Old take on shortages

[Blanket]

My father was a product of the Depression and no money, went off to war in 1942. Talked of buying 22 shells a couple at a time to get meat for the family, chopping roofing lead into shot to use in old civil war muskets with home made black powder to hunt in the 30's. After he came back from the war him and my mom who was also a barefoot starving depression farm kid pressed into me and my siblings to always prepare for hard times. We don't understand that anymore.
I am lucky enough to have ground to raise a huge garden and some livestock. I have offered several times to people a spot to raise their own and I will do the ground prep with my equipment and using my well to water, no takers. Give away truck loads of vegetables in our excess and offer that they can come out and pick their own, no takers. That is our current world

[silverado]

Unfortunately it is easier to take than produce.

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[Winger Ed.]

Several years ago, our little suburb of North Dallas offered a area on city property for any resident to use as a garden.

They plowed up a big plot, sectioned it off with strings & stakes, put all the right kind of dirt on it, etc.
You could sign out spots, plant what ya wanted, tend your spot, and they'd water it every so often.

A month or so later- The whole place had weeds as high as your head.
If anyone harvested anything, it was a well kept secret.

[rancher1913]

we have offered to people to come pick produce, the usual response is "can you just pick it and bring it to me".

[CLAYPOOL]

MY local village has a miss guided woman wanting to do a "COMMUNITY GARDEN". I think its a wonderful idea that is going to be a flop. I'M just probably just stating a fact.... UNFORTUNATELY.....

[Jniedbalski]

I use to plant big gardens even when I first got married in 87. Gave a lot away over the years. Haven’t canned or put out a decent garden in five or six years. Last year I put out a 15’ x15’ got a little from it most sun flowers and flowers . Something came in and ate all my tomato plants right down to the ground stalk and all never seen that. Deer I guess but in June with everything growing good ? Al least the radishes and spinach did good

[Hogdaddy]

Some folks are plumb lazy ; ) PS While other folks prepare
H/D

[gbrown]

Yep, it is what it is. All I can say. Sorry it is what it is.

[dverna]

Did the livestock and garden thing growing up. Then started gardening again about 20 years ago.

Not worth the effort. I have almost a year of food prepped. There is a market that has great deals and we stock up during sales: some recent examples...

Canned veggies.....$.19-.29 a can
Pork loin...$1.29/lb
Pork butt.....$.79/lb
Chicken quarters....$2.99 for 10 lb bag
Butter....$.99/lb
Tuna...$.25/can
Spam...$1.50/can
Porterhouses steak...$5.99/lb
Eggs...$.69/doz
Taco kits....$1

Growing stuff is not always less expensive and certainly not needed to be prepared for hard times.

Folks spend a lot of money eating out, and complain about not having money. If they are too lazy to cook, they are not going to raise food. On TV, I see folks in car lines waiting to get food driving $40-50k vehicles...that pisses me off.

I stopped giving to the church food bank when I saw what was going on.

[granville_it]

Good food is cheap!!.

Mark

[Gewehr-Guy]

On Shortages, like Blanket, I also raise a decent size garden, but unfortunately most just goes to waste. I usually can or freeze a good supply of tomatoes, beans, carrots,and beets. A few friends and family will come and pick some , and I get some satisfaction from that, as they do really appreciate it. But having a garden, and not needing it, is better than the other way around.

The people that don't have a decent supply of food at home, probably don't fill their car with gas before the ice storm, and are always paying late fees on their credit card balances.

Years ago my Grandmother said they were always short on stove fuel, this was during the drought years in South Dakota. So she would use a pitchfork to flip over cow pies so they would dry faster, and gather them before the got stepped on and broken. I always remember that story when I get my propane tanks filled in July. There are seldom real shortages, just poor timing.

[Garyshome]

Hey at least the rabbits/deer/insects don't go hungry around my garden.

[mroliver77]

I grow a large garden. It not only provides good clean food it does a lot for my mental and physical health. My garden is up against pasture fence so all the extra goes into the cows and they turn it into meat!

[10-x]

Talk about LAZY, friend in another state found a guy selling off his deceased fathers reload stuff. Called the guy and asked exactly what he had, he said maybe 50 molds with handles! Asked him which ones, he said he didn’t know so told him just write the mould numbers on piece of paper and call me. He said that was to much trouble and wanted someone to come over, look each mold up online and give him about half, Give me a Break!

