Best Molds For .223 in AR Platform?

[TurkeyHuntsman]

Group, I'd like to try my hand at casting some .223 boolits for use in gas-operated AR. I realize this poses additional challenges, since pressures (and thus velocities) must to be high enough to cycle the action.

For starters, I guess any boolit running in that environment would have to be a gas-checked type. My first question regards leading. What type(s) of lube have you been successful with? Does the boolit need to be powder coated to prevent lead from clogging up the gas port? Will a 45-45-10 tumble lube coating be adequate to keep the gas port clean...or is this not as much of an issue as one might fear it is?

I see that LEE has an inexpensive 55 gr .223 GC mold. Does anybody have experience with that one? Can it be pushed to pressures that will cycle an AR? Accuracy?

What about molds from other companies for .223? Anything really stand out as a superior performer in an AR platform? You don't see much discussion of .223 molds - casting for this high velocity caliber does not appear to be very popular.

Thanks for any advice.
TH in AZ

[Wolfdog91]

Hello ! I'm currently messing with the Lee mold and so far my best load has been at the 2200fps mark giving right over 1"@50 these are just my starting loads though lol.And I'm going to be doing more testing soon.
Some things I've learned though from alot of reading and PM's. Power coating is one of the better things to do with AR's especially give you almost kinda a jacket type deal on your bullet compared to traditional lubes.
2. Weight sorting will help with accuracy
3. Don't size to .224 eveyone I've talked to who's had good success with .223 cast sizes .225 and above.
4. High pressure = gas checks

Seems the .223 is just a finicky little bullet to cast for ,eveything has to be done just a little better. A little more precise and a little less traditionally.
I've actually been doing a little videos series one me trying to get it working with my AR. So far it's been pretty fun . Mabye it can help you out a little ��

https://youtu.be/pVzye6523AE

As far as other mold you would look into NOE's molds. They have a lot of different variations in .22cal.
I'm no expert at all but I really hope some of what I said helps ��

[TurkeyHuntsman]

It helps, thanks, Wolfdog! Can you please tell me: 1) What alloy do you use? 2) what barrel length and twist rate in your AR? 3) Which gas checks are you using...Hornady copper or another brand? I've read that with these little boolits, even the type of gas check will have an affect on accuracy.

[Conditor22]

I use both the Lee and the RCBS molds

cast out of COWW, PC then quench to harden over 21BHN or cast out of linotype

I make my own GC out of aluminum litho sheet or .08 dead soft copper

I have pushed these boolits over 3200 FPS and yes they cycle my mini 14 1-9 or 1-10 (not sure)

I prefer the lightest accurate load that cycles my guns --- still working on load development for the 223 looking to get I Wylde 223 1 - 12 barrel for an AR

[Wolfdog91]

I use both the Lee and the RCBS molds

cast out of COWW, PC then quench to harden over 21BHN or cast out of linotype

I make my own GC out of aluminum litho sheet or .08 dead soft copper

I have pushed these boolits over 3200 FPS and yes they cycle my mini 14 1-9 or 1-10 (not sure)

I prefer the lightest accurate load that cycles my guns --- still working on load development for the 223 looking to get I Wylde 223 1 - 12 barrel for an AR
Yeah basically what he said lol. Ole conditor here knows a thing or two about cast .22 and he's who really have me the good advice that got me going lol.

As far as alloy again just what he said. 100% clip on wheel weights. I drop them in water the second they come out the mold which hardens them then the second I pull them out my toaster oven ( powder coating) I dump them in water as well. Gave me a BHN of around 19-21.
The hard BHN, good PC jacket ,and gas check seem to be the winning combo. That being said seems pushing them over 2500fps is just not good accuracy was but mabye this will be different with a better Boolits design. Thinking some of the one made specifically for PC sized larger may be the ticket but we will see
And I'm using Hornady gas checks. Out of a plain jane 16" 1-7 twist flat top ar

I've only ran 50 rounds total BUT the possibilities are lookin good !

