Need emergency way to expand 45 ACP case I think

[guy_with_boolits]

I have a pistol test tomorrow and I am out of ammo. I had planned on making more ammo today but I just discovered the base of the boolit is getting compressed to .4505. This is for a 1911 45 ACP. I've been chasing problems to improve my ammo but I think this is a big one. Thing is I dont have a NOE expander plug. Is there any other way I could deal with this for 50 rounds? I do have a LEE APP with .451 and .452 sizers. Maybe I could install a shell holder instead of the sizer cylinder, and then use the plug to expand flared cases?

I know this seems crazy but I think there is actually an expander plug out there whose dimensions measure 0.448 for the plug, and that seems to be what my 0.451 sizing plug measures. If I flare the cases first using the powder-through die, I could then run them all through the APP to size the case so it doesnt crush my poor soft lead boolits

Crazy or what?

[onelight]

If your bullets are really soft they will swage down more than a harder bullet.
I normally want the case expanded .002 smaller than the bullet dia. I am loading .
We don't know what test you have so we don't know if accuracy matters much or if it is a test for safe operation of the firearm . If accuracy doesn't matter clean your barrel the best you can and load 50 more and take your test.
If they are scoring your target I don't know how we can help.

[Burnt Fingers]

Are you perhaps using a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die????

[alfadan]

Maybe dont size the cases if they've been fired from your gun? Just flare, seat and taper crimp and plunk each one. Or, will a little leading hurt if its just for 50 rounds?

[guy_with_boolits]

Maybe dont size the cases if they've been fired from your gun? Just flare, seat and taper crimp and plunk each one. Or, will a little leading hurt if its just for 50 rounds?

I think you're on to something

I just tried taking a fired case (still dirty), flaring it with the powder through die, and sure enough I can push a sized boolit in with finger pressure all the way to where it needs to seat..but its not loose. I cant imagine that crushing the lead. Hopefully its enough tension though.

[scattershot]

Try a few first, though. You may get bullet setback.

[onelight]

I think you're on to something

I just tried taking a fired case (still dirty), flaring it with the powder through die, and sure enough I can push a sized boolit in with finger pressure all the way to where it needs to seat..but its not loose. I cant imagine that crushing the lead. Hopefully its enough tension though.
It is not enough tension when it feeds from the mag it can push the bullet back into the case , and cause a jam or worse fire with the bullet pushed back in the case and raise pressure kaboom high .

[45DUDE]

You can't use reloads if taking a cc class. At least in my area.

[Dusty Bannister]

May check your 1/4" socket set to see if you have a small socket that will expand the case mouth a little bit. If those are too small, look at the 3/8" set for the really small ones. This might get the job done for now.

[243winxb]

Size part of the case neck. About 1/2 of the bullets bearing surface. Neck Sizing.

Or cast some bullet using Linotype. Harder alloy

[JimB..]

In a pinch maybe try seating a FMJ bullet and then pulling it and seating your cast. Never tried it, just sitting in a bar and it came to me.

[guy_with_boolits]

socket idea is good..going to go look for the right diameter

maybe I can play around with partial depth seating with the socket as was suggested, on sized cases

fired cases seem too loose..but I am not sure I taper crimped. will clean each case so theres no carbon then do it again with fired cases and taper crimp and see if it keeps its COAL with an action cycle

[onelight]

Here is a post from outpost 75 on a test to check for setback see post #2.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?399380-32-ACP-crimp

[megasupermagnum]

You can't use reloads if taking a cc class. At least in my area.

That is nonsense. Unless you are talking about in individual indoor range or some other specific thing, no, you are allowed to practice and test with whatever ammo you want in just about any state (can't say for NY and CA).

@guy_with_boolits, don't screw around with this. Shooting a semi auto with bullets that can be seated with finger pressure is the absolute worst way to go. Taper crimps are not supposed to crimp, and they sure don't offer much resistance even when overdone. Just load and shoot them the way you had been. They will go bang. They might not shoot good, and they might leave fouling, but it is the best way to go in the time you have.

[45DUDE]

AGAIN- I am a member of a 600+member gun club and they will not allow reloads taking a conceal carry course. Other than that he should be ok. I did say at least in my area. I reread the post and haven't got a clue what the 50 boolits are for.

[Dusty Bannister]

I agree, there is no stated purpose for the 50 cartridges he needs to assemble. But given the present shortage, perhaps his area has relaxed some of the basic equipment requirements. Without that consideration, that part of the comments are moot.

Back to the OP topic, be sure to check neck tension by pressing the cartridge against the edge of a bench or similar to show that there can be NO bullet set back during the cycle. Just hand cycling the cartridge through the firearm is not sufficient. Good luck.

[AndyC]

Just load and shoot them the way you had been. They will go bang. They might not shoot good, and they might leave fouling, but it is the best way to go in the time you have.
This.

