Problem with Marlin 1895 magazine feeding

[BrentD]

I have an old 1895 Marlin with the square bolt. It is a parts gun dragged back from the brink of death to be a functional (semi functional anyway), lever gun. However, it jams with pretty good dependability. I thought I knew why, but now I have my doubts. I'm looking for suggestions or ideas, but let me explain the situation.



It is a .45-70 with a new Green Mt barrel on it. It also has a new magazine tube and miscellaneous other parts.
The carrier is old, flat (no "U-shaped" guide on the front like some), but appears to be for a .45-90 - which is good news to me.
I am loading this will black powder and a paper patched bullet. The overall length can be very long because the bullet is slightly less than bore diameter at the front. Thus, an overall length of 2.78" is no problem. See photo of carrier below.
After loading the magazine with one shell, it will cycle every time.
Putting a second round in the mag AFTER the first is chambered, will let it load every time as well.
Loading two shells into the magazine will often, but not always, result in a jam where the carrier cannot rise. Pushing the following round back into the magazine with a house key will allow the load on the carrier to rise and chamber.


So, in a nutshell, I have an effective 2-shot rifle, IF I chamber the first shell before loading the second into the magazine. I would rather have 2 or 3 shells in the mag with the chamber empty until I need it. But this seems to not work reliably.

Here is my question, when I push the shell in the magazine tube back about 1/8" or less, allowing the carrier to rise with a cartridge on it, what is the pushed bullet stopping on? What is holding it back and allowing the carrier to come up? I cannot see in there when the jam occurs. More to the point, when it functions properly, what is stopping the following cartridge from riding out that last few 1000ths of an inch and jamming the carrier in the down position?

This rifle will be used on bears in May.

https://i.imgur.com/sCsuryI.jpg?2

[Deadeye Bly]

Brent, I've got an original 1895 Marlin in 45/70 that was rebored for a 40/60. Overall cartridge length is critical for feeding. If the overall cartridge is short then the next one in the magazine protrudes tool far into the receiver and won't let the carrier rise. If it is too long then the nose of the bullet keeps it from rising. I have not really dug into it any deeper than this. It seems that the cartridge in the carrier is the magazine stop. Try adjusting your cartridge length. I could be wrong on this but it is something to try.

[BrentD]

John, I thought exactly the same thing. But we are talking a few thousandths and it is too long.

Plus, when I shove the offending cartridge back into the tube, it comes back forward but somehow the action will cycle.

I think I'll tear apart my 93 or 94 which cycle perfectly every time and are not overly fussy about overall cartridge length. I just can't see in there very well to be able to tell what is going on.

[pietro]

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Recoil from shooting moving the boolit slightly forward out of the case mouth with each shot until a boolit's far enough out to make the 3rd cartridge (2nd in the magazine) OAL too long to feed ?


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[BrentD]

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Recoil from shooting moving the boolit slightly forward out of the case mouth with each shot until a boolit's far enough out to make the 3rd cartridge (2nd in the magazine) OAL too long to feed ?


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I can rule that out. It happens without dropping the hammer. I cannot load three and cycle them all through the action w/o firing.

[Prairie Cowboy]

Perhaps the problem is related to the replacement barrel and the near-maximum length of your cartridges (2.78" cartridge and a 2.80" carrier).

I noticed on my modern Marlins that the chamber end of the barrel is a very flush fit with the inner face of the inside of the receiver, to allow cartridge noses to slide upwards without catching on any slight projections.

While I can't really visualize why, perhaps with the following cartridge trying to enter the receiver it somehow sometimes causes the bullet nose of the first cartridge to catch on the chamber end of the replacement barrel, assuming that it projects very slightly past the inner receiver face.

If this is the problem, then a slightly shorter cartridge OAL might cure the problem, or the barrel end might need to be smoothed down to fit better where the cartridge nose slides past it.

Or, since the end face of the carrier acts as a cartridge stop after the lever moves rearward and raises it slightly, perhaps there are burrs on the carrier face that are catching on the following cartridge rim and prevent the carrier from rising on the forward stroke of the lever.

[beshears]

Sounds like rim is coming past the cartridge stop. Then when you push it forward the stop holds it in place.

[quail4jake]

This sounds like "letting in two", the typical Marlin jam. This is usually due to poor metallurgy and shoddy workmanship which grew worse during the late Kenna dynasty, however you have a real gem from the good years. Possible causes: worn and/or weak cartridge cutoff spring, out of time cam spring and groove due to wear, enlarged diameter magazine bore in the receiver ( sometimes bored out by amateur gunsmiths thinking that this may alleviate rim jam which is really due to out of spec cartridges, balloon heads etc), a distorted or bent bolt forward protrusion which will trigger the cartridge stop at the wrong time etc... COAL can jam a Marlin (L.L. Hepburn) type action but that is usually a carrier lift jam due to too long COAL, in other models it takes a really short COAL to let in two. I have not yet worked on an 1895, maybe they're different. Was your rifle originally chambered in .45 Gov't? If the problem is that it was designed for .45-90 then you may solve the issue by using a brass block "glued" to the rear of the cartridge slot of the carrier to shorten it to .45-70 specs. Also remember the thing that makes a Marlin / Hepburn action unique is the carrier lift on return stroke of the lever.. the thing that makes Marlin / Hepburn actions fail is often the camming mechanism to make the carrier lift on the return stroke. You can measure the degrees of return travel to bring the carrier to full elevation and compare against factory standards to establish wear on the spring and cam rail, don't ask me where to find those numbers now but somehow I got those for an 1897 and 1894 a long time ago and had those both build up welded and re milled then tempered which completely fixed the problems. So why am I drooling on about this esoteric nonsense? Because in both cases these rifles were letting in two and when the cam was repaired it stopped in both cases. Maybe this will help. As you already know all old Marlin parts are precious gems and please never discard even a stripped screw, they can all be lovingly rehabilitated and brought back to former Pre Kenna glory! Thanks for your efforts, I'm very interested to hear your progress!

[Phat Man Mike]

i agree with quail4 about the COAL. the was explained to me was using a shotgun.people always want to use a different length shell than what the receiver was designed for. they end up with jamming and feeding problems. make a couple of good dummie rounds up and try that.