Cast 5.56/.223 AR-15 load testing video

[Wolfdog91]

Finally got the video up. Lemme know what y'all think.


https://youtu.be/bDV6dfY1aZs

[Thumbcocker]

Really enjoy your videos. I think you are chasing velocity a little too hard. 2000 to 2200 fps is easier to get in my experience. I would suggest 4895. I have had good luck with it and conventionally lubes boolits in AR's.

[tomme boy]

Skip the ball powders if you want accuracy over speeds.

[Wolfdog91]

Skip the ball powders if you want accuracy over speeds.

So would a flake powder be better or stick ? Because the only stick I think I have is varget

[Wolfdog91]

Really enjoy your videos. I think you are chasing velocity a little too hard. 2000 to 2200 fps is easier to get in my experience. I would suggest 4895. I have had good luck with it and conventionally lubes boolits in AR's. thank you very much and glad you like them ! I'm honestly after accuracy more than anything, just trying loads that are supposed to group well. Elvis ammo on youtube mention using bother these and he was getting nice groups and figured I'd try. The high velocity is just a plus lol.

[Thumbcocker]

Outpost 75 mentioned Reloaded 7. Do a search for his posts for details. I would absolutely trust his recommendations.

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[Thumbcocker]

Outpost 75 reccomend Reloader 7. If you search you will find the specifics. I would absolutely trust his recommendations. If I had varget I would give it a try. I used 4895 because it downloads well and was designed for gas operated guns.

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[Garyshome]

What boolit mold are you using?

[sigep1764]

Good write up, good info. Keep it going.

[oldcanadice]

Good video. Thumbs up on youtube.

[Calamity Jake]

Stay with the 2015 add a dacron filler it will almost do away with the unburnt powder and improve groups.
I shoot a Rock River AR with 24" heavy stainless 1-12 twist using NOE 70gr RN with 17.5 of 2015 and dacron
Groups are 1 1/4" at 100 don't know the velocity. If I can I will post a pic of the target.

277726

[Wolfdog91]

What boolit mold are you using?

The lee 55gr .225 six cavity


https://youtu.be/wZzsW-FIpHY

[Wolfdog91]

Stay with the 2015 add a dacron filler it will almost do away with the unburnt powder and improve groups.
I shoot a Rock River AR with 24" heavy stainless 1-12 twist using NOE 70gr RN with 17.5 of 2015 and dacron
Groups are 1 1/4" at 100 don't know the velocity. If I can I will post a pic of the target.

277726

Dacron :???::???: Hmmmm I'm be seen black powder guys do something similar as far as powder compression, you happen to have a link to where I can get some ?

[tomme boy]

Old pillow. Do your research before you do it. Easy way to make a plug and blow your gun up. I have tried it in several cartridges and is just too much trouble. It is better to find a powder that does not need it. Rl7 and 4198 works perfect for cast in 223

Your varget will work fine. Start at 18gr and go up to whatever it maxes out at for jacketed. But you should find a load that shoots well down low.

[Calamity Jake]

Dacron :???::???: Hmmmm I'm be seen black powder guys do something similar as far as powder compression, you happen to have a link to where I can get some ?

Its pillow stuffing, you can get it at walmart notions dept as a stuffing or in ½" thick sheet which is what I use, I cut the sheet into ½" squares making cubes
its just the right amount for the 223 with 17-20 of 2015.
DON'T pack it you want it be loose just so it holds the powder in place.
I push into the case just below case mouth then let the boolit push into place.
The exact amount of dacron is not important as long as it fills the airspace.
There is a lot of info here about dacron fillers, just do a search.

[tomme boy]

You want to weigh the Dacron just like powder to have the best results. 1.2grs was what shot best for me in 308win. 223 should be half that . You don't want to use too much either.

I used to use old dog toys for my dacron

[phil3333]

Finally got the video up. Lemme know what y'all think.


https://youtu.be/bDV6dfY1aZs

I enjoy your youtube channel stick with it

[mroliver77]

Dacron :???::???: Hmmmm I'm be seen black powder guys do something similar as far as powder compression, you happen to have a link to where I can get some ?

It is usually all over my floor. I have a 21 month old Lab female that lives to "liberate" Dacron from stuffed animals!

[popper]

Watch vid, observe barrel 'smoke', mostly lead as you increase fps.

[guy_with_boolits]

I compiled this a few months ago from various cast AR posts on here and elsewhere....would be interesting to know if any of your tests have been similar:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?405422-The-cast-223-5-56-for-AR-load-data-compilation-thread

There are several entries for fast twist 1:7...could we add what you've done so far here?

https://i.postimg.cc/xTD87Q6Y/Untitled.jpg

[Rizzo]

WD91,
Thanks for taking the time to make that video and posting it here.
I enjoyed watching it.

I've been down that road with the Lee 225 mold myself.
I was shooting at 75 yards though and had larger groupings.
This was with an AR15 1:9 twist.

