Difficult Barrel Removal on Mauser

[bruce drake]

OK,

I've removed about a dozen Mauser barrels over the last few years. Each has only required that I load it into my Wheeler Barrel Vise, crank the vise down tight and than give the barrel wrench a good strong hammer whack (scientific term there) to loosen it up from the receiver for easy removal.

I've got a M24/47 Yugo with a crap barrel that has not budged with several good whacks. Instead the rifle turns within my oak blocks and I've got the vise cranked down and then tapped tight. I've never used the Rosin (at $14 for 6oz) that MidwayUSA hypes in their catalog.

I've read before that heat applied to the barrel may help loosen things up (expansion/contraction)or that relief cuts on the barrel itself might help.

Three Questions:

1 -IS the powdered resin worth the money or is there something else that can be used to keep the barrel from turning within the barrel blocks?

2. Heat should be applied to the barrel since it's crap and to prevent any issues with heat treating of the Mauser Receiver, correct?

3. IF I Cut the barrel (its worthless due to rust and pitting),How deep? And are the relief cuts parallel to the barrel's bore or do I cut the relief cut around the entire circumference? Brownells' "Gunsmith's Kinks" book series talks about the cut but don't provide a picture. I've got a Dremel and I'm not afraid to use it (famous last words...)

My regular gunsmith friend closed his shop while I was deployed and is currently in Afghanistan on contract maintenance work for the next year.

I'm on vacation for the next couple of weeks and I'd like to get this barrel off to reset it for a cast boolit only 22-250.

Bruce

[725]

I had one that took literally a month to take off. I set it in a vise, did on and off heat and PB Blaster / Kroil / WD-40. Even started to look for clove oil, but it came off before I actually went out and spent money for some. Every day I would walk past it, hit it with some kroil or PB Blaster, try a twist, and then do it again another day. It came off with some herculian effort. I was tempted to do a relief cut but never got around to it.
PS. I spend a little time south of you during the summer. On the lake. I do love it up there.

[oneokie]

Super Glue? Remove with fingernail polish remover.

[Junior1942]

>I'm on vacation for the next couple of weeks and I'd like to get this barrel off to reset it for a cast boolit only 22-250.

?????? That's one of the last cartridges I'd consider for a cast bullet barrel. Would you explain why you want that?

[waksupi]

Bruce, you can get rosin from a sporting goods store much cheaper. Look around baseball, or gymnastics supplies.
I'd leave it submerged in some good penetrating oil until you got home.

[Ozarki]

I had a barrel on a CZ 24 that defied everything I tried to do. The oil, the heat, and even tightend down the vise so hard that I broke the oak inserts. This over a year or so. One day I stumbled onto dad's old pipe vise and since the barrel was junk anyway so what. It came off only after gauging up the barrel badly. I have a K-98 that is next and I going to try some of the rubber that goes in the bottom of tool box drawers.

[anachronism]

Freeze it for a few days, then apply heat with a propane torch. Don't overheat it, it's not necessary. The quick change from frozen to hot is usually enough to break the bond. When you apply heat, heat only the part that you want to expand, which would be the receiver. Heating the barrel & not the receiver would likely make the fit tighter until temperatures equalize

[m.chalmers]

freezer trick or dremmel/hack saw 1/8" from receiver and 1/8"-1/4" deep in the barrel

[HeavyMetal]

The Mauser action runs the barrel up against a shoulder inside the action itself!

Therefore cutting gets you nothing! I think the idea of stripping the action and letting it soak in Kroil for a week or two a good idea!

Since the barrel is junk a good pipe vise, as already mentioned, put the barrel in it and crank until it bends if need be! Get as close to the action as you can with the vise! Now this is the important part: set this up so that the barrel wrench is at a right angle to the floor! If you have a barrel wrench that has two sides put a cheater bar on each side and, with help from a friend, add a bunch of even pressure to both sides!

This should pop it loose! Heating an action scares me! If this was mine this is the tactic I would use until the barrrel came loose or I got a hernia, whichever came first!

[m.chalmers]

cutting will reduce the stress. It works well on Mausers and M1917 Enfields.

[yondering]

Do you have access to a welder? I bought 4 of the VZ 24 mausers a few years ago when they were cheap, and every one of them was real stubborn when I removed the barrels. One of them was really stubborn, like what you described, and the barrel just spun in the vise. Since the barrel was junk, I used the MIG welder to run a weld bead along the barrel, parallel to the bore, for the length of the vise jaws. I did this on the other side of the barrel too, for good measure. This kept the barrel from spinning in the vise, and with the use of a cheater pipe on the action wrench, it popped right off. That action is now part of a very accurate 30-06 scout rifle.

[Charley]

The Yugo's I've played with were torqued up real good. First one I did, I went with an escalation of force. Relief cut didn't help...Kroil for a week didn't help...cold then heat didn't help.
Finally, since the barrel was going to be junked anyway, especially after a relief cut, I put the barreled action in my vise, tightened a 14 inch pipe wrench onto the barrel, and let the wrench handle bear on my bench, and then I could break it loose with body weight.
Rosin is cheap at sporting goods store, a rosin bag for baseball is about a buck or two.

