sorting brass

[NSP64]

Do you sort brass by Mfg? I weighed some empty cases and noticed quite a difference in brands. winchester was lightest, followed by federal, then R-P. If the lightest is do to brass thickness would you want to keep the thinest or heavyest? I was thinking that the lightest may have most internal volume, and the heavyest the least volume.:???:

[madcaster]

I TRY to,I figure take out all the varibles so I can at least flinch into the same hole on the target![smilie=1:

[357maximum]

Why would you go to the trouble of making certain everything else in a load is consistant and then dump it all into various sized containers???????????????????????????????....kinda like wipin before ya poop...don't make no sense.

[billyb]

I sort by headstamp. I find a lot of brass at our club range,as i clean it i sort it. Bill

[mike in co]

another question that is incomplete....

what are you doing with the brass ???

plinking.....hunting trip you just pent 3 or 4 grand on ??

define your question....

i sort lapua by weight for my br gun....and all my pistol brass are single headstamp. but my latest batch of 223 is mixed once fired brass.

mike in co

[Buckshot]

............That's the very first step in dealing with a bucket 'o' brass, "Sort by headstamp". If you're going after meaningfull accuracy you weigh your brass too. Winchester may be lighter then R-P in 30-'06, but heavier then R-P in 8x57 and Federal may be between both in some other cartridge, or the order completely different.

Some places will actually check lot numbers (for a premium) if you're buying a quantity of brass, bullets, powder or primers to assure you all you're getting variation wise is that which the manufacturer allows within one lot, as lot to lot variations can be much larger.

................Buckshot

[NSP64]

Good to find out I'm not the only anal one out there:drinks: I was thinking(smell the smoke) if you wanted full power loads with a powder that takes up volume then you might work loads up using the lightest (thinner walls=more powder) and inversely a lighter cast load maybe use the heavyest (thicker walls= less volume) cases.

[HABCAN]

A maximum load developed in a 'light' case can possibly develop catastrophic pressures in a 'heavy' case because of decreased volume within it, so sensible handloaders always sort the brass at least by brand. Sorting again by weight within a brand is conducive to finer accuracy. Your call.

[Tom Herman]

I segregate all my 30'06 by headstamp.
I'm much more lax with revolver and semiauto brass, as I just plink.
With .38 SPL/.357 Mag, I've segregated out all the nickle stuff, will sell it and keep the normal brass.
With .44 SPL, I use one type of brass, as I've had to buy it all new.
With the .455 Webley, I have to keep the Hornady brass separate from the Fiocchi, as Hornady is LPP, and Fiocchi is SPP...

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[mike in co]

how much of a difference?

in quickload software, 300 win mag has 4 or 5 different listings...one for each brass manufacturer.
there is that big of a difference in case volume.

mike in co

[sundog]

Weighing brass is anal, huh? Well, hmmph! But I'm gonna keep doing it anyway. So, there.

[S.R.Custom]

how much of a difference?

in quickload software, 300 win mag has 4 or 5 different listings...one for each brass manufacturer.
there is that big of a difference in case volume.

mike in co


And the differences between brands can affect more than just weight/volume. It can be an indicator of differences in the hardness of brass, as well...

Last year when I was working up 7mm loads for the BoomerShoot, I worked up a finely accurate, max load using Winchester brass. As I was loading up my ammo for the event, I ran out of the Winchester brass and starting using Remington brass without regard to the change in brand, because the Remington brass actually weighed a few grains less than the Winchester.

So I'm at the BoomerShoot, having a wonderful time blowing stuff up at 675 yards, until I got into a box of the Remington loads. Imagine my surprise when I suddenly had to start opening the bolt on the Savage with a hammer. The Remington brass was expanding .002" at the head, where the Winchester wasn't expanding at all.

