Fast Twist 22 Hornet?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Hi guys and gals.

So I just picked up an Ilion NY Handi Rifle in 22 hornet on an impulse buy. I’ve always wanted a hornet and this one popped up right close to home.

That being said I’m starting to do some research and I’m hearing that Remington made these with a 1:9 twist. I have not confirmed this in my rifle yet but it’s very likely that it is.

How will this perform with cast? Will my RPM be too high? I’m fine with a heavy for caliber bullet moving a little slower if the accuracy is acceptable ( I have low accuracy standards when plinking)
Will the RPM make a shotgun pattern at 50 yards?
Will I be stuck running J Words through her?

Any personal experience with one of these cartridges/twist combos?

Thank you all!

[Outpost75]

Where did you hear it was a 9 inch twist? No reason for them to do that.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I read it on the internet so it must be true right?

I know there isn’t a reason for it but at the same time we know how much Remington screws things up so who knows! I’ll get a cleaning rod in there and check her for sure tomorrow.

[Larry Gibson]

I have heard of 9" twist Hornets but haven't seen one. As with Outpost75 I see no reason for it other than they just used the "standard" 223 Rem barrels they had or were making and just didn't think it necessary to retool for a slower and proper 22 Hornet twist?

If it is a 9" twist any cast bullet should be able to shoot well upwards of 1950 fps. I would imagine the 225462 Loverin style would do well and accuracy should be good a lot farther than 50 yards. As for jacketed bullets I also imagine the "22 Hornet" type (40-45 gr Sierra's and 45 gr Hornady's) would hold together and shoot well up through standard Hornet 2600+/- fps velocities using 2400 or 4227. I've always found a SP primer sparking 11.5 gr 4227 under either 45 gr Hornet bullet to be very accurate in Hornets. You might also try 12.5 gr of Lil'Gun under either 45 gr Hornet bullets. That pushes 2700+ fps out of a 21" barrel and right at 20,000 psi which is less than the Winchester factory psi of 24,900 psi which ran 2514 fps. Pressure and velocity out of a 21" Contender test barrel. The Lil'Gun load runs 2940 fps out of the 24" M40 Savage with 3/4 moa accuracy (10 shots) at 100 yards. Accuracy was also sub moa out of the 21" Contender barrel.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I have heard of 9" twist Hornets but haven't seen one. As with Outpost75 I see no reason for it other than they just used the "standard" 223 Rem barrels they had or were making and just didn't think it necessary to retool for a slower and proper 22 Hornet twist?

If it is a 9" twist any cast bullet should be able to shoot well upwards of 1950 fps. I would imagine the 225462 Loverin style would do well and accuracy should be good a lot farther than 50 yards. As for jacketed bullets I also imagine the "22 Hornet" type (40-45 gr Sierra's and 45 gr Hornady's) would hold together and shoot well up through standard Hornet 2600+/- fps velocities using 2400 or 4227. I've always found a SP primer sparking 11.5 gr 4227 under either 45 gr Hornet bullet to be very accurate in Hornets. You might also try 12.5 gr of Lil'Gun under either 45 gr Hornet bullets. That pushes 2700+ fps out of a 21" barrel and right at 20,000 psi which is less than the Winchester factory psi of 24,900 psi which ran 2514 fps. Pressure and velocity out of a 21" Contender test barrel. The Lil'Gun load runs 2940 fps out of the 24" M40 Savage with 3/4 moa accuracy (10 shots) at 100 yards. Accuracy was also sub moa out of the 21" Contender barrel.


Good info! From the guy I was hoping would reply too!

I was worried it would be too fast and ruin my accuracy. Now I need a new bullet mould what a shame!

[Outpost75]

Back in the late 1960s H&R made some Topper .22 Hornet/20-ga. and .30-30/20-ga. rifle-shotgun combo sets with leftover, reject or M14 or M16 barrels which didn't gage up for one reason or another. I had a 4-groove .30-30 in 12" twist which shot wonderfully, but a friend had a .22 Hornet which shot poorly because the M16 barrel was .225" groove diameter (which is normal before hard chroming the interior, which reduces the bore dimensions) but the chamber was too tight in the neck to chamber rounds loaded with cast bullets large enough to fit the barrel groove diameter. Factory ammo with .223" bullets keyholed, but handloads with .224" bullets were acceptable.

