30 carbine and hunting deer?

[444ttd]

my late grandfather gave his m1 30 carbine to my dad. we shot it using factory fmj loads and then we stripped it cleaned it, put it back together and put it into his safe. he has a PA disability permit that the game commission gave him. so using a semi is fine( using a semi is a no-no according to PAGC laws, but PAGC disability permits says he can).

anyway, he wants to kill a deer with the 30 carbine. he believes a 50-60 yards is possible, but 20-40 yards is more probable. he likes behind the shoulder shots. he doesn't like(or hates) the neck shots. oh, he won't use a premium bullet(copper) but he's ok with the cup and core or the lead boolits.

now, i know next to nothing about this caliber except what i've learned from WW2 vets. it goes from a very bad cartridge to a good enuff cartridge, take your pick. and i know.....its his cartridge and he is going to do what he is going to do.

so what bullet/boolit should he use?

[Thumbcocker]

FWIW Illinois allows .30 carbine pistols for deer hunting. Obviously no fmj projectiles.

[popper]

Close range is doable, it was a 50 yd personal gun. Back in the 50's when carbine was popular and cheap, lots of use for hunting. Biggest problem I heard of was the mag falling out.

[WinchesterM1]

I talked to a Korean War vet who was in a mortar squad, I asked him about the rumors of a 30 carbine not penetrating a Chinese winter coat. He looked at me in the eyes and said... I call tell you about 8-9 Chinese who doesn’t believe that....

I have used 30 carbine for deer using Remington SP and also my own cast bullet, the lee 309-115fn(soup can) and also the NOE 310-130rn I use 2400 powder with a GC pc bullet and out to 75 yards I had no problems.... I hit behind the shoulder and they ran maybe 20-30 yards. But I don’t use my M1 Carbines....
278547278548278549

[ShooterAZ]

You're probably going to get a lot of nay-sayers on the 30 Carbine for deer. My take on it is that will be plenty effective out to 50 yds. or maybe a little further. Cup and core soft point should expand pretty well inside of that range. I used to buy the bulk Remington 115 soft points from Midway, and took a lot of coyotes with those. Lately I've been using the RCBS 30-115-SP boolit, cast from WW + tin and hollow pointed with the Forster tool. With proper shot placement he should easily be able to put venison on the table with the 30M1.

[Mmacro]

Can a M1 Carbine be used to take a deer?

IMHO, yes with the following conditions:
1. shooter is accurate - as in expert marksman that 10/10 hits the bullseye with that specific rifle
2. it’s a small deer
3. it’s the only firearm the shooter has access to

I would say if this is more of a question of should a person use a specific firearm for nostalgic reasons... then no, the M1 should be reserved for plinking and range shoots. There are better choices out there. For example, a quick check of my reloading manuals to compare the .30 Carbine to AR15 in 300 ACC:

The M1 averages:
100 and 110 gr JSP/JRN at 1,800 FPS
115 and 130 gr lead bullets at 1,500 FPS

Compared to a AR15 in 300 ACC...
110 gr V-Max at 2,200 FPS
155 gr HP at 1,800 FPS
160 gr cast lead at 1,300 FPS
180 gr cast left at 1,100 FPS

[Winger Ed.]

From talking to folks down there, and from walking around in the woods, and seeing the short ranges they had to work with---
Back in the 50s-60's or so, you could easily believe the M1 Carbine, or a .30-30 were the only guns used for deer hunting in Louisiana.

[white eagle]

you can kill a deer with a 22 rim fire
don't mean you should use it
for me thats where I lump the 30 carbine
your Dad won't take advise against using it then use it anyway
that is on him sorry to say

[Larry Gibson]

444ttd

Not able to post much til tonight or tomorrow. I've killed 7 black tail deer with the M1 carbine and numerous 2 legged DG in the late SE Asian war games. The 30 carbine with 110 SP/HPs and 100 gr HJs did just fine out to 150 +/- yards. Accuracy is, of course, paramount. Velocity was 1925 - 1980 fps.

[shooterg]

When my nephew was a tad , the carbine was just the right size for him, turned him loose with a 5 round mag with 3 110 softpoints(never could get the little magazine to run fully loaded . In a stand from 50 yards and less, the dead deer did not know the difference between that and a .30-06 !!

[John McCorkle]

444ttd

Not able to post much til tonight or tomorrow. I've killed 7 black tail deer with the M1 carbine and numerous 2 legged DG in the late SE Asian war games. The 30 carbine with 110 SP/HPs and 100 gr HJs did just fine out to 150 +/- yards. Accuracy is, of course, paramount. Velocity was 1925 - 1980 fps.Larry, I'd pay a pretty penny to buy you breakfast and coffee and just hear your stories....

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Der Gebirgsjager]

When I was a teenager I knew an elderly rancher in his late 70s who got his deer every year with an M1 carbine and FMJ ammo. His hands were pretty well crippled up with arthritis, so he liked the semi-auto feature over having to work a bolt or lever. I imagine the SP ammo would do just fine at reasonable ranges. For myself, though, I'd prefer a .30-30.

DG

[Mmacro]

Exactly... there is a video of an avid hog hunter killing a boar with a .177 air rifle. He shot the boar in the ear hole, scrambling the pig’s central nervous system, which dropped the pig where it stood.

Can the M1 Carbine cleanly kill a deer? Absolutely, given the right set of circumstances.

Is the M1 Carbine a recommended deer rifle? Not any more than a .177 air rifle is recommended to hunt boar with.


you can kill a deer with a 22 rim fire
don't mean you should use it
for me thats where I lump the 30 carbine
your Dad won't take advise against using it then use it anyway
that is on him sorry to say

[ubetcha]

If you successfully take deer with a 357mag then say not a 30 M1. Deer are not bullet proof. Put the right bullet in the right spot.

[Rcmaveric]

Larry, I'd pay a pretty penny to buy you breakfast and coffee and just hear your stories....

Sent from my moto g(7) power using TapatalkSame. I love sea stories. Passes the times while deployed and at work.

Anyways. Back to topic. If a 9mm Luger or 357 Mag is good enough to cleanly and ethically harvest a deer I see no problem with a 30 carbine.

You can get much deader than dead. Knock down power is only important on bears and T-Rex. Not so important on deer. I do like them to bleed. Makes them easier to find. Almost missed a couple that were bang flops. I walked passed one four times before I finnaly found her. I only found her because she was still breathing and the grass was moving ever so slightly.