[leftiye]

BIG pipe wrench! (not totally serious - just couldn't resist) IF the barrel is junk, you can even mill flats on it for purchase. ( In the extreme, you could even - Drill a hole through it and put a rod in the hole?) I do think that the freezing/ heating thing with kroil soaking sounds good. I'd apply the heat to the reciever only (just don't heat it beyond 200 degrees F.) to cause maximum disparate expansion. Bring up the heat as fast as is possible with a cherry, maybe.

[MtGun44]

I wonder if a chunk of dry ice held against the chamber portion of the bbl
for a while plus warming the recvr ring with a torch would do it.

Bill

[Larry Gibson]

The big pie wrench works quite well as does a large vise with teeth. Best is to chuck it up in a lathe and turn the shoulder off (or make s stright in cut) where it butts aganst the reciever. This relieves the pressure and the barrel will turn right off.

Juinior1942

The 22-250 generally has a 14" twist, that is good! It also has a larger case capacity so slower burning powders can be used lessoning the time pressure curves. Bass Ackwards can explain the attributes of that to you quite well. The 22-250 actually makes for a nice .22 caliber case bulllet cartridge especially with 225646.

Larry Gibson

[johnly]

I can send you some rosin if you want to give it a try.

Personally I use brass blocks in my barrel vise along with a Wheeler action wrench. Any brass smudges can be removed with Sweets.

John

[Phil]

GI Mauser barrels do NOT seat on the shoulder. The butt end of the barrel seats on the inner collar of the receiver. There is no shoulder to make a relief cut on.

What are your barrel vise inserts made of? They need to be aluminum or steel. Wood won't work. You need to put rosin on them. Tighten the vise halves with a piece of pipe on the wrench. They need to be tight. Put a very much oversize (in diameter) piece of pipe, about four or five feet long, on the handle of your action wrench. With the wrench handle/pipe parallel with the floor, lift the pipe until it stops, then SLAM it down. Never needed more than one or two whacks to get a barrel off, never harmed a barrel or action, done it this way for over thirty years. Its the sudden, sharp, snap that does it.

Cheers and Happy New Years gang,

Phil

[bruce drake]

Junior,

As the saying goes, Because I've got the barrel and I want to try it out with the LEE Bator 55gr Mold.

Phil, I've always used the wooden inserts cranked down tight to remove the barrels. So if I lay brass shims inside the wooden inserts along with the rosin (Waksupi - thanks for the idea. Rosin bag was .99 at the local sporting goods store.) it should help with the securing this barrel down.

I think I'll try the Coke tomorrow as I don't have that much Kroil available to soak the entire receiver.

My vacation is here at the house, so I'll be whacking at this barrel everyday until the dang thing comes off.

Bruce

[Phil]

Hi Bruce,

Keep me posted on how it goes. My barrel setup is Brownell's so it may be different than the setup you're using. My barrel vise is steel and has four big allen headed bolts to assemble the halves. I just bore 3" long aluminum round bar stock to fit whatever barrel I'm working on and then split it in a saw. You can get those puppies TIGHT. I would put a piece if steel in the bolt raceway all the way to the end of the barrel to keep from deforming the receiver.

Three more days to vacation. Whoopee!

Cheers,

Phil

[bruce drake]

It took almost an entire 2 Liter bottle of Coke with the top cut off to fit the receiver inside it. It's standing in the corner of the garage bubbling away as I type. More to follow later.

Bruce

[No_1]

Welcome back Bruce. Did you just dunk the reciever in the bottle of coke?

Robert

[bruce drake]

Yep. Took the trigger off first but just slipped into the 2 Liter bottle of coke. Cut the top off a empty bottle and then filled it to just over the top of the front reciever ring.

Now it's standing in the corner over the garage away from anyone to tip it over. It's working on something. dipped my fingers in the coke when I went to adjust the barrel this morning. Left a greasy feel to my fingers. Must be stripping the cosmolene that it was caked in as well.

Spent the day installing crown molding in the bathroom for the missus. Might get to the barrel tomorrow after Church.

Bruce

[No_1]

Good deal. Please keep us posted.

Robert

BTW, you dipped your finger in it and it felt greasy, what did it taste like? :kidding:



Yep. Took the trigger off first but just slipped into the 2 Liter bottle of coke. Cut the top off a empty bottle and then filled it to just over the top of the front reciever ring.

Now it's standing in the corner over the garage away from anyone to tip it over. It's working on something. dipped my fingers in the coke when I went to adjust the barrel this morning. Left a greasy feel to my fingers. Must be stripping the cosmolene that it was caked in as well.

Spent the day installing crown molding in the bathroom for the missus. Might get to the barrel tomorrow after Church.