If yours really is a 9-inch twist it could offer some interesting opportunities for loading heavier 70-grain cast bullets subsonic for low noise, if rethroated to permit seating the longer and heavier bullets out.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Back in the late 1960s H&R made some Topper .22 Hornet/20-ga. and .30-30/20-ga. rifle-shotgun combo sets with leftover, reject or M14 or M16 barrels which didn't gage up for one reason or another. I had a 4-groove .30-30 in 12" twist which shot wonderfully, but a friend had a .22 Hornet which shot poorly because the M16 barrel was .225" groove diameter (which is normal before hard chroming the interior, which reduces the bore dimensions) but the chamber was too tight in the neck to chamber rounds loaded with cast bullets large enough to fit the barrel groove diameter. Factory ammo with .223" bullets keyholed, but handloads with .224" bullets were acceptable.

If yours really is a 9-inch twist it could offer some interesting opportunities for loading heavier 70-grain cast bullets subsonic for low noise, if rethroated to permit seating the longer and heavier bullets out.


Very interesting.

Yeah that was my second thought was could I push some long heavy bullets at a respectable plain base velocity and have some decent accuracy and down range thump.

[cwlongshot]

I have had a few if these and a few before they offered it. The last one is a keeper!! I have rechambered to a K and love it!

I have t tried heavies but it shoots my cast and bagged Rem 45g HPs ontop
Of 4198 in hornet cases into knot holes!

I fit mine with old factory yellow laminated factory wood.

My K load is a 50g Vmax ontop Of 2400 to excellent accuracy velocity.

Good luck with yours!!!!

CW

[Michael J. Spangler]

I have had a few if these and a few before they offered it. The last one is a keeper!! I have rechambered to a K and love it!

I have t tried heavies but it shoots my cast and bagged Rem 45g HPs ontop
Of 4198 in hornet cases into knot holes!

I fit mine with old factory yellow laminated factory wood.

My K load is a 50g Vmax ontop Of 2400 to excellent accuracy velocity.

Good luck with yours!!!!

CW



How do you like the K vs standard? I think the little K Hornet case is pretty beautiful and have toyed with the idea of rechambering mine but I guess I should get it to the range and shoot it first.

[bowfin]

I think the little K Hornet case is pretty beautiful and have toyed with the idea of rechambering mine but I guess I should get it to the range and shoot it first.

Absolutely shoot it first!

I have bought several "project guns" that I had planned on altering UNTIL I shot them. Once I saw the targets, I ended up telling myself, "There is very little chance that I would end up with anything that equals what I have right now, let alone bettering it." In the last case, it was a NIB Argentine FM (Browning Hi-Power clone) that I was going to make into a .41 Action Express. It shot so well in its factory form that it is staying EXACTLY as it is. I'll find a Hi-Power or clone that doesn't shoot so well and improve it.

[Larry Gibson]

Absolutely shoot it first!........

Concur....

I've found with cast bullets The regular Hornet does everything the K-Hornet will. With jacketed bullets using Lil'Gun or H110 the regular Hornet in a strong action will do anything the K-Hornet standard loads do.

I also suggest investing in the Lee Collet die to just NS the fire formed cases. Or the Redding bushing die with several bushings .001" apart [what I use} so the neck tension is adjusted just to fit the diameter of cast bullet used.

I also suggest the use of a M-die with both cast and jacketed bullets. Inserting the bullet into the flared case mouth [Hornet necks are very, very thin] will prevent scrunched necks when seating the bullet.

[Michael J. Spangler]

All good points.
The dies I inherited have a Redding die and notes written in sharpie in the box saying “Redding die neck size only - excellent!!”

I need a shell holder too and I’m going to look for an M die while I’m on midway.

[cwlongshot]

100%. SHOOT IT FIRST!!

Having said that... Its the best thing I have done for this caliber!!! But DONT DO IT if ya want more power. Ooh ya will get a lil more for sure but not that it will make alot of difference. What it does do for ya is in brass life and reloading ease. Also the ability to co tinue to shoot factory with little apparent difference but vel loss is nice.

The reason ya wanna shoot it is because it does little to improve a inaccurate rifle. Thats why my first post explained that I owned a few! I love the lil hornet, but must admit it can be a persnickety lil bugger.

The 1:9 makes ZERO DIFFERENCE shooting std hornet projectiles. It helps with longer ones BUT AGAIN that diminutive lil case just dosen't have capacity for much heavier slugs. Might be ok for heavier cast if thats your fancy.

Good luck and post up more about it!!

CW

[Michael J. Spangler]

I measured to the best of my abilities and it appears she’s a 1:9” twist indeed.

So I guess once my shell holder shows up the fun will begin. I need to find one of those Loverin moulds too.

I think I have a Lee 55 grain mould but it seems 22 gas checks are impossible to find right now anyway so I’ll play around without them.