Reloading Primers using Toy Caps (Test Results)

[MUSTANG]

This thread will focus on rebuilding primers using Toy Caps as the initiator or total primer Charge to reload expended Small Rifle primers.

[MUSTANG]

Reloading Primers using Toy Caps and Green Dot Powder - Test #1. (Total Failure)

Used 15 expended ,one time shot, Small Rifle Primers. Disassembled anvils using a dental pick; and holding the primers cup using a set of straight stainless steel forceps.

Removed the firing pin indentation from the cup using 1/8” Harbor Freight Punch and the primer rested on a piece of Train Rail as a shop anvil. Cleaning of the cup and anvil was accomplished after anvil removal in a Harbor Freight ultrasonic cleaner with water, dawn Dish Soap, and 2 tablespoons of White Vinegar.

Using a 1/8 inch hole punch; cut out 15 Toy Cap primer Disks. Brand name is Super Bang Toy Caps from Civil War Stuff (Strickland Enterprises – Gettysburg Pa.) Web Site: https://www.civilwarstuff.com/product/roll-caps/

Placed one Cap Disk with black blister Up (blister facing the flash hole when primer loaded) in each cup.

Used a self-fabricated “Tray Tool” created from an empty plastic CCI Small Rifle for loading Primer Cups.

277041


With the Primer reloading tray in the position as shown in the picture, placed a primer cup with a Toy Cap disk in one of the holes. Then using a small Lee Plastic powder dipper, placed a small amount of Green Dot smokeless powder in the same quadrant as the Primer cup. Using a cut down business card; raked the Green Dot powder over the primer Cup with Toy cap disk – then scraped the excess off the primer cup in the opposite direction, resulting in a primer cup filled to the top edge of each primer cup with Green Dot over the Toy cap at the bottom of the primer cup, filled to the top of the Primer cup.

Compressed the powder in the Primer Cup over the Toy Cap using a chop stick. Then placed a 1/8” paper disk cut from Cash Register Tape on top of the compressed powder in the Primer Cup. Then compressed again using Chop Stick.

Used a 10 parts 91% alcohol and 1 part Ace Hardware Shellac mixture over the Cash Register Tape disk and primer. Used a dental pick dipped in the mixture to place a small drop on top of the Paper Dosk (foil); and a 2nd drop if needed to wet the disk and the Green Dot underneath. The dental pick allows a fine drop instead of an Eye Dropper that results in a large drop that is too big for the Primer Cup.

Placed an Anvil over the Paper Disk (Foil) and the Alcohol/Shellac mixture. Ensure all three legs are even, then slight compression using the wide portion of the Chop Stick. Follow up by placing the Primer onto the C-Clamp “Seating Press” as shown in the following pictures.

277042 277043

The C-Clamp needs to have a Flat jaw on the bottom so the primer cup can be seated. I have smaller cast C-Clamps that has a ridge down the middle of the Jaw area; no good as the primer will not sit flat. There is a close up view of a primer sitting on the Flat Jaw and the metal washer I used to hold on top of the Anvil before screwing down the “Press”. Since the Anvil is a Tripod; some attention to detail is required to ensure it seats straight down on all three legs. Once the anvil is seated by screwing in; use a magnifying glass in order to ensure all three legs were seated squarely and no part of the anvil sticks up above the primer cup lip. If there is one side of the Anvil higher than the lip; then use the washer in that area while screwing down the Clamp once again to seat the primer edge, the tripod anvil will shift in the cup slightly doing this and all should be well. I then take the completed (still wet) primer and seat it into a .223 case; ensuring it is fully seated. I let the primer mix dry in the brass, this test has about 60 hours drying time.

