Bevel base vs. flat base bullets

[FISH4BUGS]

I am trying to get a handle on the general preference of the cast bullets shooters here.
When I retire (which may be a few years from now) I may well put my Hensley & Gibbs mould collection to work and do a side gig casting and selling ONLY cast bullets from H&G moulds.
I can see "Dr. Donald's Gourmet Hensley & Gibbs Bullets" as a marketing tool to differentiate my bullets from the rest.
So...before I have some of my bevel based moulds modified, "....I gots ta know". (an obscure Dirty Harry reference) :)
Do you prefer bevel base or flat base cast bullets and why?
Let the debate start in 3-2-1......

[onelight]

When I buy molds I buy flat base . But the commercial bullets I buy are all bevel base .
They both work for me.

[Castaway]

Be advised, one would think selling formed pieces of lead would be no problem, but you have to clear the legal hoops first and get an FFL. Put me down for non-bevel.

[JoeJames]

I prefer a square almost sharp base.

[FISH4BUGS]

Be advised, one would think selling formed pieces of lead would be no problem, but you have to clear the legal hoops first and get an FFL. Put me down for non-bevel.

So noted. :)

[Burnt Fingers]

b
Be advised, one would think selling formed pieces of lead would be no problem, but you have to clear the legal hoops first and get an FFL. Put me down for non-bevel.

This right here. It requires a Federal license, and I can only imagine the hoops you will have to jump through running a lead based business.

I would NEVER modify a H&G mold. There aren't going to be any more of them.

I used to be a flat based boolit guy but a Lyman 452630 changed my mind. Those bevel based boolits load a lot easier on a progressive press.

[SSGOldfart]

I'm making my own with H&G molds

[mdi]

I have only purchased one bevel based bullet mold, but have purchased commercial cast bevel based. I haven't seen enough difference to make a case for either as my bullets, either flat based or bevel based have performed well. No difference in accuracy and no extra leading from BB, but today 99% of my cast bullet shooting is with flat based bullets. One thing about flat base; it is way easier and quicker to determine the quality of a pour with a sharp cornered flat base...


A few previous discussions on the topic;
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?68970-Are-there-any-cons-to-bevel-base-bullets
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?304876-Bevel-base-or-flat-base
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?355914-Bevel-base-vs-plain-base-cast-bullets
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?383209-Flat-base-vs-Bevel-base

[FredBuddy]

I happened to have 2 Lee 158 RNFP moulds,
which are bevel based. My 1894 Marlin lever
didn't like them, so I made one of them a flat
base. Now my Marlin is happier. That same
rifle really likes my powder coated Lee 125 RNFP
which is a flat base.

There's more: I have a few NOE moulds in
30 and 32 caliber cut with both gas check and
plain base shanks. I have run plain base
powder coated boolits up to 1800 FPS
with good accuracy.

Flat base.

[tazman]

I haven't seen any difference in accuracy in my handguns. The bevel base is easier to get started into the case during seating.

[popper]

Handgun, bevel is fine but I prefer FB. Rifle - all FB. I do agree, don't mod and irreplaceable mould.

[green mountain boy]

h&g molds are great molds as is, i think you will be sorry if you alter them.....no more will ever be made, so, why do it? you will have a tough time making a profit making lead bullets slowly. buy the machines that produce them quickly or dont go at all.

[derek45]

Wwekd ???

[FISH4BUGS]

You will have a tough time making a profit making lead bullets slowly. buy the machines that produce them quickly or dont go at all.

Clearly you have never used an 8 or a 10- cavity H&G mould. :)

[Budzilla 19]

Hey, Donald , here’s a novel idea, you do what ya want to, and the market will let ya know if you made the correct decision. Btw, how you doing up there?? Just checking. Be safe.

[BJK]

As already mentioned BB loads better on some loaders. I find when I use heavy for the caliber bullets, such as 160s in 9mm that a flat base bullet will sometimes swage the brass when the bullet interferes with the inside head. Too, in rifles with worn muzzles from too many GIs getting over enthusiastic with cleaning rods (Garand) a bevel base will destroy accuracy where a flat base has no effect.

[Valley-Shooter]

Bevel base for all my semi-auto pistol rounds. Best for progressive loading presses . I have 6 of them.

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[AndyC]

I prefer flat, personally, but I'm not sure I can shoot well enough to tell the difference between the two.