277144

[TurkeyHuntsman]

Wow, drop that flyer out Wolfdog and you have 2 MOA left on the other three! Nice group from a garden variety AR! What powder gave you that?

Are both you fellas running your PC'd boolits through a LEE .225 push-thru sizer, or do they already come out at the desired diameter when using COWW alloy?

[fcvan]

I started out with the Lyman 225-415, which Lee Precision copied. First attempted win my Mini 14, and it did okay. I built an AR and tested cycling damage on lubed boolits by hand cycling and the nose took a beating. Shortly after, I started powder coating and the nose wasn't taking a beating during normal cycling at the range. Once I had the sights dialed in the AR put 5 in an inch at 100 yards.

I was also making my own gas checks which was a pain, almost as much as seating the little buggers. So, I bought the NOE 225-62 RN which is plain based without a lube groove just for powder coating. Using the same load as before I get 2250 fps out of a 16" barrel, 2450 from a 24" barrel. Much fun, very easy to ASBBPC and accurate as the Lyman boolit. Cast in the AR is devastating on tin cans.

[Wolfdog91]

Wow, drop that flyer out Wolfdog and you have 2 MOA left on the other three! Nice group from a garden variety AR! What powder gave you that?

Are both you fellas running your PC'd boolits through a LEE .225 push-thru sizer, or do they already come out at the desired diameter when using COWW alloy?

Thanks ! Not sure if that's completely just a fluke but accurate 2015 has given me two groups out of 50 various rounds ( well 20 rd of sighters and 30rd of r round group of other loads) of that size . I had problems with unburnt power but I'm working on that. Win 748 is another that's supposed to be good but couldn't really get it to act right. Mabye at lowes velocities but all mine where going from 2300fps to 2600fps and yeah 3" groups aaaalllll day but that's about it . And I'm actually using the NOE bushing sizer. Really like it, and I explain why here in this video because it's kinda alot to type lol. Again I'm no expert !

https://youtu.be/QyrDk2qQXc0

[Wolfdog91]

I started out with the Lyman 225-415, which Lee Precision copied. First attempted win my Mini 14, and it did okay. I built an AR and tested cycling damage on lubed boolits by hand cycling and the nose took a beating. Shortly after, I started powder coating and the nose wasn't taking a beating during normal cycling at the range. Once I had the sights dialed in the AR put 5 in an inch at 100 yards.

I was also making my own gas checks which was a pain, almost as much as seating the little buggers. So, I bought the NOE 225-62 RN which is plain based without a lube groove just for powder coating. Using the same load as before I get 2250 fps out of a 16" barrel, 2450 from a 24" barrel. Much fun, very easy to ASBBPC and accurate as the Lyman boolit. Cast in the AR is devastating on tin cans.

Posts like this make me want to get that mold more and more lol ! Don't they have a HP version as well ?

[fcvan]

Wolfdog91, I just went to the NOE website and did not see an HP listed, but it may be added I suppose. In my experience, you won't need a hollow point. Cast lead without a copper jacket mushrooms quite well at 2250 FPS. As for the tin can thing, shoot a tin can with FMJ and it just pokes a hole and the can doesn't move, like it doesn't know it was hit. Hit with cast, slightly off-center, it tears 1/2 to 3/4" strip half way around the can, and the can flies 10 to 15 yards towards the backstop. I hate tin cans, they need to know their dead.

As far as little furry critters, I have dispatched a few Rats, Squirrels, and 1 O'possum with violent results. I don't eats Rats or O'possum, but the squirrels make good Chile.

[mvozz]

I was going to start a thread but this looks just like the right place to put this info up here. I talked to Al at NOE about his lack of 22 moulds, He said he is a bit busy right now but will be running 22 moulds this week. I was going to start watching his website so I can snag a 70gr PC mould if I can. I just started shooting those in my 223 bull barrel Handi Rifle. Powder coated Zombie Green they are showing real promise. I bought some of his try before you buy boolets and have been so pleased I just have to have the mould. I wanted to start out slow so I started with 5.5gr of Trail Boss and accuracy was outstanding. My neighbor wants to try them in his AR so we are going to start speeding them up just to see how fast we can get them to go. Fun project!!

