Waltz 22lr resizing die

[eveready]

Is anyone using a Waltz 22 rimfire resizing die. Watched a video where they run a 22lr into the die which expands the bullet and sizes it to .225 diameter . Makes every bullet consistent for better accuracy.

[Duckdog]

I don't use that one, but i use a Paco Kelly that size2 from 22. 223, 224, and 225 and also changes the tip to different configurations. Pretty slick.

[uscra112]

I made my own, works just like the Waltz tool. Much better than the Paco Kelly tool in that you have precise control of the swaging force and final dimension. Did an extensive series of tests about 6 years ago. Bottom line is that it definitely does improve the accuracy of cheap commodity ammo, but does nothing but harm to dedicated target ammo like SK. One type that did very well when swaged up to .2250 bullet diameter was MiniMags.

The greatest gain seems to be with commodity guns that have loose "sporting" chambers. (Ruger, I'm lookin' at you.) Reason being that increasing the bullet diameter better fills the throat, which holds the round closer to the bore axis at discharge. Most of my testing was done with a stock 10/22, some with a mint Marlin 39a, and some with a very accurate Ballard custom rifle. The Ballard has a Lilja competition chamber, and showed the least improvement from the swaging.

[Naphtali]

Is anyone using a Waltz 22 rimfire resizing die. Watched a video where they run a 22lr into the die which expands the bullet and sizes it to .225 diameter . Makes every bullet consistent for better accuracy. I have owned one for more than a decade. Unfortunately, acquisition and blossoming of MCTD occurred at the same time. Shooting, hunting, being pleasant, etc. went on what appeared to be permanent hold. Thankfully, living has improved.

As I type, my "gun room" aka "sewing room" is egregiously disorganized. Having substantial 22 LR ammunition, target firearms, and pretty much year around small game hunting, I'll test guns with ammunition as-is. If hasenpfeffer acceptable, Waltz die set remains unused. If unacceptable, I'll work with the semiwadcutter forming die. I believe this will yield effective killing effect with accuracy.

[Larry Gibson]

I've had a Paco Kelly die since '05 and have used it extensively. I use a small drill press as an arbor press in lieu of using a mallet with it so it works giving consistent results as the drill press is adjustable with a stop. Testing numerous different types of 22LR from cheap bulk to expensive match showed a marked increase in accuracy with the bottom end ammunition. No improvement in accuracy with quality match ammunition. Testing was done in a very accurate match rifle, a quality Remington M504 sporter and a Ruger 10-22 with factory barrel. What I found suited me the most was using the HP tool in bulk Federal, Winchester and Remington HV HPs to size the bullets to .225 and to reform the HP to a larger opening. The increase in accuracy and vastly improved terminal performance was immediately noticeable shooting small "picket pins" (ground squirrels) and larger "red diggers" (a Large ground squirrel found in high mountain meadows). The improvement in terminal performance has to be seen to be believed.

I then got a Waltz die a couple years later. Much simpler and easier to use. I mostly use it to size (.225) the bullet and open the HPs also. I often do 525 carton of bulk 22LR HV HPs while watching tv. I use the Waltz die in a Lee hand press which makes it very handy. I also really like to use CCI Blazer @@LR as sizing greatly improves the accuracy by reducing the number of flyers. With my M504 sporter 1/2 to 3/4" ten shot groups at 50 yards are the norm. HPing the softer Blazer bullets makes them excellent for small game/varmints as the terminal effect is greatly enhanced. I I want really excellent accuracy HPing quality match 22LR such as Lapua CenterX or Midas+, Ely, and Norma match really makes for some excellent small squirrel shooting out to 100+ yards.
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[popper]

Does it size the case? SIL has a Marlin 60 that won't feed modern stuff due to tight chamber.

[Wayne Smith]

Paco Kelly die will size the case to .222 or .221 for tight chambers. He has two sizers, sent me both since I told him I have two BSA Martini Internationals and at that time was teaching Boy Scouts to shoot. One sizes .224 and .225, the other .222 or .221 if I remember right.

[uscra112]

My homebrew sizes to .2250, and that enters the Lilja chamber in my Ballard OK. I'd look at the Model 60 to see if the firing pin strike has peened a burr into the chamber mouth. A problem so common that there are special tools made to correct it.

[shooterg]

Even if you only need it once, worth it.

https://www.tandemkross.com/ChamberMadeChamberIroningSwage

[GBertolet]

Is Neil Waltz still in business? I sent him an email several days ago, with no response.

[recumbent]

Is Neil Waltz still in business? I sent him an email several days ago, with no response.

Try calling him.
Here is his info:
Neal Waltz, 4105 Hyatt Avenue N.W., Massillon OH 44646-1435 Telephone: 330-837-4818.

[uscra112]

If you've got a lathe, or a friend with one, the tool is not hard to make. Mine started with an unwanted .44 Magnum seater die. Make a sleeve to press into it, drill and ream the sleeve to the diameter you want, and make whatever nose-forming mandrel(s) you need. The die's adjuster screw does the rest, suitably shortened. You do need a die with a large diameter adjuster plug, so the RCBS type with the small threaded spindles are out. You'd have to buy the reamer ($25 on Amazon) and a .22LR shellholder.

Better yet! Get one of the new Lee "expander" dies. The sizer sleeve and the nose-forming mandrels can be a sliding fit inside the die body, adjusted by the factory-supplied top screw. I think it's NOE that's already making a family of expanders for that die. Talk him into making the sleeve and nose-former mandrels as a kit. Both very simple CNC lathe parts. Another product that ought to sell.

Add: Anybody wants to try this, I've already whipped up a dimensioned sketch in AutoCAD. Start with 9/16 round stock and the cuts are minimal. I'd prototype it myself, but my back is so bad that standing in front of a lathe for even a few minutes is torture. p/m me for the file.