[Rcmaveric]

They have community gardens here in Jax. Surprisingly people use them. But think it's older people looking for company in honesty.

I would rather see community and church gardens than food stamps. I loved when Florida passage legislation that if you were on food stamps, you dont need a fishing license. I think they should extend that to hunting also.

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[ascast]

I'm with dverna on this one. I grew up with depression era parents. My dad farmed so was never accepted in the army until very late in '45 and never left home. He had a pilots license in '38, but not enough teeth. Go figure. Raised chickens here and dairy at gramps 1/2 miles up the road. Assuming you have the land with water near by, you can put in one or two hours a day-every day- to make it work. Add in a tractor with plow and drag, or tiller, some tools, rakes etc,. Now you need a fence, eight foot. A four footer is just a mild inconvenience for a white tail. It must be stout as well as they will fly into chicken wire and ruin it. Chicken wire is OK on the bottom for rabbits and woodchucks, but you havew to spike it down or weight it down. Moles seem to be run off with those battery vibrators that stick in the ground. You should gt in the habit of buying every garden you see at yard sales etc. You'll know why later. These are off the top of my head. Now on the harvest side, a canning pot, oddles of jars at a buck each (get more now for next year), rubber seals, new freezer, bigger, maybe a root cellar, you get the idea.
food is cheap in our country. gardening is a lot of work and can be wiped out in one overnight raid by Bambe and friends.
I still garden some,
I wish I could grow bell peppers

[Thumbcocker]

My Grandfather who was born in 1918 used to tell this joke: A man was losing his farm and was being taken to the poor house. He lay in the back of the wagon. A neighbor came by in his wagon and heard what was going on. The neighbor offered to donate a few bushels of corn so the man could have some food and get out a crop. The man raised up in the bed of the wagon and asked "is that corn shelled?" The neighbor replied that the corn was on the cob. The man turned to the men driving the wagon and said "drive on boys " and lay back down.

[Blanket]

Did the livestock and garden thing growing up. Then started gardening again about 20 years ago.

Not worth the effort. I have almost a year of food prepped. There is a market that has great deals and we stock up during sales: some recent examples...

Canned veggies.....$.19-.29 a can
Pork loin...$1.29/lb
Pork butt.....$.79/lb
Chicken quarters....$2.99 for 10 lb bag
Butter....$.99/lb
Tuna...$.25/can
Spam...$1.50/can
Porterhouses steak...$5.99/lb
Eggs...$.69/doz
Taco kits....$1

Growing stuff is not always less expensive and certainly not needed to be prepared for hard times.

Folks spend a lot of money eating out, and complain about not having money. If they are too lazy to cook, they are not going to raise food. On TV, I see folks in car lines waiting to get food driving $40-50k vehicles...that pisses me off.

I stopped giving to the church food bank when I saw what was going on.well good for you and your processed food diet

[perotter]

About the only thing that can be grown in a back yard garden that I eat on regular basis would be for pickles and sauerkraut. Then annual cost of these purchased ready to eat is $66. So even with a old guys part time job that would be working an extra 4 hours once a year or work an extra full day and have an extra $66. But I guess that I would eat fresh home raised cumbers and home raised stringbeans in the summer. But seem to get by fine with them.

Plus a storage of what is grown in a vegetable garden isn't cheap. I think the current price of a medium sized freeze dryer is $2600. But a person could build one cheap. That would be fun and the only reason I'd have a vegetable garden so I could test it out.

PS
Opps. Remembered my asparagus plants. I do like it pick minutes before cooking it. So I have some of that I planted some years ago that I let grow more or less wild.

[perotter]

well good for you and your processed food diet

Besides the Spam, what is processed in his listed food items?

[Alstep]

Isn't it strange that food isn't taxed (yet) but you pay sales tax on seeds, chicken feed, garden tools, etc to produce food???

Years ago a neighbor had a large garden and had so much extra vegetables, he filled a wheelbarrow and put it out near the road with a sign "free". Wouldn't you know somebody came by, dumped out the vegetables and took the wheelbarrow!

[Blanket]

Besides the Spam, what is processed in his listed food items?just about all of it. Canned Vegetables, confinement raised pork, chicken. Egg farmed eggs. I guess if you have no taste all of it is ok with you

[waksupi]

Did the livestock and garden thing growing up. Then started gardening again about 20 years ago.

