44 special/ mag expander plug questions.

[Bazoo]

Some of y'all might recall I've been having leading issues with my super blackhawk. Well I missed this somewhere, thought I checked it but... Pulled a bullet and the base is swaged down. On a .431 sized bullet the rear driving band was .428. The RCBS 44-245-SWC has a short rear driving band. The other bands were not sized down, so I guess the base opens up the way.

Well I am going to get some expander plugs for 44 magnum. If I size .431 what size expander do I need so my bullets ain't sized down? .429? .430?

Can I get by with the same plug if I size to .430 later on?

[DougGuy]

What dies are you using, and what is the diameter of the existing plug? Does the expander part look like it's long enough? If it isn't, the diameter may not be the problem but the length could be.

[Bazoo]

RCBS die set, the expander is .425. I have an Lyman M die and it's expander is more like .4265. Both are long enough. Both give the same .428 bullet base.

I neck expanded some cases I had broke down, and reseating the same make of bullets produced the same results.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

For .431 boolits I've used this one; https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/431-x-427-p-exp-plug/

You do need the Lee universal expander set to use it though. Is your alloy too soft?

[oley55]

I have been wondering the very same and having similar swaging of my bullet base in the case problems. So I have been rapidly moving towards the NOE expanders, as well as their bullet sizers since they are so reasonably priced. Below is a cut n paste quote/answer to a question asked on the NOE forums. It speaks to 357, but the basic sizing requirements should be the same.

If I'm reading this correctly, for your finished sized .431" cast bullet you would want the .433 x .429 expander, which is in stock: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/expanders/expander-plug-pistol/433-x-429-p-exp-plug/

I hope it helps you, I have on order a number of different expanders to meet the needs of various revolvers n calibers, if available. You have to catch them in-stock to order them. No back orders accepted on the expanders. These expanders are used in the Lee Universal Expander Die, which is available on back order from NOE or currently in stock at Midway and Midsouth. A caution, if your NOE order does include a back-ordered item the whole order will sit until the back-ordered items are in.


Generally speaking expander plugs should be 2 thou over and 2 thou under bullet diameter, you want no more than 2 thou bullet retention.

In each case you have chosen 4 thou bullet retention which risks bullet deformation.

.357" would need a .359 x .355 expander.

.358" would need a .360 x .356 expander.

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,2773.0.html

edit added: as per cosmic charlie's post while I was typing, NOE provides little in the way of explanation and I remain confused. That's why I am ordering sizes to cover all of my bases. Because I do not personally know (yet).

edit 2: at 04:50 this guys explains the noe sizing numbers. He does quite a few NOE videos and is located just a few mile from NOE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9waFJCbrt0 His explanation differs slightly from the quote I pasted above. :confused:

edit 3: this 2016 castboolits thread is pretty informative: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?303063-Can-someone-explain-NOE-expander-plugs-and-dimensions

[Bazoo]

Thanks Oley. I researched the noe numbers, simple, the first is the mouth opening and second is the expander plug size.

I'm not big on lee products and wish I had another option other than their die body.


This has been with both WW+Sn alloy and ww/Pb 50/50+Sn alloy.

I've not pulled any gas checked bullets yet to see how they fair. I assume without pulling some that they won't swage down. But I'm going to check.

I thought I'd pulled some bullets before and checked this, but I tell ya I feel stupid for overlooking it as I know better.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I powder coat my handgun boolits now. No leading anymore. And I have been using the Lee powder through expanders. I should pull a boolit just to see if they have been sized down by the case. I use the NOE expanders on 9mm cases and also for my .30 cal. rifles. I like some others here use the first larger number to match my bullet size and the smaller number then gives good retention.

[Nobade]

This is why nearly all my handgun die sets have larger expander plugs in them that I have made. The 44 has a .431" IIRC since I use .433" bullets to fit my big Marlin barrel.

[6thtexas]

In my experience, if you call RCBS they will set you up with a larger expander plug, although the pandemic may be slower down their customer service.

[Rick B]

RCBS makes a stock .428 expander plug. It's shipped in the Cowboy sets. Midway used to sell the full line of RCBS Cowboy expander plugs separately. They ran about 6.50. The RCBS Cowboy dies were designed to load cast bullets. Therefore the larger expander plug. The standard die sets for .429 jacketed bullets came with a .425 - .426 expander. With a cast bullet .003 neck tension is ideal. Followed by a good roll crimp. Contacting RCBS Parts, will result in finding a .428 expander.
Rick

[Bazoo]

I appreciate the replies.

I called RCBS and they are going to send me a couple expander plugs for my set, .428 and .430. I'm happy as always with their service.

How will .001 bullet tension do to hold my bullets in place under recoil? I do use a healthy crimp.

[Rick B]

With full house loads .003 neck tension promotes very reliable functioning. Along with a healthy roll crimp.
Rick

[leadhead]

Are those NOE expander plugs drilled thru for powder drop?
leadhead

[oley55]

Are those NOE expander plugs drilled thru for powder drop?
leadhead

Nope, not that I'm aware of. :(

[leadhead]

No good to me then..... I guess I could drill it myself.
leadhead