In Florida we can use soft point 223. Seen alot of nice clean kills on both deer and Hog with them. Seen a lot of nasty kills and bad shots with .243 and 308 Win also. It matters more where you hit them. As long as he hits the heart they won't go far.

I would use a cast bullet of COWW and air cooled so it doesn't explode if I hit a ribs or bone.

I also go for behind the shoulder shots.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[rintinglen]

The only limitation I would recommend is the same as I do for any other cartridge. Does the shooter have the ability to put the (soft point) bullets into a 4 inch group at the distance he expects to shoot the game. If he's good enough to that with his gun at 50 yards, them by all means go for it. The last venison I ate was taken with a 4 inch 357 and a 140 grain jhp at 37 steps. I don't think the 110 grain Bullet at half again the velocity will do any less.

[lar45]

I took a small ish Mule deer buck with a 357 mag revolver. I was just heading to the woods to check the function of the hammer and trigger that I had to work on. The only ammo I had on hand was a box of Win 110gn JHPs.
He was 85 yards away and I put the little bullet just behind the shoulder, it took out both lungs and hit the top of the heart. It ran about 40 yds. The bullet was recovered from the offside shoulder and still weighed 110gns.
So my thought would be to get good soft points and shoot a few water jugs. Then collect the bullets and see how they held up.
You might try some boolits cast from half WW half lead.
Good luck on your project. Be sure to take pics and share them here

[Jeff Michel]

At 1800 FPS and a 110 soft point, a deer doesn't stand a chance at 100 yards. Four times to date. Hope your Dad has a good time hunting.

[Mk42gunner]

In my personal experience, white tail deer are not all that hard to kill. As long as you hit them right the first time. Hit them wrong and get the adrenaline up, and it can be a different story.

Same with a coyote.

An open shot at less than 100 yards? I think it will work fine. Brush in the way? Wait for it to step into a clear spot.

Robert

[PositiveCaster]

When the .30 Herrett came out in ~1974 for the T/C Contender as a handgun hunting round, most (including the designers) used the Speer 110 RN. At 2000-2300 fps MV that bullet performed quite well (I shot several Kodiak Island blacktails to prove it) - that’s just a bit above .30 Carbine rifle velocity. And while not the “best” deer cartridge, with decent shot placement it will kill well. With poor shot placement even a .30-06 kills poorly.



.

[Drm50]

I killed a deer with a M1 carbine. Not my choice but I was in social corner. I was guest at a deer camp in WVa mountains. I was hunting with a Remington 141, 35cal. Host had nice 30carbine and wanted to switch rifles for the day. So I did and shot a fork buck at about 40yds with Win JSP. It ran about 15yds into a tree and end of the story. There is better deer cartridges but I would say 50yds would be my limit on deer. Guys make my butt tired. One bunch needs a 45/70 or 300mag, the others praising a 223. To tell you the truth if you are hunting from a stand you can use a 22rf. But if you are jump shooting deer they are no good. 30carbine will do just fine for dad as long as he can put them in kill zone.

[richhodg66]

My wife's grandfather used an M1 Carbine as his primary deer rifle for years and killed a lot of them with it. He carried one in WWII and liked it. About the time she and I started dating, he killed a huge buck with it, I have the rack hanging up. That would have been a big deer even in the midwest, absolute monster for sand country S.C.
I wouldn't even consider "premium" copper bullets, standard cup and core would be a lot better. Make sure to get close, put the bullet in the lungs and collect your venison.

[45-70 Chevroner]

My only experience with the 30 carbine and deer was back in about 1970 something. I shot a mule deer doe she probably weighed 120 # one shot behind the front leg the soft nose ended up in the heart she fell down right their. A 40 yard shot but she was still alive and kicking when I walked up on her one more shot in the head. Yes it can be done with proper placement. That was the only rifle I had to hunt with that year, so thought I would give it a try, would I do it again probably not unless it was the only gun I had. I think I payed $65.00 for back then. Wish I still had it.

[TCLouis]

A friend took her deer every year with her scoped 30 carbine.
That had to be bucks in those days , but not as big as the PA deer.
Of course that is the only gun she had, but it worked every time.
I shot it a couple of times and it was a very accurate carbine.

funny what will and will not suffice in our minds/opinions for deer hunting.

[Texas by God]

I've killed close range deer with a .54 black powder pistol ( maybe 500 fps), a 4-5/8" .357( 1100fps)and a mercy kill( deer hung in fence with broken back leg) with a .17HMR. All DRT because of bullet placement. I would absolutely hunt deer from a stand with our .30 Carbine with my 110 JSP reloads. 100 yards or less for my eyes with iron sights.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Wheelgun]

I know of lots and lots of deer killed in the “early days” around here with 32/20, so 30carbine will work fine.
Dad has the rack of a muley killed by Great Grandpa, with a 32/20 in Wyoming.

I use an Arsenal mold 311008 clone that drops 125gr to take some big wild sows last fall, couple at 50 and one 80 paces.

[uscra112]

Rightly or wrongly, there's some states that don't consider it energetic enough for deer. Michigan was one as I recall.

[missionary5155]

We still have our first Carbine. If it was all I had I would hunt with it.... But be on the prowl for a M1 Garand to "swap it for".
Now put a 130 grain cast in it and it would be alot better for under 50 yard shots.

[rondog]

Cor-Bon DPX, made for deer hunting and defense. Barnes #30800 bullets.

278577

[dale2242]

If your Dad is going to use the 30 carbine, you said he was, use 110 gr jacketed SPs or HPs at 50 yds or less.
I would stay away from cast bullets for deer.

[Lloyd Smale]

it will kill fine at those ranges. Keep in mind its more powerful then a 3220 and in the 50s that was considered a fine short range deer gun. The first 6 deer i shot were with a m1 carbine. I used soft nose factory rem ammo. I bought it for 30 bucks at my dads buddys bar. That buddy was a ww2 vet who hunted his whole life with his m1 carbine and between legal and illegal deer shot no doubt more then a 100 deer with his. He was cheaper then me. He would take military ball and cut the tip of the nose off and drill them with a jig he made into hps. Did it help. I dont have a clue but i ate many lbs of venison at camp he shot. Were not talking grizzly bear here. A average whitetail weights about the same as a lab retriever and has bones not heavier. Keep the range to 50 yards or less and youll do fine. Fact is its more powerful then a 357 revolver and many deer have been killed by them. by the way old Bob didnt hunt with his M1 because its all he had. Every year he had is semi auto rem 06 and his ruger 44 mag carbine on the gun rack at camp but i never saw him use them even once.