Some groupings were so large that all of them were not on paper.
I was shooting around 2600-2700 fps though and was advised here to slo-o-ow them down, which I did.
My groupings did improve but ultimately I was spending so much time on it with results I was not happy with.

I tried various powders (748, BLC-2, IMR 4227, and 4064) and never really got the groupings I was hoping for.
I even did weight sorting to help improve things.

My objective was to get similar (better?) groupings than factory or jacketed reloaded ammo.
For plinking at 50 yards, cast bullets (for me) would be fine. But if I wanted to shoot some steel at 100 yds, forget it.
I can do that with jacketed reloads.
I went back to jacketed bullets and got better results at higher fps.

Thanks again for your fine video.
I'll check out your other youtube flics.

[Rizzo]

WD91
I went to Youtube to check out your other videos and could not find them.
I searched using WolfDog91 and no go.

I ultimately found your stuff under the handle The Black Trapper.
The universe is back in balance now. (grin)

I'll check'em out.

[Dimner]

Stay with the 2015 add a dacron filler it will almost do away with the unburnt powder and improve groups.
I shoot a Rock River AR with 24" heavy stainless 1-12 twist using NOE 70gr RN with 17.5 of 2015 and dacron
Groups are 1 1/4" at 100 don't know the velocity. If I can I will post a pic of the target.

277726

woah! excellent results! :-D

[Dimner]

The problem I have with going down the Dacron route is two fold.

1) will the Dacron foul the barrel at all? or is it incinerated instantly?

2) I want to load 556 for CMP High power shooting formats. Typically I shoot around 125 or more rounds a week, and well over 1400 a season. I am really hoping there is a way that doesnt include measuring 1400 Dacron wads.


However, with my 30 cals, Dacron has been great for hunting loads that I have been playing around with. But I only need a few dozen hunting loads.

[VariableRecall]

I'm loving your videos dude! Keep them up!

[CraigOK]

Is dacron a concern for the gas tube?

[35remington]

No it is not. At the pressures used and powders employed the Dacron does not melt. Instead it is broken into shorter fibers and is slightly scorched.

Dacron filler does not need to be weighed. Just an appropriate amount separated, lofted, and placed in the case occupying all volume between powder and bullet.

Said by a guy who has used a lot of it.

[Rizzo]

WD91,
Were you using gas checks with those boolits?

[tomme boy]

Dacron filler does not need to be weighed

In a 223 case it does matter.

It doesn't matter till it does! One of my favorite quotes

[Larry Gibson]

I've fired thousands of 223s with dacron filler inumerousARs, M16s and other gas guns since the mid '70s without any dacron fouling. Never bothered to weigh any dacron filler. Did it ever matter, nope.

I no longer load cast in 7-9" twist 223 ARs as I shoot farther than 50 yards and prefer the action to function reliably and the load hold at least 3 moa accuracy with 10 shots at 200 yards. Thus I use a 70 gr cast at 2300 fps out of my 12" twist AR, bolt guns and Contender.

[35remington]

I’ve never found weighing Dacron to matter in 223/556 either. Nor in anything else I’ve used it in.

The whole point is to eliminate velocity variation from partially filled cases which cause variations in pressure and cycling reliability when run at the low end which is where the easily found accuracy occurs. Accuracy is a relative thing, but 3 MOA for five shots suits my purposes. I can do a little better than that without specializing anything and maintaining a decent production rate.

I very much doubt I can do that for ten shots at 200 but that is not what these are for. Larry is more exacting than I am but I’m okay with that.

What I am looking for is cycle reliability and reasonable accuracy to enable good practice ammo. When so loaded I am in the 1900-2000 fps range with a 60 odd grain bullet. When zeroed at 200 yards with M193 equivalent such velocities are essentially “on” or close enough at 100 yards, which suits my purposes just fine.

If less fuss and bother with good enough accuracy is the goal abandon the idea of high speed in the usual 1-7 to 1-9 twist AR’s and run the guns gently. The ballistics are still fine for the most common usage for me which is familiarization and practice. A side benefit is you’ll have a much harder time wearing a barrel.

Someday if the hoplophobes get their way that might be important....and it is probably somewhat important now.

[tomme boy]

I am getting 1.5" groups at 100yds with my AR 16" with a 1-7 twist at 2664fps. Probably better if I sorted the brass and sorted the bullets for defects. I have a 4'' steel plate at 200 yes I can hit every shot with it. 20.2gr imr4198. 65gr miha bullet. Gator copper check sized to 0.225" powder coated

[guy_with_boolits]

I am getting 1.5" groups at 100yds with my AR 16" with a 1-7 twist at 2664fps. Probably better if I sorted the brass and sorted the bullets for defects. I have a 4'' steel plate at 200 yes I can hit every shot with it. 20.2gr imr4198. 65gr miha bullet. Gator copper check sized to 0.225" powder coated

damn thats nice a few questions please
-what alloy
-any BHN info on alloy
-what powder coat powder and procedure? (water quench?)
-how did the action work? any failures?
-any leading in gas system or barrel?
-what length gas system?

