Road to 1000 boolit batch

[guy_with_boolits]

Well, the time has come. I've made 100 round batches but its very inefficient when I can shoot those basically in an afternoon. I want to make the leap to a 1000 round batch.

The boolit will be an MP-452-200 hollow point with penta insert. Its a 4 cavity.

My casting experience so far has indicated to me the following challenges (sure to be an incomplete list:

-The sheer amount of boolit casting. I'm going to have to fill, shear sprue, open, shake out, and close that 4 cavity mold 250 times to get 1000. But it will probably be more like 300 times if I include the sure to be failed ones and "heating up" ones. This is not a single day session but I should be able to get it done over a few days. I'm not worried about the overall time as long as I dont WASTE time.

-Keeping the mold clean. After 100 rounds my brass mold has lots of lead specks (not tiny, but not huge) on the mating faces and near the pins. This is not going to make things go smoothly. I need to figure out a way to avoid this happening. I think dipping the mold in the molten lead to get/keep it hot is a major contribute to this. I think I need to move to a hotplate for the mold.

-Lubing the mold cavities..I need to figure out a good way to carbonize/lubricate the cavities to give me as much help as possible dropping boolits. I guess just a sooty flame would work.

-Lubing the mold pins/sprue plate, etc.. I need to make sure I am doing this right, and do it repeatedly as needed during the 1000 mold batch.

-Powder coating or Alox: I need to decide. I have not tried this boolit with ALOX, but I would imagine it would probably work. I think ALOX would actually be easier to do en-masse than powder coating. My PC process is not bad but it just seems ALOX is simpler. Throw a hundred boolits in a bag, squirt in a certain amount of warm alox, massage, drop out on paper overnight (or days) Any opinions on PC vs ALOX for this?

-If powder coating: need a better process for even coating, and preventing defects from boolits touching each other or the baking tray. I do not want to lay 1000 boolits on end for baking.

-LEE load master...need I say more? I think I can roll with the punches with my LEE at this point. I'll have an air-duster on standby and make sure if ANYTHING jams up I am ready to quickly disassemble, blow out, clean out any improper goo/junk, and relube without missing a beat.

-Dies: I am expecting the dies might get a bit overwhelmed with particles. especially the boolit seating die. I'm going to have a quick method to brush it out and clean it every 50 rounds or so. I'm not sure how the sizing and powder through dies will fare. But I will expect some sort of repeated cleaning during 1000 rounds.

-Actual reloading consistency. I'm going to have to come up with a plan for QC to make sure the cartridges that come out all plunk. This is not trivial. I'm not sure how to accomplish this. Out of 50 rounds, I had about 6 that for some reason would not plunk, and repeated runs through the bullet sizer (rotating each time) did not seem to fix it. The seem to have good COAL and so forth. A 12% failure rate is not acceptable for 1000 rounds. So I got to get this down.

Good news:

I have all the components I need! Including 30 lbs of lead for 1000 200gn boolits....

I should be able to convert my PID toaster oven to a mold-preheating oven and/or get a hot plate. Any recommendations?

https://i.postimg.cc/tTqkJ0Y3/20210204-125130.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/DZxgbCXt/20210204-130854.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/C5d4CjCd/20210204-195209.jpg

[Stephen Cohen]

For those spits of lead stuck to mould face I use a small gas torch to heat them and wipe off with a charred piece of wood like a pop stick. I don't dip mould's into lead pot to heat as it is a certain way to screw up a mould. I keep a bottle of water close at hand for thirst and any burn and also a damp towel to wipe the brow every now and then. I love casting and a 1,000 is a slow day for me. just work out a system that works for you and time will fly. Regards Stephen

[Flailguy]

Definitely get a hot plate.
PC'ing will keep dies much cleaner.
As far as rounds not plunking, you need to find the cause before you start this mass loading. Cover entire case and boolit with a sharpie insert into chamber then remove to where the interference is.

One you get the issue resolved loading 1k rounds shouldn't be too difficult.

[guy_with_boolits]

For those spits of lead stuck to mould face I use a small gas torch to heat them and wipe off with a charred piece of wood like a pop stick. I don't dip mould's into lead pot to heat as it is a certain way to screw up a mould. I keep a bottle of water close at hand for thirst and any burn and also a damp towel to wipe the brow every now and then. I love casting and a 1,000 is a slow day for me. just work out a system that works for you and time will fly. Regards Stephen

Thanks this is very helpful. I'm going to take my time with cleaning the mold up before even starting this batch using this method of yours, and never dip it in lead again.

[guy_with_boolits]

Definitely get a hot plate.
PC'ing will keep dies much cleaner.
As far as rounds not plunking, you need to find the cause before you start this mass loading. Cover entire case and boolit with a sharpie insert into chamber then remove to where the interference is.

One you get the issue resolved loading 1k rounds shouldn't be too difficult.

Yes I'm going to have to post-mortem those that didnt make it.

As far as PCing keeping the dies cleaner..it would be just the bullet seating die right? (45 ACP). If I come up with a way to clean the bullet seating die every 50 or 100 rounds (perhaps blast it with brake cleaner from underneath followed by mop up with a paper towel and a stick, with metal cup underneath it so the cleaner doesnt drip into the press?), would that make it about even you think as far as using ALOX?

[guy_with_boolits]

Any hot plate recommendations for the mold? What temperature do you actually want to keep the mold at?

[dverna]

Ditch the penta pins for now until you can cast good bullets. You should be getting about 400 bullets an hour with a four cavity mold. Do not admire your work. Once you are getting good bullets, cast at a consistent cadence. Develop a routine. Keep your pot fluxed.

What are you using for alloy?

You have serious problems if you need to clean your seating die every 50 rounds. Not to be condescending...but have you been able to load jacketed or commercial cast bullets?

[guy_with_boolits]

Ditch the penta pins for now until you can cast good bullets. You should be getting about 400 bullets an hour with a four cavity mold. Do not admire your work. Once you are getting good bullets, cast at a consistent cadence. Develop a routine. Keep your pot fluxed.

What are you using for alloy?

You have serious problems if you need to clean your seating die every 50 rounds. Not to be condescending...but have you been able to load jacketed or commercial cast bullets?

I've already cast and loaded about 100 rounds of this boolit and maybe a couple hundred of others in 45, plated RN, and cast SWC boolits and it went fine (except for typical SWC issues not related to casting method) I'm trying to anticipate anything that might be cumulative during a long casting session. I would imagine the dies may get stuff in them. Maybe not. Just trying to anticipate anything that might contribute to cartridges getting out of spec, since I wont be able to inspect each one.

The alloy is the range scrap in the pics.