Bruce

[bruce drake]

Like New Coke!!:roll:

[JIMinPHX]

Coke can be pretty corrosive. It has a lot of phosphoric acid in it. I've known people to clean chrome with it. It's not really my first choice for dunking an action. I'd probably have chosen something less aggressive, like WD-40 or bust rust.

My most frequently successful method for separating frozen parts involves repeated applications of WD in conjunction with repeated hammer taps & lots of patients, followed by eventual application of heat. If you keep giving it a little squirt of WD followed by a few taps with the hammer, 3 or 4 times a day for about a week, that should eventually break the bond without doing damage. Somewhere within the first few days of that treatment, most frozen parts will break free. After a week of that, if I had no success, I would then try to gently heat the receiver to about 300 with a propane torch & see if it lets go. Once she's warm, get the torque to her quick. If she has a chance to cool at all or if the heat gets into the barrel, then she'll grab up tight again.

You can get temperature melt sticks from welding supply places that let you know when you reach a predetermined temperature, so that you don't go too high. You buy the stick for the particular temperature that you want to test (they're cheap). Then you use it like a crayon & just draw a line on the piece to be heated. When the line melts, you stop heating. It's that simple. If the heat trick doesn't work, then you are in for a real fight.

As some have said, it is sometimes possible to relieve the pressure on the threads by removing material from the barrel. If you have a small ring Mauser, then the bearing surface is out in the open where you can see it. In that case, turning a slot in the barrel just off the contact point should loosen things up. If you then tap the muzzle end down towards the receiver, the threads should really loosen up.

If you have a large ring Mauser, then there are two barrel contact points. One is in the same place as on the small ring, the other is the rear face of the barrel. The barrel is supposed to be machined for a perfect mating of both faces, but one usually wins out over the other & it is a krapp shoot as to which one actually carries the stress. In this case, turning a slot, like on the small ring, may or may not help at all. You would also need to then take an internal slotting tool & relieve the area near the butt end of the barrel. This is not an easy cut to make, even after sawing off the barrel short enough to get good access. That type of turning tool is also pretty fragile & unless you are a pretty good lathe guy, you can expect to break at least a few of them.

I would probably saw off the old barrel, set the receiver up in a jig on a milling machine & have at it with a boring head until I reached the minor diameter of the threads. After that, I'd peal the individual threads out with a pick.

Another option would be to use excessive heat to get them apart & then re-heat-treat later. My shop manual from Jerry K. recommends using Blanchard Metal Processing in Salt Lake City if you need to heat treat a Mauser action. He actually recommends heat treating all actions that you work with since there are reports of various quality heat treating from the factory on many Mausers.

[bruce drake]

The Coke bath after one day left my action looking like it was parkerized. Shine is definitely off the Blue and but no give at all was seen when I tried to tap the barrel off today.

One plus was that excess cosmolene was eaten by the Coke.

I'll just have to work the WD40 into the action over the next several days before I resort to doing a relief cut at the front shoulder.

Bruce

[bcp]

Inside of a large ring Mauser receiver showing the internal shoulder the barrel seats against.

http://www.mausercentral.com/RebarrelwithSafetyBreech009.jpg


Top barrel is large ring 98 Mauser military barrel showing what looks like a shoulder is actually about the same diameter as the threads. There is no pressure to relieve with a cut on this "shoulder". Sporter barrels often have a real load-bearing shoulder at the front of the receiver, but military don't.

http://www.gswagner.com/turk/turkbbls.jpg

[shotman]

I saw a trick that worked for this gunsmith. IF you dont care about the take off barrel. He took a 2lb hammer and hit the muzzle end about 3 good blows and it came right off

[Willbird]

I saw a trick that worked for this gunsmith. IF you dont care about the take off barrel. He took a 2lb hammer and hit the muzzle end about 3 good blows and it came right off

One thing about Mausers is that some are brittle, I have heard of them cracking from being dropped on a concrete floor, they break or crack right in the thumb slot that is provided for using stripper clips. I remember reading that mauser barrels were installed with a large handwheel, sort of like a sailing ships wheel with more than one pair of handles, but made from metal, and they gave it a good windup to tighten it, quite a bit of flywheel effect in other words....then add 50 years of aqueous cleaning solvents dripped into the receiver ring and it is no wonder some can be tough to get out.

Bil

[bruce drake]

BCP, thanks for the photos - Now I just need to get to working on it again.

Willbird - The Flywheel probably gave it a lot of mechanical advantage when they spun it on. I wonder what it would cost to make one of those craftsman tools now?

Shotman - Was the whack on the end (crown) of the barrel a means of sending vibrations down the barrel to loosen rust or was it along the side of the barrel?

I've hadn't had a chance to try it in about a week. I've painted a sunroom with a lot of windows, a bathroom and a kitchen this week so my time on vacation has been spent working on the house.

[shotman]

well If you use the hammer . Two things it will mess up the crown for sure, It works like hitting a bolt or nut to free it. The other thing a GOOD receiver would take any type of hit. If it cracks you dont want it anyway.

[Willbird]

BCP, thanks for the photos - Now I just need to get to working on it again.