[dtknowles]

I prefer flat bases but then I cast my own so....I would not be a customer. I am more worried about accuracy than speed of production. If I am going to buy cast bullets I might has well just buy loaded ammo. If I want a whole lot of ammo in a hurry I would just buy it by the case. Oh, wait, I already did that. I think more important than the base shape is the alloy and lube. Most factory cast bullets are too hard with hard lube. Also bullets don't come in enough variety of diameters. If you are going to make boutique bullets your customers need to be able to choose alloy, lube and diameter. All that said, if most of you customers are loading on progressive presses in volume they probably don't care about those things and just want a powder coated bevel base bullet so the load easy and don't leave lube in the seat and crimp die/dies.

Tim

[Taterhead]

I used to think I preferred plain based bullets, but lately have been specifying my molds in BB. Easier to load in volume.

I would definitely not alter an H&G mold.


EDITED TO ADD:
Could be a nice retirement gig after all the regulations are dealt with. The one problem is that it could take what was once an enjoyable hobby and turn it into something that feels like a J-O-B!

[Winger Ed.]

The commercial stuff might be bevel based to go through the sizing machine easier and not snag.

[Targa]

Bevel or flat base, I couldn’t care less. Either one puts the holes where they should go if I do my part.

[charlie b]

When buying them I prefer bevel base or gas checked.

When casting I prefer flat base.

I flare the case enough that both go through my progressive press just fine.

[oldhenry]

With my 81 year old eyes both types shoot the same. I prefer the BB for ease of loading on my 550s. The MP BB design is very slight & may be the best of both.

Back in the 80's when I was shooting IHMSA I would prefer the FB: shooting 200 meter rams is different from 25 yd. falling plates.

In the late 70's I got a manufacturers FFL to make boolits (more or less to support my shooting habit). I had to jump through many hoops to get that license & shutter to think of all the red tape that would be required today. One evening when my wife was helping me box some up she ask how much I was charging? When I told her she said she'd pay that just to not have to do it. She's a smart woman.

With the cost of the raw materials + the time required you may want to 2nd. think.

[FISH4BUGS]

Hey, Donald , here’s a novel idea, you do what ya want to, and the market will let ya know if you made the correct decision. Btw, how you doing up there?? Just checking. Be safe.
Well, that kind of negates the action of removing the bevel base if I am wrong. Once gone, never to return.
If I was right, then I was right. I am trying to gather some opinions here before taking any action at all.
Maybe cast a bunch as see how they sell as a test?
All is well here in NH. The maple trees were tapped yesterday so spring is not far away.

[Burnt Fingers]

I used to think I preferred plain based bullets, but lately have been specifying my molds in BB. Easier to load in volume.

I would definitely not alter an H&G mold.


EDITED TO ADD:
Could be a nice retirement gig after all the regulations are dealt with. The one problem is that it could take what was once an enjoyable hobby and turn it into something that feels like a J-O-B!

I've done this twice in my life. Both times I found a need and filled it. Both times I made a lot of money. Both times I ended up working an additional 40-50 hours per week, on top of the 50-60 I was working at my full time job. Both times I got so tired of it I just walked away. I can no longer even think of taking up either hobby again.

[John Boy]

Having in excess of over 200 bullet molds in inventory from multiple makers and several obsolete Ideal molds to current, I believe I might have one bevel based mold ... enough said

[gwpercle]

I've tried them both , side by side in accuracy testing in 38 special and 45 acp and honestly could see no difference ... in fact the 38 special might have shot just a little better with the bevel based boolits . I could never really see a concise answer .

Then again perhaps the commercial cast boolits were just better than my by hand pressure cast boolits

These are regular pressure target loads . Now Elmer Keith swore up and down that flat base were better and perhaps in 44 magnum heavy loads they are . When I go 357 magnum loads I use Skeeter Skelton's recommended Lyman #358156 GC and slap on the gas check .

I think when used in light and standard loads the bevel base will do OK ...
Gary

[Cherokee]

Bevel base. For years the conventional wisdom was sharp flat base's but I came to learn it didn't matter in my shooting performance. In my opinion, a uniform bevel base is just as good.

[SODAPOPMG]

If you are going to ship the bullets in a bulk type package the bevel base bullets will show less damage than the Sharp edge of the flat based bullets

[ioon44]

I've tried them both and could see no difference as long as the bases are filled out, I am more interested in the nose and how it feeds.

[Burnt Fingers]

Commercial cast boolits are designed to resist damage in shipping. Shooting them comes secondary.

