38 Super

[MrWolf]

Wasn't sure if here or gunsmithing would be best so Mods if you move it I understand. I have, for whatever reason, been thinking about the 38 Super. There are limited factory produced pistols and while looking around I stumbled across an aftermarket new Sig 38 Super barrel for $39 as it looks like they were getting rid of a few items in 38 Super (grabbed two mags also). The barrel is 5" and ramped in the Wilson/Nowlin style. I also just ordered the Jerry Kuhnhausen vols 1&2 on the 1911's.
Started looking at ramped frames (large) and such and was wondering if anyone else has tried something like this to maybe save me some hassle. I know it would probably be easier grabbing a Colt 1911 or such but figured I could probably do this and besides, looks like an interesting project that shouldn't be to bad.
Any thoughts or advice?
Thanks,
Ron

[Der Gebirgsjager]

This is one of those projects where you'll have to ask for advice as you proceed with the build and encounter problems. For the present, my advice would be that as you look over the frames that are available to phone the manufacturers and ask them if your barrel is compatible with their frame. For some reason folks are shy to use the telephone, but it can save a lot of grief.

DG

[No_1]

You can do it! Read the book, scour YouTube for videos detailing anything you don’t understand or wish to have a better understanding of then of course ask here.

With the help from my 1911 mentor Preacher Jim I assembled (from parts) a .22 Colt Ace pistol as well as a .38 Special Midrange pistol. Through videos, reading and phone calls I have learned trigger work, fitting slides, fitting barrel bushings and general trouble shooting of that platform.

[country gent]

Read up on it there are a lot of good how to manuals on fitting and acurizing the 1911. Study up on it before you buy your parts this way you know what to look for and have an idea what your getting into. Then when everything has arrived work slow and careful. Measure 3 times before removing any more material.Use fresh files and stones. It may be easier to start with a existing 1911 ( one of the budget models like the springfield GI may be cheaper Than the parts combined and would only require barrel and bushing to be fitted.

A few years ago I built my midrange 38 spl 1911. Its a lck up gun with bar sto barrel 6". Started with a new springfield GI in 45 acp. then put 500-600 rounds thru it to break in and prove it. Also it was fun putting the rounds thru it. Then fitted barrel and bushing machined a red dot mount. In my pistol It required a 6-7 lb spring to function with the 2.7 grns bullseye load. I was going to cut the barrel down to 5" bbut it shoots so well Im leaving it at 6". Though at some time I may pick up 2 slides and make a 6" long slide 38 wadcutter gun :-o.

Read up and work carefully and you will end up with a very nice pistol you have a lot of pride in

[MrWolf]

Wow. Three great threads of advice from those whose opinions I respect. Guess we are going to see how far down the rabbit hole that $39 barrel takes me. From the research I have done so far the advice is spot on. The Kuhnhausen manuals were highly recommended on numerous forums so figured a good place to start. Thanks guys. ( I agree a simple phone call can yield surprising results)
Ron

[JimB..]

Would you tell me where you got these? I have a couple 1911’s in 38super but also a few in 9mm and would like to try adding a 38super barrel to one of the 9mm pistols.

[country gent]

The 9 mm platform pistols are seldom long enough for the 38 supers length it takes a 45 platform ans both the 38 super and 45 are 1 .250 or so OAL. The 9 mm is shorter. same with the 40 s&w it fits the 9mm platform but the 10mm require the 1911 or 45 platform

[MrWolf]

country gent is correct based upon what I have read. I got the barrel here:
https://www.cdnnsports.com/1911-38-super-5in-ramped-sts-barrel-sig-sauer.html
I received a shipping notification from them already. I always worry about sites I have never used but was worth the try for this.

[JimB..]

Hmm, so would it be easier to build a 9mm upper for a 38super pistol if I wanted one that went both ways? Not sure why I hadn’t thought about that.

[Ia.redneck]

Hi MrWolf,
I bought one of those CDNN 38 Super barrels last summer for my Springfield 1911. I was never happy with the accuracy of the factory barrel. I thought for $39, what the heck? It has the same ramp style as the Springfield.