[GhostHawk]

A IMO you should listen to rcmaverick.

B Bullet placement is king.

C I would use the heaviest bullet you can get good accuracy with.

D 1600 fps for an under 100 yard shot would not deter me at all.

E I had a stretch in my youth where money was tight, food was short.
I have killed more than one deer with .22lr. Again, bullet placement is key. Also target choice. Don't take the biggest farthest 8 point buck. Pop that little forkhorn who is close, young, and dumb. Standing stock still with a "hey what's that bright light look in his eye"

F I have very little regret for those deer I jacked. Meat got shared to 2 or 3 other family's with kids. Everyone ate good. We wasted nothing. We lost no deer that we shot at. Deer were plentiful.

G My little excursion into the wild side ended when this "friend" begged, pleaded, demanded for his chance.
He shot the jaw off a nice doe. That deer was never recovered or found. And that was the end of it for me.

I am responsible for what I do. But I won't be associated with that.

.30 carbine with the right load, enough practice would work fine within limits. Tis the shooters job to understand those limits.

[dverna]

I would not hunt deer with an M1 carbine as my ranges are longer, but I see the attraction. What a handy, light, easy to carry rifle!!! Accuracy is not great, but at 50 yards it is more than adequate and no need for a scope. Sure beats using a .357Mag pistol.

Hope your dad has fun...but talk him into getting some good bullets.

[444ttd]

thanks guys!!!!! hopefully this shortage will straighten out and i'll buy the dies(which nobody has). keep'em coming, i like the stories!!!!!!

[Cargo]

It'll do the job if you do yours. I've known several folks that successfully used the old warbaby for hogs and deer alike.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, I'd pay a pretty penny to buy you breakfast and coffee and just hear your stories....

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Never know when our paths may cross. I'm always open to relating my "stories" though, around a campfire after a couple three "sundowners' they do get better, as best I recall........

[Larry Gibson]

Just checked my old data/note sheets and the best 'deer" load was the Speer 110 HP or the Remington 110 RNSP over 15 gr H110 for 1925 fps. The 110 HP will not always feed in some M1 Carbines as the soft lead hangs up on the sides of the feed ramp as the bullet nose comes out of the magazine. I widened the offending area and polished it so that bullet feeds 100% in my "shooter" M1 carbine. I think shot 3 or 4 of the deer with that bullet, all one shot kills with very satisfactory performance. The 100 RNSPs of Speer, Sierra Hornady and Winchester all fed reliably. Winchester and Remington RNSP factory loads both ran 19 40 - 1960 fps out of my M1 Carbines.

The Hornady 100 gr HJ is also an excellent deer killer and I load it over 15.5 gr H110 for 1980 fps.

While I have not hunted deer with cast in the 30 Carbine I have put several injured deer down plus an injured elk when I was a LEO in NE Oregon. The 105 gr Lyman 313631 (SWC GC mould made for the 32 H&R cast of COWW, sized .309, with Hornady GC) over 14.5 gr H110 runs the same 1980 fps and performed very well. It also does very well on called in coyote. Were I to hunt deer again up in the Willamette vally of oregon again where I shot the 7 deer i would not hesitate to use that bullet. Perhaps of a more refined ternary alloy but still, with full confidence.

[panhed65]

[QUOTE=rondog;5130017]Cor
rondog, have you shot any critters with that ammo, reason I ask, last year at a gun show, guy was selling it for like $4.00 a box, so I ended up with a bunch of it, could not believe it was that cheap. have not gotten around to shooting any yet. wondering how it will work out.
Barry

[Bigslug]

Hmmm. . . it's good enough to face off against fanatical SS stormtroopers with MG-42's and settle the hash of Banzai-chargers wielding 3-foot, razor-sharp swords, yet somehow, a corn-munching whitetail is beyond its capabilities. . .:mrgreen:

One of my favorite screwin' around guns is a kinda-sorta .32-20 (ish) converted Martini Cadet shooting 130 grain flat noses at about 1600 fps. Having done jug penetration and destruction testing with the round, I'd have been OK with short range shots on deer even when the loads were down around 1200 fps. With an M1 carbine, I would not choose the traditional RNFMJ simply due to (likely) slower bleed out, and I'd want to make sure any expanding round still had sufficient penetration. A medium-sized flat nose gas-checked bullet of a tough alloy, I'd be comfy with sub-100 yards. The main limitation to the M1 is accuracy, but if yours can reliably hit grapefruits across a football field, I'd consider the combination workable.

[GhostHawk]

Back in my younger years I worked for a dairy farmer who had a nice one. Was no problem hitting Jackrabbits in the head with it out to 125 or 150 yards. Especially if you were patient and waited for them to stop, stand up tall, and look around. It would head shoot them every single time.

And I agree with Bigslug. You have to be able to put the bullet where it needs to be at the distance its at.

In theory you should be able to do smaller groups than that grapefruit at 100. Smallish orange to tangerine size would be what I would be looking for.
If you can't, save it for plinking, close varmints that are smaller.

[richhodg66]

Probably wasn't legal even then, but I knew quite a few people who killed them pretty regularly with .22 rifles and didn't feel under gunned while I was growing up in the deep south. Tree stands at woods ranges, especially when the targeted deer is completely unaware of the hunter's presence is a big difference from jump shooting one with its adrenaline up.

[Jedman]

I have never killed a deer with a 30 carbine but I have with a 38 spl. and others that I feel that are less powerful.
I have killed quite a few deer and antelope with Barnes all copper bullets and if you can find them those Cor Bon DPX 30 carbine loads with Barnes bullets would be my choice for behind the shoulder heart or lung shots.

Jedman

[M-Tecs]

One of my dads friends was seriously injured and partially paralyzed in a work accident. After that his Pre 64 270 was to much for him so he started using his 30 Carbine. I know he killed over 20 Whitetail bucks with it. Some of them field dressed at over 200 pounds. I don't believe he lost any. I borrowed that rifle for the one on only deer I took with a 30 Carbine. It was a medium size whitetail buck with one shot to the lungs.

[Lloyd Smale]

wonder how many japs germans and koreans that crossed the bar are laughing at people claiming a m1 carbine wont kill a 100 lb deer.

[richhodg66]

wonder how many japs germans and koreans that crossed the bar are laughing at people claiming a m1 carbine wont kill a 100 lb deer.