[guy_with_boolits]

I'm torn between getting this $17 hot plate with unknown max temperature, or just using my PID toaster oven set to 500F to preheat the mold (I guess I'll need to make a foil/kaowool blanket to keep the handles out but the mold inside the oven). https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisine-ESB-301BF-Electric-Indicator/dp/B00C8C5I7I/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=hot%2Bplate&qid=1612500564&sr=8-2&th=1

Seems like a hot plate would be best, if you can really just set the mold on it and have the hot plate maintain a temperature, and heat the mold through conduction instead of convective/radiant

[FLINTNFIRE]

If you heat the mold up to temp you will have no troubles with your pins , I cast that same mold and will make a coffee can full at a session , first cast is good when mold is hot , I keep tossing sprues back in every few casts and keeping ingots on top of pot to warm so I can slide one in as needed , use the hot plate , nice thing with a MP mold is it sits flat and pins are absorbing heat from the get go .

I do not worry about fluxing my pot while casting , lead should have been clean and fluxed when made into ingots , I use a bottom pour pot with a layer of cat litter covering surface , holds heat and covers melt and cuts back on splashing metal , may not be needed but its what I do .

Yes your mold will conduct the heat from sitting on , my hot plate was a white one from walmart or bimart , I am using it turned to the u in medium and that gets mold to the temp. that works for me , I leave hot plate on low or warm while casting so I can sit mold on it if I take a break for any reason , turn up heat and come back it is right where it should be .

I cast and coat and use bullets that have already sit for anywhere from 2 weeks to months or more , I find a solid cavity mold may be a little easier to drop bullets out of , but a hollow point mold should drop them almost as easy and I use no lube or anything else in cavities , have not found a need for it with molds at temp.

How heavy are your ingots ? as the bigger they are the more it is going to try and freeze up your spout and in making a 1000 bullets you will be refilling your pot during session , if I want to take an extended break from casting I run level in pot down and then fill it with a full load of ingots and go do what I need to with mold on hotplate at low temp. I then come back and when pot is about melted I turn hotplate back up . Hotplate in your amazon link is same as mine except for color .

As to coating that many , you need several trays if you are standing up , hardware cloth if you are dumping on screen and if you do dump on screen its best to take out while still hot and shake them apart , standing them up they can cool off on counter while next pans are cooking .

If using alox a little goes a long way and when loading pay attention to seating depths changing if you are getting build up of lube in your seating die , I went to coating and prefer it for less smoke , slick not sticky , but thats something every one has their own opinion on .

[44Blam]

I normally cast in the 500-1000 boolt range. I tend to fill/melt a 20lb pot and cast until the pot is about 1/4 full and then I top it up and cast again until it is about 0.5-1.5" in the pot.

Depending on the mold this takes 3-6 hours total time. But, I am slow and I throw back anything that isn't perfect -- any wrinkles, etc go back in the pot. I also throw my sprues in the pot as I cast.

My cadence is typically:
Fill Cavities
Wait until frost
Throw old sprues / bad boolts in the pot
Break sprue
Drop/inspect boolits
[repeat]

[toallmy]

You can set a metal plate on a burner even the kitchen stove to preheat the mold before starting to cast .
Have the mold clean and keep it clean and lubed while casting makes everything go smoothly. There are many ways to do both but a q-tip with 2/cycle oil +a #2 pencil works wonders on keeping the mold clean & well lubed for me .
Next is keeping your casting pot full and at a good casting temperature - preheated ingots of clean alloy and not letting the pot get to low before aiding more can help but any time you stop casting to let the pot heat back up your mold is cooling . I add the cut spruce back to the pot before I dump the boolits out of the mold while it’s still hot .
Your going to need to do your project one step at a time so don’t beat yourself up if it takes a couple days to get your casting finished . At times casting goes wonderfully smooth & sometimes it just don’t work out so well .
So if you only get half of your casting finished you can start coating the ones you have ready , but if you had a productive afternoon and finished casting you can take a few days coating your boolits .
While you’re waiting for your boolits to harden do your brass prep getting prepared to load - resize , deprine sort , tumble whatever else you need to do .
Loading well that’s on you - I don’t know the issues you’re having with your loadmaster , but I’d try to get them worked out before attempting to load a bunch .
The worst part of reloading ammunition I’d think would be pulling down a bunch of reject or unsafe ammunition .

[44Blam]

You can set a metal plate on a burner even the kitchen stove to preheat the mold before starting to cast .
Have the mold clean and keep it clean and lubed while casting makes everything go smoothly. There are many ways to do both but a q-tip with 2/cycle oil +a #2 pencil works wonders on keeping the mold clean & well lubed for me .
Next is keeping your casting pot full and at a good casting temperature - preheated ingots of clean alloy and not letting the pot get to low before aiding more can help but any time you stop casting to let the pot heat back up your mold is cooling . I add the cut spruce back to the pot before I dump the boolits out of the mold while it’s still hot .
Your going to need to do your project one step at a time so don’t beat yourself up if it takes a couple days to get your casting finished . At times casting goes wonderfully smooth & sometimes it just don’t work out so well .
So if you only get half of your casting finished you can start coating the ones you have ready , but if you had a productive afternoon and finished casting you can take a few days coating your boolits .
While you’re waiting for your boolits to harden do your brass prep getting prepared to load - resize , deprine sort , tumble whatever else you need to do .
Loading well that’s on you - I don’t know the issues you’re having with your loadmaster , but I’d try to get them worked out before attempting to load a bunch .
The worst part of reloading ammunition I’d think would be pulling down a bunch of reject or unsafe ammunition .

The absolute worst part of reloading is pulling down ammunition. I did find a "little" hack. Get a kenetic puller and a screen. Pull the boolits against a 2x4 and drop the bullet/powder through the screen on to a holder for your powder...

[kevin c]

A hot plate for preheating is a big plus, for both the mold (~400°F is what I've been told to shoot for) and ingots (dropping the temp of the melt with cold ingots and waiting for it to recover to casting range can really slow you down; it's also safer to preheat the ingots to drive off any trapped moisture and prevent a steam explosion). Take some care not to put the mold directly on the coils; while it hasn't happened to me I've been told it can warp the blocks. Another precaution is to use something that can contain the lead just in case the ingot gets too hot and melts.

A thousand good casts in a session is very achievable. Using an 8 cavity mold, I can produce close to 3000 keepers in a three hour session. What makes it possible is an efficient equipment set up, efficient technique, and a good way to keep the pot fed. You'll eventually be able to cast where all your movements in each casting cycle are the same, are automatic, and happen without fumbling or wasted effort because all your tools are ready to hand exactly where your hand falls. The same will be true in all stages of the process of producing a loaded round.

You're on your way! Good luck, and happy casting, loading and shooting!

[Evoken]

I'm torn between getting this $17 hot plate with unknown max temperature, or just using my PID toaster oven set to 500F to preheat the mold (I guess I'll need to make a foil/kaowool blanket to keep the handles out but the mold inside the oven). https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisine-ESB-301BF-Electric-Indicator/dp/B00C8C5I7I/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=hot%2Bplate&qid=1612500564&sr=8-2&th=1

Seems like a hot plate would be best, if you can really just set the mold on it and have the hot plate maintain a temperature, and heat the mold through conduction instead of convective/radiant

I recently just bought this hot plate. It works well. With the cast iron top you do not need to place a used saw blade or other metal plate on it like most guys do.

