Has anyone tried chambering an AR for .45 Long Colt?

[VariableRecall]

This sounds like a very dumb question, but has anyone (Manufacturer, gunsmith, wacko?) tried making an AR in .45 Long Colt?

Considering how popular lever action carbines are in that caliber it stands to reason that someone's going to put it in an AR platform.

Rimmed cartridges don't sound like a fun time for a magazine, let alone chambering a rimmed cartridge that should be headspacing on the rim instead of the case mouth in an AR.

Either way, such pursuits do seem rather noble, at least it would make for one heck of an engineering challenge.

[Brassmonkey]

.410 shotshell uppers exist, .45LC cant be far off.

[tai95]

.410 shotshell uppers exist, .45LC cant be far off.

that's what I was thinking. Not an AR platform, but saiga makes a AK clone .410. I always thought a 30rd .410 would make a great home defense bedroom gun. Enough of a punch to knock a person down, light recoil, and you wouldn't have to worry about strays going through the house and hitting a non target.

[Harter66]

There's a 45 Raptor that is just a rimless 460 S&W . I don't see why a 45 Colts Ruger/454 wouldn't be possible . The #15 rifle is in the 450 and 458 SoCwolf's both on further rebated 284 case no reason why the same can't be done to a Mauser clan case .
The 450 BW is probably really close to what you're looking at .

[P Flados]

Making the AR-15 platform run well with an oddball cartridge can be a pain.

I have done a couple, and for me it was worth it. I got a 357AR max before the 350L was introduced and I am working on a 7 TCU.

The 450 Bushmaster and the 458 Socom are available and well understood.

I doubt that an AR 15 bolt could handle modified to work with a rimmed 45 (it is just too big). And what would be the purpose of a 45 colt length rebated rimless cartridge?

[Old School Big Bore]

The .450 BM in the AR15 platform and the .45 Raptor in the AR10 platform accomplish what you're looking for. If you want a go-fast same-caliber companion for your 45LC revolver, the Thunderer pump gun and R92 already fill that bill.
Ed <><

[VariableRecall]

The .450 BM in the AR15 platform and the .45 Raptor in the AR10 platform accomplish what you're looking for. If you want a go-fast same-caliber companion for your 45LC revolver, the Thunderer pump gun and R92 already fill that bill.
Ed <><

Honestly, I'm not looking for it at all. It was just something I was thinking about since these days people have tried to put just about everything into an AR.

.357 Max in the AR seems like a similar pistol caliber carbine pursuit.

I'm just tossing some ideas out into the wild. .454 Casull in an AR would be something to behold.

[Lloyd Smale]

Honestly, I'm not looking for it at all. It was just something I was thinking about since these days people have tried to put just about everything into an AR.

.357 Max in the AR seems like a similar pistol caliber carbine pursuit.

I'm just tossing some ideas out into the wild. .454 Casull in an AR would be something to behold.

just get a bushmaster. Ammo and brass are easier to find the 454s and its capable of even more then the 454.

[VariableRecall]

just get a bushmaster. Ammo and brass are easier to find the 454s and its capable of even more then the 454.

Someday, someone's going to make an AR in every SAAMI caliber on the market. I'd certainly wish them luck. Those shenanigans aren't my speed, but it would be fun to watch!

[MrWolf]

that's what I was thinking. Not an AR platform, but saiga makes a AK clone .410. I always thought a 30rd .410 would make a great home defense bedroom gun. Enough of a punch to knock a person down, light recoil, and you wouldn't have to worry about strays going through the house and hitting a non target.

Charles Daly makes a .410 upper. I have one. Lot of fun.

[Moleman-]

44 mag has been done as has 357 magnum. Since they make a 410 upper the easiest way might be to get one of those and rebarrel it to 45lc. Mags are usually the stumblingly block. The 44 and 357 mag uppers I'm aware of used desert eagle mags stuffed in an ar-15 magazine body to feed the rimmed cartridges.

[Bigslug]

More to the point, has anyone tried chambering an 1873 Peacemaker for 5.56mm NATO? ;-)

You'd probably have an easier time in AR-Land with the .45 Win Mag's standard 7mm Mauser-diameter-derived rimless head.