Agreed, and I always had my doubts about the stories of them not penetrating the heavy Winter clothes Chinese troops wore in Korea.

I wish I could find the reference now but I remember reading years ago that after the war in interviews with German troops that of all the weapons Americans had, the only one they would have preferred over their own was the M1 Carbine. Kind of suprised me because the Garand and 1911 were clearly better combat weapons than what they had, but they really liked the Carbine, probably because of relatively high capacity and rate of fire.

[PositiveCaster]

wonder how many japs germans and koreans that crossed the bar are laughing at people claiming a m1 carbine wont kill a 100 lb deer.

None I wager. Killing a deer and killing an enemy combatant are two different tasks. We want to kill deer humanely and quickly so we can harvest the meat. While an instant kill of an enemy combatant is nice, as long as they eventually die the shot was still a success. And remember that wounding counts in combat, not so much in hunting. Apples and oranges...



.

[Texas by God]

In his memoirs Lt. Col. John George stated that his #1 choice of all the weapons he used in combat- was the M1Carbine.
I would hunt anything that I would hunt with a bow and arrow with a .30 Carbine confidently. Don’t shoot unless you have a good shot. Simple.

[Larry Gibson]

None I wager. Killing a deer and killing an enemy combatant are two different tasks. We want to kill deer humanely and quickly so we can harvest the meat. While an instant kill of an enemy combatant is nice, as long as they eventually die the shot was still a success. And remember that wounding counts in combat, not so much in hunting. Apples and oranges...



.

Have to disagree.

To quote Sir Brian Harrocks;

"I have always regarded the forward edge of the battlefield as the most exclusive club in the world."

As a member of that "most exclusive club" I learned the mission of an infantryman is to "close with and kill the enemy". No mention of "wound" the enemy in that statement. If you have won the battle, engagement, fire fight, etc. then your immediate concern is to consolidate your position, prepare for a counterattack and then care for the wounded. If you have enemy wounded then they take up personnel and resources to care for them and to guard them. In that "most exclusive" clubhouse you may not have that ability and to do so may mean you are not prepared for the counter attack. Never was I, nor did I ever train any soldier, either my own or those being trained told to shoot to wound. Sometimes some barracks BS artist would come up with the old garbage about how many of the enemy it takes to carry off their wounded. Anyone who is a member of that "most exclusive" club with tell you that is BS simply because if the enemy has the where with all to use 2 - 4 soldiers to carry off their wounded you have lost the battle and are probably dead. Any enemy combatant wounded but not dead is still capable of killing you or your comrades. Additionally in todays prolonged asymmetric warfare if you wound an enemy combatant you may very well meet them again in combat......not good and something I never cared to do nor did any of the Soldiers i served with.

In the big picture with REMF officers commanding from air conditioned vehicles or bunkers I suppose a wounded enemy may "count" for something. However, to those who belong to that "most exclusive club" wounding an enemy combatant means absolutely nothing. Yes, I know that may hurt someone's self esteem or gender preference but in combat I never cared, would care and still don't.

When I hunted something with the M1 Carbine, either 4 or 2 legged I intended to kill it. Actually the one I used to hunt 2 legged DG was an M2 carbine but I never "flipped" it to rock and roll when "hunting" as I've a pretty quick trigger finger......

The 30 carbine will kill deer efficiently within it's limitations.....just as any other cartridge will within it's limitation.

[Beaverhunter2]

As always- very well said, Larry!

My buddy and I were discussing this the other day. If you think a .357 magnum can be used to hunt deer, then a 30 Carbine should also be acceptable. It has the same energy at 100yds as a 158gr .357 does at muzzle.

[Beaverhunter2]

Rightly or wrongly, there's some states that don't consider it energetic enough for deer. Michigan was one as I recall.

.30 Carbine is legal in Michigan north of the restricted firearms line- any centerfire is including .223 (or 17 Hornet for that matter). It's only south of the line they need to be 35 caliber or larger. Read the regs closely. Goofy, isn't it?

John

[NWPilgrim]

.30 Carbine is legal in Michigan north of the restricted firearms line- any centerfire is including .223 (or 17 Hornet for that matter). It's only south of the line they need to be 35 caliber or larger. Read the regs closely. Goofy, isn't it?

John

What? .35 or greater south of the line? Never heard of such a limit. What are the popular calibers there? .35 Whelen? .45-70? That seems an odd limit. Do you know the reasoning behind that?

Learned something new today! :)

[Lloyd Smale]

None I wager. Killing a deer and killing an enemy combatant are two different tasks. We want to kill deer humanely and quickly so we can harvest the meat. While an instant kill of an enemy combatant is nice, as long as they eventually die the shot was still a success. And remember that wounding counts in combat, not so much in hunting. Apples and oranges...



.

still got to hit them right no matter what your using be they man or animal. My uncle was a gunny in the infantry in ww2. He talks about his men being pinned down by a sniper that was in a tree. He said when they shot at him he was hit 3 times (found out later) by m1 garands and was still shooting and killed one more of his men and wounded another. He shot him once in the heat with his m1 carbine and ended it. Now to be honest he didnt have alot of praise for the m1 carbine. He said it just wasnt as reliable as a garand. Or his weapon of choice the thompson. He said many Japs wouldnt stop fighting till there heart stopped. There wasnt an once of bs in him. He had 3 purple hearts and a bronze star for a resume. But the old adage of wounding being better then killing might work in trench warfare but in the jungles or today when faced with drugged up terrorists you want there trigger finger deader then H.

[Lloyd Smale]

.30 Carbine is legal in Michigan north of the restricted firearms line- any centerfire is including .223 (or 17 Hornet for that matter). It's only south of the line they need to be 35 caliber or larger. Read the regs closely. Goofy, isn't it?

John

never could figure that hyprocacy out. Up here you cant see 50 yards when 1/2 the hunters hunt but they will allow you a 300 ultra mag if you want one. Down there you can see clearly accross a field for 500 yards with scope and they want you to use a shotgun! Id think if an accidental shoot were to occour it would be more likely be a man mistaken as a deer by some dumb you know what at a 100 yards sneeking through the trees. Not a guy with orange on at 200 yards in a field. Then in the last 10 years or so theyve come out with rounds that are more then capable at 300 yards. Heck theres shotguns and muzzle loaders that will do that today. Add to that probably 75 percent of hunters in michigan faced with longer then 300 yard shot might as well throw rocks. Probably half them at 200 yards. I know hunters up here that have hunted 50 years that have never shot a deer at a 100 yards. They can make the excuse that its more populated and your more likely to be shooting at someones house. Dont know about there but it can happen here too and there is probably more houses and camps tucked into the woods hard to see. Then add to that the northern half of lower michigan really isnt that much more populated then up here. Its just another form of gun control.