When it arrived, the package said made in Korea. I wasn't expecting much.....boy! was I surprised, it dropped right in with minimal fitting. It shoots MUCH better than the original Springfield barrel. Very happy!

FYI.. try the .357 XTP 125gr Hornadys made for 357 mag. (If you can find any) That extra diameter must help accuracy. They shoot/feed great.

Dale

[country gent]

Yes you have to start with the 38 super sized gun. The 9 mm can be fit into it easily then. But all the 9 mm 1911s Ive shot feel clunky functioning probably due to the added room. I believe the 9 mm mags also set the round forward in the mag to account for the shorter rounds.

As a side note to original post the AMU played with 38 supers and a 223 based wildcat in the 1911 for the bullseye teams. The wildcat was basically an 38 super rimless that head spaced on the mouth.

[MrWolf]

Hi MrWolf,
I bought one of those CDNN 38 Super barrels last summer for my Springfield 1911. I was never happy with the accuracy of the factory barrel. I thought for $39, what the heck? It has the same ramp style as the Springfield.

When it arrived, the package said made in Korea. I wasn't expecting much.....boy! was I surprised, it dropped right in with minimal fitting. It shoots MUCH better than the original Springfield barrel. Very happy!

FYI.. try the .357 XTP 125gr Hornadys made for 357 mag. (If you can find any) That extra diameter must help accuracy. They shoot/feed great.

Dale

Thanks for the info. Figured at that price it was worth the gamble. I have a lot of reading to do but am getting pretty stoked about making one. First time for everything.

[RJM52]

.38 Super is a wonderful round...it is just too bad that the original headspace on the case rim barrels gave such poor accuracy...only took about 45 years to figure out that if the round was headspaced on the case mouth like a .45 ACP the guns would become tackdrivers...

Bought one of those SIG .38 Super barrels and put it in a SIG Nightmare Carry in .357 SIG. Was left 5" rather than shortened to 4.25". It is very accurate....

Good luck on your adventure....

Bob

[Sailormilan2]

If you're starting with a 9mm 1911, to convert to a 38 Super, you need a barrel, and a magazine. You will possibly need to shorten the ejector, to allow the ejection of a loaded rounds, since many manufacturers use a very long ejector for the 9mm. Some say that one can use the same recoil spring, but if you plan on loading to the 38 Super's full potential, you really need to go up a pound or two on the recoil spring weight.
If going from a 38 Super to a 9mm, you need a barrel, and possibly a new recoil spring. The shorter 38 Super ejector should work, unless one is shooting really light loads, or the recoil spring is over sprung for the load. All of mine feed just find out of a 38 Super magazine.

[BC17A]

That Sig barrel is an excellent piece. I fit one in my Sr1911 10mm and it's a tack driver.

[MrWolf]

That Sig barrel is an excellent piece. I fit one in my Sr1911 10mm and it's a tack driver.

That is interesting. My barrel gets here in a few days.

Since I am in the research phase, am finding out like everything else gun related, that there is nothing in stock with the possible exception for 80% which is not in my plans. I may be able to get a new Rock Armory 1911in 38 super for about the cost of a finished receiver. Anyone tried upgrading one of these? Of course that would be after firing if it wasn't a tack driver. My understanding is these are GI based and are a bit loose. Again just thinking until I get my reference materials. Plus I have to wait until later in the month for my new credit card billing cycle. Somehow my balance got a bit high trying to "stock up" on some things. I did mange to put away about 340lbs of beef giving me over 400lbs of beef/venison in the freezer. Total cost on beef was about $3.25 lb including butcher costs. You guys have to stop using my credit cards :killingpc

[Valley-Shooter]

For high performance with 38 super you need a ramped barrel. Stay away from the Colt factory guns, they have non-ramp barrels that don't completely support the brass.
If I were invest in a 38 super 1911/2011, I'd go high end or custom made by a good gunsmith. $2000 to $3000 for the complete package with comp, red dot, and 10 high cap mags.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[wv109323]

I would start my buying decisions on what sights I was going to use. Buy a slide already machined for the sights you intend to use. Next buy a slide and frame that are oversized or an already fitted slide/frame. This eliminates machine work that most can not do at home.
Most other things can be done at home, but some special tools may be necessary.