Other than rims and mags, the engineering challenges as I see it would be determining if the gas system will be set to run at Peacemaker or Redhawk pressure levels and coming up with a load that doesn't filth up the AR's gas system.

And on that topic, imagine the fouling horror if some SASS guy decides to run his real blackpowder loads in it.:shock:

[Garyshome]

wacko is right!

[Butzbach]

44 mag has been done as has 357 magnum. Since they make a 410 upper the easiest way might be to get one of those and rebarrel it to 45lc. Mags are usually the stumblingly block. The 44 and 357 mag uppers I'm aware of used desert eagle mags stuffed in an ar-15 magazine body to feed the rimmed cartridges.

Did the 357 uppers actually work? I'm looking for an alternative to paying $1,500+ for a $300 gun which the IMI Timberwolf 357 pump is IMHO. I'd like other than a lever action to go with my S&W model 19.

[VariableRecall]

More to the point, has anyone tried chambering an 1873 Peacemaker for 5.56mm NATO? ;-)

You'd probably have an easier time in AR-Land with the .45 Win Mag's standard 7mm Mauser-diameter-derived rimless head.

Other than rims and mags, the engineering challenges as I see it would be determining if the gas system will be set to run at Peacemaker or Redhawk pressure levels and coming up with a load that doesn't filth up the AR's gas system.

And on that topic, imagine the fouling horror if some SASS guy decides to run his real blackpowder loads in it.:shock:

I can imagine the horror already. Then again, SASS with a wacky .45 Colt-ed AR would be something for the history books.

The trouble is, how do you make an AR resemble the rifles of the Old West? Maybe a yellow anodization job and wooden furniture? Or maybe just given a Wrought Iron looking Powder coat...

[Moleman-]

Did the 357 uppers actually work? I'm looking for an alternative to paying $1,500+ for a $300 gun which the IMI Timberwolf 357 pump is IMHO. I'd like other than a lever action to go with my S&W model 19.

Not very well and they're expensive also unless you can make your own. Any of the pistol caliber uppers in DI need the gas port very close to the chamber. Being that close lots of fouling gets into the action and bolt carrier.

[Lloyd Smale]

pistol caliber ars dont have gas ports. There blow back.

[BK7saum]

Most are. I think Olympic made some DI 10mm uppers. Something as large as a 45colt might need to be piston or DI driven

[zarrinvz24]

That would truly be something amazing, a 5.56 SAA.


More to the point, has anyone tried chambering an 1873 Peacemaker for 5.56mm NATO? ;-)

You'd probably have an easier time in AR-Land with the .45 Win Mag's standard 7mm Mauser-diameter-derived rimless head.

Other than rims and mags, the engineering challenges as I see it would be determining if the gas system will be set to run at Peacemaker or Redhawk pressure levels and coming up with a load that doesn't filth up the AR's gas system.

And on that topic, imagine the fouling horror if some SASS guy decides to run his real blackpowder loads in it.:shock:

[bruce drake]

not worth the headache to create a rimmed AR in my opinion and I'm the one on this wacky (or deranged) enough to continulally make wildcats for ARs. so far, I've got 4 different wildcats outside of the standard 223 Rem cartridge and none of them are rimmed.

Bruce

[Moleman-]

pistol caliber ars dont have gas ports. There blow back.

MOST pistol caliber uppers are blowback, but not all. Google 9mm, 40S&W, 10MM, 45acp, 357Mag, 357SIG, 44mag, 45WM, or 9x23 DI uppers and you should be able to find info on them. I have 3 blowback 9mm's and 3 DI 9mms. The 9mm DI barrels have a gas port about 1.25" in front of the casemouth step in the chamber and use a 5.45x39 BCG (or opened up 223 bolt) I mostly shoot the blowback guns as they're cleaner, and less picky about ammo.

[Baltimoreed]

I have several .45acp blowback pcc’s that are great. The CMMG system is a lot nicer than the old Olympic Arms blowback stuff but I don’t see why you couldn’t do a .45 Winchester magnum. Would take some r&d on your loads and buffer springs. Good luck.

[perotter]

pistol caliber ars dont have gas ports. There blow back.

Except the .45 LC can and is loaded fairly heavy. Think std 45/70 range. I'd think blow back for this round might not be the best idea.

