Wrong top punch for 22 Bator

[Land Owner]

In this supply-limited economy I cannot find an available, correct, 22 Bator top punch. I have an aerodynamic "V" shaped 22 cal. boolit punch (for RCBS Lube-O-Matic 2), that make the "U" shaped 22 Bator boolits look like a Wad Cutter. Doesn't do much good culling and weight sorting if the punch deforms the leading edge. "Normal" as-cast highlighted in a sea of "deformed". Maybe accuracy won't be too bad. It is all fun to me anyway:

https://i.postimg.cc/ZKH84nhn/Punched.jpg

[pastera]

Have access to a 3d printer?
I have made several top punches in PLA and they work very well - have even crushed a bullet or two by misaligning where the bullet was damaged but the punch was no worse off.

If you have a profile for the bullet I can put a model up on Thingiverse

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3978077
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3975185

[richhodg66]

I think you'll have to make your own or modify an existing one. When I got my Bator, I cast up a pot of very soft ones and shoot them in a .22 Hornet with 6 grains of 2400. The top punch I used did similar things, but they were still plenty accurate for what I wanted to do with them.

[high standard 40]

I always used a flat top punch for the Bator.

[beshears]

Grease the nose of the bullet and seat in your lube sizer. Fill end of punch with JB Weld and lower onto top of bullet and let set for 24 hrs. Perfect fit

[Conditor22]

Grease the nose of the bullet and seat in your lube sizer. Fill end of punch with JB Weld and lower onto top of bullet and let set for 24 hrs. Perfect fit

same thing with hot melt glue. clean punch, lube boolit, fill punch with hot melt glue, press lubed boolit lightly into the glue, when the glue sets, carve/sand of excess. lasts longer than you think and won't mar the boolit

[gwpercle]

Easy Fix ... custom fit the top punch to the boolit nose with a small ball of epoxy putty .
You can also use epoxy glue , the putty simply eliminates any running of the epoxy glue .
Clean the top punch cavity , insert the small ball of epoxy putty , I install the top punch in the lube/sizer , grease the boolit nose and set in the sizer die and gently press the handle down half way , makesure everything is lined up and in the correct position ... let cure and perfect fit will be achieved . Epoxy will last for decades ... hot glue , depending on the glue is temporary... my hot glue fitting lasted a few hundred boolits ... the epoxy 25+ years and going strong .
Gary

[Land Owner]

Retired now. No 3D printer access anymore. Thanks though... I like that the accuracy is OK for my intended fun shoot - to make fire formed cases for reloading later with boolits sized by the right nose punch. As I always do, I will shoot these for groups, but not expect too much. If they are accurate out to say 50 yds., then I don't care if the noses are deformed. If accuracy continues to 100 yds., I will be ecstatic. If accuracy is poor, I will use the flat headed punch, which I already have DIY - out of a 16 penny nail - for 38 Special and 357 Mag Wad Cutters...thanks.

[remy3424]

/\ what he said....it theperfessor was still around, he made nice empty "cup" ones, designed for the epoxy...or glue....makes a custom fit TP. Lathesmith might have these also.

[gwpercle]

Retired now. No 3D printer access anymore. Thanks though... I like that the accuracy is OK for my intended fun shoot - to make fire formed cases for reloading later with boolits sized by the right nose punch. As I always do, I will shoot these for groups, but not expect too much. If they are accurate out to say 50 yds., then I don't care if the noses are deformed. If accuracy continues to 100 yds., I will be ecstatic. If accuracy is poor, I will use the flat headed punch, which I already have DIY - out of a 16 penny nail - for 38 Special and 357 Mag Wad Cutters...thanks.

J.B. Weld , epoxy or putty , should be around your bench somewhere ... that's about as low tech as it gets to a perfectly fitted nose punch ... and if I can do it ...anybody can do it !
Gary

[MT Gianni]

Put a 1/4 20 bolt in a drill press head down. Turn it on slow and hold a hacksaw to the area above the bolt head. It should cut flush. Take a file to the bottom and square it up. With the press still running turn the threads off of the bottom 1/3 of the bolt. You have just created a 22 cal top punch.

[Land Owner]

My Mind's Eye goes into "micro-mode" as I envision the flat face of the 1/4" bolt meeting the nose of the Bator boolit where, in my mind and fat fingers, there is little chance except Hope that a square fit is made and the boolit is driven axially and straight into the sizing die. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a flat faced punch for that flat nosed boolit so deformation does not interfere with performance.

The fact is, I like the "wad cutter look" in sizing that otherwise "odd looking" round nosed Bator boolit with the wrong nose punch. Seeing one, much less a box of 100, with that tiny, round nose, half balloon "blob of alloy" on top that lacks a resemblance to an aerodynamic shape, is visually uninspiring. I know the round will be a varmint HAMMER when the rifle is tuned...not that I have many varmints, other than targets to dispatch.

Making it a wad cutter induces, for me anyway, a sense of purpose to the round. There is something visceral in sending a stabilized "ash can" down range to its target, with the intent of final authority - "That's got to sting a mite", and the wad cutter leaves a smooth, not jagged hole in that target.

Round nose pill, meh, not too excited about that. Wad cutter pill on the other hand, in 223 caliber, with rifle level velocity, if it will approach MOA accuracy (or better), yeah...that's getting my attention. I am going to shoot them "deformed", as "ash cans", cause it is what I have at present, and if accurate, may just keep sizing them with the wrong nose punch...

