U.S. Colt Model 1895 New Navy British Proofed .38 Revolver 1904 Production

[varifleman]

Here for your perusal is my Colt New Navy Model 1895 .38 Long Colt serial number 225854 1904 production which after USN service received British proofs; maybe shipped to UK during WWI or a WWII British Purchasing Commission bought pistol? The butt is marked "U.S.N" with an anchor, ".38 D.A.", "S" in triangle, "No / 15 / 478 / J.L.S. / 225 / 854; 15478 is the Navy Property Number; J.L.S. is Lt J. L. Sticht USN inspector for Colt Model 1895 .38LC revolvers 1895-1904 and 225854 is the Colt Production serial number.
I have Buffalo Arms .38 Long Colt black powder ammo and wonder if I use that and/or smokeless .38 Long Colt ammo?


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[Der Gebirgsjager]

Very nice addition to any collection, and must have an interesting history. If only they could talk. My guess would be that it was acquired by the British in WW II, perhaps from U.S. Govt. storage, as they had gone out of general U.S. usage before then. It's very fortunate to be here, as so many of the weapons they were loaned were destroyed after the war.

DG

[varifleman]

Thanks DG; I've sent for the Colt Archives letter so that should provide some interesting information.

[rintinglen]

Does it have the .357 diameter bore or does it still have the older .365 bore? I have read that there are actually 3 "Official" bore diameters, the original .365, .3605 and .357 in the Army revolvers. I wonder if the navy guns had the 1896, 1901 and 1903 improvements.

[smkummer]

If the chambers have a “step” or visible constriction it may actually be chambered for 38 special. I believe the army 1903 model so marked were. See if a 38 special cartridge when inserting the bullet into the muzzle of the barrel stops before the brass case hits the barrel, if so, you have a .357 diameter barrel.

[Tatume]

Thanks DG; I've sent for the S&W Authenticity letter so that should provide some interesting information.

Very nice shooter. Did you mean to say "Colt Authenticity letter?"

[bedbugbilly]

Very nice! If the cylinder is straight bored and the bore is the larger .365 - then try using a hollow based boolit - a hollow base wadcutter should shoot fine as many use the HB wadcutter in .36 cap and ball revolvers with conversion cylinders - 38 Colt Long - and the bores on those are .375.

If it is the lager .365 bore - and you want to get serious about it - then you could ave Tom at Accurate cut you a heeled boolit design with say .367 drive bands. If you end up using a heeled boolit - Old West sells a collet crimp die and special shell holder for loading 38 Short/Long heeled boolits. I use it for loading .375 heeled boolits for my .36 cal C & B revolvers with conversion cylinders and it works slick.

Wit the shortage of things now - if you can't find HB wadcutters or wadcutter molds - take a look at an older Lee .358 or similar wadcutter mold and see if you can't have someone with the right tools, convert it into a hollow base mold by drilling a base pin hole and making a base pin for it.

That should be a fun and good shooting pistol. I have always wanted one of the older Army or Navy versions in 38 with the larger .365 bore. The closest thing I have to it is a Colt Army Special made in 1910 but of course that was made in 38 Spl. and has a .357 bore - a good shooting pistol - 6" barrel.

If the bore is .357, you will of course be all set. I enjoy loading the 38 Colt Short or Long and with a standard .358 boolit, a Lee seton dies works good. When I load them with a heeled boolit, I use a combination the Lee dies and crimp with the Old West collet crimp die/special shell holder.

[varifleman]

Very nice shooter. Did you mean to say "Colt Authenticity letter?"
Yes; corrected; usually takes 2-3 months to get letter.

[varifleman]

So if i want to shoot this pistol should I use this Buffalo Arms 278269.38 Long Colt Black Powder ammo which I already have and which chambers perfectly in the cylinder; .38 S&W smokeless ammo or what?278287

[varifleman]

I don't have a micrometer right now but will get one to mike the bore. The London Proof marks on the barrel in photo one seems to indicate it's chambered chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge which happens to be .38" in diameter and .767" long ( .38" identifies the caliber; .767" identifies the length of the .38 S&W cartridge case; 4 tons per square inch pressure). This Brit/200 ammo which should be same as standard S&W .38 ammo does not chamber in this pistol.
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[rintinglen]

The 38 Colt ammo you have should work perfectly. The 38/200-38 S&W Ammo should not chamber. Both Lyman and Rapine made molds appropriate for your gun, but as to whether you can find one now, I can only say good luck. However, Accurate molds makes a heeled design, the 37-149H which is made for your gun.
Unless you do have the .357 diameter bore, in which case any 38 special Boolits sized appropriately will work, and so will 38 special brass cut down proper length—~1.03”.