This is awesome, I may try to copy this and see how it goes

[tomme boy]

Virgin lino. Traffic purple from Smoke. One coat powder coat. Seated 2.247" to fit mags. 41 CCI primer. Carbine gas. Standard buffer.

Wilson Arms stainless barrel 223 wylde chamber.

[Jniedbalski]

Nice video . Looking forward to seeing more

[Dieselhorses]

I've fired thousands of 223s with dacron filler inumerousARs, M16s and other gas guns since the mid '70s without any dacron fouling. Never bothered to weigh any dacron filler. Did it ever matter, nope.

I no longer load cast in 7-9" twist 223 ARs as I shoot farther than 50 yards and prefer the action to function reliably and the load hold at least 3 moa accuracy with 10 shots at 200 yards. Thus I use a 70 gr cast at 2300 fps out of my 12" twist AR, bolt guns and Contender.

How long is the 70 gr cast bullet? Don't wanna open a "can of worms" about twist rate but I was under the impression that heavier gr bullets required faster twist although the longer the bullet, the better it stabilizes in slower twist. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Wolfdog91]

Wow happy to see my little post took off like it did lol. Guess it just took me actually shooting and not making the rounds and talking for 34min lol Thank u for all the kind words eveyone I'll try to respond to more of y'all ��. But all in all I think I'm in. The right track as I'm doing much better than alot if people said I would ! Hopefully the stuff I've ordered gets her in time and we can do a barrel cleaning video so see if their anything in other than in burnt powder

[Wolfdog91]

WD91,
Were you using gas checks with those boolits?

Sure am ! I fell the hard case gass check and PC give me a three layers effect ( little in the hard side for me to explain) that's gonna help with little project. Actually here the video I have in gas checking and sizing these same Boolits.
https://youtu.be/QyrDk2qQXc0

And for those curious I've made videos documenting my entire process from making my Ingots allll the way to shooting if your curious in how I did everything ��

[Wolfdog91]

WD91
I went to Youtube to check out your other videos and could not find them.
I searched using WolfDog91 and no go.

I ultimately found your stuff under the handle The Black Trapper.
The universe is back in balance now. (grin)

I'll check'em out.

Lol yep that's me ! And before anyone says anything about my channel name...look eveyone was thinking it I just decided to cahne it to that so people could find me easier lol ��

[guy_with_boolits]

Virgin lino. Traffic purple from Smoke. One coat powder coat. Seated 2.247" to fit mags. 41 CCI primer. Carbine gas. Standard buffer.

Wilson Arms stainless barrel 223 wylde chamber.

thanks I'm updating the database with entry 20, I think yours is now the best and most well documented 1:7 entry...how did the action cycle? and leading?

did you do any experiments without gas checks?

[Larry Gibson]

How long is the 70 gr cast bullet? Don't wanna open a "can of worms" about twist rate but I was under the impression that heavier gr bullets required faster twist although the longer the bullet, the better it stabilizes in slower twist. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Not home right now so can't give length but it is about the same as a 55 gr M193 bullet as I recall. Stabilizes fine in 12" twist, at least at 1900 - 2400 fps.

[tomme boy]

thanks I'm updating the database with entry 20, I think yours is now the best and most well documented 1:7 entry...how did the action cycle? and leading?

did you do any experiments without gas checks?

Cycled fine. No leading. And no I did not do any with no checks. If the bullet was designed for a check then it shoots much better if the check is on it. I also feel any bullet over 1700fps benefits with a check on it.

[tomme boy]

A lead bullet is usually shorter than a copper jacketed bullet of equal weight. That is why the 70gr bullet stabilizes in Larrys 12 twist. You can't use the same bullet weight spin ratios that are meant for jacketed on cast. They are close but not right.

[guy_with_boolits]

Cycled fine. No leading. And no I did not do any with no checks. If the bullet was designed for a check then it shoots much better if the check is on it. I also feel any bullet over 1700fps benefits with a check on it.

I meant more like other boolits

Thanks for this info. I collected alot of load data for cast AR but was never really inspired by any of it to try. But yours looks good. I just bought the MP mold and will be giving this a shot (pun intended) . I'd like to find a gas-check free load but maybe its good to have a gas-check version that is working well before I try that.

[Dieselhorses]

A lead bullet is usually shorter than a copper jacketed bullet of equal weight. That is why the 70gr bullet stabilizes in Larrys 12 twist. You can't use the same bullet weight spin ratios that are meant for jacketed on cast. They are close but not right.

Thanks that makes sense. Having a hard time etching this into my brain :killingpc

[44Blam]

Cool video, but that pup was not a happy camper...

[jessdigs]

.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210223/f6263ae4f90e0576a5f0737661534e22.jpg

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