Big bore wadcutters

[Rick R]

Perusing NOE’s webstore and he has wadcutter molds for both .434” and .452” guns.
I’ve decided to throttle back some of my target loads and I always liked the nice clean holes in paper the .38 HBWC leaves.

I’m thinking real hard about the 454-251-WC-AC5 mold in my .45 Colt Blackhawk

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/shop/452-454/454-251-wc-ac5/454-251-wc-ac5-4-cavity-pb/?attribute_pa_dfp=dni-dfp&attribute_pa_mw-sl=dni-mwandsl

Does anyone have any thoughts, experience or guidance shooting beer can shaped boolits?

[boatswainsmate]

I make the Lyman 454309 for plinking in my Schofield copy. It works great with the shorter 45 Colt cylinder. HS6 is my favorite powder with these. Happy Shooting! Boats
https://i.ibb.co/hMw5zSP/DSCN4447.jpg (https://ibb.co/1njVWkD)

[cas]

I've used and prefer the ogival wad cutter.

http://photos.imageevent.com/cas6969/shmisc/websize/E2714772-8AE0-4056-8BE6-A0C02A137182.jpeg

Odd how the internet works. I searched Google for a picture of one. And I found this one... looks familiar, oh it was taken on my loading bench. Posted by me on another forum, I only have the vaguest recollection of. lol

[rbuck351]

I have loaded .452 200 gr swc backwards and shot them in a Ballister Molina 1911 sorta. I use them in NRA 50' indoor target shooting. They shot very well and made nice clean round holes and to my surprise they fed fine. Never shot any real wadcutters in the 45 but they should work just fine.

[stubshaft]

I've used and prefer the ogival wad cutter.

http://photos.imageevent.com/cas6969/shmisc/websize/E2714772-8AE0-4056-8BE6-A0C02A137182.jpeg


I've shot a lot of them out of my Bisley Flat=top 44 Special.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Rick R, I’ve got that mould, and a few other big bores full wadcutters.

In general I’m a fan of wadcutters in all pistol calibers. In my view the wadcutter is the preferred boolit for handgun use. The maximum meplat means maximum hole diameter in paper targets, maximum energy transfer to steel targets and maximum killing power on things that need killin with a handgun (felons could be an example).

The big meplat means they are the least aerodynamic of boolits and hence shed velocity quickly in air (and in critters which is why they are so effective). So their range is limited to shorter distances...like handgun ranges.

Very few of mine are low powered “target” loads. Mine are mostly driven from mid-range to full throttle.

As to the NOE multi-lube groove design, it’s good enough, but I prefer a single large lube groove. Accurate Molds is my favorite mould maker. He can modify anything in his existing catalog, make you a new design, or his catalog is chock full of good designs. If you see some design you like in say 41 caliber, you can have it made to 45 caliber.

But really if you get the NOE mould you’ll find it’ll be high quality and make you some good wadcutters. I highly encourage it.

[NuJudge]

I would like to shoot such bullets in a .45 acp 25-2 that has .455" throats. Where would I go to find starting load data?

[gwpercle]

The NOE 413-215-WC (413432) is an accuracy champ in the 41 Special / 41 Magnum loads .

It's based on Lyman's 358432 design with a few improvements and bumped up to large bore '
I have the NOE moulds in both .358 and .413 ... I am pretty sure they make a 44 and 45 version of that design ... It's a real winner and you might want to look at it ... if you like accuracy !
Gary

[Rick R]

The NOE 413-215-WC (413432) is an accuracy champ in the 41 Special / 41 Magnum loads .

It's based on Lyman's 358432 design with a few improvements and bumped up to large bore '
I have the NOE moulds in both .358 and .413 ... I am pretty sure they make a 44 and 45 version of that design ... It's a real winner and you might want to look at it ... if you like accuracy !
Gary


It looks like this?