[Lloyd Smale]

Have to disagree.

To quote Sir Brian Harrocks;

"I have always regarded the forward edge of the battlefield as the most exclusive club in the world."

As a member of that "most exclusive club" I learned the mission of an infantryman is to "close with and kill the enemy". No mention of "wound" the enemy in that statement. If you have won the battle, engagement, fire fight, etc. then your immediate concern is to consolidate your position, prepare for a counterattack and then care for the wounded. If you have enemy wounded then they take up personnel and resources to care for them and to guard them. In that "most exclusive" clubhouse you may not have that ability and to do so may mean you are not prepared for the counter attack. Never was I, nor did I ever train any soldier, either my own or those being trained told to shoot to wound. Sometimes some barracks BS artist would come up with the old garbage about how many of the enemy it takes to carry off their wounded. Anyone who is a member of that "most exclusive" club with tell you that is BS simply because if the enemy has the where with all to use 2 - 4 soldiers to carry off their wounded you have lost the battle and are probably dead. Any enemy combatant wounded but not dead is still capable of killing you or your comrades. Additionally in todays prolonged asymmetric warfare if you wound an enemy combatant you may very well meet them again in combat......not good and something I never cared to do nor did any of the Soldiers i served with.

In the big picture with REMF officers commanding from air conditioned vehicles or bunkers I suppose a wounded enemy may "count" for something. However, to those who belong to that "most exclusive club" wounding an enemy combatant means absolutely nothing. Yes, I know that may hurt someone's self esteem or gender preference but in combat I never cared, would care and still don't.

When I hunted something with the M1 Carbine, either 4 or 2 legged I intended to kill it. Actually the one I used to hunt 2 legged DG was an M2 carbine but I never "flipped" it to rock and roll when "hunting" as I've a pretty quick trigger finger......

The 30 carbine will kill deer efficiently within it's limitations.....just as any other cartridge will within it's limitation.

well said larry. the only good enemy combatant is a dead one.

[smkummer]

I am not adding anything new here but Winchester originally advertised the 32-20 as a deer cartridge. While they don’t do that anymore, the 30 carbine has about twice the energy. Many cast bullets will work for both 32-20 and sized properly work in the 30 carbine.
I remember a story from N. Dakota deer hunting. Sometimes hunters wanted a deer no matter what so they would hunt to fill tags, even though I believe that was illegal. Anyway, a group of 4 hunters went hunting with the hunter carrying a 30 carbine first to come upon a herd of deer at close enough range. I don’t know how many shots ( he was limited to a 8 round mag.) but killed 4 deer very soon after the season opened. Most ND deer are well fed and of good size. The rest of the story was the other hunters were a little upset that they barely started the season and it was over.
Another current ND hunter swears by his Remington 222 as a deer killer. I cringe at using a 50 grain 222 bullet.

[Rcmaveric]

None I wager. Killing a deer and killing an enemy combatant are two different tasks. We want to kill deer humanely and quickly so we can harvest the meat. While an instant kill of an enemy combatant is nice, as long as they eventually die the shot was still a success. And remember that wounding counts in combat, not so much in hunting. Apples and oranges...



.Wounding doesn't count in combat. I was trained to remove the threat and keep shooting until the threat is gone. Wounded men fight just as hard as none wounded. How many purple heart rewardies does the US have because they kept shooting until the bitter end?

Killing a man or killing a deer, takes about the same amount of gun and 12 inches of penetration. Deer don't fight back though, or atleast don't shoot back.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[rondog]

[QUOTE=rondog;5130017]Cor
rondog, have you shot any critters with that ammo, reason I ask, last year at a gun show, guy was selling it for like $4.00 a box, so I ended up with a bunch of it, could not believe it was that cheap. have not gotten around to shooting any yet. wondering how it will work out.
Barry

I have not, I'm not fortunate enough to have the health to go hunting anymore or a place to go. But the slug I pictured is one I shot into water jugs, flat ruined them jugs!

[panhed65]

rondog, thanks for the answer, I have been wondering since I bought them just why he was selling them so cheap. looks from your picture they expand well. guess I will soon try some out if I ever get done shoveling snow.
Barry

[kingrj]

No matter what anyone tells you...a deer shot with a 30 carbine softpoint in the lungs will die and go in your freezer as well as one shot with a .458 winchester....Not my first choice but with a well placed shot it will bring home the meat..

[444ttd]

its not my first choice either, but dad wants to do it.

[Big Dipper]

The 30 carbine certanly works on killing feral goats and pigs in the island of Maui. Easy to carry and can handle harsh conditons. And they cost about $50.00 in the mid seventies.

[Beaverhunter2]

What? .35 or greater south of the line? Never heard of such a limit. What are the popular calibers there? .35 Whelen? .45-70? That seems an odd limit. Do you know the reasoning behind that?

Learned something new today! :)

South of the "Restricted Firearms Line" (which we used to call the "Shotgun Zone") Michigan now allows rifles with straight-walled cartridges 35 cal or larger with a case length minimum 1.16" and maximum 1.80". Therefore, .30 carbine is excluded. .450 Bushmaster and .350 Legend have become super popular in this area now. Like Lloyd said above, it's about the higher population in the area and trying to keep bullets from carrying too far and hitting a house (which happens once every couple years). A lot of farm country there but I've hunted areas south of the line where the grapevines, locust and buckthorn are so thick you'd be better off with a pistol- stands where the maximum shot is <30 yards. Just the kind of spots that deer head to when the shooting starts.

I've hunted all three Zones in Michigan and the longest shot I've taken in my life I made this year with a muzzleloader- 153 yards. That shot was at our camp in the Northern Lower (north of the "line") down a shooting lane I'd cleared with a chainsaw. In pretty much all areas of Michigan, if you're not hunting a farm field the only way you'll be able to make a clear 200 yard shot is shooting across a lake. My daughter's ex-boyfriend was from Wyoming. He said all the trees here made him feel claustrophobic! LOL

Want to know something really silly? The restriction only applies to firearm deer season. South of the Line on private land and in State Game areas I can hunt coyotes in the daytime with a 50 BMG and at night I can use up to 6.5mm. Go figure....