Not worth the effort. I have almost a year of food prepped. There is a market that has great deals and we stock up during sales: some recent examples...

Canned veggies.....$.19-.29 a can
Pork loin...$1.29/lb
Pork butt.....$.79/lb
Chicken quarters....$2.99 for 10 lb bag
Butter....$.99/lb
Tuna...$.25/can
Spam...$1.50/can
Porterhouses steak...$5.99/lb
Eggs...$.69/doz
Taco kits....$1

Growing stuff is not always less expensive and certainly not needed to be prepared for hard times.

Folks spend a lot of money eating out, and complain about not having money. If they are too lazy to cook, they are not going to raise food. On TV, I see folks in car lines waiting to get food driving $40-50k vehicles...that pisses me off.

I stopped giving to the church food bank when I saw what was going on.

I wish the prices were like that here!

[waksupi]

Years ago my Grandmother said they were always short on stove fuel, this was during the drought years in South Dakota. So she would use a pitchfork to flip over cow pies so they would dry faster, and gather them before the got stepped on and broken. I always remember that story when I get my propane tanks filled in July. There are seldom real shortages, just poor timing.

When we were kids, we would flip cow pies to get grub worms for fish bait!

[Markopolo]

I wish the prices were like that here!


and here... I use every available space to grow some sort of veggies or fruit!!! fresh is good... home made is good... processed is .. who knows cuz I didn't do it myself...

[dverna]

One of our good neighbors are poor. Typically two years behind on property taxes, drive on bald tires etc etc. They are great people and always have about a year of food put up for their "safety net". But they are not "smart" about it.

His wife insists on a garden and raising livestock. Just one example.....their chickens. They buy 50 meat chickens every year. Cost about $1.50 each IIRC, and they lose about 10% of the chicks in the first few weeks. They drive 80 miles round trip to buy "organic" feed every two weeks because they cannot afford to buy enough feed to last a month (mind boggling...I know). Then they pay about $3 ea to have them butchered. One year a pine martin got into the coop and decimated the flock. They have no idea what their chicken meat costs...but I figure about $1.50/lb. They shop at the same market we do (Freddie's in Atlanta MI), and chicken quarters are $.30-45/lb when on sale...no limits.

I asked them why they do it. His wife said they want to eat "organic". She smokes a pack a day, so I guess eating healthier is important. She has trouble walking and drives a riding lawn mower to get to the garden 40 yards from their house. We are all in our late 60's early 70's (well my finance is 57) so I doubt "eating organic" is going to matter much. But one of their "treats" is a bucket of KFC!

I had too much to drink one time and asked..."Let me understand this. You grow your own chickens at 3-4 times the cost of buying at Freddie's and then buy a bucket of KFC for $20? Did you get the organic bucket?" My fiancé nearly choked on her drink and I got "the look".

This same couple is putting up a green house this year....no common sense....spending time and money they do not have. How much can two old people eat?

Being prepared is not costly. Even poor people can put away a decent supply over time. Food is cheap...if you buy it right.

Growing stuff and raising livestock is a great learning experience, but not cost effective. If someone enjoys it as a hobby it works. I do not want to do things I do not enjoy doing unless I save money or have no choice.

It is like casting bullets. Some people love it and cast bullets for the satisfaction of the endeavor. If I could buy bullets for $30/1000 I would never cast again. The effort is not worth reward. But the skill set and equipment is priceless if the SHTF.

[rockrat]

Alstep----food is taxed around here, almost 9%.

[contender1]

My , like a few others,, was a Depression kid. My mom was a baby during it,, but grew up in a poor farming community.
Both were raised to be frugal, and resourceful. My Dad,, was actually very active in that arena. He didn't believe in any wasting of anything. He was in WWII and saw other countries,, & saw others also doing without.
As such,, I too was raised to work, be frugal, and plan ahead. I have access to gardening,, but I know so many farmers,, I don't have to do any. I DO help them when I can, (money or work,) and we always have plenty of stuff to can for our own use.

But the root of the problems mentioned above is simple.

Too many people,, including most adults,, have NOT lived a life of "doing without." Since WWII and the boom that followed,, stores have had product, resources have been available, & with only a few short lived shortages (gas in the 70's for example,) etc,, PEOPLE have not had to go any real length of time doing without necessities.
To compound the PROBLEM,, there are MANY, MANY government supplied resources that lead people to believe that they can get stuff for free. They now feel "entitled" to free food, (food stamps, EBT cards etc,) good housing,, (low rent government subsidized housing,) free phones,, (thanks Obama) etc.