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/452-454/454-264-wc-bl5/

And this?

https://noebulletmolds.com/site/product-category/432/432-237-wc-bl4/

Are you crimping with the boolit completely inside the case like .38 full wadcutter ammo?
Right now I’m teetering toward something like the .432-237-wc as I own four .44 guns and only one .45 Colt.
But the .45 would make satisfyingly big holes in paper (kinda the definition of “overkill”)

[osteodoc08]

The NOE 413-215-WC (413432) is an accuracy champ in the 41 Special / 41 Magnum loads .

It's based on Lyman's 358432 design with a few improvements and bumped up to large bore '
I have the NOE moulds in both .358 and .413 ... I am pretty sure they make a 44 and 45 version of that design ... It's a real winner and you might want to look at it ... if you like accuracy !
Gary

What kind of load, velocity and distance are you shooting at?

[murf205]

278221278222

Doc, Tom at Accurate Molds just made this mold and added it to his catalogue. It is an ogival nose w/c and it makes nice clean cut holes in the target. I think it would ventilate just about any critter you stuck it in as well. Mine is a 3 cavity and , as usual, it started dropping boolits perfectly right out of the box.

[murf205]

I would like to shoot such bullets in a .45 acp 25-2 that has .455" throats. Where would I go to find starting load data?

You can order the mold and specify that it has cavities in whatever diameter you need. Accurate molds states in his instruction for ordering molds, that they will -usually- drop .002 over what you order. In other words +.002, and minus 0. I believe NOE does the same.278224 This is the same boolit I posted previously but with powder coating.

[Rick R]

278221278222

Doc, Tom at Accurate Molds just made this mold and added it to his catalogue. It is an ogival nose w/c and it makes nice clean cut holes in the target.

Until you and #CAS mentioned “ogival wadcutters” I’d never heard of them. They are a Really Wide Flatnose boolit? What I had in mind to begin with is a classic full caliber wadcutter at about 850fps solely for puncturing paper, cardboard or small game. I have molds for the .44 265gr NOE style Ranchdog and .45-270SAA to shoot big game, I’m looking for a simpler design that is obviously not “the usual” when I pull a loaded cartridge out of my pocket while at the range or afield.

The two styles I have shoot very well (I have two of the .44 Ranchdogs already).
I’m exploring simple target boolits. Interested to hear if the Really Wide Flatnosed are more accurate than true wadcutters.

I find it interesting that I haven’t found a big bore hollow base wadcutter mold too.

[osteodoc08]

Good looking bullet murf. What kind of velocity are you getting out of the ACP

[smkummer]

Lyman’s 454424 Keith bullet makes sharp holes as well. It’s a multi functional bullet that doesn’t have to be loaded full power every time.

[Nueces]

I find it interesting that I haven’t found a big bore hollow base wadcutter mold too.

We ran a group buy for 44 and 45 HBWC moulds a while back, from mp-molds.com He may still have some in stock.

[USSR]

We ran a group buy for 44 and 45 HBWC moulds a while back, from mp-molds.com He may still have some in stock.

I bought the MP .45 HBWC mould and sold my NOE 454-251-WC-AC5 mould.

Don

[nhithaca]

https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=272&zenid=reb2so06nhv3v49bruvf22in86

I bought some of these (quite soft) and I think they would work good loaded hollow base down into the case for oversize throats. He also makes 32, 38 & 44 bullets in the same style. Loaded some (very light load & hollow point forward) in 45ACP for a Charter Arms revolver and they shot very well. Next going to try some in a 45/410 Taurus Judge which has way over size throats (like 0.456" or so).

[RJM52]

Only wadcutter mold I have for my .41s is from MP... Can be used as a HB-WC, solid WC or a HP-WC....total versatility.

They can be purchased from Matt's Bullets to try before you buy a mold...



Two other hole-punch type bullets I've been using are the Accurate 41-215V and 41-250F. Bought the 215V first and was so happy with the performance I asked if he sould add a second lube groove and base...and the 250F came to be... Have shot them with everything from 8.0 grains of Unique to 22.0 grains of H110 and are very very accurate out past 100 yards... Punches nice round holes even at distance...no yawing at all... The same design is available in .429 and .452...

