Ruger American 45acp failure to extract

[kbstenberg]

I recently received the above handgun. I bought it new, it is not broken in yet. An it very prone to not fully extracting a fired case when i am using a trunkated cone bullet. The gun fires and extracts rounds when i use standard round nose bullets.
What happens when the gun is fired the slide starts to extract the case as it should. But when the lower edge of the case being extracted touches the bullet that is still in the magazine. The slide looses its grip on the spent case and continues rearward. Leaving the case mouth still in the chamber, the bottom edge of the spent case tight against the next round and the slide coming forward to feed the next live round (which it can't because of the spent case in the way.
The slide can release the spent round any time from when it touches the nose of the next round. Or when the spent round touches the ridge that starts decreasing the dia. of the new bullet. The second location is primarally where the case is released.
I have tried increasing the powder charge to near max., changing the LOAL. With no affect. Yes i used the plunk test and all loads passed. I have tried BE / Unique. I also have Promo, 2400, h110. But i don't think it is powder related. I am thinking mechanical.

[44MAG#1]

Is the extracting case hitting the case mouth on the cartridge in the magazine?
See if you can see a place on the case mouth of the round in the magazine that is next one into the chamber.

[contender1]

Does it do this each & every time a T/C bullet is used or just occasionally?
If I read this correctly,, the rear of the extracting case rim, hits the nose of the T/C bullet?
Does it do this with all magazines?

Maybe it does need to be broken in a bit more to overcome this.

[chutesnreloads]

Does it do it with a full magazine? How about with just one or two rounds in the mag?

[Dusty Bannister]

Perhaps the magazine is allowing the nose of the cartridge to be elevated too much. Try a different magazine. If you have no other 45 pistols, you probably would not recognize a normal presentation.

[Drm50]

There are a lot of pistols that don’t like TC type bullets. In fact a lot of rifles don’t like them.

[kbstenberg]

OK 1 out of 3 may complete a full extraction and a new round pushed into the chamber. the 2 others will have the case not fully extracted.
I only have the 2 magazines provided new.
It doesn't matter how full or empty the mag. is.
The case is dropped any time between when the case being ejected touches the next bullet and when the case comes in contact with the little lip where the bullet changes from full dia.

[rintinglen]

I would check the extractor to assure that it has sufficient strength and is properly cut. It is obvious that the new boolit is stripping the case from the extractor. Either because of the design of the gun and magazine, or else because of the extractor spring is weak, or the extractor itself is not right. If it is due to the design, you may find that those TC boolits will not ever work without magazine modification. If it is the extractor spring or the extractor itself, replacement of them should fix the problem.

[Petrol & Powder]

It sounds like the case head of the spent casing is catching on the case MOUTH of the live round of the top cartridge in the magazine.
I would take a look at the crimp on the loaded rounds.

[Dusty Bannister]

What is the mold number for the bullet you are shooting? Lee 452-230-TC or Lyman 452630 or something else?

[AndyC]

The type of bullet you're using is irrelevant - your extractor-tension isn't sufficient. The extractor is losing its grip on the case-rim, so it falls off.

[Dusty Bannister]

The type of bullet you're using is irrelevant - your extractor-tension isn't sufficient. The extractor is losing its grip on the case-rim, so it falls off.

Yet the RN works and the TC fails?

[Petrol & Powder]

Yet the RN works and the TC fails?

/\ my point exactly, If the extractor is flawed, then why doesn't the problem exist with all cartridges?

[Evoken]

I have the american compact in .45. I have similar issue with it going into battery and extraction. This is with swc and tc boolits that have a lip around the nose, such as the lee 452-230tc tumble lube. I also have trouble with this gun using the round nose lee tl boolit, it has the same flat spot where the boolit seats. I think the brass catches the round in the mag as it is extracted.

[lawdog941]

I would check the extractor to assure that it has sufficient strength and is properly cut. It is obvious that the new boolit is stripping the case from the extractor. Either because of the design of the gun and magazine, or else because of the extractor spring is weak, or the extractor itself is not right. If it is due to the design, you may find that those TC boolits will not ever work without magazine modification. If it is the extractor spring or the extractor itself, replacement of them should fix the problem.

+1, this is where the problem is at.

[Petrol & Powder]

Going by what the OP wrote, the gun functions with RN bullets. So, I'm reluctant to blame the extractor.
According to the OP, the spent casing is partially extracted. This sounds as if the case head is striking the mouth of the next cartridge in the magazine or maybe the shoulder of the front driving band of the bullet.