[C.F.Plinker]

I got interested in case capacity when I started loading for .223. The conventional wisdom was that military brass weighs more because it is thicker and therefore has less capacity. This, in turn, requires that loads using military brass be reduced. A corrolary is that you can use empty weight to sort the brass according to capacity. Being left brained and skeptical, I decided to measure some brass, weigh it, and determine the capacity of it. I had some WCC and WW that I had fired in my AR. Two of my range buddies gave me some LC and R-P that they had fired in their rifles. I took a random selection of 10 rounds of each in the once fired condition, measured them, weighed them, filled them with water and reweighed them, then calculated the gross capacity in grains of water. From heaviest to lightest they were: WW, WCC, R-P, and LC. From lowest capacity to highest they were: WW, R-P, LC , and WCC. The ones with the largest capacity were the military brass and one of these WCC was the heaviest.

Within each brand there were some that weighed the same and some that had the same volume. The ones that weighed the same could (and did) have differences of 0.3-0.5 grains in capacity and cases that had the same capacity could have a differeince in weight of up to 1.5 grains.

Since I put these on a spread sheet, I let the spread sheet calculate the correlation between empty weight and capacity. It was only 0.4 or thereabouts. I took the WCCs and sized and trimmed them and the correlation got slightly worse.

Comparing brands, the most consistant (lowest standard deviation in capacity) was WW, followed by WCC, LC, and R-P.

I did the same thing with 41 Magnum brass and found that R-P had greater capacity than WW by 0.5 grains. The correlation between capacity and weight was .35 for R-P and 0.04 for WW. They had about the same consistancy of capacity.

The bottom line for me is that I will try to use brass which is the most consistant in capacity. beyond that, I will sort by headstamp only. Note that I only do this for calibers where I am filling up most of the case with powder. If the case is half full (think 38 Spl or 45 ACP) I go ahead and mix headstamps. For rifle loads and my Magnum Pistol loads I will keep the same headstamps in a box and work up different loads for each.

[missionary5155]

Good morning I dedicate brass to a firearm. It stays with that firearm until it is unsuable. It begins life as new and as soon as that batch shows deterioration it gets marked and is used as plinking brass only. Usually each batch is 50 rounds.. one plastic box that contains a history that stays with that box. Most revolvers get 2-3 boxes. Rifles depends.. My ballard has just 20 pieces of brass. My Rollers each have 100. Others have 20-50 depending on need. The Garand has 200.
I do not wiegh brass. I but Starline (if possible) some Winny.

[felix]

True, faster the powder per application, the effect of the case variation goes down. Also, there is no guarantee who made the case and the composition of the materials at any time. About the only guarantee is who loaded the ammo, and that would be by the lot number on the box. I bet Starline does not manufacture brass, and uses Olin slugs. ... felix.

[mike in co]

I got interested in case capacity when I started loading for .223. The conventional wisdom was that military brass weighs more because it is thicker and therefore has less capacity. This, in turn, requires that loads using military brass be reduced. A corrolary is that you can use empty weight to sort the brass according to capacity. Being left brained and skeptical, I decided to measure some brass, weigh it, and determine the capacity of it. I had some WCC and WW that I had fired in my AR. Two of my range buddies gave me some LC and R-P that they had fired in their rifles. I took a random selection of 10 rounds of each in the once fired condition, measured them, weighed them, filled them with water and reweighed them, then calculated the gross capacity in grains of water. From heaviest to lightest they were: WW, WCC, R-P, and LC. From lowest capacity to highest they were: WW, R-P, LC , and WCC. The ones with the largest capacity were the military brass and one of these WCC was the heaviest.

Within each brand there were some that weighed the same and some that had the same volume. The ones that weighed the same could (and did) have differences of 0.3-0.5 grains in capacity and cases that had the same capacity could have a differeince in weight of up to 1.5 grains.


Since I put these on a spread sheet, I let the spread sheet calculate the correlation between empty weight and capacity. It was only 0.4 or thereabouts. I took the WCCs and sized and trimmed them and the correlation got slightly worse.

Comparing brands, the most consistant (lowest standard deviation in capacity) was WW, followed by WCC, LC, and R-P.

I did the same thing with 41 Magnum brass and found that R-P had greater capacity than WW by 0.5 grains. The correlation between capacity and weight was .35 for R-P and 0.04 for WW. They had about the same consistancy of capacity.