With my coffee can hood the plate keeps temp around 450-500 on 3 1/2 setting, according to my infrared thermometer. This little plate has totally changed my casting for the better! I have one mold that casts ok, until you get it smokin hot and all the boolits are frosted then it rains em. The hot plate helps keep it that hot, I have to crank it up to about 4 for this mold.

In short, but the hotplate, you will like it.
Ken

[AlHunt]

You're over thinking it. Separate casting from PC from loading. With a 6 cavity I can dial in around 500 bullets per hour but that's not an HP. My one 2 cavity HP gets me about 200, maybe, per hour. It just requires extra motions that slow me down plus it heavy.

The only real thing I can offer is that my recent change from pressure casting with the mold against the spout to using the mold guide and letting the mold float a quarter inch under the spout increased my speed a LOT.

[remy3424]

What Al says. None of the processes will be a big deal for 1000. The casting is where I would spend too much time. When using the brass MP mlds with the hp pins, my casting/hr goes way down. I just go like heck to get things hot (using a hot plate also), try to keep the lead hot, the mold hot and I don't sort/cull bullets at this point. Once things start going well, I don't want to stop/slow down. PC will should be easy since you have done this before. Just use 3 trays, guessing around 150 will fit on a tray (standing them up) at a time, one tray is cooling, one is baking and you are loading one, a few cycles and that is done. If you bothered to PID your toaster over, I am assuming you have that on your casting pot also.

On the rounds that failed to chamber from your past loadings, are you using matching brass or just misc range pick-ups? If misc brass, are all the loads that won't chamber the same head stamp? If so, purge those from your stash. OR, what most don't like, run everything through a Lee final carbide sizing die/FCD (whatever they call the extra die in their 4 die sets), that is set just to "iron-out" any high spots. Some will not touch, others you can feel and hear it working, it could and likely will, size down the bullet inside slightly...I haven't found this to be an issue. It shouldn't be crimping anything.

[Wayne Smith]

The only thing I noticed you didn't mention is sizing - are you loading these as cast or are you sizing. If loading as cast this accounts for your failures - temperature variation and/or small spots of lead on the face of the mold holding it slightly open creates oversize boolits. Sizing the boolits normalizes this or lets you know that the boolit is too big and needs to be tossed back and re-cast.

[charlie b]

If you go with Alox then you will need to clean the seat die and maybe the crimp die every now and then. Since you are using a Loadmaster, simply remove the whole die assembly and clean the dies away from the load bench. This is especially true if you decide to use something like brake cleaner or acetone. How often you will need to clean will depend on how much lube you put on the bullets. Make up some 45-45-10 and use very thin coats, eg, barely able to see the coating.

But...I would powder coat using a basket. If you have a thermocouple then cast it into a bullet and bury it in the middle of the basket of bullets. As stated above, break apart the bullets when you dump them after baking. The little marks on them make no difference when shooting pistols at reasonable ranges.

Remember, smooth is fast :)

[Ateam]

I think you are biting off alot for being relatively new to this. My suggestion would be to get good at doing one hundred round batches. After that if you feel the absolute need to do huge batches, go for it. I find when I do huge batches, it is hard to keep quality high throughout.

I use a graphite pencil on the pins if they are giving me sticking problems.

[Martin Luber]

I preheat my moulds to about 400F on the kitchen stove ( electric flat surface unit) .

I run 2 to 3 high capacity moulds at a time. Fill, set aside to cool, Empty and refill next, etc etc.

Dropping sprues back in the pot as l cast as well as adding small quantities of small lead chunks to the pot keeps the level up and avoids reheating delay. I also have spare pots to prep metal for the main. My work needs precision boolets so I run all through a Star lubersizer. I also tumble lube after. Big reductions in smoke but also slippery and may require slight powder bump for marginal load function. I have LoadMasters, Star loaders all preset

[remy3424]

"I use a graphite pencil on the pins if they are giving me sticking problems."

I will also steal that suggestion, the penta point pins are not as smoothly machined as the round pins.

I love the "look" of the hp boolits, but I do question myself if they are worth the extra effort, my round nose pins drop easier (faster).

Thanks Ateam

[guy_with_boolits]

I think you are biting off alot for being relatively new to this. My suggestion would be to get good at doing one hundred round batches. After that if you feel the absolute need to do huge batches, go for it. I find when I do huge batches, it is hard to keep quality high throughout.

I use a graphite pencil on the pins if they are giving me sticking problems.

I'm trying to make a big leap here in order to improve my processes. For instance the 6 / 50 failure rate is no big deal for 100, but totally unacceptable for 1000. So now I am forced to figure that out.

In theory..if things dont go well I can drop it back down to a 100 batch situation until I get things fixed. Thats the idea anyway...

[guy_with_boolits]

"I use a graphite pencil on the pins if they are giving me sticking problems."

I will also steal that suggestion, the penta point pins are not as smoothly machined as the round pins.

I love the "look" of the hp boolits, but I do question myself if they are worth the extra effort, my round nose pins drop easier (faster).

Thanks Ateam

Actually round is fine with me. If thats easier then thats what I'll do. I just want them to be HP.

[guy_with_boolits]

Thanks for all the tips. Some take aways:

-using the #2 pencil as lube for pins
-preheating using a hot plate (I bought it)
-preheating ingots using my PID toaster oven
-trying to find a way to avoid QC'ing boolits as they drop..which takes up alot of time and lets the mold cool as well..this is the trickiest part. Because essentially this is the bottom line: if I can actually not need to QC the boolits then that means I've improved the process to the point where I don't need to. The whole thing in a nutshell..

I think I might do the first 100 in ALOX, confirm how they shoot/chamber, then decide if I will be doing PC or ALOX for the remaining 900

I will be sizing to 0.452

The issues I had with the rejects were that they did not pass the plunk test. They are not all the same headstamp. I'm not sure whats wrong with them yet. I will be doing an investigation shortly for each one.

[Ateam]

The only 45acp brass I have ever had a problem with is A-merc (i think that is the headstamp). Do your self a favor and throw it out if you find some.

The eraser on the number 2 pencil is also a good way to remove lead spots from the mold blocks if necessary, though i think i like the idea of the torch method mentioned earlier better.

I doubt the brass is the problem with your plunk test, probably oversized boolits or not taking enough of the flair out with your crimp.

[bangerjim]

Any hot plate recommendations for the mold? What temperature do you actually want to keep the mold at?

I always use a hotplate to heat my molds to FULL CASTING TEMPERATURE B4 ever starting casting....not just warm as many sty on here. Far better than simply sitting them on the edge of the pot!!!!!!!!! Also use it to preheat all your feed ingots to about 15°F below liquidous temp of your alloy. That way, the feeders don't lower the temp of your pot much at all.