So, PEOPLE have NOT had a HARD life of WORKING for basic stuff just to survive.

[fivegunner]

Don, your right on subject . I was helping the local food prantry guiding people where to park so they could get Free food, look like every body that came had a nicer car than I ever had , One drove a nice Mercedes Benz`s.

[Blanket]

wow, considering input cost to commercially raise and process live shackled, wringer gutted, disinfectant dipped chicken is about 50 cents a pound, 30 cents a pound is an unbelieve able miracle

[Shawlerbrook]

We also grow a garden, but definitely not to save $$. We have a society now where many have lost the ability to provide for themselves. As a wildlife biologist we used to tell the public that by feeding wildlife you are actually interfering in the natural process of a species ability to feed itself. We have basically done the same thing to a portion of our society where they are now helpless and totally dependent on handouts. I always said that one of the worst things that can happen to people is too not be able to be ashamed or feel pride.

[reloader28]

Did the livestock and garden thing growing up. Then started gardening again about 20 years ago.

Not worth the effort. I have almost a year of food prepped. There is a market that has great deals and we stock up during sales: some recent examples...

Canned veggies.....$.19-.29 a can
Pork loin...$1.29/lb
Pork butt.....$.79/lb
Chicken quarters....$2.99 for 10 lb bag
Butter....$.99/lb
Tuna...$.25/can
Spam...$1.50/can
Porterhouses steak...$5.99/lb
Eggs...$.69/doz
Taco kits....$1

Growing stuff is not always less expensive and certainly not needed to be prepared for hard times.

Folks spend a lot of money eating out, and complain about not having money. If they are too lazy to cook, they are not going to raise food. On TV, I see folks in car lines waiting to get food driving $40-50k vehicles...that pisses me off.

I stopped giving to the church food bank when I saw what was going on.


I agree to a point. Our prices are most defiantly different here. In my opinion, your getting by cheap with that store bought garbage, of which hardly any is good for you and none has even half the flavor of home raised stuff.
As for our rabbits, goats, turkeys, chickens and occasional beef that we raise and butcher ourselves, we dont have a huge savings, but it is most defiantly a savings.
The big plus is it is not pumped full of nasty chemicals that EVERYTHING in the store has been injected and produced with, including meat glue and fake red coloring on old off colored meat.
Eggs have very little color in the yoke and no flavor compared to my chicken coop
Of course we buy food in the store too, but we are very picky and in summer we buy very few veggies with our big garden.
Potatoes are for sure cheaper in the store, but not near as flavorfull or handy as garden spuds.
We also live 40 miles from town so its nice to just run to the garden

And yes people have gotten extremely lazy. I'm always telling people to come get excess stuff from the garden, but unless I pick it and bag it for them, they aint interested. If Im going to go to the trouble to pick it, I might as well to keep it. The excess is now given it to the animals now for feed

[Blanket]

yes it is best to eat eggs that came from a red meated bug eating chicken, pork from a pig raised on dirt, beef that is not full of steroids and growth hormones and vegetables that actually have flavor but that is just me

[perotter]

just about all of it. Canned Vegetables, confinement raised pork, chicken. Egg farmed eggs. I guess if you have no taste all of it is ok with you


Home raised vegetables are canned or frozen too. Unless you are going to only eat them for a few days out of the year. I seldom eat eggs as they to much work to make. Maybe you never learned where or how to buy meat.

I grew up eating nothing but very best cuts of home grown meat. And home grown eggs and duck eggs used for baking.

Also my family of both sided never had to grub during the 1930's. I guess they actually knew how to farm and handle money. They always ate the best of what they grew and sold the rest. They managed to buy new tractors, new equipment, build new barns, bought new guns, shortwave radios, etc and paid cash for all of it.

[FLINTNFIRE]

well good for you and your processed food diet

I agree , a garden is still fresher , farm raised and fresh is always better , had a neighbor would not touch corn that was not fresh picked and I agree was much better , a garden is good as in tight times you are not finding no farmers market , and canned goods will be scarce and are not always the best of the best .