[varifleman]

Thanks Rintinglen for the advise. I also have this Buffalos black powder cartridge pistol loaded ammunition in caliber 38 Special using a round nose, flat point, 125 grain bullet which also chambers perfectly in this pistol. I'll probably just stick with the .38 Long Colt BP ammo since I have a few 50-round boxes of that ammo. Since this pistol is 1904 production I assume it can also handle smokeless ammo such as this Ultramax Cowboy Action .38 Special.

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[rintinglen]

It should be OK with any 38 load that is not plus P, if they will chamber. It is my understanding that some of the very last production of the Military Army Specials had proper throats in the cylinder, but most did not. Those black powder rounds should work just fine.

[Thumbcocker]

Please post a range report if you shoot it.

[junkbug]

What are the chances the British reamed the cylinder to accept their standard (WWII) service cartridge. I would do a chamber cast, or six.

[rintinglen]

What are the chances the British reamed the cylinder to accept their standard (WWII) service cartridge. I would do a chamber cast, or six.

Pretty near zero, given that the OP reported 38 S&W did not chamber. A chamber cast in this case would be a complete waste of time.

[varifleman]

Here's the shipping info:

[varifleman]

I found that this smokeless .38 Special ammo will chamber in this revolver; is it safe to shoot in this old warhorse?
ArmscorPrecision - 38 Special - 158gr - FMJ -
Caliber: 38SPL
Bullet Type: FMJ
Grain Weight: 158gr
Velocity FPS: 891

[Walks]

My experience with Philippine ammo is Very Poor.
I stick with American made ammo, or "Fiocci"*
DWM/RWS or Norma.
Certainly wouldn't try armscor in a Heritage find such as yours.
If your interested ? PM me and I'll send you some loading data from the Hodgdon Cowboy Action Pamphlet dated 1/03.
For .38 Long Colt.

[rintinglen]

I found that this smokeless .38 Special ammo will chamber in this revolver; is it safe to shoot in this old warhorse?
ArmscorPrecision - 38 Special - 158gr - FMJ -
Caliber: 38SPL
Bullet Type: FMJ
Grain Weight: 158gr
Velocity FPS: 891

This might be a little too much. I would steer clear of Jacketed bullets and stick with lead at a lower velocity. They were made with a 150 grain boolit at 750 FPS in mind, and Colt did not begin heat treating their firearms until 1908 or thereabouts when the Army required it for the 1909 Revolvers in 45 Colt. While I doubt that it would blow the gun up, I am sure it will wear things out a lot faster.

[robertbank]

After the forcing cone on my New Navy .41LC cracked my gunsmith put a .357 barrel on the frame and added a 38Long cylinder . I now use light 38spl cartridges in the gun. My gun's frame was made before 1898 which makes it an Antique up here. According to our Criminal Code of Canada an "Antique" firearm is not a Firearm" and does not fall under the grasp of our stupid Firearms Act. My gun is now virtually identical to the OP's.

To the OP you got a great shooter there. Those old guns shot a lot of mercury based primers, aiong with thin forcing cones it is pretty easy to crack the forcing cone if the timing is a bit off.

While mine is very accurate with the new barrel the barrel does lead up due to the large cylinder throats. I will be getting a heel based bullet mold made as suggested above.

Great acquisition.

Take Care

Bob

[Ajohns]

I've done mine both ways.
I put a slugged, .357 barrel on mine. The original was .362 by my measurement. The chambers, bored straight through are .380.
For the .357 barrel I chose to use .357 Maximum brass, shortened by about .100. They fit flush in the cylinder. Seat the boolit flush with the case mouth, and there's really no mismatch of measurements.
3grs of Titegroup is what I used for a 145gr. pill.
But, I think I will put the .362 barrel back on and try heeled. Just kind of want to try it the way it was intended. To the OP, you have a very nice piece there for sure!

[varifleman]

Thanks for the useful advice; I got this ammo for use in such modern reproductions as the Colt Mason conversion revolver chambered in .38 Special which I assume can handle such ammo
with no problems.