The bottom line for me is that I will try to use brass which is the most consistant in capacity. beyond that, I will sort by headstamp only. Note that I only do this for calibers where I am filling up most of the case with powder. If the case is half full (think 38 Spl or 45 ACP) I go ahead and mix headstamps. For rifle loads and my Magnum Pistol loads I will keep the same headstamps in a box and work up different loads for each.


this "test" has no validity. sorry but it is just the facts.
for a test to be valid the brass must be from one lot. mixed lot testing has no true validity.
i have done testing on fn, lapua and winchester in single lots, all in 223/5.56
the fn was a single lot of about 600 pcs
the lapua was single lot of 100( old , not current MATCH brass)
the winchester a single lot of 500
the old lapua sucked so bad i went to winchester. the story is that lapua out sourced the brass and was not match quality at all. they have moved the product in house and while i have heard good results from the new stuff, but thinner necks, i have not shot any.
the fn is mil 5.56, and produced a single lot of about 50 pcs . typical mil brass,,,,not that great.
the winchester was broken into 6 lots of 50(300 pcs) the rest was too large in variation for my match shooting...greater than .6 gr spread. most of my lots were plus or minus .1, .2 or .3 gr.
i did produce a single lot of 30 pcs plus or minus .0.........these were volume checked and produced the same vol.......period.

since you measured fired cases, not sized cases, you are measuring the chamber volume not case volumeand not from the same chamber. had you resized all cases in the same die, it would have helped, but with mixed brass to begin with.......just not worth much at all.

you are allowed your opinions, i will not argue, but the test must be valid.......mine is and yours is not.
i did see much smaller variation in weight between mil and commercial 223 than i saw in 308.

mike in co

[atr]

Yes I do sort brass,,,LOTS of variation in volumetric case capacity.....I also try to match primers with the brass,,,i.e. Rem primers with Rem brass etc. GI brass has much different volumetric case capacity when compared to commercial brass

[Harry]

I noted in Tom Hermans post the mention of brass vs. nickel cases. What is the functional difference between nickel and brass? I note the purchase price of nickel is more than brass. Is it a quality difference?

[MT Gianni]

There are those who believe that nickel can peel damaging dies, so they do not want it in their dies.

[carpetman]

I personally like the nickle brass and it's never given a problem. It cleans easier and better. One real practical use is if I have two similar size cartridges, I get one in nickle then I can easily tell between the two.

[carpetman]

lol--mines a test and yours is not and besides my postman can beat up your postman.

[Junior1942]

Life's too short to spend time trying to get good groups with range pickup brass. Order a little more new brass than you think you'll need from Sinclair and get it from the same lot #.

[Junior1942]

lol--mines a test and yours is not and besides my postman can beat up your postman.I'll bet my postmistress looks better in a sweater than your postman.

[mike in co]

lol--mines a test and yours is not and besides my postman can beat up your postman.

heck i did not say it wasnt a test....just no validity to the conclusion.

and besides...my mailman can beat up junior and then i get his postmistress...with a new sweater for christmas....

lol

mike in co

[carpetman]

didnt say it wasnt a test why the quotation marks around "test"?

[Echo]

MY post-dragon can out-ugly ALL of them, maybe even Junior, too!

[Down South]

I have a lot of range pick up brass even though I rarely use most of it. I buy most of the brass that I use new. I buy mostly Star Line brass in either 500 or 1000 round batches for my revolvers. I buy 100 round batches for my rifles. It’s a little pricey but revolver brass last forever almost. My range pick up brass remains in reserve. I picked up several hundred rounds of 9mm, 38 spl, 40 S&W, & 45 brass just a couple days ago. I do use range pick up brass for most of my pistols. I usually shoot no farther than 25 yds with my pistols and I can never find all of the brass since I‘m usually shooting in grassy areas. It’s a waste of money to me to buy expensive brass that I’ll wind up loosing plus I’m only using it for short range shooting. I do sort by headstamp when I am using range pick up even though it probably wouldn’t make much difference for what I’m using it for.

[buck1]

Nickle seems to trio up real nice too....Buck