[ryanmattes]

I have a 1:9 barrel, so I'd need something in the 50-60gr range. Prefer not to get into GC, since I'll PC anyway, and keep to the lower end velocities.

With cast in an AR, do you get better results with RN, FN, or SP boolits? I assume FN would mushroom better, for varmints, but at present that's not a big need, and I have enough j-words, should the need arise.

I'm only looking for plinking ammo, so I don't need to push out past 200 yards.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[fcvan]

mvozz, I will watch to see your results with the 70 gr boolit, success might depend on rate of twist for the heavier boolit. My HR BBL is older with a 1 - 12" ROT which helps with keeping the RMS down for faster speed. Personal load goes 2450 FPS through the Handi, 2250 through the Mini 14 with 1 - 10", and AR with a 1 - 9". I quit there as I was happy with the load being universal for 3 different rifles. I do have a 1 - 7" AR pistol which drops the FPS to help keep the RPM below threshold for accuracy. I doubt I will buy a heavier boolit mold but never say never, right? For now, with supply outpaced by demand, I am in no rush, but I will look forward to your results.

BTW, I used Zombie Green (Prismatic Powder Tecate Green) for my workup loads, and will go back to black when I shoot all I have loaded, plus the 20 pounds of the green I've already cast/coated/sized. I still have 10 pounds of the Lyman 225-415 cast and coated, and have plenty of gas checks made and bagged. That's over 3500 ready to go and I have plenty of powder and primers for that. It will take a while as I only shoot about 40 each range trip.

Most of the time, I shoot the AR in 9mm with the Lee 102 RN or the Lee 125. I've been loading the 102 to save on my lead stash, I'm down to about 200 pounds now. Yes, I know, the RN 62 would make that lead go further, but that is more IMR 4227 and SRPs, I have plenty of Unique and SPPs to run the 9mm AR pistol and carbines, as well as mine and my Wife's Glocks and others.

[mvozz]

I checked this morning, no 70 gr moulds at NOE. He is showing a few others though. I will just keep watching. I am hoping for somewhere around 2500 FPS just in case I run into some wild Tannerite out in the desert!:wink:

[TurkeyHuntsman]

Once I had the sights dialed in the AR put 5 in an inch at 100 yards.

That IS rather impressive performance from a cast boolit running at such a high velocity! Wow! I have shot factory M855s and seen far worse performance, like 2 or 3 MOA (the MIL spec for 5.56 in govt issue M4 is a crummy 3 MOA or better.)

Looks like the LEE die might do, but I'll need to PC the boolits for sure and add the gas checks. Those tiny GCs are a pain.

[TurkeyHuntsman]

Fcvan, you didn't mention what powder you used to get that 1 MOA.

Being that I've got 1:7 and 1:8 twist 16" barrels here - I might want to run with a heavier boolit than the LEE mold produces. And if I can get away without a GC...even better!

Fcvan and Wolfdog...is there any chance you gents would be open to selling me a small qty of whatever different boolits you have been casting? I'd sure like to "try before I buy" a mold. I just want to buy ONE mold to keep as a backup for when my factory ammo runs out, and I'm sure it will with the panic buying that is bound to continue.

Please PM me if anybody is willing to sell some of the different cast .225's for me to try out first.

Thanks for all the advice and discussion,

[fcvan]

Fcvan, you didn't mention what powder you used to get that 1 MOA.

Being that I've got 1:7 and 1:8 twist 16" barrels here - I might want to run with a heavier boolit than the LEE mold produces. And if I can get away without a GC...even better!

Fcvan and Wolfdog...is there any chance you gents would be open to selling me a small qty of whatever different boolits you have been casting? I'd sure like to "try before I buy" a mold. I just want to buy ONE mold to keep as a backup for when my factory ammo runs out, and I'm sure it will with the panic buying that is bound to continue.

Please PM me if anybody is willing to sell some of the different cast .225's for me to try out first.

