun in my hand my friend says "I never fired that nice gun".


Too late , all I could do was to do the trade as agreed.


But changing the caliber gets me so far from the 30 cal hobby cast gun, oh no... I have two 30 cal rifles that break claybirds @ 320 meters all day. J-bullets

Here I'm struggling 32 meters.

[Petander]

Well oh well... man's gotta do.

I got five diamond paste tubes, from 40 micron down to 3.5.

Started all over once already, I went too fine too fast. Nothing happened.

But this is one crazy job. Just clean,clean and clean night and day. I've been doing this for about ten days now.

https://i.postimg.cc/x1zj7Vb3/IMG-20210405-002904.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/tR84zgs4/IMG-20210402-171013-859.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/d1d8txX2/IMG-20210405-210259-000.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/8cmMLrTs/IMG-20210405-220342-469.jpg

[longbow]

Yikes! looks like it is smoothing up some anyway.

Are you firelapping with jacketed bullets? I see what looks like some NLG boolits in that first pic. I think you'd get faster results using lead boolits rather than jacketed.

Is the accuracy improvement with cast or jacketed?

That does look like one pitted bore alright!

You've got your work cut out for you! Your cleaning rod arm will look like Popeye's arm by the time you are done!

Longbow

[Petander]

Longbow,

I may try lead bullets with the finer grits. Using lead now would completely foul the barrel with one shot. Jacketed fouls less and is easier to clean with Bore Tech copper remover.

No accuracy tests now while lapping. But I keep hitting my 75 m bullet trap with these 900 fps bullets all the time. I just hope I know when to stop lapping...

[longbow]

Well, this is confusing! I was going to say that my understanding of the process is that when rolled between steel plates with grit on them that the grit embeds in the lead so gets carried along and cuts as it goes. Because it was! I am pretty sure I have seen firelapping kits that come with lead lapping bullets and I had read this:

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/Classics/Fire%20Lapping.pdf

Then while doing a search I found this:

https://www.btibrands.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Bore-Lapping-Instructions.pdf

which shows copper jacketed bullets being used. The Nico kit also shows copper jacketed bullets being used.

Personally I would mix grit with grease or boolit lube and fill lube grooves of cast boolits for firelapping. With low pressure/low velocity loads it shouldn't foul badly... but that's me and this is your barrel. I hand lapped my barrels using pre-engraved cast boolits with lapping compound loaded into lube grooves. That worked well on both an old Lee Enfield and my Marlin 1894 with microgroove rifling with tight spots in the bore.

Whatever you do I hope you are successful! That is a nice gun... except for the bore!

Longbow

[Petander]

Thank you Longbow.

Yes,there are different methods. Some recommend lead for fire lapping handguns and copper for rifles. Anyway, copper fouls enough for me, I must have 1000 blue VFG wads by now...

Could it be that my pastes are not easily embedded,too? These are for knifemakers.

It got better looking today,I got in the grooves with 1200 grit. I will test shoot with some coated tomorrow.

I know I should have slugged but I decided to watch the Borecam and phone pics. If it is oversize I can adjust. Throat has been only slightly polished by now, I left compounds in the barrel after cleaning. But not in the throat.

https://i.postimg.cc/D0LR6QwQ/IMG-20210407-193124-686.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/6p9FVvJR/IMG-20210407-194410-780.jpg

[longbow]

That is looking better!

[rockrat]

Maaybe use boolits and slow them down a bit more, to around 750 fps to possibly prevent leading. You should be able to get more of your compound in the lube grooves

[Petander]

Maaybe use boolits and slow them down a bit more, to around 750 fps to possibly prevent leading. You should be able to get more of your compound in the lube grooves

Most instructions tell to impregnate the paste into the surface, not in the grooves.

There may be a reason?

[longbow]

My suspicion is that for fire lapping embedding the abrasive in the bullet/boolit is more effective... plus for copper jacket bullets there are no lube grooves.

For hand lapping... in my limited experience, I found loading the lube grooves to be more effective. Likely because multiple strokes are being made so abrasive is replenished as it is dragged out of the lube grooves. Suffice it to say it gets EVERYWHERE! I cleaned up after every lapping slug change. I am sure fire lapping is a lot less messy that way.

Again, just my opinion.

Longbow

[Petander]

I fired two boxes of Federal factory ammo today, to check what's going on.

Very little fouling, accurate enough to break claybirds @ 50 meters. Even with these funny original sights.

Velocity is a little higher than before fire lapping. It was 620 m/s, now it is 635 m/s. The same factory box.

https://i.postimg.cc/SRhqJTNC/IMG-20210411-170707.jpg

I have a feeling that I did good.

https://i.postimg.cc/rwx676GT/IMG-20210411-175458.jpg

[oley55]

Petander,

Glad things are coming together for you. Fire lapping can do amazing things, but it sure is work and time intensive. If you had to pay someone to do it, hardly anyone could afford it.

Subject shift:
what is all that green stuff on the ground, or has spring finally sprung in your far, far northern location?

[Petander]

Subject shift:
what is all that green stuff on the ground, or has spring finally sprung in your far, far northern location?

Oh boy we had +11C° (52F) today.

And the big news are - PC coated cast worked fine today!

No leading at all,I left some copper fouling from yesterday and it all was visible after a few dozen nearly full power 140 grain loads.

Bore scopes really rule when you drift into unknown territory. I must say this one looked like... unsaveable at first.

https://i.postimg.cc/pTjvTWqr/IMG-20210412-152324.jpg

Minute-of-moose accuracy is there, I broke claybirds again 25-50 meters. The snow berm told me accuracy is fine.

[longbow]

Things are looking up for sure with your snow melting and improving accuracy from your gun! I'd say a drink or two is in order!