[bangerjim]

I'm torn between getting this $17 hot plate with unknown max temperature, or just using my PID toaster oven set to 500F to preheat the mold (I guess I'll need to make a foil/kaowool blanket to keep the handles out but the mold inside the oven). https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisine-ESB-301BF-Electric-Indicator/dp/B00C8C5I7I/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=hot%2Bplate&qid=1612500564&sr=8-2&th=1

Seems like a hot plate would be best, if you can really just set the mold on it and have the hot plate maintain a temperature, and heat the mold through conduction instead of convective/radiant

I have not hard of anybody successfully using a convection oven to preheat molds. You will damage the handles most likely. I am sure there will be somebody pipe up that does it that way. Always is!

A hotplate is best because it uses conduction contact heating between the flat top plate and the molds. Convection/radiant heat in an oven just takes too long.

Once you use a plate for preheating molds and ingots, you wonder where it has been all you casting life!

[toallmy]

Before you can load a thousand you must have a thousand ready to load so I'd start casting first . I try to keep a few coffee cans ready to load in advance .
With the rounds that failed to plunk , it's probably just a slight adjustment with your dies removing the slight flair .
Go slowly and enjoy the experience .

[toallmy]

Listen to bangerjim about the hot plate when I finally took his advice about preheating molds to full casting temp before attempting to cast everything else just fell into place .
Thanks again bangerjim

[rintinglen]

The one thing I'll add to the advice offered to this point is to cast fast. When you have your melt and Mold to temp, don't hesitate. Start casting as fast as you can fill, cool the sprue, cut and dump. Don't look at the boolits, don't fuss with the pot. Keep a couple of ingots pre-warming on the top of the pot or on the hot plate (or both) and replace them as you use them. As long as the ingots are at least 400 degrees, they will have a minimal impact on your melt temperature if added one at a time to a 20 pound pot. Add metal while the sprue cools. You'll have your thousand cast a lot quicker than you think. 4 3/4 to 6 hours is my guess. Good luck!
If you don't size them, you'll probably have some problems. A LEE or NOE push-thru sizer is the way to fly--you can easily do 10 per minute once you get the hang of it and organize your work station.

[Burnt Fingers]

With my eight cavity MP molds casting 1000 in a batch is easy. I usually manage around 1400-1500 with those molds. One key is to use that hot plate to pre-heat your ingots so your pot doesn't lose temp when you put new ingots in it. I can turn out 25 lbs of boolits in about a couple of hours.

With my four cavity HP molds I can get to 1000 in a batch pretty easy. It takes me about 3 hours.

I prefer to Hi-Tek my boolits.

[shootinfox2]

Your post got me thinking. Dangerous. I tried my luck today. 2000 .45 200 gr RNFP in about five hours. Two Lee 6 cavity molds. Pour, set aside, pour the second, break sprue on number 1 and dump, refill, break sprue on number 2, dump, refill. It sounds easy, but you have to keep the rhythm or it falls apart. Sprue gets too hard, etc. can be done.

Fox

[shootinfox2]

Your post got me thinking. Dangerous. I tried my luck today. 2000 .45 200 gr RNFP in about five hours. Two Lee 6 cavity molds. Pour, set aside, pour the second, break sprue on number 1 and dump, refill, break sprue on number 2, dump, refill. It sounds easy, but you have to keep the rhythm or it falls apart. Sprue gets too hard, etc. can be done.
I know you were casting hollow points, so the timeline is different, but I had to try.

Fox

[KCcactus]

I don't cast often, so most of my sessions are over 1,000 at a time. Running two pots makes a big difference. Drain one and use the other while the first one gets up to temperature after refill. That way you can keep going longer with the mold working well. Boolits pile up fast if you keep the mold at the temp it likes.

[guy_with_boolits]

Very interesting to see the common theme of a hot plate for preheating the mold...eager to try mine out

I

[brewer12345]

Guy, I would suggest concentrating on one step at a time. I cast the same boolit in solid form with a Lee 6 banger. This is easily my favorite design of all and I shoot buckets of them. The hot plate is a key process improvement and you should definitely use it for every casting session. Aside from that, concentrate on one thing at a time. Casting is first. Once you have quality bullets cast, you can alox them, powder coat them, size them, fill the cavities with weasel grease or whatever. But you cannot do any of it until you have a bunch of quality cast boolits. So work on the casting first.

Generally I toss my sprues in as part of reloading the pot when it gets low, but I do not try to cull as I cast because it takes too much time and attention. Save the culling for when you are done and melt them in the next casting session. Make sure you have enough tin in the alloy for good fill out.

[guy_with_boolits]

Your post got me thinking. Dangerous. I tried my luck today. 2000 .45 200 gr RNFP in about five hours. Two Lee 6 cavity molds. Pour, set aside, pour the second, break sprue on number 1 and dump, refill, break sprue on number 2, dump, refill. It sounds easy, but you have to keep the rhythm or it falls apart. Sprue gets too hard, etc. can be done.
I know you were casting hollow points, so the timeline is different, but I had to try.

Fox

that is impressive..two molds requires some skill

[David2011]

Grasshopper, to abuse an old saying, the longest journey begins with a single step. You’re definitely overthinking the job. Don’t focus on the overall size of the task. Just start and persist. When you have all the boolits you want, start powder coating. Continue with each step until you have a pile of loaded ammunition.

[AlHunt]

Thanks for all the tips. Some take aways:

-using the #2 pencil as lube for pins



Let me just caution to be certain it's really a #2 pencil. I'd recommend an American name brand pencil. I once grabbed a pencil that only said "Made In China" ... I don't know WHAT that pencil was made of but I chased wrinkled bullets for a long, long time until I figured out that the cheapo pencil had contaminated my molds with who knows what ...

Actually, all you're really after there is the graphite, which you can buy all by itself. It's lock lubricant. Just be sure to read the container and be sure it's 100% powdered graphite.

[shootinfox2]

I used two lee pots with some modification. I built a mold rest from scrap lumber that holds the mold in alignment with the spout. Slide the mold in, open the spout and pull tye mold out slowly, filling the cavities. Set it aside, fill the second mold while the sprue on the first cools. Repeat. Timing is eveything.

[guy_with_boolits]

I used two lee pots with some modification. I built a mold rest from scrap lumber that holds the mold in alignment with the spout. Slide the mold in, open the spout and pull tye mold out slowly, filling the cavities. Set it aside, fill the second mold while the sprue on the first cools. Repeat. Timing is eveything.

oooh sweet

what angles (side to side and up and down) and distance did you find optimum for your fixture?

[guy_with_boolits]

hot plate is here! Its quite a nice little deal for $18

anyways heres the conditions of my mold after casting only 75 or so hollow points

this is not going to cut it...

Job 1: clean the molds of all lead, burnt junk, etc..

Job 2: do not let them get this way again

I noticed on setting "1" with nothing on the plate, the IR thermometer said 377F...

I set it to "4" and put the mold blocks and sprue plate on top of a piece of alum foil on it...

