measured Lee Load Master shell plate wobble

[guy_with_boolits]

Note that this is a carrier that has seen a 1000 or so rounds. I do have a brand new carrier coming in so I'll repeat the test and see if its any better.

Looks like the total tilt from one side to the next is .006". This is definitely free tilt, the carrier visibly moves and makes a clear clicking sound as you tilt it.

No wonder I have problems keeping a consistent COAL and crimp. And this is BEFORE you consider the wobble and movement of the turret plate, which moves considerably under the 100's of lbs of force coming at it from the decapper, seating die, crimp die, primer arm, etc.... I understand the theory is everything tilts the same way every time but in practice thats not what I have observed..

I'm going to try machining this carrier so all the ribs make contact with the shell plate and see if I can eliminate the tilt.

https://i.postimg.cc/KzWL8DTR/20210307-122938.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/QCW79KgS/20210307-122954.jpg

[Conditor22]

IF you check online there is a company that sells a fix that entails set screws in the tool head so when the shell plate comes up it hits the set screws and always stays the same --- no wobble

[guy_with_boolits]

IF you check online there is a company that sells a fix that entails set screws in the tool head so when the shell plate comes up it hits the set screws and always stays the same --- no wobble

I saw that..as well as the other plate that goes on top of the turret plate

I'm interested in seeing if this works or not..I guess if you cant machine it flat then the only option would be a plate like that

[guy_with_boolits]

its Magic Mikes https://www.mikesreloadingbench.com/

The option that lets you put equal force on the shell plate is the billet turret plate...but I wonder, seems like the stock turret plate has enough material to let you thread some screws into it if you wanted to try that..might be a little far but seems like it might work

[Conditor22]

I've seen where people filled the cavity in the turret with epoxy or? to secure the set screws

[guy_with_boolits]

I've seen where people filled the cavity in the turret with epoxy or? to secure the set screws

I dunno I looked at the turret situation. I think a bolted on plate is the only thing that would really work. The set screw is just not the right design to lock the turret plate so it cant move. The set screw just allows it to pivot no matter how tight it is.

The thing with the shell plate carrier is that its lack of machining the ribs, so they are as cast and dont provide a consistent bearing surface for the shell plate.

The turret is more of a design issue I think. They should come up with a method that locks the plate in place. The rim of the press body seems to have enough space for some threaded holes that would allow some clamping screws. But ya that guy uses jack screws so you dont have to drill and tap your press.

[hollywood63]

You don't have the nut on to hold it stable its gonna move around. If your die holder is moving the locking screw is loose or missing

[Livin_cincy]

Does your shell plate wobble when in contact with your reloading dies ?
The dies secure the shell plate.

The turret moving is a common complaint issue. The idea of alignment is a design feature of Forrester, MEC, and Frankford Arsenal presses. Even Dillon has a floating tool head design.

Understanding you are seating a primer at the top of the shell plate movement is confusing as only the Dillon 1050/1100 press does this. The Lee LM does not seat primers well at a sharp hard stop against the dies. A smooth push into the dies aligns the turret & seats the primer without issue. Trying to do a Camover push down snap on the lever just causes frustration.

[jmorris]

Trying to get consistent over all length can be difficult as most seat dies do not seat the bullet from the very tip.

If you are wanting to measure a machines ability to repeatedly perform the same task, remove the seater portion from the seat die and measure from the base of the case, to the top of the seating stem, with bullet inside as it was when seated.

Or you can buy/make a tool with the correct diameter so you are measuring, using a datum point on the ogive where the seater actually touches the bullet.

If that sounds like too much work, just load up some full wad cutters and you can see what the machine is capable of doing.

You could also put your indicator so at the top of the stroke, when everything is happening while loading, it’s touching off the top of the shell plate. Would matter a lot more than what tolerances you can wiggle with your finger when things are unloaded.

If you want to make it interesting try this with dry and then lubed brass. Let us know what method you have been using and what gives lower variations.

Measure with your indicator attached to the base and again up top and you can see how much the frame is moving too.

[onelight]

What jmorris says makes a lot of sense to me , I don't really see what difference the play on the parts make when they are unloaded , the real measurements would come with a full set of dies and brass in place to measure how consistently the tool performs under load.
I can think of one high end single stage that they see the floating die and shell holder as an asset .

[mdi]

I thought the turrets on my Lee press were "sloppy" because the moved a measured .007".008" under pressure. But they moved the same amount every time. The variations I found in seating depth, etc., were not from turret movement, but for other reasons, including my methods, as the turret moved the same amount every time...

[guy_with_boolits]

I thought the turrets on my Lee press were "sloppy" because the moved a measured .007".008" under pressure. But they moved the same amount every time. The variations I found in seating depth, etc., were not from turret movement, but for other reasons, including my methods, as the turret moved the same amount every time...

in theory that makes sense but in practice:

-the forces on the dies is not always equal, especially if you are using mixed headstamp range brass. Decapping, full sizing, priming, expanding, bullet seating, and crimping forces will all vary somewhat, causing the final plate position to change enough to cause a significant change in COAL.

Use brand new brass thats all the same and you probably wont see that.

I have been doing quite a bit of experiments that I have not posted yet.

I already needed to buy a new shell carrier anyway (unrelated accidental damage) so these experiments aren't really costing me anything.

To my surprise, there was still plenty of wobble after machining the carrier ribs flat! To my additional surprise I measured several thou of unflatness in the shell plate itself, and it does not seem intentional. The surface of the plate that rests on the ribs is not flat. I marked it and used gage blocks. I machined it as flat as well and finally got to a shell plate that would not wobble.

I've also modified my bullet seating plug to intentially set on the ogive of the bullet and not the tip. I've measured seating forces as several hundred pounds, and this is easily enough to deform the tip of the bullet and make measuring post-seating COAL meaningless.

So now I have a solid turret, solid shell plate, and bullet seating that doesnt distort the bullet tip.

Before loading a test batch of 10, I measured all the bullets I was going to use. Sure enough, they varied in base to tip length by about 0.005" across them. That means if you seat on the ogive you may end up with a COAL that varies even if you seat the exact same way each time. But I really dont think seating on the tip is a good idea if you want to try and measure COAL afterwards (which I do, for this experiment). For actual ammo, you can probably do that and be perfectly consistent. But for seeing what impacts COAL, it doesnt work.

[jetinteriorguy]

I have given up obsessing over COL a long time ago, there are just too many variables for it to have any truly serious impact on pistol ammunition in my experience. Rifle of course is another issue, but then it’s more about a consistent seating to a datum point on the ogive for consistent bullet jump as far as I can see, not COL. The only time I’m concerned about COL is when loading to fit a magazine, which is not that difficult to just build in a fair amount of leeway for function give a fairly predictable variance in COL. All this said, I only use my Loadmaster for certain processing functions anymore. I load all pistol ammo and some rifle plinking ammo on my Lee CCT, and my more accurate rifle on single stage presses. This process has given me the most consistent ammo in both pistol and rifle.

[jmorris]

-the forces on the dies is not always equal, especially if you are using mixed headstamp range brass. Decapping, full sizing, priming, expanding, bullet seating, and crimping forces will all vary somewhat, causing the final plate position to change enough to cause a significant change in COAL.


What variance are you seeing, in thousandths of an inch?

What exact bullet and seater are you using?

If you measure just the OAL of the projectiles themselves, a random sample picked from the box, how much to they vary?

How much does the internal volume of the various mixed brass cases you are loading vary by headstamp?