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Burnt Fingers
03-10-2021, 02:20 PM
A mold I'd like to see would be a copy of the 45 ACP Lyman Devastator boolit in a multi-cavity mold. A copy of the 9mm mold would be great too.

No existing mold I've seen has the huge hollow point of that 45 ACP Devastator.

dbosman
03-10-2021, 08:48 PM
Are you referring to the SC 180GR 452374 HP
https://www.lymanproducts.com/sc-180gr-452374-hp
Current Price:
$101.95
Temporarily out of stock: available for backorder
SKU: 2650374

Weight: 0.875 lb
SC 180GR 452374 HP
Product number: 2650374

dbosman
03-10-2021, 08:52 PM
Lyman 1-Cavity Bullet Mold #356637 9mm (356 Diameter) 124 Grain Devastator Hollow Point Bevel Base
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010237256

Burnt Fingers
03-11-2021, 12:01 PM
Those are the ones.

la5676
03-11-2021, 12:05 PM
Those are the ones.

I've got that one in 9mm. Are you interested in it?

Good Cheer
03-12-2021, 08:40 AM
Lyman's old #452484 gas checked version of the .45 hardball round nose becomes a humdinger of a splat boolit when Erik at hollowpointmold.com turns it into a wide mouthed hollow pointed WFN. Any how, that was the route I explored. Because it has the perfect exterior contour there's little chance of not feeding and the gas check helps a little if you want to go extra goofy soft on your alloy. I like having enough mass to keep on pushing through after the boolit turns into a drag chute.

Burnt Fingers
03-12-2021, 02:06 PM
I've got that one in 9mm. Are you interested in it?

I actually have two of the 9mm molds myself.

I'd like to have them in a multi-cavity setup.

Those Lyman molds are SLOW casting.

bluejay75
03-12-2021, 02:44 PM
I actually have two of the 9mm molds myself.

I'd like to have them in a multi-cavity setup.

Those Lyman molds are SLOW casting.

I will have Bob draw them up. If he hasn’t already and run them. Exact clones correct? Same in 40 as well?

Burnt Fingers
03-13-2021, 05:05 PM
That would be great.

who
03-21-2021, 10:34 AM
.40cal or 10mm would be nice.

bowfin
03-22-2021, 12:28 PM
I would be interested in the .40, .45, or 9mm.

Wasalmonslayer
03-22-2021, 10:52 PM
Is Bob drawing this or do you guys need an assist to get her rollin?

Burnt Fingers
03-23-2021, 10:59 AM
I don't know if Bob is drawing it or not.

If not we could use and assist.

My drawing skills are VERY limited. I can draw a straight line with a straight edge about 30% of the time.

Wasalmonslayer
03-23-2021, 01:20 PM
Let me know I can assist if needed.

I would be in for one in each caliber as well.
Have a couple “homemade” hp that are like a flying ash tray they make a nice mess of vermin :)

Burnt Fingers
03-24-2021, 03:19 PM
Those Devastator molds are flying ash trays. Just really slow to pour.

If boolits are needed for measurements I can supply the 45 and 9mm.

If this gets going I'm in for one of each caliber, 9mm, 10mm, and 45.

thraxx
03-25-2021, 04:21 AM
can someone explain the difference between the 452374 HP and this? (a 452-640, I think?)

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-452-200-hp-4-cav/

Wasalmonslayer
03-25-2021, 08:39 AM
can someone explain the difference between the 452374 HP and this? (a 452-640, I think?)

https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-452-200-hp-4-cav/

The 452374 is the Lyman version of the round nose 230 ball round. The 452 460 is lymans SWC design that weights in around 200 grains.

The 452374 is what the 45 Devastator is made out of with a huge hp added.

The link you posted in MP mold 200 grain flat nose hp design.
It shoots just as good as the others you mentioned from Lyman maybe better in some instances.

Hope that helps
WS

Burnt Fingers
03-25-2021, 01:19 PM
Wasalmonslayer got it right.

I have that MP mold. The hollow point is much smaller than the Devastator hollow point.

thraxx
03-25-2021, 02:19 PM
Thanks for the clarification, WS!


I have that MP mold. The hollow point is much smaller than the Devastator hollow point.

I own one as well, If the HP on the devastator is larger, then, wow. just wow. :D

bronte454
03-26-2021, 12:46 AM
I would love a 3-4 cavity MP-mold with HP pins . I would be more inclined if it would drop a little heavier say 135 grains with the penta HP maybe 130 range with large HP .