Hopefully this gets them hot enough to where I can easily remove the lead while they are on the plate still..making for a tidy, easy cleaning process

https://i.postimg.cc/gcxtRSzR/20210206-081517.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Sj0MzNyZ/20210206-081529.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zvHhBR1b/20210206-081542.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Y9sgMzTB/20210206-081559.jpg

[AlHunt]

hot plate is here! Its quite a nice little deal for $18

anyways heres the conditions of my mold after casting only 75 or so hollow points

this is not going to cut it...

Job 1: clean the molds of all lead, burnt junk, etc..

Job 2: do not let them get this way again

I noticed on setting "1" with nothing on the plate, the IR thermometer said 377F...

I set it to "4" and put the mold blocks and sprue plate on top of a piece of alum foil on it...

Hopefully this gets them hot enough to where I can easily remove the lead while they are on the plate still..making for a tidy, easy cleaning process

https://i.postimg.cc/gcxtRSzR/20210206-081517.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Sj0MzNyZ/20210206-081529.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zvHhBR1b/20210206-081542.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Y9sgMzTB/20210206-081559.jpg

Are you whacking the sprue too early? That seems like a lot of smear to me.

[guy_with_boolits]

Are you whacking the sprue too early? That seems like a lot of smear to me.

I got the mold hot enough to where the sprue would take 3-4 seconds to solidify, then I would wack it..is that too short?

So right now I am trying to clean the mating faces of the mold. There are microscopic amounts of lead in the trochoidal vent lines but it seems I can push them out with a popsicle stick.

I wish there was a faster method but it seems I am almost done.

for the faces of the mold that dont do anything (outside faces not including sprue face) I'm going to get as much lead off as possible using the stick, then maybe steel wool or scotch brite pad clean them up

For the sprue plate Im going to do similar but be very gentle on the mold side of it

Not sure yet about the pin holes..going to give them a close look to see what needs to be undone

[AlHunt]

I got the mold hot enough to where the sprue would take 3-4 seconds to solidify, then I would wack it..is that too short?

Hard telling. Your alloy temp will effect it, too. For me, a 3 count is where I whack it. But that's me, at my mold and alloy temp. I have a very similar mold to what you're showing. I just went and looked at it from the last time I cast and there's nothing on the mold top or bottom of the sprue plate.

I do know that when I get to anxious, I get smearing. Looks like they're all doing it for you to some extent so I don't think it's any kind of rough spot.

Maybe give it a 5 count or lower your alloy temp slightly? I'm kind of guessing here ...

[country gent]

The big thing when "Production" casting is to examine your set up. everything where it needs to be when its needed. With repeated casting comes muscle memory this promotes speed. You find yourself running by memory not thinking about it.When everything is located right and the "memory" is there you can reach for things with out looking and find them. Get in a comfortable position a couple inches up down or side to side can make a big difference in your stamina. Set up is a big part of production, why a new line in a factory has many working on it just deciding the ergonomics process and order, then the lay out.

When your casting cast when your sorting sort dont do the 2 together. Or add in extra steps.

Knowing your mould ( pre heat temp, cool time ect) makes things easier. I normally pre heat the moulds then the first 10-15 drops get thrown back in the pot just for general principle. After that Im off and running casting bullets. when done and everything is cooled down and put away, I sort visually for defects. For me casting with 2 2 cavity moulds a 1000 bullets is about a 4-5 hour run. but I ladle cast and use a bigger pot (120 Lbs). The bullets I cast may be 13 to the pound so a 10 lb pot dosnt go very far.

Examine your set-up elimanate excess extra movement and do everything the same everytime.

[guy_with_boolits]

So while cleaning the molds right now I noticed something:

-the "touch the spot with lead" method doesnt seem to work anymore..the lead just melts to the block...makes me wonder how cold my molds were when that DID work (during casting)
-a popsicle stick and toothpicks seem to be safe tools to scrape/push lead off relatively quickly..it made quick work of cleaning up the sprue plate..the vent lines were slower but seemed to work..the blocks are cooling off right now, then I will give them a good scrub to get all the charcoal out

I was tempted to try solder wick..in theory that would work great and you could just wash off the flux residue...opinions?

Next question: I'd like to lube the mold, both the actual pin/sprue plate lube, and also smoking the cavities. I have the small bottle of lube that came with the mold, but I dont have a good sooty flame source I am aware of. Any ideas?

Also what is the actual proper procedure for lubing the mold? I have seen a million things. Now that I have a hot plate, I can get the mold up to a specific temperature then drop the lube in the right places. And how do I know when I need to re-lube it during molding?

AlHunt: thats great info, I think maybe my sprue pivot got loose at some point. From now on I'm going to shoot for no residue under the sprue plate as one measure of how my process is going.

[guy_with_boolits]

all cleaned up...
https://i.postimg.cc/qRLXDczH/20210206-092037.jpg

[45-70 Chevroner]

For those spits of lead stuck to mould face I use a small gas torch to heat them and wipe off with a charred piece of wood like a pop stick. I don't dip mould's into lead pot to heat as it is a certain way to screw up a mould. I keep a bottle of water close at hand for thirst and any burn and also a damp towel to wipe the brow every now and then. I love casting and a 1,000 is a slow day for me. just work out a system that works for you and time will fly. Regards Stephen

When you dip the corner of a mold into molten lead it will not heart or damage a mold. You only hold it in the lead long enough so the lead does not stick to the mold, at that point the mold is hot enough to cast boolits. I did this for many years until I started using a hot plate. That being said you never dip the whole mold in the lead.

[guy_with_boolits]

When you dip the corner of a mold into molten lead it will not heart or damage a mold. You only hold it in the lead long enough so the lead does not stick to the mold, at that point the mold is hot enough to cast boolits. I did this for many years until I started using a hot plate. That being said you never dip the whole mold in the lead.

I think the problem is that:

a) arranging things so just the tip is in the lead, especially as the lead level changes, in a 4lb pot, is not a very reliable thing
b) if its just the tip it doesn't seem to heat the mold up enough (in my situation for whatever reason)

I'm not saying it can't be done, obviously it works for tons of people, but I am not a fan of it..I'm eager to use the hot plate instead

[Burnt Fingers]

A long butane BBQ lighter is what I use to smoke molds.

If your brass mold is properly seasoned it shouldn't need to be smoked.

[AlHunt]

A long butane BBQ lighter is what I use to smoke molds.

If your brass mold is properly seasoned it shouldn't need to be smoked.

This is a great question. Did you heat cycle it a few times before first use?

After my great #2 pencil fiasco I went back to not lubing my molds except the pins.

The cleaned mold is looking great, by the way. If you scrubbed the mold face at all, I'd suggest going back through the heat cycle process. It builds a patina that you may have removed. My brass MP mold drops bullets like buttered biscuits without any lube in the cavities.