Test results: Did not load powder and ball; but shot primers only in a Savage Axis .223 with 15 seated primers in .223 cases. All 15 shots DID NOT ignite the powder charge. The fall of the firing pin was all that was heard except on or two very faint pssst sounds. Total failure of all Primers to ignite! There was light fouling residue in the barrel. I disassembled the Primers and all had small flakes of Green Dot powder come out; with a significant portion of the powder in each Primer Cup there still there. This was a cone shape of hardened powder from the affects of the Alcohol and Shellac mixture. I took what fell out and scraped some of the cone residue into a pile, touched it with a match, and it burned – but a slow burn not a fast burn.

277044

[cwtebay]

Interesting project and thank you for sharing your results. Guess that means you know of one way that doesn't work!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[n.h.schmidt]

Having done this before maybe I can save you some effort. You are using the german caps so that is good. It's easily possible to harvest the dots right off the paper. Soak a strip in water for about one min. Rub the cap paper between your thumb and forefinger . The thin cover paper will come loose and you can peal it off. keep it wet and you can lift the dots off the thick paper with a knife. Do it right and you can pile them up on the blade. Eight dots would be a good start for a small rifle primer. Do what you have been doing and seat the primers while still damp with your binder. I would forget the smokeless powder in the primer. That has not worked at all.
n.h.schmidt

[dverna]

$100/k is starting to look like a bargain.

[perotter]

Better off to use a DIY primer mix to start with than to use toy caps. There are several threads here about what, how and links for it.

[perotter]

$100/k is starting to look like a bargain.

Really $100/k isn't that bad a price for most people to pay.

When I was a pre-teen and teen I bought primers by the box of 100. Used about 200 for shotgun and about 50 for rifle a year. I don't really remember what 100 cost in the late '60s or early '70s, but I think it was like $0.50 and $1.00. So today that amount of shooting with $100/k primers would only be $25 a year.

Even if I was still shooting a minimum of 1500 rounds a week like I did 15 thru 25 years ago, $100/k primers would be ok. But with $8000 a year in costs, I'd spend that on some real nice equipment for making new cups and anvils and automated equipment of loading the cups.

But as a teen was also when I first reloaded primers, both caps and matchheads. Mainly to see if I could and just in case. When I was in college the price of even 100 primers was the difference between eating or shooting, so the 50 or so practice rounds I shoot a year was done with DIY primers.

For DIY primers, you either setup to be able to do 1000's a day for a bunch of shooting. Or to do just 25 in an evening for just a little bit of shooting.

FWIW. I think a lot of guys like to do a few DIY primers just for the peace of mind that they keep shooting if a day comes they can't buy primers at all.

[Duckdog]

I tried the roll caps, too. No real luck. Seeing this is about roll caps, I won't mention the other methods that do work better from my experience. There's other posts on those methods. I think the old roll caps I used as a kid maybe were better, but the new ones are just plain neutered. I have a few thousand of them, but I really doubt I'll use them for primers or even percussion caps.

[dverna]

Really $100/k isn't that bad a price for most people to pay.

When I was a pre-teen and teen I bought primers by the box of 100. Used about 200 for shotgun and about 50 for rifle a year. I don't really remember what 100 cost in the late '60s or early '70s, but I think it was like $0.50 and $1.00. So today that amount of shooting with $100/k primers would only be $25 a year.

Even if I was still shooting a minimum of 1500 rounds a week like I did 15 thru 25 years ago, $100/k primers would be ok. But with $8000 a year in costs, I'd spend that on some real nice equipment for making new cups and anvils and automated equipment of loading the cups.

But as a teen was also when I first reloaded primers, both caps and matchheads. Mainly to see if I could and just in case. When I was in college the price of even 100 primers was the difference between eating or shooting, so the 50 or so practice rounds I shoot a year was done with DIY primers.

For DIY primers, you either setup to be able to do 1000's a day for a bunch of shooting. Or to do just 25 in an evening for just a little bit of shooting.

FWIW. I think a lot of guys like to do a few DIY primers just for the peace of mind that they keep shooting if a day comes they can't buy primers at all.