Willbird - The Flywheel probably gave it a lot of mechanical advantage when they spun it on. I wonder what it would cost to make one of those craftsman tools now?

Shotman - Was the whack on the end (crown) of the barrel a means of sending vibrations down the barrel to loosen rust or was it along the side of the barrel?

I've hadn't had a chance to try it in about a week. I've painted a sunroom with a lot of windows, a bathroom and a kitchen this week so my time on vacation has been spent working on the house.

Well back then they believed in Apprenticeships, so it might take 6 apprentices a full year to make one with nothing but hand files :-)

[Clark]

I mounted the barrel vise on a 400 pound bench.
I have a 5 foot cheater bar on the action wrench.
I have a 20 pound piece of steel for hitting the action wrench while I sit on the end of the cheater bar.

1000 foot pounds of torque + the impact of a 20 pound hammer at the same time will not get off half of the 1903 Turk barrels that I have tried.
Hit it again and again, no movement. They are rusted solid.

Put 5 drops of Kroil in the crack and wait a minute.
It comes apart on the first hit.

All those that watch the demonstration go out an buy Kroil.

Today's Kroil job was an old rusty Rem700.
It looked like a surplus Mauser inside.
But it only needed 300 foot pounds and no hammer.

[bruce drake]

Clark,

THanks for the photo and testimonial. I guess it's sold me on Kroil. I'll call Midway on Monday and order a can.

Bruce

[BPCR Bill]

Freeze it for a few days, then apply heat with a propane torch. Don't overheat it, it's not necessary. The quick change from frozen to hot is usually enough to break the bond. When you apply heat, heat only the part that you want to expand, which would be the receiver. Heating the barrel & not the receiver would likely make the fit tighter until temperatures equalizeThis process works great, I have used it for barrels and nipples in percussion revolver cylinders and rifles.

Regards,
Bill

[Heavy lead]

I had a 788 that I need to rebarrel. Never rebarreled anything before, so I did a search and found this thread. I tried everything including Kroil soaking, heat, cold, everything, no dice. So I tried the Coke, rather than dunking the whole action though I cut the barrel off about 2" ahead of the action just enough to get a 24" pipewrench on it then submerged just the threads in it, left it in for 4 days, it popped right off, stripped the blueing off.
Now that that is done and seemingly without any damage other than the missing blueing I have a question for you real gunsmiths, one of the threads in the action about 2/3 in is missing, is this normal? Will it weeken anything when a new barrel is installed? Common sense tells me it will be fine considering the shear number of threads still undamaged. Post #33 appears to have a thread or part of a thread missing similiar to my 788.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[docone31]

I had a barrel that was a bear to remove!
I know several roofers. I get roof boots to melt for my Cap and Ball, and front stuffers.
I could not get that barrel free for anything! No way, no how. When I finally got a large enough bar to handle the torque, the reciever could not handle the pressure.
I made a form from lead! That did the trick. I could lever the barrel loose. When it finally let go, the pop was audible! More of a bang! actually.
That one was on to stay.
I helped my favourite gunsmith with his reluctant barrel. He tried everything. I just wouldn't let go. I mean everything. He bent his large lever!
He finally cut the barrel leaving only the thread part. I cut out the interior after he milled out the chamber. Being a jeweler, I have these little cutters. I cut to the threads in four spots from the muzzle cut, to the chamber entry. Four slits that just hit the top of the threads. We then dripped some muriatic acid on the exposed thread tops. After waiting for a bit, we used a reverse Easy Out he made to fit in the chamber/hole. Out it came. It took some effort, but it did come out.
He showed me a reciever that was severely bent in the mag well. He never explained that one to me, but I can imagine. The reciever was scrapped.
He told me of another technique he had used where he melted lead and floated the reciever in the lead. He ran water through the bore while the reciever was still hot. Still hard to do, but easier than most. That reciever was being sent out anyway to be hardened and case coloured. An experiment that worked, that time.
Those Mausers can be a bear.

[leftiye]

I'm about to do a vz-24, and a Siamese Mauser - to 45-70 (or 45-100), and a .35 Whelen. I'll keep this post handy (and copied). I'll try a flat sided action wrench and a barrel vise first. If the barrel vise slips, I'll put two flats on it (the barrel) and stick it in a vise and try again. Then I'll go to the more esoteric methods. Milling out a barrel shank sounds like all of the fun one could stand. It should be possible to turn the threads clear off leaving only a "helicoil" in the reciever. Or - how about turning a cylinder inside the barrel shank, and threading it - say 7/8" X14 left handed, and screwing a grade 8 bolt into it?

[Pirate69]

Having trouble with a 1910 Oberndolf Model 98 action. When you hit the muzzle with a hammer, is the action held solid against something or allowed to move? I had previously plugged the chamber and stood the barrel up so I count pool Koil on the chamber end of the barrel. Think Koil will penetrate from that direction? Barrel is toast so I drilled two 1/4 inch holes to keep barrel from turning in the vise. Well, I have not found a bolt that will not bend as it continues to turn in the tighten vise. A tough one.