The Ruger American uses a long pivoting extractor, powered by a coil spring under the tail of the extractor. It's possible there is a burr or some debris under the extractor forward of the pivot that is preventing the extractor from getting a solid purchase on the cartridge rim. However, I am at a loss to understand how that couldn't effect the extractor when shooting RN bullets. I'm far more comfortable blaming that top cartridge in the magazine instead of the extractor.

[kbstenberg]

Rintinglen How would i check the extractor and or spring?
Should i take the barrel spring off of the barrel. Reinstall everything but the spring. Work the action by hand both with and without a mag and see what happens?
Evoken it looks like you and i are in the same boat. So i may just have to use a RN bullet that does not have a lip that is forward of the case mouth.
If that is the case i just may have to remelt the 1k bullets i made before the pistol purchase.

[Evoken]

Rintinglen How would i check the extractor and or spring?
Should i take the barrel spring off of the barrel. Reinstall everything but the spring. Work the action by hand both with and without a mag and see what happens?
Evoken it looks like you and i are in the same boat. So i may just have to use a RN bullet that does not have a lip that is forward of the case mouth.
If that is the case i just may have to remelt the 1k bullets i made before the pistol purchase.

Well that is a bummer to melt down perfect boolits. I still have to work on mine some as well, it is still fairly new and I don't think it's had 500 rounds through it yet. I'm hoping everything wears in at some point.
I am fortunate to have a few 1911's that will eat just about anything, so I don't have to melt any down.

If I come up with a solution for mine, I will let you know.
Ken

[kbstenberg]

Ok I was just experimenting with my pistol. I left out the spring on the barrel so i could work the action in slow motion by hand. I made 6 dummy rounds of RN without a step from the full body of the bullet to the rounding of the nose. I also only made 2 dummies of a trunkated nose with a major step down after the full dia. of the bullet.
I filled the magazine with all of the RN dummies. Working the slide by hand all rounds ejected like what they should. But The case being ejected made a major scratch through the PC of the next bullet in the magazine. Which would tend to lead me to believe the spring and ejector are working as they should.
Test 2 i put 2 of the Trunkated shells as the top 2 shells in the magazine. I repeatedly ran 1 RN bullet into the chamber using the slide as force into the chamber. I then ejected the shell over the TC bullet 6 times. An 6 times the shell ejected properly. An was not dropped by the ejector.
In these tests the shell being ejected had a bullet in the case. Tomorrow i am going to try using an empty case being ejected. I am just thinking that a case without a bullet weighs a lot less than a loaded one. An that mite be why the shell case is being released by the extractor.

[rintinglen]

You can try placing a small spacer of aluminum under the extractor spring to increase the tension on the extractor, and then using your dummy TC rounds slowly retract the slide and try to see what is catching on the round being withdrawn from the chamber. With a magnifying glass, care fully examine the extractor to see what the edge looks like that engages the cartridge case. It should be sharp, not rounded off.

[AndyC]

/\ my point exactly, If the extractor is flawed, then why doesn't the problem exist with all cartridges?
An interesting question to which I'd like to know too - the fact that it's occurring didn't escape my notice, but you tell me; he could be using a completely different brand of case with a thinner rim in the TCs (as one example) for all we know.

There's way too little info mentioned to perform a comparative analysis, but looking at the specific issue facing us, the case is falling off the extractor, so solve that issue.

[Petrol & Powder]

I agree we lack information. But before I started filing, bending, replacing parts, etc. - I would want to eliminate all of those variables.

If the gun functions perfectly with one type of cartridge, I don't think I would say the GUN is the problem.

[AndyC]

I would - I wouldn't want a pistol that's reliable with solely one type of cartridge.

[Petrol & Powder]

Then find another cartridge, or two, or three, that will run in your pistol. Just because the gun chokes on one cartridge doesn't mean the PISTOL is broken.
If the gun functions on 2 dozen different types of cartridges but will not function with one type, I wouldn't label the gun as defective and start modifying the gun.

[onelight]

Then find another cartridge, or two, or three, that will run in your pistol. Just because the gun chokes on one cartridge doesn't mean the PISTOL is broken.
If the gun functions on 2 dozen different types of cartridges but will not function with one type, I wouldn't label the gun as defective and start modifying the gun.
I agree it's not unusual for semi autos to have a preference on bullets style , Feedum what they like :) as long as they feed the bullet styles that do what you need . Several folks here have mentioned XD 45s don't like SWC bullets. That is why many of us that load for multiple 45s like RN boolits.

