The 308 Plan

[Gator 45/70]

What I'm looking at is an older Savage model 11
1/10 twist 20'' barrel nothing fancy here.
The barrel is threaded.
The plan
I have 150 fn mold along with 165 fn and 180 gr fn
What I think I would like to do is hog hunt at night (legal here)
Powders I can get are
Trail boss
2400
Bullseye
Unique
Possible Clays?
Titegroup
and possible several others?
What I'm looking for I think would be sub-sonic load data and accurate loads.
Any recipes with any of the above component's would be apricated since reloading supplies are hit or miss
Thanks ahead of time for any input.

[Ford SD]

it is very hard to get a light bullet to go sub sonic

I would go with the 180g
or
if you can a 200 g fn

as heavies will go slow and still pack a punch

[GregLaROCHE]

Lee has a 230 grain mould that I’ve used subsonic.

[Elmer Fudd]

My old standby tried and true generic load for 308 subs with jacketed bullets is 10 grains of Trailboss. Some lighter jacketed bullets (147 boat tail especially) can require less, say down to 8 grains or so, to stay subsonic. I haven't used cast in my 308 subs yet, which is surprising to realize and kind of embarrassing, since I think cast are better than sliced bread.

Some say Tin Star is capable of the same results: low velocity, medium pressure and subsonic with good load density. I have not used it.

Others use a Red Dot load, known as 'the load', which may work or you may be able to modify. Other pistol/shotgun powders can work too, so certainly consider your Bullseye, Titegroup, Clays. Bullseye may prove too fast a burn rate for you. Unique seems to work in everything that shoots slower than a rifle bullet. 2400, before its change to its current state, used to be sold as rifle powder. 2400 is amazing in a lot of medium-sized cartridges with cast, but more for the 1700-2000fps range; I think it's too slow for what you're looking for. But don't rule it out for great cast hunting or plinking loads in your 308.

My advice when working subsonic loads is to mirror what we do for a gun's max: work toward it, but down, not up (mirror image is same, but opposite, right?). That's not to say some ugly problem won't rear its head as you do, so don't think that as you go lighter you won't have something happen that you don't want to have happen.

My other thought: figure the speed of sound as 1040 plus the air temp in Fahrenheit. Ignore wind speed, density altitude, humidity, etc. This has worked for me, but I live in a high, dry climate. If you don't have a chronograph, just listen for the sonic crack and know that's above your limit.

[farmbif]

20 grains of 2400 under one of those 180's ought to reach out and touch something, it aint gonna be sub sonic but why would you want to shoot so slow trying to take down wild hogs. shoot em once and be done with it.
if you were shooting a 400 grain bullet out of a 45-70 or something then sub sonic speed would probably work.

[Gator 45/70]

20 grains of 2400 under one of those 180's ought to reach out and touch something, it aint gonna be sub sonic but why would you want to shoot so slow trying to take down wild hogs. shoot em once and be done with it.
if you were shooting a 400 grain bullet out of a 45-70 or something then sub sonic speed would probably work.

Well trying to keep the noise down so as to not spook the herd, That and having the law called in on us,Granted we do notify the local parish's sheriff's office that we are in the area at night hunting hogs.

[farmbif]

now I understand what you're after. the only thing I ever tried subsonic in was a 300 black out, I won't be doing that anymore, just not my cup of tea.
man for some reason I'm really missing Louisiana this year, no fresh mud bugs, no crawfish boils here in Tennessee and aint nobody know how to make gumbo right and my last batch of red beans and rice just did not do the trick.
I would think a bigger caliber with heavy bullet going slow would get it done good

[Gator 45/70]

now I understand what you're after. the only thing I ever tried subsonic in was a 300 black out, I won't be doing that anymore, just not my cup of tea.
man for some reason I'm really missing Louisiana this year, no fresh mud bugs, no crawfish boils here in Tennessee and aint nobody know how to make gumbo right and my last batch of red beans and rice just did not do the trick.
I would think a bigger caliber with heavy bullet going slow would get it done good

Well Thank you for the food mention, We do those things here in S.Louisiana. I do the boils, Wife knocks out the gumbo, But...

She cheats a bit with smoked sausage and a rotisserie chicken lol

Good stuff that.

[jaysouth]

With a bolt action rifle, you only get one shot at a sounder of hogs. By the time you get a second round loaded, there are no targets left except supersonic hogs running in every direction. I get the noise issue, but not for spooking the pigs. My standard .308 pig load is now a NOE 311041 with gas check, powder coated sitting on top of 28 grs. of H4895. I used that load out of a 16" carbine to kill a 507 lb boar in TN. I had to shoot him 3 times but the bullets penetrated over 3 feet of shoulders and the bullets were lodged under the skin on the other side. That load will penetrate a hundred pound "eatin" pig end to end and pass through.