[guy_with_boolits]

Okay I very carefully prepped the mold as follows:
-smoke ONE cavity with butane lighter until it was very dark
-warmed up mold blocks (no handles) on hot plate
-took construction pencil and rubbed on ONE HP conical pin (casting surface only)
-using 100% cotton makeup remover pads, dribbled some MP lube on them and then carefully wiped the alignment pin holes and pins
-wiped guide screws of HP pins (cold)
-assembled mold blocks with HP pins and sprue plate
-put assembled mold on hot plate and got it hot
-filled mold with lead
-wiped sprue plate mold side and mold sprue plate side with lubed cotton pad
-put a couple drops of lube on pivot pin
-Then I let it got hot again until it stopped smoking.

I began my first casting session, 5 minutes long (roughly)

I produced 64 boolits, heres the stats:

-mold temperature approximately 500F preheated on hot plate
-lead temperature 750F (a few were done at 710F)
-lead is basically range scrap with maybe some tin added from a 111 solder bar

-ZERO wrinkles..seriously ZERO
-10 rejects, for the following reasons:
**4 with radiused base edge
**1 severely under-filled (not sure what happened)
**1 with dent on base (not from impact)
**4 with what seemed to be unusual porosity in sprue face

-Boolits dropped right from the mold. At most I needed to tap the HP guide pins with my gloved finger (and I mean tap)..dont even need to knock the handles with anything.
-I think the smoked cavity produces boolits with a kind of frosted/mottled appearance (acceptable)..
-It would seem smoking/graphiting is not needed here.
-Sprue is taken 5 seconds or more to solidify. I guess I should go down in lead temperature.
-I'm dropping them into a water bucket but its making big splashes....any good ideas to reduce this? On at least one cast water was in the mold when I went to pour.
-The main time consuming factor here is waiting for the sprue to solidify. How can I tell if I've hit the sweet spot? I dont want to produce wrinkles by lowering temps too much.

So at this rate I could produce 700+ an hour. But Im not going to push it that fast. 1000 in a couple days would be fine with me.

Pics show random 5 that are "good" and then the rejects

https://i.postimg.cc/T1h0nhf6/20210206-121231.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/LXxvqjdD/20210206-121327.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/G2Lqhqf9/20210206-121334.jpg

[AlHunt]

Okay I very carefully prepped the mold as follows:
-smoke ONE cavity with butane lighter until it was very dark
-warmed up mold blocks (no handles) on hot plate
-took construction pencil and rubbed on ONE HP conical pin (casting surface only)
-using 100% cotton makeup remover pads, dribbled some MP lube on them and then carefully wiped the alignment pin holes and pins
-wiped guide screws of HP pins (cold)
-assembled mold blocks with HP pins and sprue plate
-put assembled mold on hot plate and got it hot
-filled mold with lead
-wiped sprue plate mold side and mold sprue plate side with lubed cotton pad
-put a couple drops of lube on pivot pin
-Then I let it got hot again until it stopped smoking.

I began my first casting session, 5 minutes long (roughly)

I produced 64 boolits, heres the stats:

-mold temperature approximately 500F preheated on hot plate
-lead temperature 750F (a few were done at 710F)
-lead is basically range scrap with maybe some tin added from a 111 solder bar

-ZERO wrinkles..seriously ZERO
-10 rejects, for the following reasons:
**4 with radiused base edge
**1 severely under-filled (not sure what happened)
**1 with dent on base (not from impact)
**4 with what seemed to be unusual porosity in sprue face

-Boolits dropped right from the mold. At most I needed to tap the HP guide pins with my gloved finger (and I mean tap)..dont even need to knock the handles with anything.
-I think the smoked cavity produces boolits with a kind of frosted/mottled appearance (acceptable)..
-It would seem smoking/graphiting is not needed here.
-Sprue is taken 5 seconds or more to solidify. I guess I should go down in lead temperature.
-I'm dropping them into a water bucket but its making big splashes....any good ideas to reduce this? On at least one cast water was in the mold when I went to pour.
-The main time consuming factor here is waiting for the sprue to solidify. How can I tell if I've hit the sweet spot? I dont want to produce wrinkles by lowering temps too much.

So at this rate I could produce 700+ an hour. But Im not going to push it that fast. 1000 in a couple days would be fine with me.

Pics show random 5 that are "good" and then the rejects

https://i.postimg.cc/T1h0nhf6/20210206-121231.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/LXxvqjdD/20210206-121327.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/G2Lqhqf9/20210206-121334.jpg

Nice work. Methodical, measured, exactly what you needed.

700/hr is a good number. I wouldn't mess with success. Cast for 3 hours, you'll have twice as many bullets as you wanted.

I don't water drop myself but I seem to recall people saying they float a sponge on the water to reduce the splash.

If you're PCing, the water drop probably isn't needed.

Here's a monkey wrench ... when we PC are we annealing the bullets anyway? I don't know the answer.

Congratulations.

[guy_with_boolits]

Nice work. Methodical, measured, exactly what you needed.

700/hr is a good number. I wouldn't mess with success. Cast for 3 hours, you'll have twice as many bullets as you wanted.

I don't water drop myself but I seem to recall people saying they float a sponge on the water to reduce the splash.

If you're PCing, the water drop probably isn't needed.

Here's a monkey wrench ... when we PC are we annealing the bullets anyway? I don't know the answer.

Congratulations.

Thanks. From what I can tell this range scrap might be 2 BHN too high or 2 BHN too low to be perfect for this mold. So....I am really water dropping just so I dont drop hot boolits on each other, and I guess I'd rather the boolits be too hard than too soft.

But yeah, for PC, I would think thats true about annealing. 400F for 20mins?

I may seriously ALOX though. It might be alot easier. I'll do 50 and see if I get leading, if not, then I might do ALOX the whole batch.

I might try the sponge thx.

I'm not sure how many I will make today. Probably a few hundred. The hot plate was a BIG deal.

[shootinfox2]

277058277059pics for reference.

[guy_with_boolits]

277058277059pics for reference.

nice thx..I definitely could enjoy that setup.

in fact I'm going to do that right now!!

[dverna]

If you feel the spruce is taking too long to solidify, I have used a damp towel laying on the bench and flip the mold to touch the spruce plate on the towel for about 3 seconds. That allows me to run the mold hot, maintain bullet quality and a high production rate.

[Mk42gunner]

My hat is off to you for even contemplating a run of 1,000 good boolits with a four pound pot. I don't think I would attempt it with a ten pounder.

As to the lead smears on the sprue plate, I have used both graphite from a pencil and at other times soapstone. Both seem to work equally, so it is whichever comes to hand first for me. I'll even scribble over the top surface of the mold; may not be needed, but it seems to help.

You need to figure out just how you are getting lead between the faces of the mold, then stop doing it. Dipping the mold to preheat it doesn't cause it.

I wear leather gloves while casting and the first thing I try to remove smears is to simply give it a quick rub with my thumb. It often works, if not sterner measures are required.

Robert

[guy_with_boolits]

My hat is off to you for even contemplating a run of 1,000 good boolits with a four pound pot. I don't think I would attempt it with a ten pounder.

As to the lead smears on the sprue plate, I have used both graphite from a pencil and at other times soapstone. Both seem to work equally, so it is whichever comes to hand first for me. I'll even scribble over the top surface of the mold; may not be needed, but it seems to help.

