Heeled Boolits.

[beezapilot]

And so I've been gifted a Lyman 356637AQ, a heavily heeled 9mm projectile. While I've seen the boolit profile in the manuals and what not, this is my first time face to face with the beast. My BIG QUESTION is ... Why? Is there an advantage to heeled boolits outside of not having to bell the case mouths all that much? I was always given the guidance that a boolit should be pretty darn flat on the bottom and, should that be the correct way of doing business, this makes even less sense.

What am I missing?

[Dusty Bannister]

As you can see when you look at the image of this bullet, it is a beveled base to shorten the bearing surface at the base of the bullet. This is to allow seating in the inside taper of the 9MM cartridge case without causing the case to be expanded at that point in the case and interfere with chambering.

[beezapilot]

Ah! So the 124gr that I normally shoot don't go into the case as far as the much heavier 147gr to maintain OAL of cartridge! In the give and take of engineering that is what it takes for a thumper boolit! Gotcha and thank you!

[GregLaROCHE]

Don’t forget that .22 rimfire are heeled. A heeled boolit can not accidentally be pushed further into the case.

[gpidaho]

beezapilot: Heeled bullets were a good idea for a few reasons. One being for revolvers with strait bored cylinders I.E. no throats. While it has nothing to do with the mould you've been gifted I.m working on making heeled bullets for my 44-40 Ruger Vaquero (the old style with the 44mag barrel) I had Doug Phillips open the throats but the cylinder neck section still doesn't allow a bullet large enough to prevent leading. So I'm sizing the just the part of the bullet that fits in the case to .427 and leaving the nose section .432 to see if this helps. Just getting started, we shall see. Also, there are deadly accurate 22 rimfires shooting heeled bullets. Gp

[oley55]

beezapilot: Heeled bullets were a good idea for a few reasons. One being for revolvers with strait bored cylinders I.E. no throats. While it has nothing to do with the mould you've been gifted I.m working on making heeled bullets for my 44-40 Ruger Vaquero (the old style with the 44mag barrel) I had Doug Phillips open the throats but the cylinder neck section still doesn't allow a bullet large enough to prevent leading. So I'm sizing the just the part of the bullet that fits in the case to .427 and leaving the nose section .432 to see if this helps. Just getting started, we shall see. Also, there are deadly accurate 22 rimfires shooting heeled bullets. Gp

I assume "cylinder neck section" is actually what they call the throat choke where the throat gets compressed as the barrel is tightened down into the frame. If this is the area of concern, have you considered or tried fire lapping to eliminate the throat choke? I have tuned up a couple Rugers doing that. I had both throat choke and constrictions at the rolled/pressed in barrels stampings. These could be felt as the slug was pushed in from the muzzle. I did a lot of reading of manuals from both NECO and Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets.

If "cylinder neck section" means the cylinder chambers are too small to accept the diameter of the loaded brass cases, your heeled bullet experiment can't hurt, but in the end some revolvers will never handle cast bullets. Although it seems you are already considering that possibility.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Isn't the Lee mold for the Ruger Old Army a heeled boolit?
for seating into the cylinder? or is that called something else?

[charlie b]

I always considered a 'heeled' bullet and 'bevel base' bullet as two different animals.

The heel has the outer portion perpendicular to the bore and then a straight shank or boat tail.

The heel design is found in various designs including some Lapua bullets intended for long range precision shooting. From what I have found out the heel makes a 'clean break' at the muzzle and diverts the combustion gases away from the bullet instead of 'blowing' it around the bullet as it leaves the muzzle. There was some claim that this also gave a bit more velocity for the same powder charge.