[Gator 45/70]

With a bolt action rifle, you only get one shot at a sounder of hogs. By the time you get a second round loaded, there are no targets left except supersonic hogs running in every direction. I get the noise issue, but not for spooking the pigs. My standard .308 pig load is now a NOE 311041 with gas check, powder coated sitting on top of 28 grs. of H4895. I used that load out of a 16" carbine to kill a 507 lb boar in TN. I had to shoot him 3 times but the bullets penetrated over 3 feet of shoulders and the bullets were lodged under the skin on the other side. That load will penetrate a hundred pound "eatin" pig end to end and pass through.

Maybe and maybe not? These 2 came from the same herd 30 minutes apart, One I shot thru the throat with a .17 hmr 17 gr. suppressed
2nd one returned to the feeder with about a dozen others, Big D shot the second one with a Grendel.
We waited another 45 minutes and decided there was to much pig blood so the rest would not come back in?
Fat lil sows,Ate well

[Gator 45/70]

Lee has a 230 grain mould that I’ve used subsonic.

Tks, Now to find one?

[robg]

found around 18 grains of 2400 was the most accurate in my savage 116 pre acutrigger

[Gator 45/70]

found around 18 grains of 2400 was the most accurate in my savage 116 pre acutrigger

Tks, I'm surprised at the number of sub sonic shooters in New Zealand of all places? I apricate the load data.

[popper]

Get a BO, 357 or 40SW unless you have another use for the 308. You can run these sub or super in carbine. TG is all that would work in 308. Even 231 is too small a load in large case to work well. With a lever gun, maybe 2 shots - bolt - just one. Ruger PCC 40SW? Or the UGLY HiPoint 40 carbine using glock mags? Even a long barrel 357 revolver?

[Elmer Fudd]

If you're looking to take away sound, how about a suppressor? Even using supersonic ammo, a suppressed gun is more effective at not spooking game than subsonic ammo.

[Gator 45/70]

If you're looking to take away sound, how about a suppressor? Even using supersonic ammo, a suppressed gun is more effective at not spooking game than subsonic ammo.

We have several,I'm using an Omega 300 on the 308 bolt gun, This year I have an ATN Thor 4, Big D my hunting bud is sticking with the green laser light.

The jury is still out on the ATN, I walked at the end of the street on a nice moon-lite night, I could easily make out the horses at 300 yds, The cows were way out in the pasture,
I knew they were cows, But the fine definition or outline wasn't there for perhaps 800+ yards on a black angus cow.

[fastdadio]

I shoot the Lee 170 gr. subsonic in both my 30-30 and 30-06 using TightGroup. 5 grs in the 30-30, and 6 grs in the 06. They do well. So I'd guess at about 5.5 grs, give or take a couple 10ths as a starting point for the .308.

[Gator 45/70]

I shoot the Lee 170 gr. subsonic in both my 30-30 and 30-06 using TightGroup. 5 grs in the 30-30, and 6 grs in the 06. They do well. So I'd guess at about 5.5 grs, give or take a couple 10ths as a starting point for the .308.

TY Sir !

[fastdadio]

TY Sir !

You're most humbly welcome fine Sir. My data is taken from this site;
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

[mattri]

Very interested in this topic.

I'm currently putting together a 308 with a 24" 1:10 that I plan to shoot jwords out of but am looking to work up a sub load as well.

Like the idea of a cast boolit with a nice wide meplat, something along these lines:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/catalogue/31-220H.png

Obviously concerned about stability but guess there's only one way to know for sure:)

[Gator 45/70]

Thanks men,When I can get back to the testing it will more than likely be the 180 gr. gas checked for starters.
Probably do a 5 shot sting, But due to fear of baffle strikes after a couple fired minus the can first to avoid keyholing
In other words, If I see key-holes the can's not going on there until I've worked up enough for a nice round hole in the target.

I don't know if these are still around, But at one time Winchester had put out a few sub-sonic jacketed 185 grain rounds

Friend of mine had gotten a box from the rep, I pulled 1 apart and weighed the donut shaped powder.
I want to say 10.8 grains of possibly bullseye powder?

Any other donut powder out there besides bullseye?

[mattri]

TrailBoss?

One of the advantages to a cast boolit over a jword is that in theory anyway you ought to be able to get a heavy boolit at a shorter length. I plan to use a soft (heavy) alloy as well, no worries about leading at sub speeds. Stability is really about length so keeping them short should help.

[Larry Gibson]

Bullseye is a flake powder, not a "donut" powder.

Bullseye also is the best choice for subsonic loads in most every rifle cartridge as it ignites easily in larger cases reducing position sensitivity. It also will produce the smallest amount of gas and the lowest muzzle exit pressure; the smaller the charge of any powder for a given velocity [such as sub sonic at 1050 fps] under a given bullet the less "noise" will be made with, or with out, a suppressor.

