Shake and Bake , not to my liking

[Keith Haveman]

Tried the shake and bake method and I'm not impressed , or I'm doing it wrong . Defiantly like the way my coating comes out when I stand each boolit upright .

[blueeyephil]

I think the powder you use may make a difference. I have some candy blue I really like the coverage. Then I have some gloss black that doesn't seem to cover as well. But I think the coverage is good but the pigment is a bit spotty. Because there is clear everywhere. And you can always stand them on their base if you want to. Just use nitrel gloves and get a little powder on your fingers. Might give it a couple of tries.

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[oley55]

Don't give up yet. I've only done a half dozen sessions of shake n bake so far, but have been really happy with my results. I have been standing my bullets up and am too pleased to give the dump and bake a try, but I will eventually I suppose. I read, prepared and watched a bunch of videos for at least two months before I finally jumped in. The blue speckled are my first batches, followed by the granite and my last was the clear with a pinch of black. If I can do it, most anybody can. But then again, I haven't done enough to have encountered a problem to overcome.

There are a bunch of really experienced PC folks here that can help you out, but I'm sure they will need more details about your process and specific results.

[reddog81]

What's the problem?

I use shake and bake and stand up all my bullets... For any sort of guidance we'd need to know what you are doing and what the problems are. Shake and bake is simple if you have the right components. You need the correct container, some powders work much better than others, the right kind of BB's can help, humidity can wreak havoc on some powders, baking at the correct temp is necessary. There are other problems a person can have but those are the main ones.

[Keith Haveman]

The main problem is the sticking together . I have good coverage and the stand up one look awesome , but the shake and bakes I don't like the way they turn out . LOL Using Eastwood powder , got a over thermometer so I know it's at 400 and again it might be timing droping them in water .

[FLINTNFIRE]

If you are referring to baking and then dumping on hardware cloth dump so they are spread out not piled on top of each other and as soon as baking is done pull and shake them off or dump them if they set for a minute or more as temperature drops they will be stuck together , one other thing in doing the them that way with success is to shake excess powder off .

I find that perfect is picking each one and standing upright , but you can shake in your container and dump in a colander or other tub with holes to let airsoft bbs out and swirl shake and toss till excess powder is off and as long as they coated good to begin with they seem to bake just fine as long as they are quickly removed and dumped from trays and I do not have any sticking bullets done that way , then I check for missed bbs in hollow points as while they are still hot they are no problem to remove , then I shift them to another tray to check for sticking and to assist in cooling quicker .

But if it works better for you by standing them up then do it however it works best for you , I have done both and find I can shake dump and bake a lot more in less time and I am still getting coverage that is consistent and without issues , but use whatever method or way works best as only you through trying different things can decide what works best and meets your needs .

[Coopaloop86]

I have found that some powders work far better than others. Smokes clear and silver are almost impossible to mess up. You can shake and bake this stuff in a rainstorm and it flat works. The black shades require a little more love.

[GregLaROCHE]

Don't give up yet. I've only done a half dozen sessions of shake n bake so far, but have been really happy with my results. I have been standing my bullets up and am too pleased to give the dump and bake a try, but I will eventually I suppose. I read, prepared and watched a bunch of videos for at least two months before I finally jumped in. The blue speckled are my first batches, followed by the granite and my last was the clear with a pinch of black. If I can do it, most anybody can. But then again, I haven't done enough to have encountered a problem to overcome.

There are a bunch of really experienced PC folks here that can help you out, but I'm sure they will need more details about your process and specific results.

That clear with a bit of black looks the most like real lead that I’ve seen good job.

[dverna]

If you are not liking the surface finish due to wire mesh marks or bullets sticking together, I doubt they will have any noticeable difference on pistol bullet performance.

Flintandfire gave good advice.

[AlHunt]

Tried the shake and bake method and I'm not impressed , or I'm doing it wrong . Defiantly like the way my coating comes out when I stand each boolit upright .

Yeah, they have a few lumps and bruises when baked in a pile. Once in a while, I'll recycle one just because the imperfections are on the driving bands. But they shoot fine.

The key for me is to have a big cardboard box ready when I take the pile out of the oven and SLAM it into the box. Then break them up with a plastic screwdriver handle. It gets most of them. The rest I separate on the reloading bench by laying a towel over them and tapping with a plastic ...something. Whatever is close at hand. The towel keeps them from skittering across the room.

If I were doing a couple hundred larger rifle bullets, I'd probably stand them up just because they looks so nice. Pistol bullets by the thousands? Pile and slam.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I do not find I have to slam them , I remove as soon as oven stops and with gloves on I turn racks straight over onto pans and they fall out I am filling hardware cloth completely full trying to maintain single layer without having very many laying on top of others , I have been distracted and oven ended and then I have had bullets stuck together .