[frankenfab]

Having trouble with a 1910 Oberndolf Model 98 action. When you hit the muzzle with a hammer, is the action held solid against something or allowed to move? I had previously plugged the chamber and stood the barrel up so I count pool Koil on the chamber end of the barrel. Think Koil will penetrate from that direction? Barrel is toast so I drilled two 1/4 inch holes to keep barrel from turning in the vise. Well, I have not found a bolt that will not bend as it continues to turn in the tighten vise. A tough one.

Hopefully you have a flat bottom action wrench (mandatory). You can take the handle off the action wrench, and put it in a vise, or weld a thick bar to it with holes so you can bolt or clamp it to a sturdy bench. Then use a pipe wrench on the barrel with a blow from a deadblow hammer to add vibration. The Kroil will indeed penetrate from the breech end. I have yet to get an original Mauser barrel off without the pipe wrench, but I don't have a hydraulic press to put my barrel vise in.

[nekshot]

bruce, one of my vz24's was stuck fast like yours. I did everything mentioned here over a six month period and only had about a 6 inch stub left for a barrel. I heard of hitting it and I really did not hit that hard but it popped when I tried to turn it and off it came. Some of the threads actually tore off from rust.

[Pirate69]

I am trying to use a Beuhlar action wrench that I bought in the 70"s. It going up between the rqails and locks in the bolt recesses. Any concern with this type of wrench?

Which is the best option? A Wheeler Action Wrench or the one being sold by Numrich?

[Goatwhiskers]

Pirate, any wrench that goes between the rails stands a chance of warping the frame. You need the kind that has a flat surface bearing against the bottom of the receiver ring. Goat

[waksupi]

Pirate, any wrench that goes between the rails stands a chance of warping the frame. You need the kind that has a flat surface bearing against the bottom of the receiver ring. Goat

Yep. I broke a pre-64 Winchester M70 action trying that, with a stubborn barrel.

[Reg]

You have to be careful with those action wrenches, both in the rail type and over the extension type. Both will twist or crush the action itself if too much pressure is applied. Best NEVER to pound on the handle of any action wrench with a hammer, this can really mess up a action.
Most Mauser barrels are not tightly fitted like the 14 and 17 Enfields. They do lock up on the inner ring and when tightly fitted between the inner and outer ring they can be tough to remove, especially if the get rust in them as is quite commonly found.
I have never found it to fail, put the action on a truing arbor, support the end of the barrel with a live center or even use a steady rest and with a grooving tool ( any width ) cut a groove in the barrel as close to the front of the ring as you dare and deeper than the minor diameter of the thread. This will releave that pressure and generally ( unless rust is involved ) the barrel will unscrew with little pressure.

:coffeecom

[flounderman]

use a large heavy hammer on the action wrench handle, or put a pipe on it and use the hammer. the shock from the hammer blow will loosen the barrel and won't do the damage leaning on a pipe over the action wrench handle will. tighten your barrel vise, tighten the action wrench and whack the handle and it will come. I have seen relief cuts on remington barrels where they relieved the shoulder against the receiver

[Char-Gar]

Here is what has been done for generations to remove stuck barrels. It can be done in a lathe, by making some mandrels and so forth, but it can be done a lot easier with a plain old hacksaw. The barrel will be toast, if that is OK with you.

Take your hack saw and cut a groove a blade's width in front of the receiver. Turn the receiver and continue until you have cut one 360 degrees about 1/2 the highth of the blade deep. This will allow the metal to bring back away from the receiver and it will spin off with ease when you use your vise and wrench.

All it takes is 10 or 15 minutes and a little "elbow grease".

[Reg]

Char-Gar is correct, I just use a lathe because it's handy and I am lazy. Another trick is if it dosn't break loose with normal pressure then actually try to tighten the barrel. Sometimes a barrel that is badly rusted will require a bit of back and forth movement to get things working. A good panther pee can also help. What ever you do, do not get to banging and clanging on things. Those receivers, especially Mausers, are softer than you think and it dosn't take much to wreck one.

:drinks:

[KCSO]

No, No NOT a pipe wrench!!! Use a real barrel vise, they are not that spendy. Yo can mkae an action wrench from 1 1/2" square stock and you will need a cheater bar about 2 foot long. Put the barrel in the vise and coat it well with rosin and clampp it down real tight in the blocks. I got Oak blocks with one of my vises but later cast up a set of aluminum blocks and they work better. The barrel will pop out sooner or later. If you need a barrel vise i have an old Wheeler that I don't use any more.

[Pirate69]

The Beuhlar wrench does not put any pressure on the rails. All the pressure is on the locking lug recesses. However, you guys have made a believer out of me. I will be looking for a flat bottom action wrench.

KCSO, I sent you a PM.