You need to figure out just how you are getting lead between the faces of the mold, then stop doing it. Dipping the mold to preheat it doesn't cause it.

I wear leather gloves while casting and the first thing I try to remove smears is to simply give it a quick rub with my thumb. It often works, if not sterner measures are required.

Robert

I did 375 boolits today..I timed a cast cycle and it takes me about 15 seconds from dump to dump. So it would only take about an hour to do 1000. But I stopped since I'm not in a hurry. However I'm not including the 10 minute break I take when the pot gets low. Thats when I dump all the sprues in and a couple more pounds of lead. Then I have to wait until the mold and lead all get back up to temp before I can continue. I suppose I could do a continuous sprue-to-pot dump along with preheated ingots but thats okay, not in that much of a rush this time.

I did check things half way and saw no lead on the mold faces, and the sprue plate looked pretty clean too.

But then near then end I started getting molten sprues because things were a little hotter than they should be. I think when that happens, little pieces of lead get between the mold faces when I open it, and then they get smashed on the next cycle...so sure enough I checked after 375 and yep there are lead spots on the faces and some smearing on the sprue plate.

Nowhere near as bad as before but definitely more than I like. So I will clean it again for the final 700

[toallmy]

Posted twice

[toallmy]

Your well on your way to having a excess of cast boolits .
A shop rag with a touch of sprue plate lube can be used to wipe off the top of the blocks and bottom of the sprue plate while you are casting as well as cleaning specks from the inside of the blocks while it's still up to casting temp .

[guy_with_boolits]

Your well on your way to having a excess of cast boolits .
A shop rag with a touch of sprue plate lube can be used to wipe off the top of the blocks and bottom of the sprue plate while you are casting as well as cleaning specks from the inside of the blocks while it's still up to casting temp .

I swear I tried this but it didn't seem to get the lead off. I will try again next session.

Last night I:

-Sized 50 to .452 then ALOX'd them (warmed up alox, 35 drops) in a plastic bag, massaged it, then let them air dry on non-stick tin foil. This morning I baked them for 20 mins at 200F

-PC'd 50 then sized them to .452

I've already made and shot the PC'd version, so not much to learn there.

However I have not yet shot an ALOX version of this boolit. So this will be a test. ALOX'ing is significantly easier than PC'ing as far as number of steps. I am not a fan of individually doing anything to boolits more than I have to (picking them apart, standing them up, flipping them over, etc..etc..) so if I can get away with ALOX, I might want to do that to all of them (throw in bag, dribble ALOX, dump out on paper)..maybe I can even get away without baking them.

Shooting test coming up

https://i.postimg.cc/KzCNW3dc/20210206-180546.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/qqnLHMTs/20210207-075001.jpg

[guy_with_boolits]

besides doing a shooting test of ALOX, I'm also doing a post-mortem (as mentioned before) of the 10 rejects I got from a batch of 50 of these loads I did before this 1000 round attempt

I took pictures and made measurements and blah blah blah...but after some investigation I found my issue.


Several of my rejects had shaved/pushed lead up above the case mouth, preventing them from plunking even though they had the right COAL and diameter at the case mouth.

My LEE bullet seating die is shaving lead during the combination seat/crimp(deflare) operation. This is apparently common and suggestions for fixing it range from using harder lead (I notice no issue with my solid copper loads) or splitting the operation up into two..i.e. seat, then crimp. This prevents the crimp from occuring while the bullet is being seated.

There is also the possibility of pre-chamfering the case mouth but I dont want to add that operation.

I would imagine with jacketed or even plated bullets I wouldnt have this issue. Its just with the lead cast, PC'd or ALOX'd, that I see it.

Unfortunately I dont have a lee 45 ACP FCD or two bullet seating/crimping dies, so I will have to run a pass through the loadmaster where everything is finished except crimping, then do it again with crimping. This is okay for this test batch of 50 but I will be getting a FCD or another bullet seating die ASAP so it can take up the 5th position and do all this automatically.

To test this out I ran an ALOX'd bullet through the seating die, with the die body screwed very far out to prevent any crimping, but with the seating plug screwed in to yield a COAL of about 1.6". Then I reinstalled the die with no seating plug and the die body screwed in to just take out the crimp.

Sure enough load plunked just as good as my solid copper ones. And also with the case end just below the barrel shroud (where it actually should be if the case is headspacing on my barrel)..not flush.

So, looks like one major quality issue has been solved here, which was one of my goals of pushing everything to 1000. Now I need to go find those dies...

[Petander]

Good job casting!

I try not to time my sessions or count much but my 4 cav brass MP molds tend to get too hot and smear pretty quick, like after ten minutes. From then on I can pour only about twice every minute, maybe even slower.

The obvious solution is to use two or three molds. Or lower alloy temp but these HP molds like it hot so...


FWIW I also keep my molds completely clean, wash with brakelkeen and dishwash. Oil the pins.

FWIW2 when I got my first mold 25 years ago,a single cavity Lee 458 HB mold, I made 1000+ bullets outside on open fire with a dutch oven and a ladle the same day. :)

[Mk42gunner]

Okay, sounds like as the pot gets emptier, you get impatient to open the sprue. Good on you for figuring it out.

The solution is to wait until the sprue hardens. Not hard as nails, but not mush either. I usually watch for it to change state from molten to solid, then give it a second or two (guessing here) to harden enough to cut; but not so hard as to need to beat on the sprue plate.

I generally add the sprues back in as I go, less heat lost that way. I do it while waiting for the sprue puddle to harden, so no real time is lost.

Robert

[AlHunt]

But then near then end I started getting molten sprues because things were a little hotter than they should be.

It's all learning curve. When you see the sprue hardening time get longer, slow your pace. Some will keep a damp towel close to hand to help manage mold temps, too.

Somewhere else I saw you mention shaving lead while loading and it seemed like you weren't belling your case mouths. I don't recall ever finding a cast bullet that didn't require the case mouth belled. Sounds like you're on a progressive so maybe you just need to get an extra die if you want to separate seating and crimping.

[lightman]

Casting a thousand bullets at a setting can seem hopeless sometimes. Especially if you are a new caster. But it will get easier after you gain experience.

A cheap hot plate will get your mold up to casting temperature while you are waiting on the lead to melt. It will also pre-heat the ingots that you will be adding to the pot. Experience will tell you what settings to use. When the mold gets hot you need to lube it. There is a sticky about mold lube. I flux my pot after everything gets melted and again when its about half empty. You need a comfortable place to work and you need to arrange your tools and equipment in a comfortable arrangement and one that minimizes your movements. When you start getting good bullets and everything is going smoothly, try to remember the pot setting. You'll learn to watch the sprue change colors and when to cut it.

I suggest starting with a basic bullet. The pins that make hollow points or hollow bases add another degree of challenge that can even frustrate veteran casters!

And some days things just won't come together for you. It happens to all of us.

