PDA

View Full Version : Black Powder, How To



ez4545
12-23-2008, 12:14 AM
Greetings, I read more than I post here and I usually find answers to most of my questions can be found using the search function.

I don't think it's a far reach to say this forum has some serious do it yer selfers here when it comes to ammo!

Okay, I'll get to the point.

Does anyone ever make their own black powder? What's the process like?


Bill

2muchstuf
12-23-2008, 12:21 AM
It scares the bejeses out of me so I don't.
But my nephew does. It's not quite goex but it will do in a pinch.
Google up black powder or making black powder. Ther seems to be alot about it there, as I recall.

2

August
12-23-2008, 02:17 AM
When they used to have chemistry sets for kids (a long time ago), I mixed some up. It would barely burn, let alone explode. But, the basic chemistry is simple enough.

John Boy
12-23-2008, 02:54 AM
Bill - a fella from AK asked the same Q a couple of days ago and here was my reply:
In addition, if you never have made original gunpowder, you might want to buy this book too ... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0873646754


Does anyone experiment with making their own?
Pete, I did in my younger years - pre 15 year's old ... with mediocre and bad results. If I had known then what I have learned in later life maybe the results would have been better. Even when I ground my powder with a mortar and pestle - dry: ignition took place in my bedroom, smoke all over creation, singed eyebrows-hair and had trouble seeing for a couple of days.

Anyway, some later life suggestions:
* Use thin dried branches from the alder wood family (should be plenty in AK unless the snow shoes haven't eaten it all) for your charcoal with no bark. Start accumulating the branches before Spring because there will be more sugar in the wood
* You will need a temperature probe for the retort so you don't burn off the fixed carbon in the wood. 300 to 320 degrees Centigrade for 8 hours gives a fixed carbon content of about 65% in the finished charcoal
* Presume you are going to use a ball mill, unless you find a 5 ton wheel mill here in the States.:lol: (If you can find an antique sharpening wheel, it would make a fine mini wheel mill). Be sure to mix the saltpeter - charcoal and sulfur ... MOIST
* You will need some sieve screens: 20 and 30 mesh should do you to sift the cake. The larger grains and the fines can be remixed again to make another cake
(You may want to read this post for your FFg and FFFg ratios ... http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10360&highlight=sieve )
* Expect the density of the powder to be 50% less dense than commercial powder
And make your powder outdoors for safety's sake

Good Luck - Have Fun and Let Us Know How It Shoots - especially the velocities

Jim
12-23-2008, 07:49 AM
EZ,
Trust me, it's more trouble than it's worth and the likelyhood of a disaster is very high. If you wanna do it yerself just for the h311 of it, try making explosive incindiary devices. It's safer. If you're trying to save money, you can buy bulk loads of BP very reasonably.

4t5
12-23-2008, 08:09 AM
I have made my own BP before. Unless you need a particular granulation for something special, it is not worth the effort. After a few tries, I was able to whip up some that was about equivalent to commercially made BP.

Disclaimer: If you blow yourself up, it ain't my fault. Please do extensive research before attempting to try this. This is not meant to be a complete tutorial, just my own personal experience. YMMV.

Here is a slightly simplified version of how. Fertilizer grade chemicals work just fine. The secret is in the charcoal. If you use poor charcoal, you will be lucky to get the bullet past the muzzle. I take a mixture of chemicals and put it in a ball mill. A small rock tumbler with lead balls works, but I can only do small batches and it takes a good while to mill a batch, like 24 hrs. After that, I take a measured amount of powder, now called "meal powder", mix in a tiny bit of water, and press it into what looks like a hockey puck, trying to achieve a density close to 1.7g/cc3. After drying, I crush the pucks to bits and screen it to the desired granulation. I mostly made "2FA" which is 4-12 mesh. For sporting powders like 2Fg, the grain size is 16 - 30mesh, and 3Fg is 20 - 50.

There is a whale of a lot more to know about this. There are several other methods that can be used. A good place to start would be Passfire (http://www.passfire.com), probably the best pyrotechnics forum on the net.

RMulhern
12-23-2008, 11:58 AM
Let me put it to you like this.......anyone wishing to make their own BLACKPOWDER......is possibly one step below an IDIOT!!:-?:twisted:

Nuff said!:(

45nut
12-23-2008, 01:24 PM
Feelings about the intelligence driving the quest aside, I hope Linstrum chimes in here.

I would hope we do not become so scared of individual attempts as basic chemistry outside a laboratory that another 1,000 laws are written to block them.