[plainsman456]

If you do not have any rosin,you can use powdered sugar.
I use a pipe wrench and vise with a action wrench.
When set up against the bench the wrench will keep the barrel from turning,then use a 2 lb shop hammer to jar the action wrench,if it will not give with armstrong pressure applied.
I have never had to heat one up yet and some barrels can have the marks cleaned up and re used for a project later.

[nanuk]

I had to remove a steel bar from a sleeved frame

I got a black can about 1ft deep, filled it 50/50 with Diesel fuel and acetone, and put the end in and let it heat in the sun, with a plastic bag covering to help keep the acetone in it

the other side wouldn't budge after the D/A treatment, so on the 30ton press it went....

I mushroomed the end about 15% getting it out, but I am now a believer in the power of Diesel and acetone for rust penetrant

[Larry Gibson]

If you do not have any rosin,you can use powdered sugar.
I use a pipe wrench and vise with a action wrench.
When set up against the bench the wrench will keep the barrel from turning,then use a 2 lb shop hammer to jar the action wrench,if it will not give with armstrong pressure applied.
I have never had to heat one up yet and some barrels can have the marks cleaned up and re used for a project later.

+1

I've had several such barrel that could not be removed via a barrel vise over the years. A good and proper fitting action wrench holding the action in a large vice. A large pipe wrench is then put on up close to the front of the action and a 4' pipe is slipped over the handle as a cheater bar. Have had to put all my weight on it a couple times and the "crack" when it breaks loose sounds like a gunshot. I think I've done 4 that way and have not ruined or damaged an action.

Larry Gibson

[KCSO]

Some are that way, especially square threads like the old 1917's. I have had some that wouldn't pop loos even with me jumping on a 3 foot cheater bar. If a good soak in Kroil and a cheater isn't doing it then you may need to put the thng in a lathe and turn off the shoulder. If you are using the Wheeler you might need to go to aluminum blocks instead of their Oak. The aluminum blocks rosined up seem to hold a lot better. I make mine from scrap stock.

[Char-Gar]

Some are that way, especially square threads like the old 1917's. I have had some that wouldn't pop loos even with me jumping on a 3 foot cheater bar. If a good soak in Kroil and a cheater isn't doing it then you may need to put the thng in a lathe and turn off the shoulder. If you are using the Wheeler you might need to go to aluminum blocks instead of their Oak. The aluminum blocks rosined up seem to hold a lot better. I make mine from scrap stock.

Ahem... My post about cutting a groove in the barrel just forward of the receiver with a hacksaw, accomplishes the same thing a turning the shoulder off with a lathe, plus it is quicker that setting up the lathe. Plus, lots of folks with stuck barrels don't have a lathe or one long enough to chuck up a barreled action.

[M-Tecs]

Cutting a grove doesn't work as well on Mausers. The contact should be on the inner race and not on the barrel shoulder. It won't hurt but it might not help.

[David2011]

In our gunsmithing class we used a Brownell's barrel vise clamped down hard with the correct size bushings and the Brownell's action wrench which had a Vee cut into the handle side and a flat bar on the removeable side, to go against the bottom of the action. The large flat area provided enough support that the bolts didn't have to be "farm-tight" on the action wrench; just "guten-tight." The barrel vise had been drilled out and rethreaded to take 4 5/8" bolts instead of the factory 1/2" bolts. The 1/2" bolts finally stripped out from tightening enhough for Mausers. We used a cheater bar on the barrel vise Allen screws to get them as farm-tight as we could. Usually a whack or two with a piece of 2" x 2' bar stock would break the action free. The bushings were made to fit the Mauser barrels and the action wrench would not slip on us because of the large flat area. Kroil never hurt, either. We never failed to succeed, but then we didn't have your particular rifle. The action wrench handle had been welded back on a couple off times over the years. . .

David

[Fishoot]

I have had great success with Kroil soaking. I put a puddle of Kroil in the extractor notch with the action tilted at 45 degrees, let it sit overnight then rotate and let the kroil migrate to the other side. I have had to turn a relief groove in front of the receiver on Mosins but not for Mausers...so far. I use a home made H-frame barrel vise with a 12 ton hydraulic press with 3/4" plywood and rosin to contact top and bottom of the barrel. When the press is pumped you hear the wood fibers cracking and it pinches nearly 360 degrees. One Turkish Mauser was tough. To remove it, I ground flats on the top and bottom of the barrel (sewer bore) with an angle grinder to make shoulders on top and bottom of the barrel. Then instead of plywood, I used steel 1/2" thick squares to pinch the barrel. That makes provides much more anti-twist mechanical advantage when you need it and don't care about the barrel.

[flydoc]

One old trick for hard to remove barrels that seem to slip in the oak or even aluminum clamps is to take heavy brown paper ( old grocery bags) and saturate with accraglas or other epoxy and wrap the barrel where the clamps will be set. One layer will do. Let cure overnight before clamping . The glue and paper can be later removed with heat . Got to degrease that part of the barrel of course.