[Old School Big Bore]

My hunting buddy Montana Pistol Hunter has killed a trainload of Central Texas whitetails with a .32 flint rifle and a .36 Navy, and almost that many with a baby rolling block in .38 SPL. Paco Kelly writes about killing scads of deer with a series of .32-20s. My latest woods-walking pair is a Browning B53 and a 4" S&W M1905 in .32-20 and I'm confident in handling whatever I encounter. One of my sons killed his first deer with my hot-rodded M1 Carbine and a handload with the Hornady 110 grain JHP, with both my hunting buddy and myself jammed into the little ground blind micromanaging him and ensuring that he was shooting the designated cull spike. And until I could berate my then-agency into providing us with M4s, that Carbine with the Remington 110 JSP was my entry- and building-search- rifle and I was never undergunned. As many will say, it's the equivalent of a 110 gr .357 Magnum. When I found another one at an estate sale for a good price, I snapped it up and hot-rodded it as well. These two M1 Carbines still serve as the front- and back-door "estate rifles" here, and get warmed up at the range "right regular".
Yeah, I'm a fan and so is SWMBO. So are all my sons, three of whom are combat veterans.
Use a quality cup-and-core 110 grain bullet over H110/296 or LilGun and have Pops shoot enough of it to be competent and confident. Just to reassure him and yourself, do a couple of water-jug splats with it and you'll see it has plenty of torque for the job.
Ed <><

[Beaverhunter2]

My hunting buddy Montana Pistol Hunter has killed a trainload of Central Texas whitetails with a .32 flint rifle and a .36 Navy, and almost that many with a baby rolling block in .38 SPL. Paco Kelly writes about killing scads of deer with a series of .32-20s. My latest woods-walking pair is a Browning B53 and a 4" S&W M1905 in .32-20 and I'm confident in handling whatever I encounter. One of my sons killed his first deer with my hot-rodded M1 Carbine and a handload with the Hornady 110 grain JHP, with both my hunting buddy and myself jammed into the little ground blind micromanaging him and ensuring that he was shooting the designated cull spike. And until I could berate my then-agency into providing us with M4s, that Carbine with the Remington 110 JSP was my entry- and building-search- rifle and I was never undergunned. As many will say, it's the equivalent of a 110 gr .357 Magnum. When I found another one at an estate sale for a good price, I snapped it up and hot-rodded it as well. These two M1 Carbines still serve as the front- and back-door "estate rifles" here, and get warmed up at the range "right regular".
Yeah, I'm a fan and so is SWMBO. So are all my sons, three of whom are combat veterans.
Use a quality cup-and-core 110 grain bullet over H110/296 or LilGun and have Pops shoot enough of it to be competent and confident. Just to reassure him and yourself, do a couple of water-jug splats with it and you'll see it has plenty of torque for the job.
Ed <><

Hi Ed!

Would you share more details on your "hot-rodding"?;)

Thanks!

John

[dale2242]

I am also interested in hearing what 'hot rodding' an M1 carbine means.

[Old School Big Bore]

Dale & BeaverHunter - I don't want to hijack the thread but I guess it's germane...
I should point out that both these Carbines are SHOOTERS, not "collectors", and that I don't have and won't tolerate any safe queens - firearms are meant to be fired, and all of mine are regularly and respectfully warmed up. As close as some of them are to being "works of art", they are first and foremost TOOLS and since they are MY tools, I will modify them as I wish.
The first thing I did to 'em was to feel my way down the bore with a tight patch (I don't have a bore camera). I suspect that most of the stories you hear about inaccurate .30 Carbines are due to the heat-shrunk gas block making a tight spot in the bore. If a bullet gets swaged down there, it's not gonna recover in the rest of the barrel, and that rifle will most likely never group well. If your Carbine has that tight spot, you can lap it away in the classic manner. Luckily, neither of mine needed lapping.
Both of them did, however, come to me in stocks that had become oil-soaked over the years. The wood came off and the fixed, not folding, Choate synthetic stocks went on. While I was fitting the stocks, the issue bayonet-lug front bands were replaced by the non-lugged type, and the left-side sling loops were replaced by simple spacers. I drilled the toe of the stock for a sling-swivel stud, and attached a pair of studs to the underline of the fore-end, reinforced with heavy washers in the op rod inletting area. Now the little rifle is not only bipod-capable but works with a no-fooling, actual-factual-for-real shooting sling as well. Next addition was the Ultimak railed upper handguard, because optics. In the past I have tried several versions of the type of scope mount that bolts to a threaded wedge in the rear sight dovetail. THEY DO NOT WORK. That one little screw is not going to support the weight of any scope. I did have minor success after sawing one of the mounts down to basically a one-slot pic mount, and it survived with a very lightweight red dot, but then I no longer had backup irons, and that reaffirmed the dovetail mount as a Bad Idea. Both of the guns wear a small, light red dot on a QD mount, and the irons and dot are both zeroed with the same ammo. One of the guns got a Williams rear sight bolted on; the other soldiers on with the issue rear sight. Both needed new front sights, apparently after previous owners had needlessly shortened/narrowed the originals. Both were also treated to rebuild spring kits and judicious polishing of their feed ramps and other parts as needed. The Remington 110 ball and JSP, and my ball and JHP handloads, all shoot into the same group.
When I "butchered" the first Carbine, I was the Operations NCO at the TXARNG SARTS and the appearance of the unforgivably Bubba'd little rifle was the target of much derision. Once you've heard "WALNUT AND STEEL WALNUT AND STEEL WALNUT AND STEEL" screeched at you from every inhabitant of billets, shop and range over an entire weekend, you kinda get the idea. BUT when we were whanging on some "E" Iron Mikes at the 300 yard line of the Camp Swift KD range on that same trip, and I got prone/bipod with the little gem, the hidebound jeering purists suddenly got interested, because I ran off a 30 round mag at just about cyclic, with all rounds clanging satisfyingly in the middle of the silhouette. Squad Automatic Carbine, anyone? Everyone wanted to shoot it, and did.
That was the Carbine used by my youngest son to bag that first TX Hill Country spike, and which rode in my patrol unit until supplanted by a series of M4s, sometimes my .44 B92, and finally my shorty AR10 which I call an M5.
If you got a chuckle out of this, you should have heard my fellow shooters when they saw my "modernized" Garand....
Ed <><

[richhodg66]

I am not adding anything new here but Winchester originally advertised the 32-20 as a deer cartridge. While they don’t do that anymore, the 30 carbine has about twice the energy. Many cast bullets will work for both 32-20 and sized properly work in the 30 carbine.
I remember a story from N. Dakota deer hunting. Sometimes hunters wanted a deer no matter what so they would hunt to fill tags, even though I believe that was illegal. Anyway, a group of 4 hunters went hunting with the hunter carrying a 30 carbine first to come upon a herd of deer at close enough range. I don’t know how many shots ( he was limited to a 8 round mag.) but killed 4 deer very soon after the season opened. Most ND deer are well fed and of good size. The rest of the story was the other hunters were a little upset that they barely started the season and it was over.
Another current ND hunter swears by his Remington 222 as a deer killer. I cringe at using a 50 grain 222 bullet.