As far as I know no one has ever shown the equipment and time to produce 1000 primers efficiently in a video. That makes me conclude it is not that simple. People will pay over $200/k instead.

I know, from what I have seen, $100/k is a better option for me.

If I had to spend an hour making 25-50 primers, I would never do it. I have a safety stock of 20k primers that I will never touch until the SHTF. I typically keep 60k plus on hand to ride out “events” like this. Those 20k primers cost me less than $500 so cheap insurance to protect my family and home and will last a lifetime if necessary. BTW, one accident while making 20k primers will cost a lot more than $500. I am lucky in that even if primers were not available I would be ok for a long time.

$100/k primers will reduce my CF shooting if that becomes the new norm. I am planning for that and will keep shooting. My hope is supply improves and to start stocking back up when prices drop to $40-50/1000.

[MrWolf]

As far as I know no one has ever shown the equipment and time to produce 1000 primers efficiently in a video. That makes me conclude it is not that simple. People will pay over $200/k instead.

I know, from what I have seen, $100/k is a better option for me.

If I had to spend an hour making 25-50 primers, I would never do it. I have a safety stock of 20k primers that I will never touch until the SHTF. I typically keep 60k plus on hand to ride out “events” like this. Those 20k primers cost me less than $500 so cheap insurance to protect my family and home and will last a lifetime if necessary. BTW, one accident while making 20k primers will cost a lot more than $500. I am lucky in that even if primers were not available I would be ok for a long time.

$100/k primers will reduce my CF shooting if that becomes the new norm. I am planning for that and will keep shooting. My hope is supply improves and to start stocking back up when prices drop to $40-50/1000.

You have mentioned in a couple of threads that making primers like this is not worth it for you. These guys are trying something and probably enjoying themselves. How about cutting them some slack and let them enjoy what they are doing?

[jonp]

This is extremely interesting but I'm wondering about the Green Dot. If you used a different powder and let them dry before seating do you think the results would be different?

I agree with MrWolf in his comment. I know that Don is bringing up a good point about cost and the level at which people will conclude buying is cheaper than the time involved but the OP wasn't doing it for cost. It was an experiment in whether the method employed would work

[GasGuzzler]

I kept these all this time for a reason. Thanks for your updates. I will try to stay up on your progress. I am also interested in learning things I may never use but should know just in case.

277100

[AndyC]

FWIW. I think a lot of guys like to do a few DIY primers just for the peace of mind that they keep shooting if a day comes they can't buy primers at all.
Bingo. That's exactly why I did it and chrono'd my results versus factory primers here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?410816-Reloading-primers-with-toy-caps-results

[Scrounge]

You have mentioned in a couple of threads that making primers like this is not worth it for you. These guys are trying something and probably enjoying themselves. How about cutting them some slack and let them enjoy what they are doing?

Quite agree. I've got maybe 3600 primers, all told. I need SPP, LPP, and LRP, could probably use SRP, but can substitute SPP for them. I had just gotten my finances kicked into shape that I could start buying reloading components when Covid-19 forced me to retire, and cut my income by about a third. I have enough to live on, probably, but there is greatly reduced play money. Especially if the medical bills keep going the way they have been this past year. Unless Uncle Joe passes out some more covid-bucks, I'm going to be paying for the medical expenses for at least another year or two. So I'm picking up info and stuff that would let me reload enough to at least practice a bit. I'm not sure how the Security Six would like black powder, but I may have to find out. I have a bunch of .38spcl brass that I can punch out and recover the fired SPP to do some of this. I've got a couple of the .22LR Sharpshooter primer reloading kits, and some of the chemicals to do my own primer mix. I am not looking to reload primers for the rest of my life. That sounds like maybe too much fun. ;) But knowing how is good. I'm doing this stuff for the same reason I have a 128lb London-pattern anvil. It's fun, and sometimes useful. That's not for everyone, either!

Bill

[farmbif]

I really like the way you turned a c clamp and drill vise into a press.