[Larry Gibson]

Years ago I had access to a very solidly mounted Ransom Rest. There was also a local commercial caster who cast several handgun bullets in both BB and FB of the same bullet. I got several different 38, 44 and 45 caliber bullets and thoroughly test both types of based bullets in the 38 SPL (my Power custom PPC revolver based on a S&W M10), the 44 Magnum ( a Ruger Super BH and a M29 S%W) and the 45 ACP (both M1911 Series 70 and a M25 S&W Target). Testing was done with 12 and 14 shot groups at 50 yards with identical target loads and +P or magnum level loads. In every single test the FB'd bullets produced better accuracy, sometimes with 1/2 the size groups as the BB'd bullets produced.

[44MAG#1]

Here is a statement from a guy that posts on one forum and one I put a lot of confidence in concerning FB and BB bullets..

"in every test the FB bullets proved more accurate.
However, I doubt 99.99% of shooters can take advantage of the difference in accuracy."

I will go with that statement, myself.

[John Boy]

Look at FB being a better bullet for reloads with wad protecting the base;
*. The FB will seal fully in the leade and the leading bore cuts on ignition
* It will fully seal in the bore grooves with no gas leakage with proper alloy
Both of these factors when run over the chrono for FPS ... means the bullet is traveling at the same speed to the target and when dug out of a snow bank or sawdust pile ... will still have a flat sharp base

[onelight]

I don't doubt what Larry says at all if he tells us of his results I believe he got exactly what he said and appreciate every post he makes. I wish I had a fraction of the knowledge that Larry and Outpost75 and many others here share with us.
But for me where 90% of what I shoot is at 5 to 25 yards off hand I use the economical coated commercial cast bullets , all of the ones I buy are bevel base . When I want better I cast my own . I don't compete in any formal target shoots or competitions . I shoot for fun and my own entertainment mostly with CC guns. The bevel base will shoot under an inch at 7 yards and most will shoot 3 to 4" at 25 on days when I do my part . I used to get all the free lead I needed . And before the coated bullets the cheap commercial cast were not near as forgiving , to hard the wrong size and lube that did not perform well , so I used to cast all my bullets . Not any more , I like 950 coated bullets for $50.00 :)

[gwpercle]

Years ago I had access to a very solidly mounted Ransom Rest. There was also a local commercial caster who cast several handgun bullets in both BB and FB of the same bullet. I got several different 38, 44 and 45 caliber bullets and thoroughly test both types of based bullets in the 38 SPL (my Power custom PPC revolver based on a S&W M10), the 44 Magnum ( a Ruger Super BH and a M29 S%W) and the 45 ACP (both M1911 Series 70 and a M25 S&W Target). Testing was done with 12 and 14 shot groups at 50 yards with identical target loads and +P or magnum level loads. In every single test the FB'd bullets produced better accuracy, sometimes with 1/2 the size groups as the BB'd bullets produced.

Sometimes it takes a Ransom Rest to bring out the real picture ... I had always heard flat based were "better" and this probably proves it . I couldn't "prove" it because I was shooting unsupported .
Thanks for posting your results . Icast my own flat based when I can but if I have to will load and shoot commercial bevel base base , for fun not money , when I don't have time to cast them right .
Gary

[kevin c]

Bevel base for me. I need to produce ammo in multiple four digit quantities each month for action pistol, where 2.5" 25 yd group accuracy is considered satisfactory. So even if some find them a little less accurate than flat based, that, for me, is a very small price to pay for the greater ease and speed of loading.

[muskeg13]

Another consideration might be leading with bevel base in revolvers. I haven't done enough shooting to absolutely confirm what I suspect. Here's the situation I encountered last fall. I was shooting a Ruger Blackhawk/Buckeye with the 10mm cylinder. Loads were commercial cast 180 TC BB and Unique 6.5gr. I had applied a light coat of LLA over the commercial lube. I shot maybe 30 rounds or so for fun, accuracy seemed fine for me, but later when I went to clean the gun, there was a heavy lead deposit in the forcing cone. I'd never had a problem with leading before in this gun and suspected that the bevel based bullets may be the cause. I loaded a another batch of 10mm, again using 6.5gr Unique, but this time loaded 1/2 with a card wad under the bevel base bullets, and loaded the other 1/2 with 175 gr flat base rounded flat point bullets (AC/WW) like you'd use for a .38-40. After shooting 20 of each, accuracy was fine (minute of coke can) and there was no leading.