I am finding that it is hard to see any difference between batch done this way and standing each one up , my racks measure 13x15 and that was bigger then my pans with silicone sheets , shake all excess powder off , I am using smokes powders different colors and I do believe that keeping bullets spread on racks not piled up is keeping this as good as it is doing .

When I allowed them to cool a little some were bonded together in groups of 2 -3 or 4 I shook them out and the ones that did not separate easily I tried smacking them , bad idea put dents or marks , those went back into pot to be recast .

I have done large sessions of powder coating , standing them up and as they bake start standing others up in trays , after 3 coffee cans full of bullets 9mm size it was a literal pain in the neck , so I tried the shake and bake dump on cloth method and I am enjoying it a lot more , and having done a trade with a guy where I made 120 lbs of bullets split between 9mm and 357 in a 2 day cast and coat I did not have any stuck together or having issues .

[flyingmonkey35]

You doingbv the shake n bake in a pile or stand up on thier own.

I have acceptable results with bake in pile.

I have great results with standing.

I have fantaistc result with espc. So its really up to you.

Since i just do pistol bullets and i basicly shoot steel or paper. I dont care how ugly they look as long as i dont get leading im happy.

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[Keith Haveman]

Sounds like my timing is off as to getting the boolets out of the oven when the timer goes off . LOL Get busy doing other stuff and the hearing ain't so good any more so I miss the ding . LOL

[FLINTNFIRE]

Sounds like my timing is off as to getting the boolets out of the oven when the timer goes off . LOL Get busy doing other stuff and the hearing ain't so good any more so I miss the ding . LOL

You and me both I am so deaf I have to watch timer or be real close , and then my issue was getting on here and going oh crap and it was to late , just try it single layer and right out of oven dump on flat tray or I put my 4 baking trays tight together , let us know if it helps or if it does not . Best of luck

[Conditor22]

It's all about what powder you use and removing all the excess powder.

some powders the coat excellent ASBBDT standing up will stick like the dickens with shake and bake.

I have some powders that coat great/easy and rarely stick S&B and others that you need a pneumatic chisel to separate :bigsmyl2:

I haven't found that baking too long is a problem, just too short or at too low a temperature.

I found these timers to be plenty loud https://www.amazon.com/Blossmfree-Kitchen-Classroom-Operation-Magnetic/dp/B086J1MJP3/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=Magnetic+Digital+Kitchen+Timer+with+Large +LCD&qid=1615314703&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&s=home-garden&sr=1-6

[Keith Haveman]

Don't look like earth quake timers to me LOL Hard of hearing and tones play a big part of what I hear anymore , wife get ticked at time having to repeat herself with some words . hehe

[reddog81]

The main problem is the sticking together . I have good coverage and the stand up one look awesome , but the shake and bakes I don't like the way they turn out . LOL Using Eastwood powder , got a over thermometer so I know it's at 400 and again it might be timing droping them in water .

A few imperfections aren't going to hurt anything. Just knock them loose from one another and proceed as normal. Or take the time to stand them all up individually.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Pull them out hot they separate a lot easier with few to no imperfections , or mine do with smokes powders . Have had no reason to buy any others as 8 lbs last a long time and the poor loading benches are held solid by all the ready to load bullets .

[AndyC]

my last was the clear with a pinch of black.
Rowrrrr.... those are cool!

Question - do you do the black and clear mixed together, or one color/bake/next color? Second, what ratio would you say between clear and black, because those look amazing.

[AndyC]

Don't give up yet. I've only done a half dozen sessions of shake n bake so far, but have been really happy with my results. I have been standing my bullets up and am too pleased to give the dump and bake a try, but I will eventually I suppose. I read, prepared and watched a bunch of videos for at least two months before I finally jumped in. The blue speckled are my first batches, followed by the granite and my last was the clear with a pinch of black. If I can do it, most anybody can. But then again, I haven't done enough to have encountered a problem to overcome.

https://i.imgur.com/XnmdqHc.jpg

There are a bunch of really experienced PC folks here that can help you out, but I'm sure they will need more details about your process and specific results.
Best I can do so far - the only black I have is HF, so I'll have to get some of Smoke's:

https://i.imgur.com/iwtjAxl.jpg

[oley55]

as per our PMs, I hope my success with that batch wasn’t a one off. But it doesn’t look like your clear and black liked each other. In a few days I’ll cast up a few and see about recreating my results. As I said, I wasn’t really paying close attention and was mostly just playing around and ended up with surprising results.