Burnt Fingers
03-26-2021, 12:40 PM
Thanks for the clarification, WS!



I own one as well, If the HP on the devastator is larger, then, wow. just wow. :D

I'll see if I can get some pics today.

Burnt Fingers
03-26-2021, 05:32 PM
Here are some pics of the 45 and 9mm Devastator boolit.

280220

As you can see the hollow point is HUGE!


Here's the 9mm. The basis for this is the 147 gr Lyman boolit.

280221

I don't have the 40/10mm version.

thraxx
03-30-2021, 11:46 AM
I'd be interested in a 4-cav for the 9mm, .40, and .45

OS OK
03-30-2021, 12:30 PM
I am not convinced that 'big wide cavities' in the HP's make any appreciable difference in the 'splat or mushroom' size.

https://i.imgur.com/gjULSLW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/moogt0V.jpg?1

In fact, the wide open design can be a liability, they can foul very easily & not develop the pressure to open them up. Silicone in the HP cavity will help expansion and prevent clogging.
I've tried a number of things for 'plugs', hot glue and silicone caulking, the pure silicon does not shrink over time in storage...

https://i.imgur.com/xd1AzZb.jpg

On the other side of this, that big open HP can be very hard to keep together so it maintains weight and gets the best penetration.
If we don't make an effort to control our alloy for HP's then we can have the results below...

https://i.imgur.com/eZRkHol.jpg

If your lead blend is too hard, not malleable enough, then you might as well be shooting a RNFP...you'll get fails like this...

https://i.imgur.com/j1Hbvum.jpg

I think MP has already made a fantastic cast HP mould... the MP 452-200... it feeds flawlessly in the 1911.

https://i.imgur.com/CtetNVw.jpg

Their 'penta' cavity I think is the easiest and most fool proof of the cavity designs...they open easy and stay together.

https://i.imgur.com/rtFkWLc.jpg

The bottom line with HP's is how much effort you put into blending your alloy for the speed & distance you want to hit at.

thraxx
03-30-2021, 02:08 PM
What PC color is that on the far left (the one that looks like fresh copper)? It looks pretty real.

bluejay75
03-30-2021, 09:58 PM
I should hear back in a few days. If some of you can send sample bullets I will cover shipping for them. I have the design software but will defer to Bob for his expertise on chamber fit and such.

Michael J. Spangler
03-30-2021, 11:48 PM
I am not convinced that 'big wide cavities' in the HP's make any appreciable difference in the 'splat or mushroom' size.

https://i.imgur.com/gjULSLW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/moogt0V.jpg?1

In fact, the wide open design can be a liability, they can foul very easily & not develop the pressure to open them up. Silicone in the HP cavity will help expansion and prevent clogging.
I've tried a number of things for 'plugs', hot glue and silicone caulking, the pure silicon does not shrink over time in storage...

https://i.imgur.com/xd1AzZb.jpg

On the other side of this, that big open HP can be very hard to keep together so it maintains weight and gets the best penetration.
If we don't make an effort to control our alloy for HP's then we can have the results below...

https://i.imgur.com/eZRkHol.jpg

If your lead blend is too hard, not malleable enough, then you might as well be shooting a RNFP...you'll get fails like this...

https://i.imgur.com/j1Hbvum.jpg

I think MP has already made a fantastic cast HP mould... the MP 452-200... it feeds flawlessly in the 1911.

https://i.imgur.com/CtetNVw.jpg

Their 'penta' cavity I think is the easiest and most fool proof of the cavity designs...they open easy and stay together.

https://i.imgur.com/rtFkWLc.jpg

The bottom line with HP's is how much effort you put into blending your alloy for the speed & distance you want to hit at.

So you feel that the penta pin opens up easier and more consistently? I’ve worked with the 454-200 HP and I can’t seem to get it to open up for me with the round pin. I lost my penta pins but I have since picked up a 359-640 with penta pins and she opens up like a dream!

I’m trying to drive the 454-200 as fast as I can find data for in a 45 Colt 4 5/8” and in a 5” 1911 but no dice on expansion.

Do you think it’s all the pin?

Your work in the post above is beautiful and inspiring!

OS OK
03-31-2021, 10:46 PM
What PC color is that on the far left (the one that looks like fresh copper)? It looks pretty real.