[AndyC]

Then find another cartridge, or two, or three, that will run in your pistol. Just because the gun chokes on one cartridge doesn't mean the PISTOL is broken.
Ah, but you're moving the goal-posts there:

1) - he doesn't have other cartridges; gotta work with what you have, not wishes and dreams.

2) He's TRYING to get another one to work, and from his description, it's falling off the extractor - so I'm suggesting checking out the extractor-tension, which:

3) in no way means (as you're implying, that what I've suggested is) that "the PISTOL is broken.".


If the gun functions on 2 dozen different types of cartridges but will not function with one type, I wouldn't label the gun as defective and start modifying the gun.
I would absolutely agree - other than the facts that 1) extractor-tension needing a tweak isn't a defective pistol as you so dramatically call it and 2) again, he doesn't HAVE "2 dozen different types of cartridges". I wish he did - I'd love to know what happens with factory ammo and give us far more points of data to work with, but he doesn't.

The difference in our philosophies seems to be that you want to work around the issue, I want to find out what it is and fix it.

[Dusty Bannister]

Any thought of asking the OP what he wants to do?

[Petrol & Powder]

Any thought of asking the OP what he wants to do?

No, we're having too much fun yelling at each other.

[Petrol & Powder]

The goal post are right where we started.

"1) - he doesn't have other cartridges; gotta work with what you have, not wishes and dreams."

/\ NOT true, He COULD change what he has. He's NOT married to THOSE cartridges, he could use something else.

If you've created some cartridge that DOESN'T work in your pistol, perhaps it would be better to use a different cartridge rather than modify your gun.......just saying

[AndyC]

The goal post are right where we started.

"1) - he doesn't have other cartridges; gotta work with what you have, not wishes and dreams."

/\ NOT true, He COULD change what he has. He's NOT married to THOSE cartridges, he could use something else.

You're assuming he could - he hasn't mentioned any such option. For all we know, those cartridges are all he has - particularly these days where it's hard to get anything else.


If you've created some cartridge that DOESN'T work in your pistol, perhaps it would be better to use a different cartridge rather than modify your gun.......just saying
Yeah, because looking at an extractor is such a big deal - and you're still assuming the cartridge is at fault when we know that it 1) does chamber 2) does shoot then 3) falls off the extractor.

In his words - "The slide looses its grip on the spent case and continues rearward.". I want to know why that's happening and solve it, but I guess you don't care about that part.

[Petrol & Powder]

From the OP:

"I recently received the above handgun. I bought it new, it is not broken in yet. An it very prone to not fully extracting a fired case when i am using a trunkated (sic) cone bullet. The gun fires and extracts rounds when i use standard round nose bullets......"

So - YES, he does have other options.
And the gun works just FINE with those other options (standard round nose bullets).

There's no need to replace extractors, tension extractors, alter extractors or sit down and have a long talk with the extractor......

As for, "In his words - "The slide looses its grip on the spent case and continues rearward.". I want to know why that's happening and solve it, but I guess you don't care about that part."

You are absolutely correct that I don't care about that part because I do not believe the OP has correctly identified the problem. I believe the problem is the CARTRIDGE, not the gun.

[AndyC]

You're still not telling me anything we didn't know already, but you're welcome to tell him to quit using his TC bullets and stick to RN - yeah, that'll solve the problem :)

[1006]

I would try reducing the COL to the minimum amount and tighten the taper crimp.

[Texas by God]

I'd like some pics and some popcorn[emoji16]

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[GaryN]

I was having this same problem with a 1911. It was frustrating. Then I tried a Wilson combat magazine. It will feed anything I put in it.

[onelight]

I was having this same problem with a 1911. It was frustrating. Then I tried a Wilson combat magazine. It will feed anything I put in it.
1911s have been around so long and are so popular no other pistol that I am aware of has so many options for after market parts and modifications . But for many years with most 1911s the pistol had to be modified to reliably feed anything but ball . You cant find the different parts and known solutions with any other pistol . Not that other pistols can't be modified but kinda starting from scratch with basically no aftermarket support .
If it was my new Ruger if I did not want to find a bullet shape or OAL cartridge dimension that worked , I would send it back to Ruger to make sure it is in spec. before I started modifying .

[kbstenberg]

Mods please close thread. A heated debate was not my intention!