Certainly everyone is not set out to be successful, but there are individuals about that are more than qualified and calling them idiots is ,,well,, idiotic.

Murphy's Law and Darwin's yearly list point out the folly well enough when doing "dangerous" things, and daily activities gone bad claim many, but those qualified and careful are the ones that brought us out of the forests and onto the highways that claim even more lives than basic chemistry.

Going blindly into any activity is indeed "idiotic", but there are reasons and ideas out there that have yet to be proven..and the people that make them everyday reality are often called fools at first. Please respect the reason we have "reason".

RMulhern
12-23-2008, 02:40 PM
"and the people that make them everyday"

Yeah.....those are the 'people'....that get BLOWN UP on occasions......and they're PROFESSIONALS......supposedly!!

My statement stands: The 'average Joe'....is ONE STEP BELOW and IDIOT in any endeavor to make BLACKPOWDER!![smilie=b::groner:

wills
12-23-2008, 02:49 PM
http://www.skylighter.com/mall/chemicals.asp?Sort=A

If you dont make your own charcoal, which is an art itself, from what i understand, i think this place ma have the grade you need.

northmn
12-23-2008, 02:51 PM
There was a recipe on another site about making "Grandma's Homemade Red Powder" People used to make their own, especially in the more remote areas. It was usable, I guess. Likely an individual in an area would make powder and trade it for other things. I think one of the Foxfire books had a recipe. One of the reasons Americans used longrifles, was supposidly to burn the lower grades of powder better. Some of the back to our roots types may do so, but I think I would save homemades use in a ML and use the better stuff in a cartridge. AS to the more dangerous aspects of making it, I believe one secret is to do a small bit at a time to avoid a major explosion. You can crunch up coarse powder to make fine powder but it is wise to do a little at a time.

Northmn

Catshooter
12-23-2008, 03:36 PM
FPMIII,

Possibly you miss the point that 45nut was so very gently trying make. This site is not Glocktalk or ARF. We don't call each other idiots, regardless of may seem to be a good and adequite reason.

Here, we try to act as if we were all in the same room, sharing our favorite beverages and just discussing things in an effort either share knowledge or gain it.

Sometimes there are posts that one really wants to lash out at, even here. The best action is to hit 'Backspace' and move on to another. If you look at the other 10 responses you'll see what I mean.

Just trying to help.


Cat

45nut
12-23-2008, 04:17 PM
Thank You for that, I was trying to defuse instead of inflame. Guess my point was overlooked.

45nut
12-23-2008, 05:39 PM
Oh,, Lets try not to use terms against our own that the anti-gun types are using....you can count on many of them insisting we are idiots for wanting to use something as potentially dangerous as a gun on our own, without supervision.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

Are we all ready to lay down and meekly accept the terms for surrender the anti-gunners want to force upon us because some of us may be hurt in the process? Or do we choose to live and walk as free men knowing danger lurks on the streets? In our own homes, in pursuance of "dangerous" things....?

montana_charlie
12-23-2008, 08:12 PM
There's a certain amount of risk associated with almost everything we do. It's really 'idiotic' how some people, companies, and government agencies try so hard to eliminate even the slightest risk imaginable. It leaves people thinking they are 'totally protected'...and prone to sue somebody when they burn their fingers.

It's more reasonable to assume the responsibility for whatever risks life exposes you to, and do your best to minimize them. But, it's not realistic to think you can avoid risk, altogether.
On the other hand, there is the need (in some of us) to be self-reliant to varying degrees.

In the pursuit of accomplishing some desired task without calling in a high-priced expert, we may decide to 'make do' - using our own native intelligence and ingenuity.
While I don't have a pressing desire to make black powder, I would probably be seen as an 'idiot' by many...if they knew about the other predicaments I willingly get myself into.
CM

No_1
12-23-2008, 09:08 PM
EZ,

Good question. When I was young I found the directions for black powder. Charcoal, sulfur and saltpeter I believe it was. When I got home from school (yep, learned it there in junior high) I looked in my brothers chemistry set and found 2 of the 3 ingredients. A trip to the garage found some charcoal that we use in the grill. I ground that up real fine with a hammer (real technical right?) then mixed all the stuff together. I found a piece of pipe but only 1 pipe cap so I stuffed it full. I stuck it down in the yard then held a match to it. That thing burned for maybe 5 minutes. The pipe turned red hot. Good thing I never found another cap or I might be typing a lot slower now. Anyway. It can be done but as other have indicated, it is easier bought.