[gpidaho]

oley55: The cylinder throats have been opened. The restriction I'm trying to work around with a heeled bullet is the the neck section of the chamber. The 44-40 is a very slightly bottlenecked cartridge and the tight chamber problem could be easily worked around on many other cartridges by simply neck turning but sadly, the necks of 44-40 brass are already too thin. About seven or eight thousandths of an inch. I'm just being stubborn, trying to force something to work. Guess I just like a fight. LOL Gp

[oley55]

oley55: The cylinder throats have been opened. The restriction I'm trying to work around with a heeled bullet is the the neck section of the chamber. The 44-40 is a very slightly bottlenecked cartridge and the tight chamber problem could be easily worked around on many other cartridges by simply neck turning but sadly, the necks of 44-40 brass are already too thin. About seven or eight thousandths of an inch. I'm just being stubborn, trying to force something to work. Guess I just like a fight. LOL Gp

Got it, I'm a bit slow much of the time. I can appreciate your persistence. I have a couple 24" barreled Rossi R92's in 357 and 44mag. The 357 is a cast bullet loving machine (1.5" groups at 100 yards), while the 44mag has an overly generous bore and appropriately sized/loaded rounds simply will not pass between the loading ramp guides, rendering it a single shot. I should give up on pushing cast through that 44mag, but I just can't seem to help myself and I keep coming back to it.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm a bit confused here in terms of the OP using the term "heeled". Not familiar with the boolit he is referring to other than the chart, haven't seen one cast up - but I'm assuming the boolit is seated into a casing like any internally lubed bullet. It's higher grain weight so it goes to reason that seating depth will probably be deeper than a lighter grain weight in order to keep COAL and chambering requirements for the particular handgun.

I load "helled" boolit for a .36 cal. Remington 1858 NMA Navy - the bore size is .375 sot it requires a .175 diameter boolit with a .358 - .360 "heel" in order to seat it in a 38 casing - i.e. 38 Colt Short, Long, 38 special, etc. A "heeled" boolit is crimped on the "heel" itself which sits in the casing. Think .22 rimfire -0the utilize a "heeled" boolit which is an outside lubed boolit.

Like I said - not familiar with the 356-637 - but looking at the chart 0- to me it looks like a gas-checked design - but someone mentions it is a bevel base. At any rate - if it was a "heeled" boolit - the "heel" is the only portion that would be seated within the cartridge mouth of the 9mm casing and the rest of the boolit would be "oversize" to fit the bore - and the crimp would be on the "heel". That would mean that the "heel" would have to be .356 - .357 or so in order to seat in the standard 9mm casing and the O.D. of the exposed boolit greater than those dimensions - which is going to be a tight fit in a 9mm bore - much less getting it to headspace on the mouth of the casing.

Not being picky - just questioning the term "heeled" when applied to this particular boolit.

[oley55]

Not being picky - just questioning the term "heeled" when applied to this particular boolit.

Good point, as per a Corbin example/description:

Heel-type bullets have a reduced base portion that fits inside the cartridge case. The most common example of this is the 22 rimfire. Early blackpowder cartridges used the heel-type bullet, also, so that the bullet diameter was the same as the case diameter, and fit the barrel with the full section of the bullet that was "outside" of the cartridge.

with pics here: http://corbins.com/heelbase.htm

[reddog81]

I always considered a 'heeled' bullet and 'bevel base' bullet as two different animals.

The heel has the outer portion perpendicular to the bore and then a straight shank or boat tail.


That's what I was thinking. The bullet in question is just a normal bevel base bullet. I figured it'd be a gas checked mold when I first read the title.

[onelight]

Isn't the Lee mold for the Ruger Old Army a heeled boolit?
for seating into the cylinder? or is that called something else?
That bullet has a rebated heel to start in the cylinder to simplify starting straight in the front of the cylinder .
A gas check bullet has a rebated heel to accept a gas check as opposed to a bevel base (beveled heel) or boat tail long tapered heel or base , or flat base.
The bullets I have always seen called "heel type bullets" have a rebated heel long enough to hold the bullet in a case and accept a crimp on cartridges that the bullet od is as large as the od of the case.
Like 22lr these bullets are always outside lubed and are not considered as durable and except for 22lr are obsolete to most of the world :)

[blackthorn]

If using a true "healed" type bullet it would be impossible to have the loaded round "headspace" on the case-mouth----Yes/No??

[onelight]

If using a true "healed" type bullet it would be impossible to have the loaded round "headspace" on the case-mouth----Yes/No??
It would be impossible .

[gpidaho]

In general, I believe heeled bullets are loaded in rimmed cartridges and that's how the round headspaces. Gp

[beezapilot]

Always an education! Yes, it is a "bevel base" but I learned a lot once again- thank you, Gentlemen! 'Tis a dull day when you learn nothing new!