In a 10" twist 308W I've shot a lot of cast at sub sonic velocity and never had a stability issue even when well below sonic using bullets up through 1.2" (GC'd 311299) in length. Also with WFN bullets you can have feeding issues with staggered magazine fed rifles. I always found the Lyman 311041 (178 gr fully dressed) to be adequate for the job at 1090 fps. Also the blunter the nose , or flatter, the lower the velocity will be before the bullet starts to snap or crack on exit from the suppressor.

[Gator 45/70]

TrailBoss?

One of the advantages to a cast boolit over a jword is that in theory anyway you ought to be able to get a heavy boolit at a shorter length. I plan to use a soft (heavy) alloy as well, no worries about leading at sub speeds. Stability is really about length so keeping them short should help.

Sorry, I meant trailboss,Thanks

[Gator 45/70]

Bullseye is a flake powder, not a "donut" powder.

Bullseye also is the best choice for subsonic loads in most every rifle cartridge as it ignites easily in larger cases reducing position sensitivity. It also will produce the smallest amount of gas and the lowest muzzle exit pressure; the smaller the charge of any powder for a given velocity [such as sub sonic at 1050 fps] under a given bullet the less "noise" will be made with, or with out, a suppressor.

In a 10" twist 308W I've shot a lot of cast at sub sonic velocity and never had a stability issue even when well below sonic using bullets up through 1.2" (GC'd 311299) in length. Also with WFN bullets you can have feeding issues with staggered magazine fed rifles. I always found the Lyman 311041 (178 gr fully dressed) to be adequate for the job at 1090 fps. Also the blunter the nose , or flatter, the lower the velocity will be before the bullet starts to snap or crack on exit from the suppressor.

Thanks Mr.Gibson, Brain sneeze on my end, Thinking trailboss typed bullseye, There once was a thread on here by Bruce B, May he rest in peace
The old gent was doing a lot of pistol powder testing in the 308's and had posted a lot of recipes.
What ever happened to the thread,My search-fu powers are lacking today?
EDIT,I've located the BruceB thread

[mattri]

Link?

[Gator 45/70]

Link?

Here is BruceB's loads put together by Jack,After looking this over he was primarly in the 1700/2100 fps range on 99 % of his loads.

Very interesting project Bruce was doing

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186466&d=1485639602

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?3558-7-62x51-NATO-(-308-WCF)-in-the-Springfield-M1A

[popper]

oops, didn't know you already had the 308. Short story, friend's wife (good shot) hit a hog (7 mag bolt gun) couldn't chamber a new rnd before the hog was lost in underbrush. I tried a head/neck shot @ 50 with BO and he ducked it! Unfortunately, last rnd in the mag. Another guy hit 13 of 15 220gr BO sub @ 100 and still never found the hog. Isn't so much the gun shot but the whack when you hit one that spooks them.

[Gator 45/70]

oops, didn't know you already had the 308. Short story, friend's wife (good shot) hit a hog (7 mag bolt gun) couldn't chamber a new rnd before the hog was lost in underbrush. I tried a head/neck shot @ 50 with BO and he ducked it! Unfortunately, last rnd in the mag. Another guy hit 13 of 15 220gr BO sub @ 100 and still never found the hog. Isn't so much the gun shot but the whack when you hit one that spooks them.

Lol, I have poured corn in a row strait back to the stand and waited....Sure enough about 8/9 lil porkers ran out and being pigs they are they line up shoulder to shoulder to eat, I waited until 2 I wanted lined up, Bang went the 308, 2 pigs down 1 shot.

I loaded them up and when I returned to the camp one old man was like, You got 2 pigs ?
Me, yes sir
Old man, I only heard 1 shot ?
Me, Yes sir, I let em line up, Shot thru one and the bullet exploded hitting the second pig in the neck, lung, liver.
lol true story !

[robg]

wales uk not new zealand

[Gator 45/70]

wales uk not new zealand

Oh,sorry about that, I hope that's not an insult about New Zealand and all ?

Is there a good number of rifle casters and reloaders in the area?

Only knowing very little about gun ownership in the UK, Like you have to be in a club I think?

[trudd]

Hello everyone, 1st post here and trying to get into casting -

I have the 230gr lee mold on the way, and a similar hope to get a load in a suppressed 30-06 that works for a "quiet " varmit/hog first shot - any experience with what alloys are suitable for subsonic use in this situation? I'm thinking something soft enough to potentially expand instead of pencil thru.

Thanks,
Terry

[robg]

Oh,sorry about that, I hope that's not an insult about New Zealand and all ?

Is there a good number of rifle casters and reloaders in the area?

Only knowing very little about gun ownership in the UK, Like you have to be in a club I think?

a club or land to shoot over .no insult over new zealand.we have to jump through hoops to get a licence,have to renew every 5 years .