Shipping a BP Revolver Question

[Andy45]

Can one ship a BP Revolver via USPS? Obviously no HazMat powder or caps incuded.)
Thanks, Andy

(Yes, I am aware I must check the buyer's state laws!)

[condorjohn]

This has been discussed at length on one of the muzzleloader forums. Apparently there is a fairly new USPS policy that all
antique and/or muzzleloader handguns must be sent to a FFL or C&R license holder. I have no idea what their thinking is since the BATFE does not even consider muzzleloaders to be firearms. Go figure...

[pietro]

.

I just received a C&B revolver in a USPS Priority mail box.

I would take the chance & mail it. (faghettabout insurance, since you'll be denied payment for the gun) - YMMV

Remember, there is NO legal responsibility to answer a Postal Clerk's questions, except for truthfully answering questions about the parcel's mailability.

The mandatory questions every P.O. Clerk is supposed to ask about a parcel's contents are:

Are the contents explosive ?
Are the contents hazardous ?
Are the contents flammable ?
Are the contents fragile (I always yes, so the parcel can be so marked)
Are the contents liquid ?
Does the contents include batteries ?

If a Postal Clerk goes beyond those specific questions, they are out of bounds by their own regulations.

Remember, even a fish wouldn't get into trouble, if it would only learn to keep it's big mouth shut.


.

[Andy45]

OK, UPS it is because I don't want to be out $300 plus shipping cost of USPS insurance won't be honored.
This new reg is a PITA!

[mooman76]

Yes. A fellow on another forum had one shipped USPS. It got close to him then disappeared. He tried to collect insurance but because he didn't have it shipped to an FFL, they wouldn't honor it. He appealed it and still got denied. UPS is the way to go and they have insurance also. USPS is going down hill fast.

[Ural Driver]

Since I witnessed the local PO refuse to accept a package from a woman, because the box she was using to ship in was an old whiskey box of some sort, I have pretty much given up on them. Too many other shippers out there to put up with their lousy attitudes.

[waksupi]

This has been discussed at length on one of the muzzleloader forums. Apparently there is a fairly new USPS policy that all
antique and/or muzzleloader handguns must be sent to a FFL or C&R license holder. I have no idea what their thinking is since the BATFE does not even consider muzzleloaders to be firearms. Go figure...

According to the BATF, the PO can't ask if it's a gun you are shipping.

[condorjohn]

According to the BATF, the PO can't ask if it's a gun you are shipping.


So True. But, there's the insurance problem. It's kind of a gamble.

[Geezer in NH]

Cap and balls do not take Fixed ammo nothing has changed on that just interpretation by internet users. Wrongly at that IMHO.

[Adam Helmer]

According to the BATF, the PO can't ask if it's a gun you are shipping.

waksupi,

I am a retired Postal Inspector and do not have my Domestic Mail Manual (DMM) or other books to be up to date on shipping a C&B handgun. The BATF has NO standing to say what a postal employee may ask about the Mailability of any matter about to be entered into the mail stream. The DMM is quite specific about mailability and clerk questions. Where did you learn the BATF has jurisdiction about USPS employee questions at the point of mailing?

Adam

[Adam Helmer]

.

I just received a C&B revolver in a USPS Priority mail box.

I would take the chance & mail it. (faghettabout insurance, since you'll be denied payment for the gun) - YMMV

Remember, there is NO legal responsibility to answer a Postal Clerk's questions, except for truthfully answering questions about the parcel's mailability.

The mandatory questions every P.O. Clerk is supposed to ask about a parcel's contents are:

Are the contents explosive ?
Are the contents hazardous ?
Are the contents flammable ?
Are the contents fragile (I always yes, so the parcel can be so marked)
Are the contents liquid ?
Does the contents include batteries ?

If a Postal Clerk goes beyond those specific questions, they are out of bounds by their own regulations.

Remember, even a fish wouldn't get into trouble, if it would only learn to keep it's big mouth shut.


.
pietro,

If you will not answer the postal clerk's questions at point of mailing, the DMM allows the clerk to open your parcel, examine it and reject it for mailing if you lied! Mailing items in violation of Regulations subjects the mailer to criminal prosecution under 18 U.S.C 1815, et, al.

