Does someone have an old Lyman reloading book they can post 10 gauge 2 7/8” data?

[Tripplebeards]

I have been researching for old 2 7/8” 10 gauge data and have read on a few forums that Lyman use to have load data in their older load data books. I have the new Lyman book and to be honest I haven’t looked through it to see if there is any. I’m sure there is no shogun data in it. If someone has an old Lyman reloading book can they post some pics of the data? I am using RST 2 7/8” hulls. I just have 7 so far. I bought 3 boxes of 10 and will eventually have all 30 to load when I blow through them. I have green dot, red dot, and 700x. I also have FG, FFG, and FFG. Federal 209 primers. For wads I have sp10, BPD 10, and multi metal. I have ballistic products x10x gas seals and overshot cards. I also have two different Alcan shot wads. One approx a god 1/2” plus thick wad and the other looks to be a 1/4” thick I’m guessing. I bought them from a member here and won’t have them for a good week or so. I also ordered #6 nickel plated shot from ballistic products and have sone #5 lead shot coming as well. From all my research it seams like 1 1/4 oz is about the heaviest payload around 1150 FPS for Damascus barrels. I would have liked to go 1 1/2 to 1 5/8 oz but I want to keep my loads at safe pressures. I have been reloading centerfire for over 20 years but never reloaded for shotgun. I want to make sure I do it safely. From what I see powder, shot card, cushion, lead, and with another shot card or crimp. I am trying to duplicate an RST load. From what I’ve read they use a cardboard shot card over the powder (no shot cushion wad) and a Remington sp10 wad, then crimped? Anyone one familiar with their load? What power and charge is used? I would assume a shot card is needed to compress the powder in every load and then more are inserted and or a cushion to basically take up space in the casing to get a proper crimp? I’ll be using my lee loader and want to fold the original crimp back over.

[Scrounge]

I have been researching for old 2 7/8” 10 gauge data and have read on a few forums that Lyman use to have load data in their older load data books. I have the new Lyman book and to be honest I haven’t looked through it to see if there is any. I’m sure there is no shogun data in it. If someone has an old Lyman reloading book can they post some pics of the data? I am using RST 2 7/8” hulls. I just have 7 so far. I bought 3 boxes of 10 and will eventually have all 30 to load when I blow through them. I have green dot, red dot, and 700x. I also have FG, FFG, and FFG. Federal 209 primers. For wads I have sp10, BPD 10, and multi metal. I have ballistic products x10x gas seals and overshot cards. I also have two different Alcan shot wads. One approx a god 1/2” plus thick wad and the other looks to be a 1/4” thick I’m guessing. I bought them from a member here and won’t have them for a good week or so. I also ordered #6 nickel plated shot from ballistic products and have sone #5 lead shot coming as well. From all my research it seams like 1 1/4 oz is about the heaviest payload around 1150 FPS for Damascus barrels. I would have liked to go 1 1/2 to 1 5/8 oz but I want to keep my loads at safe pressures. I have been reloading centerfire for over 20 years but never reloaded for shotgun. I want to make sure I do it safely. From what I see powder, shot card, cushion, lead, and with another shot card or crimp. I am trying to duplicate an RST load. From what I’ve read they use a cardboard shot card over the powder (no shot cushion wad) and a Remington sp10 wad, then crimped? Anyone one familiar with their load? What power and charge is used? I would assume a shot card is needed to compress the powder in every load and then more are inserted and or a cushion to basically take up space in the casing to get a proper crimp? I’ll be using my lee loader and want to fold the original crimp back over.

I have a pdf of the Lyman 3rd Edition Shotshell book, and they have loads for 10ga 2-7/8" shells, but don't know if they're of any use to you. I found it online though a link on this groups. You may be able to find it yourself, and download it. It's >200,000KB which is IIRC, 200MB, and not something I can email to you.

Bill

[dsh1106]

Tripplebeards

https://imgur.com/FYBdYsd - 1951



PM me your email and I'll scan the pages and send them to you.

Any particular year year looking for? I have 1935, 1939, 1940, 1942, 1945 and 1948.

Scott

[Cap'n Morgan]

The three powders you mention are all rather fast, but will perform well with reduced loads. I would think 15 grains Green Dot would be about right for a 1-1/2 ounce load but don't take my word for it.