[Pirate69]

Well, this has been a learning experience and it turned-out to be a good one. Based on all the advice given, I got the job done without destroying anything. I found a 1" X 1" bar that is 36" long and drilled it to accept a 1.75" u-bolt. Covered the bolt in tygon tubing and installing it in the rod. I made a good flat bottom action wrench. The barreled action had been soaking in Koil for about 2 month. Locked the barrel down so it would not turn and put some pressure on it. It would not move. Again put pressure on the bar and gave it a good whack with a 2 lb hammer. Pulled down on the bar again and it moved. After one complete turn, I could unscrew the action with very little effort.

I had been soiling the barrel thread from the chamber side and I noted the the Kroil Oil had penetrated all the way up the threads when I got it off. Kroil Oil worked well. Action threads look perfect.[smilie=w:

Thanks to all again for the the advice and coaching.

[MtGun44]

Next try Auto Tranny Fluid (ATF) & acetone mix, out penetrates everything in testing, lower removal torque of
any penetrating oil tested.

Bill

[frankenfab]

No, No NOT a pipe wrench!!! Use a real barrel vise, they are not that spendy.

Well, he already said he drilled a hole throught the barrel. Don't see as it matters much now if the outside gets messed up.....:wink:

[John Boy]

* Clamp the barrel in a barrel vice
* Where the barrel joins the receiver, make a wick wrapping cotton string around the barrel
* Make a mixture of 50:50 - acetone: ATF or Marvel's Mystery Oil - shake well. The mixture only needs 68 ft lbs to break a rusted bolt loose - measured with a torque wrench
* Soak the string with the mixture and keep it wet for a day or so ... the mix will creep into the threads
* Lock your padded wrench on the receiver and see if it breaks loose
* If it doesn't, fill a 5 gallon pail with metal or lead
* Tie the the pail to the receiver and let it hang down so there is pressure exerted.
* Again keeping the string wet
I've remove several old single shot barrels using this method with success

[nanuk]

Next try Auto Tranny Fluid (ATF) & acetone mix, out penetrates everything in testing, lower removal torque of
any penetrating oil tested.

Bill

ATF has similar characteristics as Diesel albeit a little thicker

I'll have to try this, as it should stink less

[MtGun44]

Actually, ATF has very little in common with diesel fuel. ATF has a lot of special
properties, corrosion protection, extreme pressure lubrication, anti-foaming, detergents
to keep dirt and wear particles in suspension, etc.. Diesel is primarily blended to have
high energy and an adequate cetane rating so that it will ignite well under pressure.

Bill

[nanuk]

Bill, by similar, I mean it will run an engine, clean out rust, lubricate without attracting to much dust
and they both work well as carb cleaner additive in a gas engine. I think both have detergents added.


I think the differences are what is added after cracking... I wonder how far apart they are on the scale of oils?

[MtGun44]

Run an engine on ATF? I suppose . . . . . but I don't think for long.

IMO one is a fuel - much looser limits, ATF is a lubricant, coolant, anticorrosion and
shear stable hydraulic fluid that has to be heat stable for a decade or more under high
loads, etc. Don't think diesel is much controlled except overall cetane rating and minimal
lubricity for the injectors and/or pump. Maybe I'm off on this.

My view is ATF is "fancy stuff, high tech, long lasting" and diesel fuel is "dumb old fuel,
used up in a minute" - maybe I underestimate diesel.

Bill

[nanuk]

Bill, I don't mean they are the same stuff, or even nearly so

what I mean is that one can sub for another in certain circumstances.

around here, Diesel is a common rust breaker, as it is cheap and everyone has some. I dunno about yours, but ours is clean with detergents. it makes a great carb cleaner on gas engines.
Pour it on a sickle mower knife at the start of the year... cleans up the rust and doesn't attract dirt.


for penetrant, Diesel and acetone is good. I have also heard of ATF/acetone/kerosene for penetrant.

similar characteristics to mean is like comparing mineral spirits to Methyl... both are good degreasers. both will kill you if you drink too much of them. both work in a pinch in a zippo


now that I am interested, I will see if our local fuel expert can tell me how close they are on the oil tree.

ADDED: as for fuel, on the alternative fuel sites, there is often mention of running the older style diesel engines on straight ATF, or a blend. Same as with Veggie oil.

[MtGun44]

As long as it works for your application . . . . then it is perfect. :bigsmyl2:


Bill

[Doc1]

Couple o' things here and I'd like member input: First, I have a K98 barrel removal and replacement project at hand. I've never done this before. I do have a barrel vice, but no action wrench. I also have a 10"x36" Atlas lathe if it comes down to it. But I also have a large, bench-mounted pipe vise and that's what has my mental gears turning (clang, clang...gnash, strip). No, I don't intend to stick my bare action in the pipe vise, but I think I may have come up with a way to use it. Ya'll bear with me and let me know if you think this'll work. I've got an idea for a universal action-holding fixture that should work with any action:

First, I'll get a piece of 3 or 4 inch square steel box beam around 8 to 12 inches long. Then I'll weld a square bottom onto it so that I've basically got a small square bucket that an action will fit in. There are a variety of low temperature alloys, such as Cerrosafe, that melt at around the boiling point of water. I happen to have several pounds of this alloy. I'm thinking I can put my K98 action in the little bucket and fill it to barrel level with the (melted) low temp alloy. When it cools and solidifies I can chuck it in the large pipe vise and then remove the barrel. The now-solid alloy should provide support over the entire action instead of just a few points and offer no chance for warping or crushing. Additionally, this approach would work with any action in the future. To remove the action, you would just gently heat the little bucket to a couple of hundred degrees fahrenheit. This should be well below the temperature required to cause any harm to the metal.