Of course the great range of loads used in this round make less than ideal as a gas gun. Personally if trying to design for an action type in an AR with this round, I'd first look would making it an inertia system. And a second of choice of primer activated like the Clarke was.

With one or the other then any round that made 10,000 psi would work. Even blackpowder loads would work.

[Earlwb]

I don't find any AR cartridge with a rim diameter exceeding .473 inches. The .45 Colt uses a .512 inches dimension. The main reason for that is that the bolt face would not have any locking lugs left to safely keep the bolt locked when firing. The .512 inch rim diameter exceeds the bolt face size. There have been some rimless versions of the .45 Colt made though. Those use a rebated rim thus would fit the bolt face Ok. The rebated rims tend to be around .443 inches thus giving the bolts more locking lug area. .473 inch tends to leave just enough sized locking lugs to work.

[country gent]

With an AR15 platform and the pressures the colt can be loaded to ( black hawk levels) I would be concerned with the barrels shank tenon wall thickness. The body of the 45 co;t is around .480 the body of the 223 is around .380. Going to a AR10 would negate this issue but in a AR 10 I can think of better rounds.

The other I see is the difference in cartridge lengths effect on feeding.

I have bored ar bolts for 762 x 39 or ppc ( .441) and the supporting ring gets very thin with the .520 face it would be non existant. Another would be "adjusting" the new extractor for the larger rim

[Moleman-]

Still think it's "do"able if you're motivated enough. There's always one of the WSSM bolts/extensions/uppers which would be more than large enough for the rim dia or going with an ar10/LR308 platform as already suggested. With Olympic being closed again, the WSSM bolt/extension/upper or 22-250 bolts/extensions are going to be much harder to source though as the other players generally don't sell just parts. They may be willing to make one for you is you throw enough money at it. FWIW the 22-250 bolts/extensions use the same 13/16"x16tpi .620" ish barrel tenon of the 5.56 barrels and have a .570" wide bolt head face v/s the 5.56 .530"ish. The bolt pocket would still be very thin, but not much different than a standard 450BM bolt. There are quite a few 45 raptor uppers out there floating around using the 22-250 bolts/extensions and the 13/16"-16tpi tenon doesn't seem to be an issue. All that said, something like a 45wm would be a much easier option and could use 450BM bolt/extensions and 450BM magazines with the feed lips bent in slightly and possibly a spacer depending on COL. I have a 44x1.6" off of 30-06 brass (like a rimless 445SM with a larger base dia) that runs off of 450BM parts, and a 44x1.8" and 40x1.8" (400FUW) again both off of 30-06 brass that use the 22-250 bolts/extensions and 450BM mags.

[VariableRecall]

Still think it's "do"able if you're motivated enough. There's always one of the WSSM bolts/extensions/uppers which would be more than large enough for the rim dia or going with an ar10/LR308 platform as already suggested. With Olympic being closed again, the WSSM bolt/extension/upper or 22-250 bolts/extensions are going to be much harder to source though as the other players generally don't sell just parts. They may be willing to make one for you is you throw enough money at it. FWIW the 22-250 bolts/extensions use the same 13/16"x16tpi .620" ish barrel tenon of the 5.56 barrels and have a .570" wide bolt head face v/s the 5.56 .530"ish. The bolt pocket would still be very thin, but not much different than a standard 450BM bolt. There are quite a few 45 raptor uppers out there floating around using the 22-250 bolts/extensions and the 13/16"-16tpi tenon doesn't seem to be an issue. All that said, something like a 45wm would be a much easier option and could use 450BM bolt/extensions and 450BM magazines with the feed lips bent in slightly and possibly a spacer depending on COL. I have a 44x1.6" off of 30-06 brass (like a rimless 445SM with a larger base dia) that runs off of 450BM parts, and a 44x1.8" and 40x1.8" (400FUW) again both off of 30-06 brass that use the 22-250 bolts/extensions and 450BM mags.

I think I can save the experimentation for a lot braver people. Now, adopting a loading gate and tube magazine adapter would be another thing, that's for certain.

[bigwagon]

Sounds like it would be quite a project making a rimmed cartridge work. But for a lot less effort I think a similar goal could be realized with an upper in 458 Socom.