FPMIII,
Chill out. Diplomacy is learning to use the correct words. Instead of saying someone is one step below being an idiot maybe you could have said "it seems pretty crazy to make it because ...".

It appears from other post that you do have some experience with long range BP shooting. Maybe sharing a story with the gentleman that is asking would go a lot better AND as far as I can tell he did not ask for directions in making the stuff, just was asking what the process was.

Robert

ez4545
12-23-2008, 10:28 PM
WOWZA, I didn't intend to set off a firestorm here! It was a curiosity driven question and nothing more.

The folks here fire form cases, of course cast own our booolits, swage, use military surplus and pulldown powder and experiment with finding the best hand loads everyday. Others make their own sizing dies and convert old vetterli rim fire rifles (my dream rifle one day by the way), etc etc.

It had occurred to me that someone here might actually make their own black powder.

I can get the graff and sons powder for about 12 bucks a pound and I don't use enough to justify the costs to set up to make any. I'm way to busy trying to chase down sources of wheel weights and soft lead anyway.

Thanks to those that took this post as it was intended and answered!

Merry Christmas to all!!!!

Bill

Catshooter
12-24-2008, 01:11 AM
ez,

You made no mistakes here.

I and two friends made probably upwards of five pounds of the Holy Black. Of course we knew nothing of safety or any technical knowedge of how to and how not to. We grabbed charcoal out of the fireplace. Sulphur and salt peter from the local drug store.

It worked well enough that about one ounce packed into a pill bottle and buried about ten inches underneath a pear tree shook about a hundred pears off the tree when it went off.

Our biggest challenge was fuses! We had to make our own, couldn't find any anywhere. This was '63 - '64, I was ten or so. Wasn't until I was 25 that I found out your supposed to make it damp!


Cat

rhead
12-24-2008, 07:59 AM
Keep everything wet until the sieving process. Grind the sulfur and charcoal separately as finely as possible. (That is the part where GOEX and Co, have the big advanatage, they have access to HEAVY rollers). Make your own charcoal. Use willow or alder, debarked, first year growth. Google for more complete directions.
The product will be inferior to the better commercial grades but a lot better than throwing rocks. It will not be cost effective but it could become so in the future.
Thank God for all the IDIOTS who paved the roads of progress by doing the dangerous and difficult things to make todays lifestyle possible.
"Don't go in that cave Og, its dark in there."
"Stay away from that fire, you will burn yourself."
"Only an idiot would catch a wild cow, pull on them things hanging off her belly and drink whatever comes out."
my hat is off to the first man who saw a raw oyrster and wondered "I wonder what that tastes like?"

No_1
12-24-2008, 10:14 AM
my hat is off to the first man who saw a raw oyrster and wondered "I wonder what that tastes like?"

AMEN! to that one and also the person who perfected oyster farms. I can now get them year round :drinks:

Robert

357maximum
12-24-2008, 10:45 AM
:groner:I must be one lucky idiot.[smilie=b: The secret is in the charcoal (psst leave the bark on the willow and do not use stems over 2 inches in diameter when you cook your coals) The rest is basically following modified age old instructions, using a good homemade ball mill, rubber makers sulfur, KNO3 and good ol commons sense) Did mine come out better than swiss? no.....did it come out as good or better than goex?...well yes it did. Did I learn something..yes is my brain closed off to possibilities?..definately not. Do I still have my eyes, ears and all my digits? All 20 counted for and I can see and hear my typing...huh


By the way...that homemade willow charcoal when you get carried away in making it makes a dandy casting flux.

357maximum
12-24-2008, 11:22 AM
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l80/357maximum/?action=view&current=DEC08004.jpg


Here is a pic of the charcoal making drum in action....if you ever actually make the leap...you will find good sulfur the most frustrating thing to find....you are better off buying your black...but some of us just must do certain things to shut our brain up.

I tried several methods ..the ball mill worked best, and I made better powder when I used bark on...but it was one of my last batches and migh very well have been happenstance. I use sugar based commercial propellants in frontloaders now....I have to drive too far to get the real stuff.


Have fun and Merry Christmas

cajun shooter
12-25-2008, 08:58 AM
A man by the name of Werner Von Braun was called alot of names by people who should have known better. He went on to be one of the men who was responsible for putting us on the moon. I read his book, I Aim AT THE STARS, at a very early age and decided that name callers should be ignored.

rhead
12-25-2008, 10:35 AM
A man by the name of Werner Von Braun was called alot of names by people who should have known better. He went on to be one of the men who was responsible for putting us on the moon. I read his book, I Aim AT THE STARS, at a very early age and decided that name callers should be ignored.