Adam

[charlie b]

So, looking at the USPS rules it seems all muzzle loaders fall under the Antique Arms description:

431.3 Antique Firearm
Antique firearm means any muzzle loading rifle/shotgun/pistol, which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition (except those that incorporate a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof); or any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured on or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Then this clause applies:

432.2 Handguns
Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

I did not see any other references to ML firearms in the postal regulations that are on line now.
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/welcome.htm

[freakonaleash]

I ship muzzleloaders all the time via USPS and I state what is in the box and insure for full value. Now, the UPS hub in Davenport IA. on the other hand told me I can't ship hand guns of any kind even to an FFL because their employees steal them. It's always a good idea to print off the shipper's regs and have them in hand when shipping guns. The employees generally don't have a clue what their regulations on guns are, even then you must demand they call their supervisor because they don't understand the regulations.
ALL of this may/will change with the new Government administration., and NOT towards the good.

[Outpost75]

I won't ship anything of value by USPS. I am still getting Christmas cards and seasonal catalogs which expired Jan. 1, 2021.

[Tripplebeards]

Send it fed ex. It just cost me $14.98 to ship a muzzle loading rifle. It arrived two states over to the recipient the next day...in less than 24 hours!

[Edward]

This has been discussed at length on one of the muzzleloader forums. Apparently there is a fairly new USPS policy that all
antique and/or muzzleloader handguns must be sent to a FFL or C&R license holder. I have no idea what their thinking is since the BATFE does not even consider muzzleloaders to be firearms. Go figure...

I shipped a C+B back to Dixie Gun priority for repair (#1 mistake /#2 was just going with the $50.00 insurance included .Tracking got to a Tenn hub . ^weeks later the nice lady from Dixie called said she finally got the (box ) not the content ,even took photos for me showing the razor slit taped back up . Seems anything going thru that hub with there address ends up vanishing . Everyone atmy my end new what was shipped no problem other than the $50.00 didn"t cover any 1 part .This was last year . The only thing I do different is insure full value and never ship to a gun related address . That goes UPS ,works for my FFL and me too ! Ed

[Petrol & Powder]

A few points:

A FIREARM is a device originally designed to expel a projectile by explosive means.
Simply because an antique firearm may not fall under the limits set by the 1968 Gun Control Act, doesn't mean the item is not a firearm. A muzzle loader or cap & ball revolver may not fall under the 1968 GCA but it is still a firearm.

The USPS has the authority to set regulations for anything they ship, including handguns. So while the BATFE may not consider a cap & ball revolver to be an item that falls under the 1968 GCA, the USPS can still regulate the shipment of a handgun. A cap & ball revolver is still a firearm and it is still a handgun.

So while it may be legal to transfer a cap & ball revolver through interstate commerce without utilizing a FFL, the USPS does not give up its authority to regulate the items it handles.

[charlie b]

That's why I quoted the postal service regulation. They have that one line that deals specifically with muzzle loading pistols and require a C&R license to ship.

[charlie b]

duplicate

[waksupi]

waksupi,

I am a retired Postal Inspector and do not have my Domestic Mail Manual (DMM) or other books to be up to date on shipping a C&B handgun. The BATF has NO standing to say what a postal employee may ask about the Mailability of any matter about to be entered into the mail stream. The DMM is quite specific about mailability and clerk questions. Where did you learn the BATF has jurisdiction about USPS employee questions at the point of mailing?

Adam

From the BATF regional office in Minneapolis/St. Paul.

[Petrol & Powder]

The USPS has control over the items in their system that they are shipping. They get to say yes or no concerning any piece of mail or package under their control.
BATFE is responsible, in part, for enforcing federal laws concerning firearms.

Neither agency (USPS or BATFE) "trumps" the other. A person shipping a firearm via USPS must comply with BOTH the federal firearm laws AND the USPS regulations.

The decisions of one agency do not bind the other agency.

[farmbif]

I agree that most of the employees at the different shipping places don't have a clue..
most cap and ball handguns I'm familiar with come apart very easily. can be shipped in 2 boxes and listed as metal tool parts

as far as employees not having a clue I spent two full afternoons recently making phone calls and being transferred from one "expert" to another trying to get a definitive answer as to how I can legally ship smokeless powder and primers. nobody could give me an answer and kept either giving me new numbers to call or being transferred to some other shipping clerk. it seems some people say that ups centers will allow yo to bring you're stuff in pack it in front of them and they will label it. but others said I have to take a course first and pass a test and pay a fee. go figure?