Do you guys see any reason why this wouldn't work, or see any downside risk to it?

OK. Next question: I'm replacing a bad, stock K98 barrel with a good used example. What do I do if the sights on the new barrel don't line up correctly with the action? Do I just heat the sights so the solder melts, loosen the screws and turn them or what?

Thanks for any input.

Best regards
Doc

[seaboltm]

The big pie wrench works quite well as does a large vise with teeth. Best is to chuck it up in a lathe and turn the shoulder off (or make s stright in cut) where it butts aganst the reciever. This relieves the pressure and the barrel will turn right off.

Yep. If I have a junk barrel on a mauser, an action wrench and an 18" pipe wrench comes out. It has never failed. Ruins the barrel though. Also, I have used epoxy on the wooden blocks and then tighten up. Wait overnight. This will sometimes do the trick. Wood can be shattered off the barrel, wood shards and epoxy can be cleaned up with a wire wheel.

[bruce drake]

When I installed a new 8mm Mauser barrel on a Yugo 24/47 model a few years back I removed the rear sights base screw and then heated the base of the rear and front sights with a propane torch until the Silver Solder started loosing its grip. At that point I used a 5lb lead hammer to tap the sights level and parallel with each other.

Once I removed the heat it started cooling and set it into itself.

Bruce

[Blue2]

I have been doing this awhile myself. Even though a large ring Mauser seats up against an internal ring there is often a secondary seal that takes place up against the front of the receiver. In these instances cutting a relief up to the front receiver can allow penetrating oil to get into the threads and help break up a corrosion bond.
I am referring to those of us that are fortunite enough to have a lath to work with. After the barrel is removed I would always put a tight fitting mandrel up though the action,set the mandrel/action between centers and true the front of the receiver to the bore of the action.When you get to fitting a new barrel---measure to the inner receiver ring and finish the barrel with an extra 1.5 th.to the new barrel shoulder. The barrel will touch up on the inner ring and then when it is torqued to a final fit it will also align up and finish its fitting to the front action face on the receiver. This gives good straight allignment.
For reluctant barrels of all types I like to squirt Kroil into the receiver up against the shank of the barrel. I then let it soak for a couple of hours. I then apply heat to the outside of the receiver sufficient to start to make the Kroil start to bubble on the inside of the action/receiver barrel joint.I then let it cool down some and usually it is ready for an easy or at least standard removal. Another trick that can help some times. ( I use wooded blocks in my barrel vice. Held in a hydralic press) If the rosen is still slipping and I am not concerned about the barrel I will put pieces of metal sanding screening such as is used on sanding pads for sanding drywall and clamp down. This abrasive surface will often provide enough grip and not slip on the barrel.

[bruce drake]

thanks for the idea regarding the metal mesh. I'll try that on an Enfield #4 I'm currently dealing with regarding removing its barrel and replacing it with a 303 Pygmy barrel from New Zealand.

[egg250]

This is an old thread, I thought I'd add a bit to it. I have a Yugo 24/47 project in progress. In removing the barrel I found out a few things. When a barrel has been in one spot for 50+ years, it wants to stay there. More importantly, the proofing load used to proof the barreled actions were so strong they often ovaled the barrel threads in the receiver. My barrel removal process was:

- cut the barrel off 2 inches or so in front of the receiver
- indicate the receiver in a 4-jaw chuck on a lathe, bore the chamber out, leaving enough metal to prevent the threads from breaking off in the receiver
- put a pipe wrench on the barrel stub and wedge against the lathe bed, use an adjustable wrench to turn the lathe chuck to turn the barrel stub out of the receiver

This worked well and there was minimal damage to the threads in the receiver.

[Fishoot]

I have used an angle grinder to grind flats on opposing sides of the barrel on the thickest part of the barrel in front of the receiver. The flats provide a mechanical shoulder for the vise and the grinding heats the junction between barrel and action. No rosin required and no barrel blocks are needed. It has worked on several bad barrels.

[Clark]

I have pulled the barrel on over 100 rifles, mostly military. The combination of 500 foot pounds of torque, Kroil, and a sledge hammer always gets the flat bottomed receivers.

But the round Rem 700 receivers when gripped with something like a barrels vise [in addition to the barrel vise on the barrel] can cause the receiver to clamp down on the barrel threads. This and the glue that the Remington factory puts on the threads can make it hard.


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