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=41-215V

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=41-215VG

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=41-250F

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=41-250FG



Friend liked my molds so much he bought the .429 version..

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-235V

[murf205]

Good looking bullet murf. What kind of velocity are you getting out of the ACP

I have not clocked them but I shot them out of a friends Hi Point carbine and they feed like a charm in it. IIRC the load was 6 grs of Unique. When they hit the cardboard target backer, they sound like someone beating the dust out of a rug with a tennis racket! I'd hate to be on the receiving end of one of them. When Tom came up with that boolit, I asked him if he could make one of his 270V molds in a 250-255 gr and he tweaked a little here and there and sent me a drawing. I ordered it pronto. It's a 253 gr with range lead and 2% tin.

I must give credit to cas for the "ogival wadcutter" term. I never heard that design referred to in that manner but I pirated it. Thanks cas.

[stubshaft]

I'm pretty sure that Veral Smith of LBT was the one who coined the term Ogival Wadcutter.

[SOFMatchstaff]

I have loaded .452 200 gr swc backwards and shot them in a Ballister Molina 1911 sorta. I use them in NRA 50' indoor target shooting. They shot very well and made nice clean round holes and to my surprise they fed fine. Never shot any real wadcutters in the 45 but they should work just fine.

This!
I load what I call the "boat tail wad cutter", H&G 200gr and the collar button 185gr in 45 Colt over 5 gr of Red Dot and shot them for years in PPC competition before I got a suitable 38. They cut a fist size hole in a B-27 , and made scoring a real grumbler. The speed loaders were a bit testy but I worked with it.. Had a ball.... shooting rabbits between Alamo and Lund before it was a paved road. Good times..

[USSR]

https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=272&zenid=reb2so06nhv3v49bruvf22in86

I bought some of these (quite soft) and I think they would work good loaded hollow base down into the case for oversize throats. He also makes 32, 38 & 44 bullets in the same style. Loaded some (very light load & hollow point forward) in 45ACP for a Charter Arms revolver and they shot very well. Next going to try some in a 45/410 Taurus Judge which has way over size throats (like 0.456" or so).

That's from the MP .45 HBWC mould.

Don

[murf205]

I'm pretty sure that Veral Smith of LBT was the one who coined the term Ogival Wadcutter.

I think you are correct, and who can argue with him. I like the concept of that boolit because of the way it is "thought" to enter the forcing cone but I'm not going to get that started here because it probably needs a whole 'nother thread.

[Alferd Packer]

I have an old LEE 225 grain 2 cavity wadcutter mould in .454 size.
It really shoots well from my Smith an Wesson .45 colt pistol with adj sights and six inch barrel.
The cylinder holes were .456 and it shot patterns with .452 bullets, but shoots well with the bigger bullets.

[ShooterAZ]

I use the accurate 43-210W in my 5-1/2" 44 Blackhawk. 6.0 grains of Bullseye is a very accurate and pleasant load to shoot. Whether it's shooting at bulleyes or bunnies, it's a winner in my book.

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-210W

[Rick R]

I use the accurate 43-210W in my 5-1/2" 44 Blackhawk. 6.0 grains of Bullseye is a very accurate and pleasant load to shoot. Whether it's shooting at bulleyes or bunnies, it's a winner in my book.

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-210W

Interesting boolit. Are you sizing it with lube, shooting as cast with LLA or PCing it?

[Drm50]

I shoot WCs out of all my S&W revolvers, except one 25-5 tuned for 250gr RNFP cast and the 57s 41mgs. I got no 41 WC. I don’t like 41s anyway. Bought the HBWC 44 mold and havent used it yet.
The WCs in 44sp, 44mg and 45Colt besides being accurate work good on deer under 50yds.

[ShooterAZ]

Interesting boolit. Are you sizing it with lube, shooting as cast with LLA or PCing it?

I am sizing it with a Lee push through sizer, and very lightly lubing it with thinned LLA.

[Rick R]

I am sizing it with a Lee push through sizer, and very lightly lubing it with thinned LLA.