[GBertolet]

I called Mr. Waltz. He is still in business. I am in the process of getting one of his die sets.

[tejano]

How does the Waltz die cost?

[Nueces]

How does the Waltz die cost?

For the order I placed a few days ago, Neal said $135 plus $15 shipping, for a total of $150.

[tejano]

Thank you.

[GBertolet]

I ordered one, and it came in 6 days. Fast service. Mine must be undersized, as .2241, as what mine sizes to. Verified with two different micrometers. I haven't done any serious testing with ammo that's been through it, as the weather won't cooperate. I have a 513T, and a 75 Win target available to test with. I may have to try lapping to the .225 diameter, if the .2241 bullets don't shoot better than the factory diameters. I do know that the bullets are a consistent .2241 diameter, after going through the die, which should be a positive thing.

[uscra112]

.2241 is not big enough for the majority of "sporting" rifle chambers. And in my testing, bumping didn't have much effect when the ammo was fired in my Ballard target rifle.

[tejano]

GBertolet, I look forward to your shooting report when your weather improves.

[Petrol & Powder]

Does it size the case? SIL has a Marlin 60 that won't feed modern stuff due to tight chamber.
NO, in the process of flat pointing the bullet (or placing a hollow point in the bullet) it swages the bullet to a slightly larger diameter. It doesn't act on the casing.

[GBertolet]

The only time this sizer would act upon the case, is if it is larger in diameter, than what the bullet was being sized to. And that is not supposed to be.

The die set comes standard with 2 bullet punches. A hollow pointer, and a Eley punch, which is a flat point with a little nub in the center, which Eley uses on their match ammo. It has a good track record. In addition, I had requested a 3rd punch, at extra cost, which is a true flat point.

You can make some nasty looking hollowpoints, in addition to some almost wadcutter bullets, using the flat punch. I have seen advertised, trim dies, that you can file flat the tips of the bullets to get the flat points. Using the Waltz dieset, you can accomplish this instantly, without losing any bullet weight. Lots of interesting prospects, which in the future will be explored. The trouble now, is getting, different ammo to try.

[Forrest r]

Mine sizes to .224" & does pretty good with low grade match ammo. Cheap blammo ammo, not so much.

[GBertolet]

I lapped mine out. It measures now .2248, which is good enough. I tried a small lot of CCI std velocity ammo. It was a little breezy, but I was getting 5 shot 1/2" range groups at 50 yards, between the gusts, with the 513T. Not much difference between the before and after. If there was any, it was shooter induced. Of course the CCI ammo was .224 right out of the box, and was good accurate ammo to start with. I have some CCI Blazer ammo, that I think might show more of a difference. There are many intricacies here to affect accuracy. Overall length, type of punch you are using, which lot and brand of ammo, and what rifle you are using. You could fire a lot of rounds, until you find the magic combination. Eventually, I will get there.

[Larry Gibson]

I ordered one, and it came in 6 days. Fast service. Mine must be undersized, as .2241, as what mine sizes to. Verified with two different micrometers. I haven't done any serious testing with ammo that's been through it, as the weather won't cooperate. I have a 513T, and a 75 Win target available to test with. I may have to try lapping to the .225 diameter, if the .2241 bullets don't shoot better than the factory diameters. I do know that the bullets are a consistent .2241 diameter, after going through the die, which should be a positive thing.

Are to using a punch (the dimple one) to actually swage the bullet out to a larger diameter? Simply running the rounds up into the die w/o swaging with the nose punch will not increase the diameter.

[Larry Gibson]

I lapped mine out. It measures now .2248, which is good enough. I tried a small lot of CCI std velocity ammo. It was a little breezy, but I was getting 5 shot 1/2" range groups at 50 yards, between the gusts, with the 513T. Not much difference between the before and after. If there was any, it was shooter induced. Of course the CCI ammo was .224 right out of the box, and was good accurate ammo to start with. I have some CCI Blazer ammo, that I think might show more of a difference. There are many intricacies here to affect accuracy. Overall length, type of punch you are using, which lot and brand of ammo, and what rifle you are using. You could fire a lot of rounds, until you find the magic combination. Eventually, I will get there.

There certainly are many variables. Having gone through many different testing gyrations I've simplified it considerably so it works for me when testing new lots of ammo (Usually a "brick" of 500 or two) or different 22LR ammunition. In testing for improvement of accuracy I've simplified it to 3 basic different swage (either with the dimple or the HP) lengths.

Using the dimple for example; I found, if there was going to be an improvement of accuracy, it would occur with the nose tip swaged to close to one of 3 different meplat diameters. Those being; .120", .140 and .175". You see them here;

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Once the die is adjusted for those nose meplat diameters the OAL of the die [from mouth of die to top of seating stem] is measured for each and recorded for that brand and lot of ammunition. The consistent OAL can be obtained by simply adjusting the OAL of the die to the desired measurement. For the 3 different meplat diameters as pictured the OALs were; 3.285", 3.265" and 3.245". Of course each different type/make of 22LR will have different measurements because of different OALs of the ammunition and different nose shapes. Thant's why recording for future use the OAL of the adjusted Waltz die is important.

Using this method it is easy to repeat with excellent consistency the swaging to the same consistency additional ammunition of the same type/lot if acquired. With some type/makes such as CCI Blazer i've found the one 'accuracy" setting seems to work well for all different lots.

With HPing I measure the die OAL when the desired diameter of the reswaged HP is achieved giving reliability of feeding, accuracy and increased terminal effectiveness. .

[uscra112]

Larry makes a good point. Swage just enough to get the bullet enlarged to the size of the die. More seems to do harm rather than good to the accuracy.