You could try contacting Tom Armbrust http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/ He should be able to point you in the right direction. I'm not sure if he can run pressure test on ten gauge loads, but there's no harm done in asking.

[farmbif]

you might contact Alliant directly and ask them for data, they are usually pretty good at returning emails.

[longbow]

You have to join to open the PDF but it looks like what you are looking for:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22315

Longbow

[Tripplebeards]

I joined Parkerguns and asked a question on that link if you look at the last page. I got kicked in the teeth for giving the OP a complement on the 4 pages of load data. That’s why I figured I’d ask here. WAY nicer people here that actually care and want to help. Dsh1106 emailed me a bunch of photos from the older Lyman books! Thank you!!! I also called RST today and was told they keep their 10 gauge 2 7/8” loads under 7000 pressure and that’s where she suggested to keep my reloads at. She couldn’t tell me the powder or charge...which I knew she probably wouldn’t share anyways but was told they use a Remington sp10 wad and approx a 1/4” cardboard shot card underneath it. She told me they don’t make 1/4” card any more so the loaders tear apart the 1/2” shot cards till they get the correct thickness. Using cardboard shot cards apparently lets some of the pressure escape to keep the load pressures down I was told. I told her I wanted to shoot some real black in it. She told me it was to much of a pain to clean out and to corrosive. I still might make some smoke fly.lol . She was a very helpful gal.


So I’m using a lee loader. I read in the directions to use a bathroom scale to seat a shot card over the powder charge. Any better ways to do so? How much seating pressure is suggested?

[Tripplebeards]

I still have to read through dsh1106’s data he sent. I did look at parkerguns 4 page list and found a 1 5/8oz load with 130 grains of fffg stating it was 6700 pressure. I might have to try that load. Seems my smokeless powder choices only are for lighter ounce loads from what they listed. I’d rather shoot some smokeless loads so I don’t have corrosive black powder.

[6pt-sika]

I use 1/8” thick 16 gauge nitro cards in the SP-10 shot cup . One of the guys on the Parker forum says use red beans to displace area in the cup . My 1 1/4 ounce load uses one 1/8” 16 ga nitro card and it’s pushed with 30 grs of the no longer made SR7625 that I just happen to have 15+ pounds of . It’s a good load for feathered creatures and I’ve broke plenty clay birds with it also , this was a Ross Seyfried published load in Handloader magazine over twenty years ago and I’ve been loading it for about 15 years . In more recent years I got a load from an older fellow in MS for a 1 1/8 ounce load using 18.6 grains of Red Dot and two 16 ga 1/8” nitro card spacers , I use that load for what 10 gauge skeet/trap/sporting/dove shooting I do . I might add even though you don’t need them I put an over shot 10 gauge card over the shot and under the folded crimp on both loads . The SR load isn’t bad at all recoil wise in a 10 double and the Red Dot load is a pussycat load .

[6pt-sika]

FWIW another friend that shoots at the Southern Side by Side each year and shoots sporting with me often loads for his Westley Richards circa 1878 hammer gun . He says use a MEC #33 bushing with Universal Clays and 1 1/2 ounces of shot . I personally have not tried loading that or shot that load but I’ve seen him shoot quite a few of them . Another SxS friend in PA recently gave me his load and I’ll eventually try it . “ 10g ,2 7/8”, 22.5g Unique, SP10 wad + 1/2” 16g felt or fiber wad in bottom of shot cup, 1 1/4 oz shot. ”

[Tripplebeards]

6pt Thanks for the info. I know you hate black powder loads but I saw this one over there. It’s under 7000 pressure which is what RST told me to stay under.

https://i.imgur.com/YIW5X5K.jpg

Do you know if any heavier loads like this with smokeless powder that are under 7000 pressures? If not I’ll have to stick with lighter payloads. I’d just like to put as many pellets on a gobbler as possible.

I see the above BP load lists a role crimp. I’m just gonna be folding over the six point crimp from RST back into place. How much pressure difference is there from a roll vs a six point crimp?

[Teddy (punchie)]

Somewhere I have a Lyman Shotshell I, 2, 3. Let me know in a PM if you still need data I'll see what I can find.