[Petander]

Best I can do so far - the only black I have is HF, so I'll have to get some of Smoke's:

https://i.imgur.com/iwtjAxl.jpg

There is a problem, I have see that with some powder combinations.

A friend has a hardware store,I have some clear non-tgic -powder coming next week. If that fails I'll contact Smoke again for the tried and true stuff. Smoke's black adheres much better than my non-tgic -black, for example.

That clear/black look is really nice - it won't draw all that stupid attention in public ranges.

[Burnt Fingers]

I always stand my boolits up when using PC.

My OCD won't allow me to do it any other way.

It's one of the reasons I really like Hi-Tek.

[AndyC]

as per our PMs, I hope my success with that batch wasn’t a one off. But it doesn’t look like your clear and black liked each other. In a few days I’ll cast up a few and see about recreating my results. As I said, I wasn’t really paying close attention and was mostly just playing around and ended up with surprising results.
Not as pretty as your nice gray color, but I'll carry on and I appreciate your help :)

[Driver man]

I shake and bake and have found if I am baking a pile of boolits all clumped together that if I give them a good shaking after about 5 minutes of baking to separate them and then do the same after baking about 20 minutes total I get good coverage with no clumping and just an occasional sticking. I normally bake 200 to 300 at a time. If I am going to use my boolits in a competition then I stand them coated and keep separate from the rest, I also give my coated boolits a very thin coating of carnauba wax and use these boolits for my rifles and larger calibre handguns.

[Tripplebeards]

Buy smokes clear. They will all look evenly coated with little effort. Depends how much humidity is in the air in my neck of the woods. Cold single digits and it’s so dry in my house that the static in my socks feel like I touched an electric fence will give me good even thick coats. Wet humid days I get uneven coating. Smokes clear covers smooth and even year around for me. I do bounce a separate container after tumble coating so I don’t get a thick uneven build up when baking.

[Petander]

I tried some italian non - tgic -clear with 1/3 Smoke's black mixed in.

Very nice and even adhesion in a youghurt bucket (with white airsoft pellets). No need to tap lumps off or anything, just pick and stand up.

https://i.postimg.cc/RZ8fgBgb/IMG-20210319-211400.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/rFsmJ2Mt/IMG-20210319-225133-288.jpg

[jsizemore]

I tried the shake and bake with black BB's, Smoke's signal blue powder and #5 butter tub. I stood them on the silicon sheet with tweezers. The finish came out OK, but that tweezer thing had to go. Tried the gloved hand with them and no joy. I was all set to sell the lot after the first session. Bought some tweezers at the flea market to give it another try. I watched a fella using a vibrating tumbler on utube using his gloved hands to set his PC bullets. I got out my old 1292, poured in 3-4 tablespoons of powder and 4.5 pounds of just cast Accurate 35-115Y. 20 minutes later I sifted the powder the powder from the bullets with a wire mesh basket. There were some minor marks from base striking bullet side but when I picked them up, the coating was stuck and even all the way around. It took about 15 minutes to set them out on the silicon sheet with nary a bare spot. I started the timer for 20 minutes after the PID showed the oven temp showed 390degF. The result looked like the entire bullet had been sized except the base. It was covered with PC but had a cross hatch texture from setting on the silicon mat. The rest of the bullet looked like it was covered in blue glass. Popped through the Star .357 die with ease even though they went in at .361-2. After 2 weeks, they still measure .357 and shoot great. I recovered bullet parts from the berm with the PC still complete. Found some older HiTek coated bullets with the finish intact on them too.

PC is easy to apply with the vibrating tumbler method in 1 step. Standing them up is slow and tedious. The HiTek takes a bunch of prep and drying and 2 coats. Dump in the wire mesh tray and bake for 8 minutes. Both size great in my Stars. I can do the PC inside so waiting on the weather to coat isn't a concern. I have tumbled 6.5 lbs. of bullets at 1 time in the 1292 with no issues.

Time to go out in the backyard to shoot some PC'ed 9mm.

[rfd]

I'm new to the PCB game and have only baked a few hundred, but these are .45-70s, not pistol PCBs yet. Only standup, no toss 'n' bake, I want clean PCBs with good bases for best accuracy out to 300 yards. I did my research and went with Eastwood Powders, Ford Light Blue and Full Gloss Clear. Both turned out fantastic.

[PhatForrest]

Eastwood gloss black comes out very well using shake n bake. As easy as Ford light blue.