It does not cost much to grow a lot of fresh food , and once again the sense of satisfaction from doing it yourself , buy all the meat you want till the lights go out then you better be smoking and canning it , freezers need power if you have a trickle creek you can slip a generator running off a wheel in and make a lot of juice .

To each their own and I have seen a lot of garden fresh go to waste as people are to lazy to walk 20-100 feet and pick it or cook it or peel it and prepare it , offer it and as has been said can you bring it to me all ready to go NO...

[Winger Ed.]

Isn't it strange that food isn't taxed (yet) but you pay sales tax on seeds, chicken feed, garden tools, etc to produce food???

When I was stationed in Virginia, they had a 2% sales tax on groceries.
We don't have sales tax here on food items, except already prepared stuff at restaurants.

The real/commercial farmers & ranchers here don't pay sales tax on their agricultural supplies, or farm equipment.
You do have to sign off on that it--- including untaxed fuel is all for agricultural production.

[FISH4BUGS]

I grow a 35 x 35 garden, and we have 2 6 foot freezers. Composting as much as possible provides great compost for the soil of the garden. Yard waste, leaves and and veggie peelings, etc. make for great soil.
I grow, harvest, vacuum seal and freeze all our squash, leeks, beets, carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and we eat fresh Romaine lettuce from about mid-June till the first frost. Loads of cucumbers for salads all summer.
I give away a fair amount to neighbors and trade with others for eggs, using their roto tiller, etc. The pigs across the road the get all the stuff that has gone by. Their chickens get the greens at harvest. Nothing goes to waste.
All of this is organically grown and there is nothing like it all winter and spring having fresh frozen organic veggies.
Is it work? Yes, it sure as heck is. But it is cheap therapy for me and the health benefits are worth every bit. Bending and stretching will keep me limber into my 80's.
The "Battle of the Bugs" goes on all summer when you organically grow. Daily patrols through the garden to pick off the bugs and squash them. I know they are just trying to make a living but they are stepping on MY toes. I work too hard in the garden to let the bugs or the weeds to take over.
The health benefits of eating from the garden as much as possible cannot be overestimated. Don't get me wrong...i still have an occasional Wendy's temptation that gets to me.
When the garden has been put to bed for the year, I change to casting and reloading to build up the inventory of ammo until garden season starts up again.
Shoot from the closet and eat from the freezer.
Life is good.

[Blanket]

I grow a 35 x 35 garden, and we have 2 6 foot freezers. Composting as much as possible provides great compost for the soil of the garden. Yard waste, leaves and and veggie peelings, etc. make for great soil.
I grow, harvest, vacuum seal and freeze all our squash, leeks, beets, carrots, tomatoes, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and we eat fresh Romaine lettuce from about mid-June till the first frost. Loads of cucumbers for salads all summer.
I give away a fair amount to neighbors and trade with others for eggs, using their roto tiller, etc. The pigs across the road the get all the stuff that has gone by. Their chickens get the greens at harvest. Nothing goes to waste.
All of this is organically grown and there is nothing like it all winter and spring having fresh frozen organic veggies.
Is it work? Yes, it sure as heck is. But it is cheap therapy for me and the health benefits are worth every bit. Bending and stretching will keep me limber into my 80's.
The "Battle of the Bugs" goes on all summer when you organically grow. Daily patrols through the garden to pick off the bugs and squash them. I know they are just trying to make a living but they are stepping on MY toes. I work too hard in the garden to let the bugs or the weeds to take over.
The health benefits of eating from the garden as much as possible cannot be overestimated. Don't get me wrong...i still have an occasional Wendy's temptation that gets to me.
When the garden has been put to bed for the year, I change to casting and reloading to build up the inventory of ammo until garden season starts up again.
Shoot from the closet and eat from the freezer.
Life is good. spot on. Our large garden is 50x150. I have the benefit of having a 90 hp tractor and 7 ft tiller as well as a troybuilt tiller for cultivating. We can and freeze vegetables and meat. When I raise steers I have no problems at all selling the meat as I have several people calling me for beef halves or quarters. I no longer raise chickens but can get farm eggs here for $2 a dozen and buy those for my wife and I as well as my 2 daughters families.
I gladly pick and give away extra produce to several elderly folks that cannot do for themselves, as well as my wife dropping off homemade pies from our apple trees.
We always plant to can 3 years worth based on rotation. For example 3 years worth of canned tomatoes, salsa, and juice and only grow enough each year for fresh. Most folks do not know the differences between what is grown to be commercially canned verses garden raised. In my area green beans are contracted for the big companies and the variety is tasteless. When Heinz changed varieties and went to paste production same thing
As far as bugs, Guinea Fowl make for an excellent insect control method if you don't have close neighbors

[Iowa Fox]

This is the first year in 52 years my wife and I will not have a big garden. We sold the property and our orchard was on it also. We're concerned about it. For us it was two fold, lots of natural exercise which we need at our age, lots of sunshine for the old body and all the good fresh eating, plus all the good stuff my wife canned. Yep. we are going to be lost.