Along with Einstein, Edison, and many others. I am certainly not in their class but I always take it as a compliment to be called a fool or an idiot. :-D

Boerrancher
01-07-2009, 09:45 AM
Good Charcoal is the key to good powder. I use to make my own Holy Black when I was a kid, just to see if I could do it, and my dad wasn't good at buying black powder for my CVA Hawken. Charcoal from the fire place or the BBQ grill is not suitable, it will cause lots of fouling and will not burn evenly. Also if you can't find alder branches, Straw works well, and is only like $3 a bale which will produce enough charcoal to last a life time.

As was stated earlier making charcoal is an art. These are the materials you will require:

1. Metal five gal bucket with a lid that closes tight.
2. Straw or Alder branches
3. Lots of fire wood to keep a nice hot but even fire going for about 8 hours.

Fill the bucket with small pieces of straw or alder chips, if using wood, remove the bark. Punch a small hole about an eighth inch in diameter in the lid, and secure it on the bucket. Build a fire and get a big pile of coals in the center, and place the bucket on the coals, and keep the flames burning around the bucket, so that each time the flames turn to coals you can rake them under the bucket. You will also have to shake the bucket to keep your material mixed so that all of it turns to charcoal. Also every couple hours pull your bucket off the heat, let it cool and remove the lid to check on the contents. You may want a large wooden kitchen spoon to stir it with to check the charcoal. When all of the material is a nice shiny black you are done.

The secret is limited oxygen. When Oxygen is added you get ash and also incomplete carbonization of the wood/straw, which causes poor burning and lots of residue/fouling. The key is to drive off all the other products in the wood/straw and reduce it to pure carbon chains on the molecular level. I didn't understand what I was doing when I was a kid, other than following Don's (the man who taught me most of what I know about casting and reloading) instructions. By the time I graduated college with my B.S. in Bio-Chemistry, I fully understood the process.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

4t5
01-07-2009, 04:25 PM
Well, I would draw the line at making my own charcoal. It is just too easy to buy suitable charcoal right on the internet here: http://www.customcharcoal.com/willow-lump-charcoal.html. One can make good BP for under $3 per pound using store bought chemicals. Labor costs are another matter entirely!

Old Ironsights
01-07-2009, 05:53 PM
Again, "can" and "do" are hopefully different things... at least in discussions on BATFE monitored forums.

Making BP is "illegal" without submitting to a BATFE Rectal Probe.

Link to making good charcoal...
http://musketeer.ch/blackpowder/homemade_bp.html

Pete D.
01-07-2009, 06:17 PM
The process is quite involved and there is the risk as noted. For information about the two common processes, this is a basic article:

Making black powder

The practice of making black powder (often abbreviated 'BP')is often oversimplified in textbooks. Merely mixing the components, potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfur, does not result in real black powder. The mixture this obtained is called 'green powder' or 'polverone'. It burns relatively slowly and leaves a lot of solid, unburned, material (residue). 'Real' blackpowder burns far more rapidly, leaving almost no residue. Its properties are very different from polverone. Making black powder at home takes some effort. It will require the use of a piece of equipment called a ball mill and can be produced by two methods. Either of the two methods described below is of suitable quality for most common purposes. The powder could be further improved by pressing and corning, if required, but this will not be described on this page.
The components

The standard formulation for black powder is: 75 parts potassium nitrate, 15 parts charcoal and 10 parts sulfur (as always, all parts are by weight).

You can find information on acquiring these chemicals in the chemicals section
.
Which method to use

There are two methods to make BP: The ball mill method and the precipitation (or 'CIA') method. You'll need a ball mill in any case. While both methods work, they each have their own advantages and disadvantages. The main disadvantage of the ball mill method is that it is essential that you have a safe place to let your mill do it's work. You need a place with no buildings, people or animals whatsoever in the neighbourhood, and you need to be able to turn it on and off remotely. It also makes a lot of noise. Advantage of the ball mill method is that it is less laborous. You can simply charge your mill with the ingredients, turn it on, do something else for a couple of hours and you're done. The CIA method is much more work: you first mill the charcoal and sulfur together (just like you would with the ball mill method), but this is followed by dissolving the potassium nitrate in hot boiling water which is then mixed with the milled charcoal/sulfur mixture. The potassium nitrate is then precipitated from the solution by mixing with ice cold isopropyl alcohol. This is followed by filtering (messy) and drying (takes a long time, and a good place with no ignition sources, since there is a flammable liquid involved).
The ball mill method

1. Take your raw charcoal and crush it with a hammer between two sheets of paper. Wear old clothing and do this outside, since it is very messy. Sieve the charcoal through a coarse sieve (about 30 mesh).

