Musings on .45/70 for trapdoor/rolling block

[mike britton]

I just tumbled up 20 rounds of brass and have another 20 tumbling.
I also have the maybe 100 year old loads you see that I would kind of like to run through my trapdoor and my rolling block, but I'm afraid of ruining pretty bores.
My favorite go to load for these two rifles is 30gr. 3031 under a 400gr. cast.
What else do you guys like for the trapdoor?
Mine is a pristine 1886 with a perfect bore, so it will stand a bit more than some of the earlier models.
The big rolling block will stand some pretty stiff loads, and I have shot regular factory (28,000#) through it, but I don't like to poke the bear....

[a danl]

I just tumbled up 20 rounds of brass and have another 20 tumbling.
I also have the maybe 100 year old loads you see that I would kind of like to run through my trapdoor and my rolling block, but I'm afraid of ruining pretty bores.
My favorite go to load for these two rifles is 30gr. 3031 under a 400gr. cast.
What else do you guys like for the trapdoor?
Mine is a pristine 1886 with a perfect bore, so it will stand a bit more than some of the earlier models.
The big rolling block will stand some pretty stiff loads, and I have shot regular factory (28,000#) through it, but I don't like to poke the bear....

first thing you should do is slug the bore, one of mine measures .0462 . if you get gas cutting i finally figured out to seat a 45 cal gas check upside down and since it's a straight wall case it will stay in place when seating the bullet and act as a great gas seal. that should solve that problem. also my standard load for the 400 gr lead was 38.0 of your choice. which you mentioned above. have fun it's a great cartridge

[mike britton]

Wow! So my 30 gr. load is a bit soft for the trapdoor? Good to know, as I like the load.

[Winger Ed.]

If you clean it like you would for BP or corrosive primers, I don't see how it would hurt the bore.

I probably wouldn't shoot them anyway. They're too much of a novelty for that.
They'd probably be worth a few bucks each to collectors being unfired.....
As spent brass that might be balloon heads- not so much.

[mike britton]

Around here collectible ammo seems to be a hobby that is running it's course.
There is very little antique ammo on the tables these days. I can always put them in my antique ammo collection

[mike britton]

Wow!
Just dumped a load of brass outa my tumbler and look what came up!
I am realizing that the last time I was reloading was about the time my wife passed away.
Obviously, I was seriously distracted! I think what I need to do is STOP and clean and reorganize my reloading stuff before I go any farther.
I have changed work desks since last I reloaded so I need to rig a mount for my press anyway...

It's amazing how even exercises you have done most of your adult life can be interrupted and confused.

[mike britton]

So far, I have 74 rounds of nice brass to load and will have more as soon as I can find my kinetic hammer! LOL
Since the only .45/70's I now own are a nice 1886 Trapdoor and a #1 Rolling Block I don't need to resize but once and I don't need to mark my brass, but there is always the possibility of finding a Handi-Rifle so....How do you guys mark your brass so you know what rifle it is for?
Would a sharpie stay on the brass long enough?

[LenH]

A sharpie will stay on the brass through about 3 cleanings. Some of my Bullseye buddies will mark the base of their brass with different color sharpies.
If one of their brass misses the brass catcher and one of the other guys picks it up, the remark will be, 'I wish you wouldn't put that x on the base of the brass
it makes it too hard to clean it off the brass so I can use it.' All while handing them that piece of brass back.

[mike britton]

Great! I can even write load info on that big .45/70 brass!
I can run the brass through the full length dies and then mark the brass for each rifle.
Since they are single shots I won't have to resize for several cycles.
I use the same 30gr. of 3031 for both rifles so there isn't a lot of pressure here.
I'm not super concerned about accuracy, I have .22 target rifles for that.
It's just fun to go out and bang away with the big guys once in awhile.
You show up at the range with a rolling block and a trap door you always draw a crowd!

[PositiveCaster]

...The big rolling block will stand some pretty stiff loads, and I have shot regular factory (28,000#) through it, but I don't like to poke the bear....

For the record, factory ammunition isn’t loaded to the SAAMI max of 28,000 CUP. The NRA tested commercial ammo and found the sample 405-grain SP load gave 1364 fps at 20,200 CUP. That’s more than 35% under the SAAMI max. BTW the 400/30.0/3031 load is very mild, Lyman lists a starting load for the Trapdoor with a 420-grain boolit of 34.0 grains 3031 giving 1161 fps at 11,100 CUP from a 24” test barrel.

While the 1886 RB may “stand” some stiff loads, soft 140-year-old steel may still eventually deform. Probably best to stick with trapdoor-level loads...but even that is confusing. Below are the pressures that different loading manuals consider maximum for the Trapdoor.

Lyman 18,000 cup
Speer 22,000
Hornady 25,000
Hodgdon 28,000

The Hodgdon max loads would be 55% overloads based on Lyman’s max pressure...




.

[mike britton]

One reason I backed off to 30gr. was that most all of my manuals showed a load somewhere around the middle -upper 30's. It goes bang well enough, makes it to 100 yards and I don't have to worry about cracking my beloved R/B.
Thanks all, Now that I am down to 2 single shot .45's my reloading has gotten much easier.

[thegatman]

I shoot a Trailboss load in mine. Works great.

[mike britton]

Update! Just picked up this little RemH&R Handi-Rifle in .45/70!
Working on getting some sights built up for it, and then I will have 3 single shot .45/70's I'm set!

[Ziptar]

My Nephew just bought a Trap Door, very excited, but can't find ammo. Well he can't find any at a price that would be considered reasonable. I make up a real nice load that replicates the original Trap Door loads for my Marlin 1895. I use a MP 462-420 PB mold that drops 405 gr solids @ .462 using range scrap and 13.0 gr of Trail Boss. I'd like to make him up some ammo. When I size these i size them at .458 for my Marlin but am unsure for his trap door. He's 900+ miles away from me, thought about sending him the stuff to slug it but, he's eager and that just adds to turn around time. I figure we can always do that later. I'd like to get 40 or so rounds on the way to him so in the interest of time...

Do the old Trap Door bore diameters run pretty large by design or from wear? I'm on the fence between leaving them as cast and pan lubing 40 or so just to get him shooting, sizing to .458, or another size, haven't laid eyes on it but I've got a .459 around here somewhere?

[Larry Gibson]

Trap doors run large by design. Actually since the cartridge was an arsenal design and being so it is the "norm". Its the commercial 45-70s that "run small".

I suggest you just lube the bullets "as cast" and load them that way. The original bullet design diameter (.459) was based on the concept of the bullets obturating (bumping up) to seal the bore. As we now know the best accuracy, even with BP loads, is to have the bullet diameter larger than groove diameter. The .462 of your "as cast" bullets should work fine in the TD.

[Ziptar]

Excellent! Thank You Larry.

[John Guedry]

Get a hollow base mold and it should expand "to fit". Lee makes a 405 gr. hollow base.