[Thundarstick]

I remember reading where someone calculated the actual cost of venison, it was about the cost of Kobe beef!

I don't garden for the cost savings, as has been pointed out are minor, if at all. I grow a garden because I can grow the vegetable varieties I like best. I routinely grow varieties you'll never see in the produce isles at your supermarket because they don't keep well, and don't ship well. Tomatoes with soft thin skin don't do well in shipping containers bouncing around the back of a truck, or hold up to harvesters routinely tossing them into boxes. This is true for most any vegetable in the produce section, and usually doubly so for commercially canned goods. I can walk out to my garden and pick every fruit or vegetable at exactly the ripeness I wish and at the height of its flavor. Gardening also adds to my health in exercise and my spiritual joy. Joy? Yes, the joy I receive in seeing things grow that I have had a hand in, and the joy of being able to help others in need with not only produce, but knowledge of gardening. Contrary to what many believe, there are young people who take up gardening and home animal husbandry for various reasons. Knowing what's in your food, been used on your food, and how it was produced and packaged is important to many young families.

To prepers I'll throw in, the time to learn how to grow food isn't AFTER the SHTF! Being prepared is more than having a stockpile, it's also about knowledge and experience. A friend of mine was telling me all about how he had all the ammo ready for the fall of society, and how he was ready. I replied, where's your garden? Where's your chickens? Unless your survival plan is to shoot others and steel your food that old horse ain't gonna feed you for long!

[GhostHawk]

I grew up with my 3 siblings helping to take care of a 2 acre garden. We lived off that garden summer fall and winter. Excess was frozen. Eventually we had so much we ended up selling potatoes, carrots and Onions to the School.

Income from the garden bought us a day in the big city 40 miles away, a movie, popcorn, and a supper out where no one had to cook or do the dishes.

While I love the food I hated the work. I grow a few things in tubs on my patio but I never had a green thumb. I'm good with tree's and bushes. Not so much stuff that has to be planted, weeded, watered and tended. As I age and summers seem to get hotter I have less and less desire to be out gardening.

[FISH4BUGS]

I remember reading where someone calculated the actual cost of venison, it was about the cost of Kobe beef!
I never look at the cost of the garden.
I DID, once upon a time, have a small lobster boat and fished out of Portsmouth NH harbor with about 25 traps.
I calculated the cost of my lobster once and figured it cost me something like $40 a pound one year.
Blown outboard, lost gear, bait, fuel, etc.
But truly that was not the point.
I really think gardening is far more cost effective than lobstering.
Maybe this year I will watch my costs and see what it really costs me to garden.
Just out of curiosity only.
Even if it costs more than the store bought (which I doubt), I know where it came from, what it was fed, and that it is truly organic.

[MUSTANG]

I never look at the cost of the garden.
I DID, once upon a time, have a small lobster boat and fished out of Portsmouth NH harbor with about 25 traps.
I calculated the cost of my lobster once and figured it cost me something like $40 a pound one year.
Blown outboard, lost gear, bait, fuel, etc.
But truly that was not the point.
I really think gardening is far more cost effective than lobstering.
Maybe this year I will watch my costs and see what it really costs me to garden.
Just out of curiosity only.
Even if it costs more than the store bought (which I doubt), I know where it came from, what it was fed, and that it is truly organic.


I get to do all the "Day Labor" work not wife gardening, she does the planting, tending and harvesting; I get the weed pulling when it gets more than she wants to deal with. The cost from all her gardening wants and desires - exceeds the cost of buying same items and volume in the grocery store.

Yet; every year we have more in the Pantry and Freezers than we needed; even with Kids/Grandkids/Friends visitations. We also have peace of mind that if (When) the shortages for a garden area or even worse wide general shortage arises we do not have rush to the store to find empty shelves.