[6pt-sika]

In defense of Pete Lester’s reply he thought was sarcasm he’s actually a very decent and helpful guy . But as you’re well aware since you can’t see a persons face or hear how they say whatever it’s very easy to get the wrong idea . FWIW I’ve made 7 or 8 very good friends on that forum that I talk to on phone or in person regularly and shoot with as well . A couple of those guys hold the 8 gauge in high regard much like myself and to be honest without guidance and a fair amount of help from them in obtaining tooling and components I wouldn’t be loading for and shooting a pair of 8 gauge Parker’s .

[longbow]

I have only visited the Parkerguns site to read and have copied some information from posts but that's it. I had a link from when I was looking for low pressure 12 ga. loads so when I saw your question I thought "Maybe there's some good 10 ga. info there!"

I'm a bit surprised there isn't a database of old shotgun recipes from pre plastic wad era. There seems to be frequent questions regarding low pressure loads for Damascus barreled guns, card/fiber load data for old timey loads, and short hull recipes. BPI publishes data for card wad columns and short hull data for 12 ga., not sure about 10 ga.

I have a very beat up W.C. Scott and Son 10 ga. that may one day be put back into service. It dates from early 1880's and has Damascus barrels so will be low pressure or BP loads only. Under the dings and grime the wood and metalwork looks to be beautiful but the gun has been badly mistreated. The bores are somewhat pitted but not horribly bad and the barrels are very loose so need a new pivot pin and hinge reaming to suit. Not sure it is worth trying to restore or not. I'd be getting it checked out before shooting as well just to be sure. Anyway, I should start collecting low pressure load data for the 10 ga. as well.

But I digress yet again! And no help to Tripplebeards! Sorry!

Longbow

[Tripplebeards]

In defense of Pete Lester’s reply he thought was sarcasm he’s actually a very decent and helpful guy . But as you’re well aware since you can’t see a persons face or hear how they say whatever it’s very easy to get the wrong idea . FWIW I’ve made 7 or 8 very good friends on that forum that I talk to on phone or in person regularly and shoot with as well . A couple of those guys hold the 8 gauge in high regard much like myself and to be honest without guidance and a fair amount of help from them in obtaining tooling and components I wouldn’t be loading for and shooting a pair of 8 gauge Parker’s .

Awesome. I was completely shocked by his reply. I sent a pm to let Pete know I was 100% sincere and there was zero sarcasm in my post. He replied with a follow up post after the fact. Guess some guys don’t know to take a complement. I think everything is fine now.

[6pt-sika]

6pt Thanks for the info. I know you hate black powder loads but I saw this one over there. It’s under 7000 pressure which is what RST told me to stay under.

https://i.imgur.com/YIW5X5K.jpg

Do you know if any heavier loads like this with smokeless powder that are under 7000 pressures? If not I’ll have to stick with lighter payloads. I’d just like to put as many pellets on a gobbler as possible.

I see the above BP load lists a role crimp. I’m just gonna be folding over the six point crimp from RST back into place. How much pressure difference is there from a roll vs a six point crimp?
I loaded some gobble bird loads with my 1 1/4 load but left the card spaced out and put 1 1/2 ounces of shot in instead and they worked fine . To be honest I’ve never roll crimped anything other than 8 gauge so I can’t make a fair answer to that question . But I can say I learned first hand about not enough pressure . When I first loaded for my hammer 8 most of the hulls I had were well used and fold crimps didn’t hold back enough to set off correctly and I got a lot of pop booms until I got some new hulls from a friend .

[Tripplebeards]

I’d like to see that eight gauge shoot some loads! I am completely green and never loaded up any shotgun loads yet and have nobody locally I personally know that does to hold my hand through the process so I’m just gonna have to keep asking a million questions.

At least have it looking nice now. I went through and refinished the wood and the barrels a week or two ago.

https://i.imgur.com/iwwPRXZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YPeKnt6.jpg

I have the refinishing process down I just have to learn how to reload for it now.

[6pt-sika]