2. Weigh the charcoal. To every 100 grams of charcoal, add 67 grams of sulfur, and fill 1/4th of your ball mill with this mixture. Put the media in and let the mill run for 3 hours.

3. When you open your mill, you should find an incredibly fine black/greyish powder. Sieve this to get the media of the mill out, and weigh it. In a separate container, place 75 grams of potassium nitrate for every 25 grams of charcoal/sulfur powder you have. Put the potassium nitrate in your ball mill, and mill it for 3 hours. You should have a very fine white/greyish powder.

4. Now mix the charcoal/sulfur mix with the potassium nitrate. Don't bother to mix it very thoroughly, since that will happen in the mill soon enough. To this mixture, add 6% of water. I spray it over the powder that I spread out on a sheet of paper to make sure all of it becomes wet. Put the wet powder in your mill and let it run for 5 hours. Every hour or so, check to see if the powder is still wet. If it dries out the risk of accidential ignition greatly increases.

5. Sieve the powder to get the media out, spread it out on a large sheet of paper and let it dry. If possible in the sun. Needless to say you shouldn't heat it in order to dry it more quickly, just be patient.

6. When dry, sieve the black powder through a few sieves to get several fractions for different purposes.
The precipitation method

1. Take your raw charcoal and crush it with a hammer between two sheets of paper. Wear old clothing and do this outside, since it is very messy. Sieve the charcoal through a coarse sieve (about 30 mesh).

2. Weigh the charcoal. To every 100 grams of charcoal, add 67 grams of sulfur, and fill 1/4th of your ball mill with this mixture. Put the media in and let the mill run for 8 hours.

3. While the mill is running, place 600 ml isopropylalcohol in a large container for every 100 grams of charcoal/sulfur mix you have, and place it in the fridge.

4. When you open your mill, you should find an incredibly fine black/greyish powder. Sieve this to get the media of the mill out, and weigh it. In a separate container, place 75 grams of potassium nitrate for every 25 grams of charcoal/sulfur powder you have. Put the potassium nitrate in an old pan, and add 40 ml tap water for every 100 grams of potassium nitrate.

5. Place the pan on the stove and bring it to a boil while continuesly stirring. When the solution starts boiling, start adding small amounts of water while stirring all the time untill all the potassium nitrate has dissolved.

6. Add an extra 10 ml tap water and the charcoal/sulfur mixture to the boiling potassium nitrate solution. Stir the charcoal/sulfur mixture in the solution. Make sure there are no dry clumbs left.

7. By now, your isopropylalcohol should have cooled to at least 0 deg C or colder. Take the isopropylalcohol outside, and pour the potasium nitrate solution/charcoal/sulfur into the cold isopropylalcohol. Make sure there are no sources of ignition nearby! Stir for a few seconds.

8. Cool the mixture again to 0 deg C at the fastest rate you can. The faster the better.

9. Filter the mixture through an old cloth, and squeeze to get all the liquid out. Discard the black liquid.

10. Spread the black mush out on a sheet of paper, and dry it in the sun. Don't try to dry it inside since it will produce a lot of flammable vapour from the ispropylalcohol. When it is still slightly wet to the touch, press it through a sieve to corn it. Then dry it further.

11. When dry, sieve the black powder through a few sieves to get several fractions for different purposes.


Back to main page

Article found at http://www.wfvisser.dds.nl/EN/bp_making_EN.html

Dale53
01-08-2009, 01:12 AM
I'll make one statement concerning making your own black powder. Goex's themselves have had very destructive explosions. The inventor of Pyrodex and several co-workers were killed in an explosion. THEY WERE PROFESSIONALS.

We had King's powder mills not far from here and they had SERIOUS explosions. And this from people who understood what they were doing. This is NOT something you do yourself without serious professional knowledge unless you have a death wish.

Just because you got away with it a time or two does not make it either safe or desirable.

