Polyfill in .223 cast loads ?

[Wolfdog91]

So been having decent success with my casing for my AR problem is one if my powders isn't giving me 100% burn . From what I've read and been told it's probably because there not a ton of it in the case and being a ball powder so it's not burning completely. Now I read about folks using fillers like dacron (apparently dacron and poly fill are the same thing ?) In larger calibers but wanted to know is there anything specific you need to do for smaller calibers ? Like seem all I need to do is buy a bag of poly fill from Walmart and stuff a little wad in the case on top of the powder to keep it in place buuuut figured it can't be that easy lol.
So is it that easy or is there something special that need to be done with a gas gun ?

[TjB101]

Never used filler for 223 cast. (Yes to 45-70 with certain powders).

Played with Unique, 2400, H110 and Bullseye. Favorite has been 4.0gr of Bullseye with 60gr gaschecked PC 224. Got another box at 4.2gr to test next range session.

Do tell if you find an accurate load. Read a few threads of a guy pushing CFE223 at 17 to 20gr. Haven’t tried that yet.

[Larry Gibson]

I use a dacron filler in cast bullet 223 loads if I expect a gas gun to function or if pushing the velocity envelop with medium burning powders. I didn't use ball powders normally used with 223/5/56 jacketed bullet loads because they are harder to ignite and do not burn as efficiently as extruded powders. I've found H4895 and RL 7 to work best but there are others that will also work. With the smaller loads used giving less pressure using the dacron filler gives the best results.

You do not want to "stuff a little wad in the case on top of the powder to keep it in place". That is a "wad" not a filler. Using a "wad' can cause some problems which are not good. Use a filler.

Suggest you read this thread; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers

[blackthorn]

There are many threads here on the use of filler. Well worth a search-and-read.

[gwpercle]

Don't use fillers in bottle necked cases ... it is possible to have problems ... straight walled cases are usually not a problem .
Rather than resort to a filler with ball powder your best bet is change powders to something easier to ignite and more case filling ,
What powder , charge , boolit and velocity are you using now and maybe we can help with your problem.
Fiber fillers are more complicated than ripping off a wad and shoving it down into the case ...
you put stuff into a case and it's going to go somewhere when you fire the round .
Gary

[Hick]

Don't use fillers in bottle necked cases

This flies in the face of a whole lot of experience with a whole lot of guns

[waksupi]

I wouldn't use filler in that case. A .223 shold be using a powder that takes up pretty much all the space. My loads for jacketed bullets were a case full of BL-C2, filled completely up to the mouth of the case and compression loaded. You should be able to find a powder that fills to the bullet base with no compression for cast in a .223.

[Larry Gibson]

Don't use fillers in bottle necked cases ... Gary

"This flies in the face of a whole lot of experience with a whole lot of guns"

That it does......

[gwpercle]

"This flies in the face of a whole lot of experience with a whole lot of guns"

That it does......
Okay ... I'm totally wrong .
Then explain to Wolfdog91 and myself how it's done in his situation ... cast boolit , 223 , ball powder and incomplete burn ...both he and I would like to know the proper and safe way to do it .
Gary

[Larry Gibson]

Okay ... I'm totally wrong .
Then explain to Wolfdog91 and myself how it's done in his situation ... cast boolit , 223 , ball powder and incomplete burn ...both he and I would like to know the proper and safe way to do it .
Gary

First of all let me state many times what we want to use just isn't going to work the way we think it should. My considerable experience with the 223/5.56 cartridge in ARs goes back to '65. and reloading the cartridges for gas guns, bolt actions and single shots goes back to '70. I first started loading cast bullets in the 223/5/56 in '72.

So with that in mind I do not recommend using any ball powder normally used in ARs with cast bullets, especially with 55 gr cast bullets using 748 powder. While ball powders can be made to work I never found them to work well, especially not as well as with more suitable powders. The ball powders normally used in this cartridge for jacketed bullet use just do not ignite well and burn efficiently at the lower pressures used with cast bullets. Winchester 748 being at the slow end of the ball powders available for use with 55 gr jacketed bullets just does not develop the psi needed for it to ignite or burn efficiently. A dacron filler will help a little but will not eliminate the problem of "incomplete burn".

Wolfdog91 appears, from the video, to be using 20 gr +/- of 748 under the 55 gr Lee "Bator" cast bullet. With a 55 gr jacketed bullet one must use 28 gr +/- to achieve 3000 fps +/- out of a 20" barrel and even then the psi will be quite low for the cartridge. Using 20 gr under the 55 gr cast bullet simply does not give the psi for 748 to burn efficiently. If you read the thread I mention in my 1st post in this thread on the proper use of a dacron filler my 1st post there will explain the safe way to use a filler, not only in this 223/5/56 cartridge but any other. In the 223/5.56 using 20 gr of 748 fills the case to the base of the neck about 2/3 to 3/4 full. I suggest using a 1/2 gr dacron filler as per my suggested method. That should help some but, as mentioned, I doubt it will solve the problem.

For Wolfdog91 what I do suggest is a switch to a more suitable powder that ignites and burns more efficiently at the lower psi's a cast bullet load generates. I suggest RL7 or h4895. I suggest starting at 14 gr and work up using the dacron filler with the Lee 55 gr cast bullet to reliable functioning if that is desired in the AR. That is where, given the faster twists of newer ARs, the best accuracy will also be. That will be in the 1850 - 2000 fps range. If only shooting at 50 yards, as tested in the video, you may be satisfied with the accuracy at the velocity level you are getting. However, if intending to shoot further such as 100 or 200 yards then, at the velocity level you are achieving, accuracy may be disappointing.

[Wolfdog91]

So not able to answer eveything right now but these are the powders I have in hand and the only one I'm going to have for a while it seems , y'all older guys gotta remember not eveyone has 30 years worth or saved up reloading stuff lol. And I'm not just shooting at 50 I'm just doing my initial work up at 50 . If it's not storing good at 50 I'm not gonna waste my time trying to figure out if it's me or the gun or wind or something at 100yd.
Also so far the best power I have accuracy waise is Accurate 2015 not 748. I wish I could get 748 shooting as well as 2015, that being said ithers some things with sizing that I think are gonna help but that's later on down the line
279338

[Wolfdog91]

And thanks for all the responses btw

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

H4895 works well for me without a filler.
There aren't many powders that will be accurate and cycle cast boolit ammo in 556 AR.
If you want to play that game, I think you need to scout out some powder as like Larry suggests.

[tomme boy]

H322 you have will work perfect. Start at 17gr and work up. 322 is a excellent powder and is easy to ignite. You shouldn't need any dacron either. The 2015 I have not used but it is right there with 322 as to speed.

Rl7 or 4198 if you happen across it

[Larry Gibson]

H322 you have will work perfect. Start at 17gr and work up. 322 is a excellent powder and is easy to ignite. You shouldn't need any dacron either. The 2015 I have not used but it is right there with 322 as to speed.

Rl7 or 4198 if you happen across it

tomme boy answered your question........