It's been about 4 years since I bought it, I got that (Copper) and Brass at the same time & I think it's Sherman Williams. I bought it off a local PC Contractor who does PC for a living (you bring him stuff & he coats it)...he gave them to me in quart baggies and they had no label.

https://i.imgur.com/1tSpghu.jpg

I'm pretty sure Smoke sells the same thing, well...same color, don't know who makes it.

Sorry

OS OK
03-31-2021, 11:31 PM
So you feel that the penta pin opens up easier and more consistently? Iíve worked with the 454-200 HP and I canít seem to get it to open up for me with the round pin. I lost my penta pins but I have since picked up a 359-640 with penta pins and she opens up like a dream!

Iím trying to drive the 454-200 as fast as I can find data for in a 45 Colt 4 5/8Ē and in a 5Ē 1911 but no dice on expansion.

Do you think itís all the pin?

Your work in the post above is beautiful and inspiring!

Thanks for your kind words, I appreciate that.

The last picture above gives my load for my 5" Kimber 1911, it's not a +P...with that 9.8 BHN lead, (just soft lead I got from someone here years back) and Tin, I forget the blend right off...but if you can blend up some at 8 or 8.5 BHN you should get the Colt SAA to open them up at around 850 FPS. The picture of the black SWCHP's above was opened in my Colt SAA.

I don't water quench casting or after the PC bake, just air cooled. These were all tested in a water column but they'll do the same in gel or wet newsprint. If they're clogging they won't open...that's why I started using silicone, pure stuff that don't harden or shrink. No matter what they hit, jeans material or cotton t's prior to the water jug it makes the pressure in the cavity instantly and before they start loosing speed and energy.
Folks might not realize it but a HP going into a water filled milk jug at 908 FPS will mushroom completely and exit at 450 FPS...looses 1/2 it's speed and energy. I know because I put my chronograph behind a jug and clocked the mushroom as it exited the busted jug.

https://i.imgur.com/rnNHlqE.jpg

I don't generally make the HP's for magnum velocities, like you I play with the Colt SAA & the 1911's or the .38S, but as a rule of thumb, using a binary blend of lead and tin...you can figure 1 BHN for every 100 FPS you intend to shoot and hit with them, that generally gives you roughly a +/-50 FPS window on each side of the velocity you figure as a cushion.
You just have to experiment with small batches of blended lead until you get what you want. It's difficult using the typical lead we casters come by because we can never be sure what it's contents are, but it's a lot of fun, you learn real quick what works and not.
I have a lot of videos on various HP cavities and lead blends on my channel if your interested, got some good jug busting too.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5mfCQYNW1hfrgepvqCDsg/videos

One of the things I like about working the penta style cavities is that when they open they form 'gussets' (braces) below each petal, that gives them strength if your really pushing them hard, the petals take a heck of a lot before you start tearing them off.

https://i.imgur.com/jlL2A3Y.jpg

These are what I call 'tricorn's' (3 sided cavities) but the penta does the same thing...these were pushed real hard, I wanted to get better penetration and still keep all it's weight intact.

https://i.imgur.com/48VV2kj.jpg

Best of luck to'Ya!

https://i.imgur.com/T5w7IMe.jpg

Michael J. Spangler
04-01-2021, 06:47 PM
Great info thank you!

I have a feeling my alloy was a bit hard. Now that I think back my alloy was analyzed and I believe it had about zero tin. Now if memory serves me correctly a binary alloy of lead and antimony will harden faster and harder than a tertiary alloy with tin in there.

So I probably had a touch too much harness looking back on it.

The best results I had with that 359640 was with an alloy that lacked any antimony at all apparently. The opened up perfectly and even under a higher velocity belt together beautifully.

Lead analysis is awesome but it tends to make you rethink everything. Rethink what the composition of your supposed wheel weights or lead shot was. Make you rethink what alloy will suffice in a given load.
It’s pretty cool.

I can’t wait to get a couple more hollow point moulds to play with!

autodidact
04-06-2021, 02:11 PM
I would be in for the 45 ACP and 9mm versions, especially if offered without lube grooves.

cwlongshot
04-06-2021, 07:13 PM
I would also be interested in a 40cal Devastator. ;)

CW

Cargo
04-07-2021, 09:00 PM
The 40 cal would be outstanding

cwlongshot
04-08-2021, 04:48 AM
I traded for some on here some years back. I have watched for a mold to pop up to no avail.

Id be interested in the purchase of a 40 Devestator. IIRC they was about 135g ish.

CW