[M-Tecs]

Just ordered three.

Think I am going this route for brass

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?38338-Making-SUPER-38-Super-brass-from-223

https://www.starlinebrass.com/38-super-comp-brass

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/109804-38-super-vs-38-super-comp/

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/7/23/rimless-38-super-brass-everything-you-need-to-know/

[MrWolf]

I've seen each of those links except the Brian Enos one. Thanks that explained things nicely. Here is grafs link. In stock and a limit of 5 bags of 100.
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/17827 (+p)
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/17824 (sc)
I am working out a swap with another member of ammo we both don't use. Hopefully a win/win situation.

wv109323 - that is an interesting idea. I hadn't even thought of that yet. In a way the out of stock is a minor blessing in that I tend to jump in quick. This time I am researching first, then running head first into the wall. Thanks folks.
Ron

[MrWolf]

For high performance with 38 super you need a ramped barrel. Stay away from the Colt factory guns, they have non-ramp barrels that don't completely support the brass.
If I were invest in a 38 super 1911/2011, I'd go high end or custom made by a good gunsmith. $2000 to $3000 for the complete package with comp, red dot, and 10 high cap mags.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

That is what drew me to the Sig barrel (besides price). I had read this which was informative on ramped barrels:
https://www.guntechtips.com/rampedbbls.htm
And one on 1911 Internet Thread Archive:
http://dave2.freeshell.org/1911/index.htm

Thanks for the info.
Ron

[RJM52]

Have been shooting very warm loads in non-ramped Colts for 40 years... Is a ramped barrel better..absolutely but it isn't necessary unless you are a Gamer who has to wring every FPS out of a load.

[RJM52]

wv109323 makes a real good point that will save you a lot of money... The standard GM style sight cut really limits what one can use for a rear sight especially. A Novak cut gives one a WIDE range of fixed, adjustable, tritium and fiber optic options. A dovetail front sight cut allows easy change out of many different styles and heights of blades...would not buy a 1911 without it unless one is just looking for a nostalgic looking 1911...

[RJM52]

..was just wondering...have you looked at the Caspian 1911 website... A lot of people I know have built guns from the ground up using Caspian frames and slides...

[MrWolf]

That was probably the most referred to 1911 frames from my research. I had asked a question and for a response, "Walt" just sent me three pdf's on basically pricing. Like I said, luckily for me a lot is out of stock now so hopefully will have the pitfalls mapped out beforehand. I have thought about just getting a nice factory 38 super but I really like the idea of going from almost scratch. I dont have any machinist tools and have a bad neck/back and some nerve damage in my right hand so have to be realistic on what I can really do. Besides, researching means I am not spending money - yet[smilie=l:
Ron
Edit: Was also looking at JEM guns for their frames. They seem to have decent reviews also.

[1006]

Caspian has Sub-Company called Foster, or maybe Foster is the parent company. The Foster items are Caspian Blemishes. I have put four 1911’s together with Foster frames. The blemish on each was undetectable.

You can order the frame with or without the ramp cut. Just tell them which barrel you are using.

[eb in oregon]

While a 1911 framed .38 Super is a more traditional pistol I've a SIG P220 and an EAA Witness that I love. Both are accurate and well made pistols. And the Witness has an 18 round magazine capacity, which is a nice feature. I never figured out why it wasn't more popular as it is essentially a 9mm with much more powder capacity and with the proper bullets a hard hitting cartridge.

[MrWolf]

I had never heard of the EAA Witness before. Interesting as I had not even considered a double stack before. There have been a lot of thoughtful suggestions made that I had not even considered like the double stack or the Novak sight cut. I am really getting into this build and have decided to push my abilities. I really like my stippling on my Sig and will be doing that myself on this build. Have also been looking at the early Colt charcoal bluing and other methods and even considering trying it myself. Way way way back in my head thinking about trying some engraving but some nerve damage in my right hand would be an issue. Might as well go for the brass ring before I get to far down the road. Thanks for all the suggestions folks. Keep em coming.
Ron