[475AR]

I started out with Hi-Tek, but wanted to try pc, so I got some Smokes signal orange (for hunting rounds....) did the shake & bake first batch was good, but I did have a bunch stick. So I took a page from a baking show, that said to flower your hands and work surface so dough won't stick... so after the shake portion was done I flipped the container over on the lid and removed the bowl so all bullets and extra powder is on the lid. I then pressed my thumb and first 2 fingers in the extra pc on the lid then started standing bullets op then moved them to my baking pan on a silicone baking sheet then baked them. By keeping my fingers coated I was able to stand up bullets and move them to the baking pan without wiping off pc on the bullets, and if there is any thin areas on the top of the bullet I can get some pc on my fingrt and touch it up. Very happy the way they came out.
280835

[gnappi]

When I first looked into powder coating I read of all the success stories on SnB method and came to the conclusion that if my first attempts didn't come out right that it's not the process, it's the variables.

Luckily my very first powder selections and oven combinations worked great, enough so that trying other powders that did not do well made it clear it was the powder and nothing else. If getting to that point is elusive reading this thread in its entirety again is the best bet for success.

[rfd]

Yes, the powder is important - as is the process. I did my research and chose a powder that guarantees if I do my part with the process it would be instant success. I was right for once. Hooked on PCBs! ;)

[Jim22]

Couple things:

1. Don't let the boolits cool before separating them. I use Smoke's powder and find if I take the hardware cloth trays out of the oven before they cool any and shake the tray the boolits separate easily. Sometimes an air soft BB will find its way into the oven and it will stick to a boolit. That just means a bare spot on the boolit.
2. I have been using 1/4" mesh hardware cloth to build my trays but think I should use a bigger mesh like 5/16". The BB's will fall through the mesh easier before baking.
3. I don't worry about thin spots in the powder coating mostly. If I do I will coat and bake twice. Don't know if an extra layer will increase boolit diameter.

Jim

PS: I somehow think the process is important enough that I watch it closely. I wait until temperature on my Taylor oven thermometer reaches at least 375 Deg F and then start timing. Twenty minutes at 375-410 and the boolits are good.

[rrob692326]

Get a spray gun outfit and they will come out like you poured liquid molten glass on your bullets, and you will never look back on that tumble process again. Personally I love flamingo pink and radiant orchid!

[farmerjim]

The main problem is the sticking together . I have good coverage and the stand up one look awesome , but the shake and bakes I don't like the way they turn out . LOL Using Eastwood powder , got a over thermometer so I know it's at 400 and again it might be timing droping them in water .

Try one of these timers
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0007NIIOU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Clip it on your shirt. I am high frequency deaf and I can hear it. I go into a different room to coat my bollits and forget the oven. This timer makes me remember no matter where I go.

[38SuperAuto]

Has anyone tried, using the shake n bake batch method (random boolit orientation), removing the tray of bullets after cure and dousing them with cold water? Seems like that might reduce sticking to neighbor boolits and also increase hardness.

[Rapier]

You might get an air tight sealing large mouth container to keep your powder and pellet mixture dry in any humidity. I had problems with mine near 10 years ago in our humidity, until I found a good container with a rubber seal. Once I poured the old stuff out and remixed, it was obvious to me the old had gotten moisture in it. No more problem with moisture.

[dogmower]

Eastwood Ford light blue will coat anything with minimal tumbler or shake time, like on the order of a minute or two. I generally toss the boolits into the tumbler for 5 minutes, that's all it ever takes. Smoke's powders are great too. I've never had any luck with any type of black. I coat pistol boolits red and rifle boolits blue to keep things simple.

[barnabus]

Tried the shake and bake method and I'm not impressed , or I'm doing it wrong . Defiantly like the way my coating comes out when I stand each boolit upright .

id ur not using smokes you prolly wont be impressed.

[Shuz]

I believe the keys to getting best results with the shake and bake method is to pour the coated boolits from your #5 container into a fine mesh strainer like a vegetable strainer, and shake off the excess powder. Then pour them from the strainer onto a 1/4" screen or hardware cloth and make sure they are not clumped together, before putting them into the oven on the screen cloth supported by the oven tray. Then bake from room temp to 400 degrees for 1 hour and let cool in the oven. When cool, simply dump from the screen cloth coverd tray into a large bucket and the boolits that happened to touch each other will be free and fully coated. There maybe minute spots where the boolits touched each other, but the parts of the boolits that touched the screen cloth seem to be magically covered all the way around. At least this is what I've found with Smokes traffic purple and 25 cal boolits.

[brassrat]

I use a plastic forceps and tap off the excess and stand them in a cake pan. There is minor sticking but snap off easily. I don't mind the 5 or 10 minutes. They come out great. Havent done any in a few years.

[Sudsy]

This !

Drops mike, walks away

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264311448538

[phidelt208]

Man those blue bullets really look good! What powder did you use for that batch?