History of cast in the 30-30.

[Bazoo]

I'm interested in the early years of cast in the 30 WCF, specifically which bullets were used. Which were designed specifically for it, and which were merely adapted for it.

I'm also interested in knowing if early on, they used full power jacketed velocities with rifle powders, or if they only used reduced velocity pistol loads like what is listed in the mid century lyman manuals.

Does anyone have this info or know where I can find it? Thanks.

Bazoo

[Winger Ed.]

I've always been curious about that too.

I did a search on 'history of the .30-30'. A bunch of info came up.
I was surprised to see it was never offered with a solid Lead bullet.

It came out with one of the new, fancy, "Metal Patched" bullets.

[Larry Gibson]

If I recall correctly, wasn't the original PB'd 308291 originally designed and made by Barlow for the 30-30?

[Randy Bohannon]

No need to play with the 30-30 and cast when the 32 Special is specifically a cast bullet cartridge and barrel. Shallow rifling ,1:16 ROT is superior to deep cut rifling and a fast twist 1:10 for cast boolits.30-30 is the superior jacketed boolit shooter.

[stubshaft]

I've always been curious about that too.

I did a search on 'history of the .30-30'. A bunch of info came up.
I was surprised to see it was never offered with a solid Lead bullet.

It came out with one of the new, fancy, "Metal Patched" bullets.

IIRC - It was also the first cartridge designed to shoot smokeless powder.

[Thumbcocker]

If I recall correctly, wasn't the original PB'd 308291 originally designed and made by Barlow for the 30-30?

This is what I have read.

[Thumbcocker]

I've always been curious about that too.

I did a search on 'history of the .30-30'. A bunch of info came up.
I was surprised to see it was never offered with a solid Lead bullet.

It came out with one of the new, fancy, "Metal Patched" bullets.

I thought there was a "small game load" offerd with boolits but I'm not sure.

[Forrest r]

This is in the gas check section of this website.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?4583-The-Gas-Check-100-years-old-in-2006

[Thumbcocker]

We have a member with the handle .30 WCF who knows a lot about this stuff.

[jrmartin1964]

If I recall correctly, wasn't the original PB'd 308291 originally designed and made by Barlow for the 30-30?

No.308291 was introduced in Ideal Handbook No.17 (1906) as the new "standard" design for .30 Winchester (.30-30) and .303 Savage. Along with No.308284, No.308290, No.319295, and No.375296, it was one of the very first five gas check designs.

In that same Ideal handbook, the proper charge was 22 to 23 grains of Laflin & Rand "Lightning". This load was tested by Marlin and Savage, and both "pronounce it equal to the high power ammunition when sights are set at the same elevation."

Prior to 1906:
No.3084, round-nose plain-base, available in multiple weights, from 130 to 211 grains. Perfection moulds were available, adjustable between all weights, and having a slightly flat nose due to being cut with the nose toward the sprue plate.. Moulds for a single weight were fully round-nose, the cavities being cut with the base toward the sprue plate. The 152-grain weight of the single mould was considered " standard" for the .30-30.

No.3082, round-nose plain base, available in weights from 130 to 211 grains, was another choice for .30-30. Ideal handbooks stated that loading chambers "correct for the metal patched bullet .30-30 Winchester will also seat these bullets."

Suitable loads with these last numbers, at around 150 grains +/-, would have been 10 grains of Laflin & Rand "Marksman" or 7 grains of Laflin & Rand "Sharpshooter". It was recommended that an alloy not softer than 10-1 be used.

Jim

[Bazoo]

I appreciate all the replies. The link to the gas check thread was might interesting as well.

Thanks Jim, that's great info.

[bedbugbilly]

Bazoo - Take a look at these two links - interesting reading - may not be exactly what you are looking for but gives good history and background of the 30-30/30 WCF

https://leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-shooting-and-hunting/30-w-c-f-short-range-cartridges-1896-1924-and-their-replications/