control melt of wheel weights

[odette]

I have an LP fish fryer burner and cast iron kettle for melting lead. I just picked up 2 - 5 gal. buckets of wheel weights and seen where others have used their melting pots with an electronic set point to control the temperature to keep from melting zinc wheel weights. Is their a way to control the temperature on an LP burner like a fish fryer to keep it from getting too hot and melting the zinc or is the only way by watching a thermometer and manually turning gas up or down.
Anyone melting large batches lead and zinc mixed wheel weights with an LP gas burner?

[wwboolitmaker]

I do it often, I just use a laser thermometer to make sure I'm not getting over 700 degrees. It's always worked fine for me.

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[Mk42gunner]

Sort out the zinc before melting.

You might miss one or two, but they will surprise you when they pop to the surface shortly after you remove the clips the first time.

It does take a while to check every single ww with a set of side cutters, but it is better than ruining a whole batch of lead.

Robert

[bangerjim]

I do it often, I just use a laser thermometer to make sure I'm not getting over 700 degrees. It's always worked fine for me.

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A laser thermometer will NOT read completely correctly when pointed at a shiny surface like a clean lead melt pot. Float a black steel washer on the surface and shoot at that. Pretty accurate for "skin" temp only, not deep in the pot.

An IR devise works on "black body" thermal radiation measurements and really likes to have a dull dark surface to read.

And..............I paint the ends of my Lee aluminum molds with BirchwoodCasey AlumaBlack solution to create a black end for the IR gun to see.

You have a very "LOOSE" control of melt temps with a fish fryer! VERY easy to over shoot and melt the zinkers if not careful. You need to sort extra carefully using that style of melt process. I have found ( thru LOTS of experimentation) that up to 5% Zn will not mess things for you at all. Just slightly lighter boolits, so adjust your powder load accordingly.....if you are splitting hairs a 1000 yards! Best not to melt Zn in there, but a little is not going to "ruin the whole pot" as several in the dark distant past have bemoaned on here!!!!!!!!

Good luck!

banger

[gwpercle]

I will not take the chance of contaminating a big pot of wheel weight metal because the propane fryer put out so much heat I wasn't able to skim all the zinkers out before they melted ...
That sounds good on paper but plans like that can go to heck in a hand basket really fast .

Wheel weights are too hard to come by ... I sit down with a pair of side cutters and test every weight .
I may be lazy ... but I'm not stoopid !
Gary

[Hossfly]

I thought about just melting the whole batch with out sorting the zinc out, then I read about not filling pot with mixed because bottom of pot may melt zinc before the rest melts.

So I sort, got plenty time retired, sort now gets easier when you know what to look for. Cherry pick the lead easy peasy, some hard to tell with out side cutters, you don’t have to cut each lead one just the suspects.

If you do miss zincer and keep your melt below 700’ it will be in there just floating, skim out with clips and anything else floating.

Or you can and I have, get pot to liquid state and add hand scoops of mixed, watch real close and the ones that don’t melt real quick skim them out, bet they’re zinc or steel.

Don’t walk away or get distracted, that propane turned up high will run way hot in no time. You have to pay attention, just cut it off, come back later, it aint going no where.

Also don’t add cold ww to pot that’s liquid hot, it takes very little moisture to cause violent steam reaction. Of course wear appropriate attire, eye protection, no shorts, no flip flops. Make sure your ww are either hot and plenty dry. Best to start with cold pot and heat slowly especially with cast iron pot. Old cut off propane or Freon tank best and cheapest.

Adding auto control to LP melting pot can be done, but very expensive, not worth the effort unless doing commercial. It would be including a variable type gas valve, or some type of solenoid controlling. YMMV

[jim147]

I have several gas valves around here I could set up to run propane with a PID but it would cost a lot more to do I think.

[bangerjim]

I have several gas valves around here I could set up to run propane with a PID but it would cost a lot more to do I think.

Running 4-20 modulating control from a PID controller to modulating gas valves is a total overkill on your part. I do industrial and commercial temperature and process control schemes and it is VERY expensive. I seriously doubt if your gas valves are modulating 4-20 madc motor controlled control valves. More like just simple on-off solenoid slammers. Not very good for controlling heat. You need a pilot light to relight each time the valve opens. Give it some logical thought B4 EVER attempting that.

Just keep throttling your fish fryer down after the Pb starts to melt! Simple HUMAN control is the best.