I don’t have any Accurate molds, I may give that one a try.

[Thin Man]

I got in with USSR on the MP 45 WCHB group buy. I found these casts drop at .457" which is correct for Webley revolvers. Back in the day they were known as the "manstopper" load. Beyond that they can easily be sized down to match the throats of most 45 Colt cylinders. At a cast weight of 230 gr. this makes these boolits very versatile.

[arlon]

I have a LEE mould that might be 410190 WC but the mould is not marked. Sort of a button nose wadcutter. I got it and promptly sold all of my 41 guns. Recently got another Black Hawk in .41 so may now actually get to use it.

[RJM52]

arlon just reminded me that I have a 165 Lee WC mold I got from a friend who I believe got it on a group buy here...

Just loaded up some in a .41 Special case with 6.5 grains of Unique...was just over 1000 fps if I recall correctly...

[osteodoc08]

arlon just reminded me that I have a 165 Lee WC mold I got from a friend who I believe got it on a group buy here...

Just loaded up some in a .41 Special case with 6.5 grains of Unique...was just over 1000 fps if I recall correctly...

That’s perfect for the 41 Spec. That’s what velocity I shoot mostly in the 41 Maggies with 210-220gr cast with 7gr 231. My go to for decades. I could only imagine the lighter weight

[charlie b]

Back when I had a Ruger BH in .45LC I was shooting 255 SWC's loaded hot. I came across an article about a guide in Africa that preferred the .45 BH as his back up gun. He made his own bullets. Hard cast cylinders long enough to reach the front of the cylinders with the proper amount of powder behind them (a lot :) ). They were something like 300 or 310gn (?). The performance was such that he had used it on lions and had complete penetration length wise.

[Dale53]

I have cast a LOT of bullets in practically every general design available through the years. I have modern MP molds, NOE, etc. and well as far back as H&G, as well as Lyman and RCBS, etc.

In my view, Hollow Base molds were developed by the ammo factories so that they would work well in a variety of throat sizes and bore sizes in different makers revolvers. Since I have pretty much standardized on bullet size needed (and reamed revolver throats to optimum size where needed), I have had excellent results with the solid base wadcutters. That includes double ended as well as button nose. I am talking group size off a bench (both off sandbags and using a Ransom Rest) that will give me 1" groups or better at 25 yards. I do not need, nor want, to put up with the complexity of casting bullets in a hollow base mold when I can get those results with a solid base and cast perfect bullets at twice the rate with a multicavity solid base mold as compared to a hollow base mold. I am quite willing to put up with the extra work and time casting hollow points where needed because they serve a real need. Further, I don't need many hollow points in day to day shooting.

Since I have no problem getting the accuracy I need with solid bases, the ease or production, far exceeds any perceived need for me.

Of course, that is just me.

Over the years, I have shot a LOT (typically two and three times a week) and thousands of rounds annually over many, many years. I demand excellent home cast bullets, but ease of manufacture is quite important too!

Just a thought or two...
Dale53

[Jtarm]

I've used and prefer the ogival wad cutter.

http://photos.imageevent.com/cas6969/shmisc/websize/E2714772-8AE0-4056-8BE6-A0C02A137182.jpeg

Odd how the internet works. I searched Google for a picture of one. And I found this one... looks familiar, oh it was taken on my loading bench. Posted by me on another forum, I only have the vaguest recollection of. lol

This.

I prefer plain to hollow base so I don’t have to worry about the skirt tearing. I don’t believe they’re any more accurate than PB.

[USSR]

I don’t believe they’re any more accurate than PB.

There are a lot of Bullseye shooters shooting at 50 yard targets that would disagree.

Don

[Jtarm]

There are a lot of Bullseye shooters shooting at 50 yard targets that would disagree.

Don

And just as many who would agree.

[USSR]

And just as many who would agree.

Go to https://www.bullseyeforum.net/, and then come back and name them. The bullseye community as a whole embraces the HBWC for accuracy.

Don