[tai95]

That is nonsense. Unless you are talking about in individual indoor range or some other specific thing, no, you are allowed to practice and test with whatever ammo you want in just about any state (can't say for NY and CA).


For NY I can tell you its different in every county. My county only issues CCW permits and they believe everyone deserves it so the process is quick. You pay the fee get your form have a few character witnesses and a few days later you have your permit. The next county over You have to jump through flaming hoops, take classes, multiple interviews with police, judges, wait a year or more then get issued a hunting/target permit. Once you have that permit for a few years you can go and request a CCW and maybe you'll get it, if the judge decides you NEED it. Amazingly enough for both counties I don't think you have to shoot anything to prove competence.

[Forrest r]

Not really a lot you can do in a pinch. Myself I'd try a 10mm allen wrench. The 10mm wrench (before someone tells the world 10mm ='s .394") is six sided. The long points of that 10mm allen wrench are .448"/.449". You could size the brass as you normally would, use the factory expander to open the case mouth. Then insert the 10mm allen wrench and turn & press down at the same time. It will open your 45acp cases up where you need them to be the most. Namely the base of the bullet. Then simply taper crimp as you usually would.

You should of ordered the correct expander from neo when you 1st started casting bullets for the 45acp. The lee expander doesn't do a whole lot. You can see the "high water mark" on my lee expander that I use for jacketed bullets. The brass left a ring around the expander that you can clearly see the brass color on the expander.
https://i.imgur.com/AtiYtlr.jpg

[guy_with_boolits]

You should of ordered the correct expander from neo when you 1st started casting bullets for the 45acp.

Thanks. This seems to be the situation. I am a little mystified by the expander plug dimensions though. It seems its sized 0.452"? That would be a loose fit for my 0.4515" boolits. How does this usually work out?

I may make one instead of buying one, since they will probably be hard to get. But either way, it seems very soft lead boolits and 45ACP require neck expansion if you dont want to crush the boolits. My measurements of the boolit bottom band (which does the crushing) show this occuring with .452 sized boolits getting crushed to .4505".

Things got hectic so I didnt post what I tried. But basically the unsized fired case was too loose (3 feeding cycle COAL reduction of 0.015") and the only other mandrel (0.451") I had was too small. (I cant actually remember pulling the boolit and verifying it was still getting crushed...but for some reason I abandoned it after trying it several times. Things got hectic.)

I dont have anything slightly smaller, so in the time I've got I'm out of options. The smallest one I had was 0.451" btw, which is bigger than the 10mm wrench, yet still seemed to be too small.

So I just ended up just loading things using the normal LEE dies, but trying to cull any boolits with defects of any sort, use cases with lengths within a couple .001" of each other, sorted by headstamp, and then sorting the completed rounds by COAL just in case there were an outliers.

The silver lining here is that I think this is a MAJOR issue with my ammo, and it apparently has a measurable and controllable solution that should be straightforward to implement. Having the base of the boolit sized to 0.4505" by the brass would explain leading and poor accuracy.

[guy_with_boolits]

SO...question for all the experienced loaders here

What published loading book/reference material would have instructed me to expand 45ACP necks for soft lead boolits right from the start? I'm wondering if that sort of thing is actually in any of these handbooks or if they are all generic and never really get into details that matter.

[Burnt Fingers]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.

[guy_with_boolits]

thanks everyone I passed my test with my normal reloads today

now I just have to figure out how I will expand cases in the future..lets see whats in stock

what size should I get?

[toallmy]

Congratulations on passing your test . But more importantly congratulations on working out all your issues along the way from casting the boolits to seating them at the end of the process . What you have figured out through your adventure , can be used loading any caliber you choose in the future .
I have and use a mix of expander / flaring dies that I have tried in different calibers , but now I just get the lee flair die throw away the flair plug and install a NOE expander plug . You can install the die in your second spot on your loadmaster and flair in the priming station .
I believe that your casting with a soft alloy + hollow point boolits so the larger expander plug will help with the swaggering down in size of your boolits + the distortion of the soft hollow point while loading . Hopefully
Good job

[guy_with_boolits]

Congratulations on passing your test . But more importantly congratulations on working out all your issues along the way from casting the boolits to seating them at the end of the process . What you have figured out through your adventure , can be used loading any caliber you choose in the future .
I have and use a mix of expander / flaring dies that I have tried in different calibers , but now I just get the lee flair die throw away the flair plug and install a NOE expander plug . You can install the die in your second spot on your loadmaster and flair in the priming station .
I believe that your casting with a soft alloy + hollow point boolits so the larger expander plug will help with the swaggering down in size of your boolits + the distortion of the soft hollow point while loading . Hopefully
Good job

thanks, I bought a bunch of NOE expander plugs today, they were actually in stock and pretty cheap

looking forward to making better and better ammo