[high standard 40]

My Mind's Eye goes into "micro-mode" as I envision the flat face of the 1/4" bolt meeting the nose of the Bator boolit where, in my mind and fat fingers, there is little chance except Hope that a square fit is made and the boolit is driven axially and straight into the sizing die. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a flat faced punch for that flat nosed boolit so deformation does not interfere with performance.





As with all things, the degree of care you put forth will determine the result. I have done this very thing and I get excellent results sizing the 22 Bator. I used a drill press, file, and emery cloth. I've also reshaped nose punches by chucking a punch in a drill to spin it while I used a Dremel tool to remove some material.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

In this supply-limited economy I cannot find an available, correct, 22 Bator top punch.

>>>SNIP
I don't think there ever was a correct TP available.
I had one custom made...but in hindsight, DIY is likely the best way to go.

[GoodOlBoy]

Just a suggestion here, go to buying and selling. Title it WTB 3d printed 22 bator top punch. Somebody somewhere might be willing to help you out out of curiosity if nothing else. Chipping and damaging should be cheap for something like that. If I had access and any idea how to use a 3d printer I'd be glad to try it, but for a guy who was a senior tech way back when I am surprisingly dense when it comes to the current tech, and don't have much other than an old laptop I have to squint at, and a slightly newer desktop I also have to squint at. :p

God Bless, and good luck!

Richard

[Land Owner]

I feel technology is moving beyond me - at warp speed. I had no interest in 3D printing in my final 3 years in Industry. Now retired, with C-N-C machining advancements and 3D printing on the rise (maybe fully arrived already), what ELSE has passed me by?

I used to feel a deep concern for my parents, in their email and computer file management, as that technology was in its infancy for us. They were older, so they were "overcome" by that technology, which WE took for granted and learned.

The next generation is evolving.

[pastera]

Just a suggestion here, go to buying and selling. Title it WTB 3d printed 22 bator top punch. Somebody somewhere might be willing to help you out out of curiosity if nothing else. Chipping and damaging should be cheap for something like that. If I had access and any idea how to use a 3d printer I'd be glad to try it, but for a guy who was a senior tech way back when I am surprisingly dense when it comes to the current tech, and don't have much other than an old laptop I have to squint at, and a slightly newer desktop I also have to squint at. :p

God Bless, and good luck!

Richard

I saw a drawing for the mold somewhere but it wasn't very good.

If anyone here can get me a readable drawing of the bullet, I'll design one and ship a couple of printed ones* for just shipping. Padded envelope should be able to easily hold several.

* - I only have an old Lyman 45 so that is what I design for.

[Omega]

I saw a drawing for the mold somewhere but it wasn't very good.

If anyone here can get me a readable drawing of the bullet, I'll design one and ship a couple of printed ones* for just shipping. Padded envelope should be able to easily hold several.

* - I only have an old Lyman 45 so that is what I design for.

This may help, but it looks like it is still in progress. If you know how to mod the files it may be a good starting point.

For a Flat Nose
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3975185

For the Lee 356-125-2R
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3304014

Lyman Spire Point
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3978077

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I saw a drawing for the mold somewhere but it wasn't very good.

If anyone here can get me a readable drawing of the bullet, I'll design one and ship a couple of printed ones* for just shipping. Padded envelope should be able to easily hold several.

* - I only have an old Lyman 45 so that is what I design for.

I believe the drawing on Midsouth's website is the drawing of the Bator that they use to offer...even though it's on the page that they are offering Lee's standard # 90451 C225-55-RF (RCBS 22-55 clone). It's a very readable drawing, that's likely been downloaded to several places and becomes difficult to read.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

NOW, the problem. I have bought 5 different Midsouth custom Lee Bator molds (prior to Midsouth's discontinuing the original). The first two have a slightly different nose, than the later three...and all are different than the current Lee standard # 90451 C225-55-RF available from multiple sources.

[Rfeustel]

To those who made a custom top punch for the 22 bator, what top punch did you start with and fill with epoxy?

[Dusty Bannister]

If one is having trouble with deformed noses on soft small diameter bullets, the Lee push through size die eliminates that issue. Threaded for the press it is a nose first push through and no nose configuration is necessary. Any of the various types of tumble lube, lightly applied makes life simple. I assume the new style sizer intended for the AP press will do as well. Perhaps someone using one at present can address this concern.

[Land Owner]

To my "engineer's brain" in micro-mode, every axial force on an alloy of lead imparts a measurable deformity as the length of the boolit must change when its diameter is pushed through the die into a smaller uniform circle. The lead has to flow somewhere. Perhaps it is only into the lube groove(s) by sheer force along the boolit perimeter. Certainly, the boolit base is modified by the overpowering force of the press. Every external force leaves some impression on the final product (work hardening, diameter mod, length mod, groove mod, etc.), or we would not "uniform" them.

I am not inclined to purchase any more equipment (push through die). I have come to the point where the end does not justify the means (an equation in too many variables). That, and I have to QUIT trying to ladder shoot them toward jacketed bullet speeds (dooph!) - a mistake and waste of components with PC'd boolits not to be tried again. Eight (8) out of ten (10) failed to hit the target at 100 yards, assumed to be "lead dust" somewhere in the middle of the range, as verified by subsequently shooting several jacketed bullets, which hit the target as planned, and verified the rifle and scope were "on target".

[Alferd Packer]

I think putting that little flat meplat on the nose of that bator bullet just increases the striking power of the bullet on target for hunting.
It will also leave cleaner holes in a paper target by punching a hole rather than tearing the paper.
IMHO