[dverna]

I get to do all the "Day Labor" work not wife gardening, she does the planting, tending and harvesting; I get the weed pulling when it gets more than she wants to deal with. The cost from all her gardening wants and desires - exceeds the cost of buying same items and volume in the grocery store.

Yet; every year we have more in the Pantry and Freezers than we needed; even with Kids/Grandkids/Friends visitations. We also have peace of mind that if (When) the shortages for a garden area or even worse wide general shortage arises we do not have rush to the store to find empty shelves.

Hope you live in an area where others garden as well, otherwise you are a supply cache. If I was scouting a place to attack to take food, I would look for properties with livestock, fruit trees, and gardens. They act like giant billboards..."WE HAVE FOOD". It is one reason I stopped gardening after Y2K when I lived in the suburbs....do I shoot my "neighbors" first or wait for them to shoot me if the SHTF?

When we moved to rural MI, nearly everyone had a garden. We were getting a lot of food and eggs given to us. Realized we did not need to plant a garden. If the SHTF, we can help others grow food and barter things like labor, firewood, ammunition, gun repairs, tractor time, lathe work, etc. I started doing minor gun repairs, mounting scopes, sighting in, and gave ammunition to people who needed it. Helped build outbuildings and do grading with the tractor. Even loaned money to a couple of families that needed help. So the ground work has been done for a strong community if the SHTF.

At 70, I cannot work like I used to. Rural folks have skill sets I lack and I have skills/resources they lack. But even a large family will not survive a SHTF event for very long. Without a community, it will be a short life. If the SHTF, we currently have 6 families producing garden stuff and three also produce livestock.

We have enough food not to be a burden for about a year....if we make it that long.

[gbrown]

My Dad was raised on a hard scrabble farm in Central TX. They raised their food and animals to eat. Monday morning, my grandmother and the 2 oldest girls baked 7 loaves of bread for the week. That was before the 2 mile walk to school. The little ones rode the mules, the older ones walked. A family of 11. As a child growing up, I did my share of chopping weeds, plucking chickens, geese, ducks and whatever else Dad brought home. Also, got a good education in cleaning muddy oysters and opening them. When Dad retired in 82, he shared land with a good buddy who had the original family plot, about 5-8 acres. Dad also raised veggies and grapes in the back of 2 city lots our house sat on. The 15 loads of sand that built that up was all shoveled by my brother and I. He was recovering from abdominal surgery. Dad and Mom would can and freeze it all. He was a heck of a man, and could feed his family.

[FLINTNFIRE]

gbrown , those were tough times and it raised men who stood up and did what needed doing , when those men talk I listen as there is something to be learned , as my dad said to the college educated engineer brother with his 2 or 3 degrees , you just sit there as I build this as your book learning did not teach common sense , I was raised to cut wood for the house , and pluck chickens feed stock whatever needed doing and no excuses accepted .

Funny he never reloaded but saved every brass , when I got older and was working in the woods I bought myself a RCBS rockchucker and all the needed items and started loading that brass for my shooting and for the family , he never had to buy any more cartridges for his 30-06 and when I gave him a 7mm rem. mag. he has shot only my reloads out of it .

If the doo doo ever hits the fan those who can will and those who can not will starve , but shortages are different then the world coming to a end and those who grow and know how to make will fare better , those grain elevators hold a lot of grain but so many people could not make flour out of it and there is a lot of good beer for those of us who can make our own .

[Winger Ed.]

Most of my older relatives were farmers, ranchers, or had a big garden every year.
I try to keep close to my roots on the gardening thing.

I'll plant a tomato plant, or 5-6 what I call 'bean trees' every year or so.
But now that I've retired---
I make sure to plant one 89 cent package of sunflower seeds along the back fence every year for the birds.

Year before last, they even left enough for me to salt/bake and have about a quart of them.

[gbrown]

gbrown , those were tough times and it raised men who stood up and did what needed doing , when those men talk I listen as there is something to be learned , as my dad said to.

If the doo doo ever hits the fan those who can will and those who can not will starve , but shortages are different then the world coming to a end and those who grow and know how to make will fare better , those grain elevators hold a lot of grain but so many people could not make flour out of it and there is a lot of good beer for those of us who can make our own .
Yes, you are completely right. I have those skills, some taught by parents, some self taught. Can make a hefe weisen or a good dark brew similar to a good English stout. I am confident in my ability.