And sort your weights!!!!!!!!!!!


banger

[jimlj]

Before I retired I replaced many gas valves on furnaces. You could buy a new gas valve for less than $80 for most applications. I don't see any reason you couldn't hook up a PID to a gas valve to control temperature. I think the burner assembly and gas valve from an old Coleman mobile home furnace would be simple to adapt and control with a PID to smelt lead. I'll bet I threw 20 or more of them in the dumpster over the years.

[farmbif]

like mk42gunner said-- pinch each piece with a pair of dikes--wire cutter. if it does not get indented by clippers. separate it out.
its well worth the time and effort to do this. I would not rely on a temp control on propane or natural gas such as a water heater or other control system would use. I'm just guessing but a control for such an application that could reliably be trusted to keep accurate temp would probably cost a whole bunch of money, much more than a bunch of pots of casting alloy.

[Murphy]

I haven't had the need to buy any wheel weights in years. My last buy was 14 years ago. I know that doesn't put me totally in the clear of Zinc and steel. I haven't touched any of that batch and it weighed in at 1,405 pounds. I did a little inventory the other day. I probably won't be needing to smelt any of it anytime soon. I do though, need to go ahead and render it down to ingots to clear up a little room in the back of the shop. :)

Murphy

[Conditor22]

The problem with trying to control the melt temperature is you can't get an accurate reading until a lot of it is already melted :(.

Just sort out all the ZN (zinc) you can, it's ok if you miss a few they will harden the alloy miss too many and you have a problem.

Usually the zinc ones (clip-on and stick on are all clearly marked "ZN"

[lightman]

I always sort my weights. My burner and pot set-up will easily get the bottom of the pot hot enough to melt zinc before the weights on the surface melt. Sorting weights is a PITA but like Hossfly said, it gets easier and faster as you do some.

[jim147]

Running 4-20 modulating control from a PID controller to modulating gas valves is a total overkill on your part. I do industrial and commercial temperature and process control schemes and it is VERY expensive. I seriously doubt if your gas valves are modulating 4-20 madc motor controlled control valves. More like just simple on-off solenoid slammers. Not very good for controlling heat. You need a pilot light to relight each time the valve opens. Give it some logical thought B4 EVER attempting that.

Just keep throttling your fish fryer down after the Pb starts to melt! Simple HUMAN control is the best.

And sort your weights!!!!!!!!!!!


banger

You quoted me saying it would cost a lot. I did think about it. Why question me? Why is everyone so aggressive these days?

I do have both types of valves sitting here. It what I used to do as a living. I might need write some custom script for the Pi but that just adds to the cost. I wasn't trying to sell him one just saying it could be done.

[dale2242]

I have been casting for over 50 years.
I ALWAYS sort my WWs with side cutters.
Yes it takes time but I haven`t got one zinc WW in my mix all theses years.

[bangerjim]

Before I retired I replaced many gas valves on furnaces. You could buy a new gas valve for less than $80 for most applications. I don't see any reason you couldn't hook up a PID to a gas valve to control temperature. I think the burner assembly and gas valve from an old Coleman mobile home furnace would be simple to adapt and control with a PID to smelt lead. I'll bet I threw 20 or more of them in the dumpster over the years.

But those furnace valves you used were on-off and involved a ignition system of sorts (pilot light). Just slamming a valve on and off is not going to control a small lead pot any better than a fish fryer.

To gain good control you would need motor operated 4-20 madc control to throttle the gas flow up and down as needed. that would control the temp very accurately. EXTREMELY high expense is why simple home heating systems use on-off slammer valves and expensive industrial furnaces use motor operated throttling valves.

I engineer and sell commercial control systems using 4-20 madc driven controllers, heaters, motors, and VFD's, so I know what it takes to do it. Not just some Coleman furnace valve.


I know the world of digital controllers and their operations and uses very well, and believe me, slapping a Proportional / Integral / Derivative controller on something is NOT the way to improve everything.

[Duckiller]

Sort your wheel weights. Need to throw out zinc and iron weights. Clip on and stick on weights go in different piles to be made into ingots. Stick on weights(pure lead almost) is too good to randomly mix in with clip on weights. It is all a hobby. Hobbies take time and keep you out of trouble if you were doing other things. SORT!

[odette]

thank you all. I am sorting and using side cutter.

[remy3424]

Murphy, get after that big stach, it will be a bigger job every year you wait! We aren't getting any younger!!

I sort all of mine, CO, SO, ZN, steel, and trash....sidecutter

[MrWolf]

Another side cutter here. Not worth the chance especially with how hard ww's are to get anymore.