Thanks for all the advice and discussion,

I used and still use a Lyman book load with IMR 4227 for the 225-415 which Lee copied design wise. I rechecked my load/range data, that was the first range day for a carbine I built for my Wife for Christmas, I love it when she smiles like she did. I also put a red dot on it and that worked well with the flip up front and rear sights. Hers was 1 in 8", slowest I could find at the time. Knowing there are RPM limits to cast boolits, I didn't want to impart too much spin.

The cast .223/5.56 does not need velocity to be effective or devastating. Oh, and the rifle rifle shot so well because I never told it that it wasn't supposed to be able to. Even so, I think it would have anyway just to spite me. Kind of like shooting lead through Glocks. Nobody told me, so I didn't tell my Glock the Wife had gifted me. I did note that Glock did not recommend shooting reloads, I don't recall the paperwork saying lead shouldn't be shot through a Glock. After all, there are commercial loads using lead, and commercial reloads using lead. I just think Glock was covering their assets by recommending no reloads.

I know for a fact that many reloaders here produce more consistent rounds than some factories that produce generic reloads, not tailored for the shooter and his/her weapon. The only close contradiction is the many M1A shooters I have known, some from here, who competed using match rounds issued by the military with repeatable results. Others may disagree and that is fine by me.

I have 3 different types of .308 rifles that I have never shot factory through. 2 were used and 1 only saw 1 box (SIG 716 Patrol) the other (M1A) I didn't know the owner, it was a consignment sale, but that owner was a co-worker with the gun shop owner before he retired from law enforcement. By all accounts, he shot a box a year and had owned it for 10. The bolt gun is a Mossberg Scout Rifle that I bought new. It nicely accepts both the M1A and AR 10 magazines.

The load I worked up for the first 2 needed no adjustment, the scout rifle shot my loads fine out of the box. Yes, a below book load with IMR 4227, 150 cast spitzer, an off-hand 100 yard tin can killer, better from the bench. I have yet to find a convenient shooting bench on a deer hunt so I practice more realistically. Tin can, boiler room, all you can ask for.

[markmars]

Hello ! I'm currently messing with the Lee mold and so far my best load has been at the 2200fps mark giving right over 1"@50 these are just my starting loads though lol.And I'm going to be doing more testing soon.
Some things I've learned though from alot of reading and PM's. Power coating is one of the better things to do with AR's especially give you almost kinda a jacket type deal on your bullet compared to traditional lubes.
2. Weight sorting will help with accuracy
3. Don't size to .224 eveyone I've talked to who's had good success with .223 cast sizes .225 and above.
4. High pressure = gas checks

Seems the .223 is just a finicky little bullet to cast for ,eveything has to be done just a little better. A little more precise and a little less traditionally.
I've actually been doing a little videos series one me trying to get it working with my AR. So far it's been pretty fun . Mabye it can help you out a little ��

https://youtu.be/pVzye6523AE

As far as other mold you would look into NOE's molds. They have a lot of different variations in .22cal.
I'm no expert at all but I really hope some of what I said helps ��

Nice video! I've been PC pistol bullets for a few months and would like to do rifle like .223. I'm wondering if it would be better to stand the bullets up as opposed to the wire mesh since any blemish would effect trajectory over longer distance.

[Wolfdog91]

Nice video! I've been PC pistol bullets for a few months and would like to do rifle like .223. I'm wondering if it would be better to stand the bullets up as opposed to the wire mesh since any blemish would effect trajectory over longer distance.

I think so honestly! Can't see any negetives of doing that other than time . Seems to me standing them up would allow for a better coating

[TurkeyHuntsman]

Revisiting my tread here to see if I left any responses hanging. Judging by the success Wolf91 and others had with the Lee die, I decided to go with that one for starters. Biggest problem now is FINDING ONE! It is a really insane situation out there...EVERYTHING is sold out: guns, ammo, brass, primers, powder, and even bullet molds. Molds...REALLY??? I have never seen anything like this before. Very disconcerting...