There was a guy in our gun club when I was growing up who was about the same age as my Dad. He farmed and basically only used one rifle, a Remington 722 in .222 he had bought as a very young man when they first came out and put a top of the line Zeiss scope on it, must have cost a young famer deerly to get that rifle. Anyway, he pretty much lived outside in the state with the longest and most generous deer season in the US and had a ton of shot opportunities at deer and the patience and steady nerves to wait for perfect shots. He was a very good shooter under field conditions and killed dozens a year to feed the family, always at he base of the skull and never had one that wasn't DRT, if he squeezed the trigger, the deer was as good as instant dead.

[Prairie Cowboy]

As a younger man back in the early 80s, I was able to consistently hit pop cans with my .30 carbine at 50 yards offhand, and to cluster all of my shots into a small paper pie plate at 100 yards. So, practical accuracy is not a problem if you have learned proper shooting skills.

I would think that it would make an effective 75 yard whitetail deer rifle if you can hit where you shoot. People do kill whitetails with standard velocity .44-40 and .45 Colt factory loads from their carbines.

[Beaverhunter2]

As a younger man back in the early 80s, I was able to consistently hit pop cans with my .30 carbine at 50 yards offhand, and to cluster all of my shots into a small paper pie plate at 100 yards. So, practical accuracy is not a problem if you have learned proper shooting skills.

I would think that it would make an effective 75 yard whitetail deer rifle if you can hit where you shoot. People do kill whitetails with standard velocity .44-40 and .45 Colt factory loads from their carbines.

Your comment on .44-40 reminded me of a statement a writer made in a review of the cartridge that I read- "The .44-40 has probably killed more game (big and small) and more people (good and bad) than any other cartridge in the country." Today most folks would look at a rifle with a 200gr bullet at 1200fps and think "popgun". At one time it was the most popular cartridge in the US.

Bullet placement (with sufficient penetration) beats kinetic energy nearly every time. The same thing would apply to .30 Carbine.

[Gundogx2]

My uncle in the interior of British Columbia was a logger who carried a huge chain saw and was a faller. During hunting season while he was in the bush he slung a m1 carbine over his off shoulder he harvested deer and elk yearly don’t know of the caliber of legality he really didn’t care unfortunately after he pasted his firearms were sold off before I had a chance to get ahold of any of them I would have loved to get that m1 carbine I did get to shoot it a few times it was a GM model if I remember correctly


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[Mk42gunner]

My uncle in the interior of British Columbia was a logger who carried a huge chain saw and was a faller. During hunting season while he was in the bush he slung a m1 carbine over his off shoulder he harvested deer and elk yearly don’t know of the caliber of legality he really didn’t care unfortunately after he pasted his firearms were sold off before I had a chance to get ahold of any of them I would have loved to get that m1 carbine I did get to shoot it a few times it was a GM model if I remember correctly


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And that was what the M-1 Carbine was really developed for; an easy to carry light rifle that was more effective than a pistol, for people whose primary job is not infantry.

Robert

[MOshooter]

30 carbine was the first rifle I started hunting whitetail with, and took my first 2 deer with the M1 Carbine back in the early 70's.
30 Carbine will definitely kill deer with proper bullet placement.

[JSnover]

"Wounding Doctrine" was nothing more than an attempt to justify the adoption of smaller bullets. A search of The Mighty Internet will turn up hundreds of stories of soldiers on all sides who were wounded by by larger/more powerful cartridges and continued to fight.
7.62x39 is thought to be a fantastic medium game cartridge but I personally knew a former helicopter pilot who took nine of those bullets when he was shot down (he has since passed on). He told me if his buddies hadn't cared for him he never would have made it to the prison camp because the NVA weren't interested in providing first aid to Americans. Is it good enough for deer? Sure it is.
30 M1 has the ballistic performance to do the job but it can't make up for poor marksmanship.

[missionary5155]

With a FN 120 grain cast the carbine M1 cartridge makes a very effective 50 yard yote round.
If all I had was our Inland sure I would brain or spine shoot corn crunchers up close under 50 yards.
But I will prefer other more powerful cartridges to include caliber .54 and up flinters as I have no desire to be using the minimum gun just to see if I can.

[Goofy]

First CF rifle I shot was a M1 Carbine back around ‘63, maybe ‘64. At the time a fella I knew was whacking hogs and a few deer with the M1 using issue ammo. This was on Guam and he was a USAF Sgt. So, there are better cartridges and guns, but it does not mean the M1 is inadequate.

A very few years later I fired my second CF rifle courtesy of the Army. Still don’t care much for the M14 but the cartridge is fine. #3 was the M16, used in self defense about a week after it was issued. My thought at the time was that it was sure ‘nuff a dinky little round. Well, here’s a list of what I saw it kill, and I’ll toss in a report on some other cartridges just because too many folks worry about FPS/FPE than placement.

M-16; people, monkeys, deer, hogs, water buffalo, elephant (1 shot and that bet cost me a case of beer)
1911 Colt; hogs, water buffalo on the run, one shot
S&W .38 Spcl; 3 NVA. That were poking my flight school buddy in the butt when he regained consciousness after crashing and being ejected from the chopper. 3 shots followed by a severe hangover the following morning.

Back in the states and retired I wound up doing volunteer work for the state in effort to eradicate feral hogs on a coastal island for about 15 years. 95% of the 200+ hogs killed to date were put down within the first 3 years, and all them were killed with .22 RF. I used CCI CB shorts for the most part and only had to shoot one of the first hundred or so a second time.

A fella needs to do what he can with what he can use. Success or failure is likely bettered determined by hunting and shooting skills than debate about ballistic characteristics.

[Gator 45/70]

Have a 43 Inland around here in something protecting it? Haven't shot the thing in years.