11°C! we didn't see that yesterday. It was cold over night -6°C and cool all day yesterday. It is warming up today now and we just hit 13°C at about 1:00PM.

We're not as far North as your are by any means. I live about 1/2 hour North of the US border. However, we generally get pretty cool winters at down to -20°C at times. This last winter wasn't bad and we didn't get a lot of snow but so far spring has been cool!

Anyway, looks like you got that pitted barrel back into decent shooting shape. Good for you!

Longbow

[Petander]

We're not as far North as your are by any means. I live about 1/2 hour North of the US border.

I'm @ 62° north , the same as being in Yukon. One hour north from Whitehorse.

Anyway, fire lapping made this old barrel a shooter again. The whole coating thing is amazing,too.

[725]

Good to see you on the road to success. Needless to say, that rifle will require serious cleaning, more often, followed by a good metal preservative for storage. I've worked through a few pitted barrels and they take twice the cleaning at twice the frequency than undamaged barrels. Well done saving that old girl.

[Petander]

Good to see you on the road to success. Needless to say, that rifle will require serious cleaning, more often, followed by a good metal preservative for storage. I've worked through a few pitted barrels and they take twice the cleaning at twice the frequency than undamaged barrels. Well done saving that old girl.

Yes,the pits are still there,just smoothed up. I didn't really expect this good a success.
Coatings work perfectly,no leading as I hoped.


VFG cleaning patch "feel" is completely different now,too.

I use Bore Tech products,very very good for copper / carbon removal. Then good oil for storage.

[Petander]

Full house loads lead foul near the muzzle, I cut down to "cowboy" loads. Full jacketed foul a lot,too. But after one 20 rd box it still has the accuracy, I haven't fired more J:s at once now.

So I cut down. This 1450 fps "cowboy" load shoots clean, except very little copper from gas checks near the muzzle.

https://i.postimg.cc/B60vsxbh/IMG-20210426-161434.jpg

A cellphone pic of Borecam screen...

https://i.postimg.cc/fbZLQcJ8/IMG-20210426-180018-456.jpg

Look at that surface. It's amazing what coatings & fire lapping can do together.

I think that in terms of fire lapping, I'll stop here for a while. Everything doesn't need to be "full house" all the time.

[zarrinvz24]

It will likely continue to get better as you shoot it more. Great work!


Full house loads lead foul near the muzzle, I cut down to "cowboy" loads. Full jacketed foul a lot,too. But after one 20 rd box it still has the accuracy, I haven't fired more J:s at once now.

So I cut down. This 1450 fps "cowboy" load shoots clean, except very little copper from gas checks near the muzzle.

https://i.postimg.cc/B60vsxbh/IMG-20210426-161434.jpg

A cellphone pic of Borecam screen...

https://i.postimg.cc/fbZLQcJ8/IMG-20210426-180018-456.jpg

Look at that surface. It's amazing what coatings & fire lapping can do together.

I think that in terms of fire lapping, I'll stop here for a while. Everything doesn't need to be "full house" all the time.

[Petander]

It will likely continue to get better as you shoot it more. Great work!

Thank you very much.

My alloy is not hard at all here, it's a WW/pure pistol alloy around 10 BHN.

I'm still amazed at PC:s ability to allow for much softer alloy than the old rules say. Lino and WW being harder to find than pure, I'm happy shooting reduced loads like this for fun and practise. I do have mono/lino/ww stash but I like to use as little as possible. PC rules over Hi Tek here. I also Hi Tek some calibers like 45-70 and 500 S&W. Full power loads. But I need proper hardness there.

Also, a 10 BHN bullet is very malleable and tough, with HP @ 1450 fps it can actually hunt many things.

Plus I can catch most of the ejected , flying brass in the air already. :)

[Petander]

A moly update:

All this cleaning has been a chore. And factory Fed 170 ammo shoots under 2" / 75 m. Every time.

But I wanted this for cast...

So I treated the bore with Brownells moly paste. Four times. I then shot these groups the next day, Mihec 140 grn NLG @ 1400 fps and the other group named "full" @ 2100 fps. Bench 75 meters.

https://i.postimg.cc/cLRNDjmy/IMG-20220323-154206-292.jpg

I did some clay plinking too, total 40 rds. No leading. None. I did not "deep clean" it now, it takes hours even with Bore Tech products. Some carbon is there -and the moly. I'll shoot more today and see but cleaning was way easier than before, the first dry VFG wad feel was also smoother than before. Slick.

https://i.postimg.cc/mDvspG04/IMG-20220323-152731-219.jpg

I still can't believe that a bore like this can shoot at all. But all that fire lapping must have smoothed the pit edges or something. I'm not even good with semi-buckhorn and I still get acceptable deer accuracy with J-bullets @ 75 m.

But it's cast for now until I see how long this moly works.

https://i.postimg.cc/7ZKy8zpm/IMG-20220323-174724-924.jpg

[truckjohn]

Very good progress. Great to see you bring the old rifle back to life.

Muzzle leading with full house loads is a classic sign of insufficient lube/lube failure. Any chance you have access to some better lube - say a carnuba flavor like "Rooster's red" or the "High speed green" stuff? Another option is to try out a bullet with more/deeper lube grooves.

Honestly, though, I haven't had much luck with cast running over 1700 or 1800 fps. 2100fps loads tend to scatter a lot more. Luckily, I have Hornady Leverevolution when I need 2400fps.

[popper]

smoothed the pit edges
probably. The pits can fill in and smooth out but sharp edges on the pits tear up the bullet. The moly will fill pits too. I've heard that using it a lot will leave rings of hard moly in the barrel.