I have a very beat up W.C. Scott and Son 10 ga. that may one day be put back into service. It dates from early 1880's and has Damascus barrels so will be low pressure or BP loads only. Under the dings and grime the wood and metalwork looks to be beautiful but the gun has been badly mistreated. The bores are somewhat pitted but not horribly bad and the barrels are very loose so need a new pivot pin and hinge reaming to suit. Not sure it is worth trying to restore or not. I'd be getting it checked out before shooting as well just to be sure.
A W&C Scott circa 1881 hammerless “crystal indicator” 10 gauge was the one that got me started loading 2 7/8” 10 gauge . I might add the gun Ross Seyfried was loading for in his Handloader article years ago was the same as mine although his was in what appeared to be a good bit better shape . My grandfather was given the gun in 1946 after he returned from the Pacific and it’s my understanding it was a bit abused when he acquired it . He put shims in it to tighten it up and when I was a kid he shot Temington factory loads in it . Matter of fact after he passed and it came to me I finished off the last of the Remington factory stuff he had . Of the guns on face , relatively tight , no deep deep pits and the barrels have a decent tone when you tap them I’ll shoot my loads . But that Seyfried load is not stout I’ve been told by several guys how many MORE grains of the same powder they put in their loads . I’m happy with the load I also might add the Seyfried load does well on geese with 1 1/4 ounces of #1 Bismuth .

[6pt-sika]

I’d like to see that eight gauge shoot some loads! I am completely green and never loaded up any shotgun loads yet and have nobody locally I personally know that does to hold my hand through the process so I’m just gonna have to keep asking a million questions.

At least have it looking nice now. I went through and refinished the wood and the barrels a week or two ago.

https://i.imgur.com/iwwPRXZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YPeKnt6.jpg

I have the refinishing process down I just have to learn how to reload for it now.

Believe it or not my new to me hammerless 8 gauge I shot a round of skeet for the first time Tuesday and broke 22 of 25 , Ida been happy with that but one of those I missed was a low 7 puddin bird . Those loads were 1 3/4 ounces of #8’s . In January I had the hammer 8 gauge at a tower Pheasent shoot that has a reputation for very high high birds , on the first peg I was able to scratch down two cock birds . Killed a couple more at other pegs but used a 12 gauge for most of the shooting . I just wanted to try it their because it’s legal in WVA to hunt with . Well atleast for anything except waterfowl .

[Tripplebeards]

So if I decided to add a SP10 wad to the black powder load above would it increase pressure? I would think it would help with tighter patterns and protect the barrel better vs loose lead shot banging against it. I realize I would probably have to decrease the size of my cushion wad listed as well.

[longbow]

I had very bad experience using plastic wads over BP in 12 ga. Hulls!

I wound up scrubbing out plastic sheets with BP fouling. It might depend on wad brand but my barrel was lined with plastic!

If you use nitro and hard card wad column under a shotcup with cushion leg and seal cut off it might not be an issue. Using a lubed felt wad under the shotcup might be a good idea too.

Maybe others have had success but my experience using cushion leg plastic wads over BP was very bad!

YMMV

Longbow

[Tripplebeards]

Lol...thanks for the tip. It makes complete sense.

[longbow]

To be honest, I don't know if the wads were melting or if the plastic was being scraped off by BP fouling but then end result was a really crudded up barrel and literally large strips of plastic and BP fouling came out of that barrel!

BP either burns hotter or longer than smokeless powder because it is hard on plastics. You will notice that your plastic hull case mouths will get crispy after a reload or two of BP. If you can toss them after one use not a big deal. Brass hulls would be a better choice for BP I think. If you could find paper hulls they should work well too.

Again, just my experience.

Longbow

[mf79]

279515279516279515279516

[Tripplebeards]

After all the load data I’ve have found I didn’t run across this load! It’s a 116 grains of fg and 1 5/8oz of lead. The only other 1 5/8oz black powder load I rand into was with 130 grains of fffg with 6700 pressure. I would assume 14 grains less of bigger FG powder would cut pressures back a good 500 to 800? Guess the load came from the track of the wolf. Does anyone have the black powder load data booklet they can share? If not I’ll have to order one up.

Watch this little guy comically blaze away with the load...

https://youtu.be/UhgZXoGdzHQ

I will have to buy some brass shells. Are there significant pressure differences using brass shells vs plastic when using the exact same charge in each?

Here is a load card from the lee loader I have coming. It had a red dot load with 1 5/8oz of lead and 30 grains of red dot...with no pressure listing. Anyone have an idea of an approx pressure over this load?

https://i.imgur.com/eli9mGI.jpg

[gringogigante]

I have the Lymans Shotshell Handbook 1st edition. It has 10 gauge loads in 3.5, 2-7/8's, and believe it or not 2-3/4". Email me at chris@txvaluepro.com and I'll scan you whatever you need.

[RMc]

Ross Seyfried article on black and low pressure smokeless powder:

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/blackpowder-shotshell-loading/361504