[Pioneer2]

"Wounding Doctrine" was nothing more than an attempt to justify the adoption of smaller bullets. A search of The Mighty Internet will turn up hundreds of stories of soldiers on all sides who were wounded by by larger/more powerful cartridges and continued to fight.
7.62x39 is thought to be a fantastic medium game cartridge but I personally knew a former helicopter pilot who took nine of those bullets when he was shot down (he has since passed on). He told me if his buddies hadn't cared for him he never would have made it to the prison camp because the NVA weren't interested in providing first aid to Americans. Is it good enough for deer? Sure it is.
30 M1 has the ballistic performance to do the job but it can't make up for poor marksmanship.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ak-47-wound-over-an-m4-2015-12 My buddies daughters moose dropped dead after 3 /123gr SP's from a CZ 527 7.62x39.The last two rds weren't really needed.Two rds exited broadside at 75 yards.One found nicely mushroomed.

[dogrunner]

Many, many years back I was in a 'dog' hunt club wherein both the latter and horses were utilized. One of the old fella's had a .30 carbine that he'd apparently 'liberated' from his time in service, even had a leather military scabbard as an accessory........only problem was that since he was on horseback, when he yanked that piece from its carrier he 'tripped the switch'.......you see, his liberated piece was an M-2 model and so marked!...........he solved that problem by literally breaking off the selector with pliers! And no, I do not know if or not it was papered, frankly I doubt it, but it wasn't any of my business and other than enjoying listening to his amusing diatribe about never being able to get off a 'good' second shot it made little little difference to me. So much for the value of automatic fire!

For what it's worth, that old man killed a bunch of deer, usually with a single shot and the ammo I saw in use was FMJ military stuff......looked as old as the man using it! Worked good on hogs as well.

[Char-Gar]

Back in the early 60s, when the DCM was selling the M1Carbines for very little money, I got one. It was a very good shape Rock-Ola. I never shot a deer with it, but several others did. I keep it as a loaner. I loaded a 110 Hornady Spire Point, but I would have to look up the powder charge. Three or four deer fell to the little carbine and my handloads. I am certain there are better deer rifles, but the little carbine will do the job.

[JSnover]

https://www.businessinsider.com/ak-47-wound-over-an-m4-2015-12 My buddies daughters moose dropped dead after 3 /123gr SP's from a CZ 527 7.62x39.The last two rds weren't really needed.Two rds exited broadside at 75 yards.One found nicely mushroomed.

I got nothing against the 7.62x39, I think it's generally more effective against humans, since we usually don't weigh as much medium-sized game animals and our hides are fairly thin. It is an effective cartridge but it has the same limitation as any other: shot placement matters. If it was a Totally Awesome Stone Cold Killer my deceased friend would not have lived to tell me his story. Had he been shot nine times with a 30 M1 Carbine the results might have been identical but either of those cartridges are still adequate for deer.

[Goofy]

Hot rodding the .30 Carbine? Why not.

Hodgdon data puts a 110 gr SP out the muzzle at about 2,075 fps in their labs, and does the same with mine using Li'l Gun. Nah, I don't jerk the trigger fast as I can.

Was burning up some S&B ammo (yuk!) on the 100 yard butt a few years back.
https://i.imgur.com/Ot0vlk6.jpg

I like my loads better
https://i.imgur.com/82MxNtK.jpg

[WestKentucky]

I talked to a Korean War vet who was in a mortar squad, I asked him about the rumors of a 30 carbine not penetrating a Chinese winter coat. He looked at me in the eyes and said... I call tell you about 8-9 Chinese who doesn’t believe that....

I have used 30 carbine for deer using Remington SP and also my own cast bullet, the lee 309-115fn(soup can) and also the NOE 310-130rn I use 2400 powder with a GC pc bullet and out to 75 yards I had no problems.... I hit behind the shoulder and they ran maybe 20-30 yards. But I don’t use my M1 Carbines....
278547278548278549

Your stock is prettier than mine. I hope my oldest can use my 62 (.30) to take a deer this year. If not mine, she can use my dads (.256) between the two of us we have just about every option covered, but yours is in better shape than either of ours. Dad got his as a birthday present when he was 15. Mine came from a coworker who had been given the gun for his son and he wanted to trade it for a 20ga single. I did well. Dad used his for chucks for 20 years until he couldn’t find ammo. I reload for both calibers now.

[Pioneer2]

The old wives tale of the .30 carbine not penetrating chi-com winter clothing is BS and has been proven with frozen denim /wool and ballistic gel out to 200 yards.Shooting them past that range still killed but not quickly as the 06

[Larry Gibson]

The old wives tale of the .30 carbine not penetrating chi-com winter clothing is BS and has been proven with frozen denim /wool and ballistic gel out to 200 yards.Shooting them past that range still killed but not quickly as the 06

But I heard that from a guy who mumbled "semper Fi" in a bar who said his brother in law had an uncle who knew this guy who said he was at the "Frozen Chosin" who said all the Marines through their M1 Carbines away because of that.....so it must be true....?

[Char-Gar]

[QUOTE=Larry Gibson;5186684]But I heard that from a guy who mumbled "semper Fi" in a bar who said his brother in law had an uncle who knew this guy who said he was at the "Frozen Chosin" who said all the Marines through their M1 Carbines away because of that.....so it must be true....?[/QUOTE

There was a similar story floating around after WWII. Supposedly if you hit a man in the ear with ball ammo out of a 45 Auto, it would break his neck. Then there was the story that a round from a "Jap 25" rifle was no more dangerous than a bee sting.

[Bmi48219]

FYI Classic Firearms has another batch of refurbished M-1 carbines for sale. Various manufacturers. Prices starting at $1,500. I’m not plugging the seller. Just saying they’re out there and not getting any cheaper.

[444ttd]

midway sells them too

[YippyKiYay]

Was reading a book about monster Mule Deer. Seems the #1 Mule Deer kilt in NM was way back in the day using....drum role please....a 32-20 WCF!! Just hit them in the right place and you'll be fine, wait for the shot.

[Bigbore5]

If you can find someone to cast you some since the mold is out of stock, I have killed many varmints and a few deer with th mp molds mjollnir bullet from a 32-20. Just size them down to.308" for the carbine. I've shot them for om the blackhawk sized down with great accuracy. Use the large hp and coww powder coated and you'll be fine if you broadside the lungs. If you don't pc, then you need the gc version. I'd help but can't seem to catch the mold in stock.