Dale53

cajun shooter
01-08-2009, 11:03 AM
The Jan. issue of THE COWBOY CHRONICLE has a full article on doing this very thing. How to make your own batch of BP. Dale, I will agree with what you said, but we all can go on our next car ride, airplane trip, or fall in the damn shower. A good friend of my wife's and I died last year while standing on a bucket to change a light bulb. If someone wants to take the risk of making powder, then I say "GO FOR IT". I'm 61 and have been riding motorcycles since the age of 14. I've had my share of hospital visit's from riding but that feeling you get when you twist that throttle is still full of excitement. People have been injured from shooting firearms, but you do that don't you? None of us will leave here standing up and I would hate to leave knowing that someone talked me out of something that I really wanted to do.

Old Ironsights
01-08-2009, 11:23 AM
I'll make one statement concerning making your own black powder. Goex's themselves have had very destructive explosions. The inventor of Pyrodex and several co-workers were killed in an explosion. THEY WERE PROFESSIONALS.

We had King's powder mills not far from here and they had SERIOUS explosions. And this from people who understood what they were doing. This is NOT something you do yourself without serious professional knowledge unless you have a death wish.

Just because you got away with it a time or two does not make it either safe or desirable.

Dale53

Remembering that it's ILLEGAL...

Never make more than 1lb at a time.

An uncontained FOOMP of 1lb ain't pretty, but it won't kill ya much either. ;)

Dale53
01-08-2009, 05:31 PM
I was only going to make one statement regarding this, but of course, in a free society we are free to do as we wish and I do NOT suggest legislation to prevent this. However, I have specific information as to the dangers of trying to make your own black powder vs the benefits. As a result, I also have the moral imperative to warn others - they can choose to ignore it or not. I HAVE made my own explosives and a lot more powerful than BP. MY excuse is that I was very young. After a good friend lost part of his hand, I reconsidered about the risk and decided that is wasn't an acceptable risk.

I DO understand risk - I raced motorcycles for ten years. I did then and do now consider it an acceptable risk, for me. I have back packed in wilderness areas on my own for a period of years - again, an acceptable risk. I have run whitewater in dead of winter (breaking ice to get my canoe or kayak into the water). I have capsized in same frigid water (more than once). Again, an acceptable risk.

All of these risks were helped to be acceptable by me doing serious research, lots of practice (raised my skill level considerably) and the use of proper safety equipment.

Blindly making black powder, in my view, does NOT make it anywhere NEAR safe (anyone that has to ask about making black powder does NOT have near the knowledge to have it even remotely safe or rather, an acceptable risk).

This is my last word on this as with other things that can be discussed, I doubt that I'll change anyone's mind. It is enough that I sounded a warning. At least, any who reads this might realize, if they didn't before, that there is some risk involved.

Dale53

cajun shooter
01-09-2009, 10:24 AM
Dale, Let me say this. I admire your line of thought and fully understand your post. A chance to inflict harm to your body instead of spending $10. When I first started out as police officer in 1976, I had your same line of thought. I think all rookie cops do. We are the knights in shining white armoer and we are here to save you. After about 5 years I realized that I was in a losing fight. It didn't matter how much we told people not to drink and drive and do several other crazy things. They did it anyway!! I then realized that my job was to help those that would accept my help and pick up the ones that didn't. Please don't feel like no one was listening. Your post are always in the intrest of others.

Old Ironsights
01-09-2009, 12:47 PM
I was only going to make one statement regarding this, but of course, in a free society we are free to do as we wish and I do NOT suggest legislation to prevent this. ...

Too late. The legislation is, does and has existed "preventing" us from doing as we wish in this "free" society.

http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexplolaw/2007edition/index.htm

http://www.atf.gov/explarson/fedexplolaw/2007edition/q_and_a.pdf, Pg 3

Black powder is an explosive material for purposes of Federal explosives laws and regulations. However, the law exempts from regulation commercially manufactured black powder in quantities not exceeding 50 pounds (as well as percussion caps, safety and pyrotechnic fuses, quills, quick and slow matches, and friction primers) intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16) or in antique devices exempted from the term “destructive device” in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(4). However, persons engaged in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in black powder in any quantity must have a Federal explosives license. [18 U.S.C. 841(c), 841(d), 845(a)(5); 27 CFR 555.11: definitions of “explosives” and “explosive materials”, 555.141(b)]

Essentially, the only exceptions to the "manufacture of explosives" prohibition is for agricultural mixing of ANFO (and analogues) for immediate use and the mixing of commercially produed Theatrical Flash Powder for immediate use.

Tannerite barely skirts this issue but essentially relies on the Flash Powder exception.

In this group of regulations, they do not make the same differentiation of the definiton of "in the businss of" that they do for Ammunition. The Personal Exemption for Black Powder is for USE, not Manufacture.