[guy_with_boolits]

It's all learning curve. When you see the sprue hardening time get longer, slow your pace. Some will keep a damp towel close to hand to help manage mold temps, too.

Somewhere else I saw you mention shaving lead while loading and it seemed like you weren't belling your case mouths. I don't recall ever finding a cast bullet that didn't require the case mouth belled. Sounds like you're on a progressive so maybe you just need to get an extra die if you want to separate seating and crimping.

I spent time today looking very closely at the belling/expanding/flaring and the seating/deflaring/crimping situation and I think I got it figured out. I need to do seating and deflaring in two separate steps.

Now though I'm having trouble keeping the set bullet depth/COAL maintained when actually using the progressive. I've seen people say .010" tolerance is typical for a progressive. I'd like to hit 1.165 +.005/.000 but that could be truly a challenge. The boolits are very soft and the HP is definitely being deformed slightly by the bullet plug, making measuring COAL and setting depth complicated

[sutherpride59]

100% get a hot plate, the cheapest you can find is hot enough to preheat molds.

[fcvan]

100% get a hot plate, the cheapest you can find is hot enough to preheat molds.

I never used a hotplate that was store bought. I cast from a Lee 10 pound pot, I took a tin can lid and cut a spot for the operating rod. Pot heats up faster, molds heat up sitting on the tin lid, while casting I place an ingot on the rim to preheat and add to the pot as needed. When casting larger boolits I place 2 on the rim, one on top of the other. As needed, the bottom ingot goes in, the top one get another placed on it.

When I take a break I put the tin lid back on top, and the mold(s) back to keep warm. No need for a hotplate when you already have a heat source, but it works well for those who use hotplates.

[Burnt Fingers]

I swear I tried this but it didn't seem to get the lead off. I will try again next session.

Last night I:

-Sized 50 to .452 then ALOX'd them (warmed up alox, 35 drops) in a plastic bag, massaged it, then let them air dry on non-stick tin foil. This morning I baked them for 20 mins at 200F

-PC'd 50 then sized them to .452

I've already made and shot the PC'd version, so not much to learn there.

However I have not yet shot an ALOX version of this boolit. So this will be a test. ALOX'ing is significantly easier than PC'ing as far as number of steps. I am not a fan of individually doing anything to boolits more than I have to (picking them apart, standing them up, flipping them over, etc..etc..) so if I can get away with ALOX, I might want to do that to all of them (throw in bag, dribble ALOX, dump out on paper)..maybe I can even get away without baking them.

Shooting test coming up

https://i.postimg.cc/KzCNW3dc/20210206-180546.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/qqnLHMTs/20210207-075001.jpg

Try some Hi-Tek.

It's done in batches. No need to handle each boolit.

[Petander]

I just happened to get my first ever 8 cav mold yesterday, an MP 359-135 rf bb.

Out of curiosity, I asked my Better Half to notify me after half an hour casting with Pro Melt @ 750 F.

Casting normally as always,I got 350 bullets in 30 min using that one mold alone. My current soft alloy drops 153 grain,not 135. Diameter is .359".

https://i.postimg.cc/LsZ89nYs/IMG-20210209-144009.jpg

[guy_with_boolits]

Today I shot about 50 of the following:

MP-452-200 hollow points with circular pin
4.5 gn bullseye
(these chrono about 840 fps)
random mixed headstamp range pickup brass
pretty soft alloy most likely
ALOX'd
COAL 1.16 to 1.17"

I am a new shooter and the pictured targets are from 13yd and 27yd. Pistol supported on a sand bag on a table. Both appear to be about 33 MOA, each with 1 flier.

There is leading. Its not as bad as I've seen before but...I guess its bad? I dont know. This is starting from a clean barrel, after 50 rounds. Strangely I seem to notice leading is the most intense by far in one particular groove/land at the top of the barrel, after all my shooting (not just today)..any reason that would be?

Where do I go from here? If this leading, and this accuracy, is about right, then maybe its good enough.

But, if I want to try for more accuracy, I would guess:

-sort brass by headstamp and post-sized length and load one type/length
-push load up a bit higher (people have mentioned this can help with leading)
-abandon ALOX and go back to PC (sigh..)
-change powders? (what would be better in this case?)

Ideas?

https://i.postimg.cc/zXGRv7n1/20210210-203510.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/rFZRr4JR/20210210-203644.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SQrMm3Yr/20210210-203658.jpg

[AlHunt]

Today I shot about 50 of the following:

MP-452-200 hollow points with circular pin
4.5 gn bullseye
(these chrono about 840 fps)
random mixed headstamp range pickup brass
pretty soft alloy most likely
ALOX'd
COAL 1.16 to 1.17"

I am a new shooter and the pictured targets are from 13yd and 27yd. Pistol supported on a sand bag on a table. Both appear to be about 33 MOA, each with 1 flier.

There is leading. Its not as bad as I've seen before but...I guess its bad? I dont know. This is starting from a clean barrel, after 50 rounds. Strangely I seem to notice leading is the most intense by far in one particular groove/land at the top of the barrel, after all my shooting (not just today)..any reason that would be?

Where do I go from here? If this leading, and this accuracy, is about right, then maybe its good enough.

But, if I want to try for more accuracy, I would guess:

-sort brass by headstamp and post-sized length and load one type/length
-push load up a bit higher (people have mentioned this can help with leading)
-abandon ALOX and go back to PC (sigh..)
-change powders? (what would be better in this case?)

Ideas?

https://i.postimg.cc/zXGRv7n1/20210210-203510.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/rFZRr4JR/20210210-203644.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SQrMm3Yr/20210210-203658.jpg

No, that's not accuracy.

Get that lead out. A few jacketed rounds might blow some of it out. From there a brush and solvent might do the trick. Failing that a product called Lewis Lead Remover is reported to be good. There are billions of words written all over the internet about lead removal.

I don't remember what alloy you're using, but it might need some help.

Try the powder coated version and see how the do.

Primarily, I'd get someone else to shoot that gun. You're a new shooter and maybe even off the sandbag your technique just isn't good. Breath, trigger control and grip all still matter off the sandbag.

[guy_with_boolits]

Heres my plan for moving forward:

-Although I did try a PC version of this boolit before, it was before I found the issue with my crimping, so I'm going to do it again , lets say 100 PC
-I will PC them very carefully this time, (tweezers to place upright, etc.. to try and get them as consistently coated and defect free as possible)
-I'll still make another ALOX batch of 100
-I'll sort by headstamp and post-sized case length, and only load cases within a certain tight tolerance (if that turns out to be realistic)
-I suppose I'll stay with bullseye for the moment
-I'll load half with a slightly higher load
-I'll shoot PC first to presumably reduce leading impact on accuracy
-Same distances (14yd and 27yd)
-Its a little late for me to improve the alloy as the boolits are all cast. However by shooting PC first maybe I can detect whether the lead is an issue. I see many, many reports of people using extremely soft lead alloys with HP's in 45 ACP with no issue once they get the load right, so I think I should be able to make it work, but who knows. Maybe this alloy is junk for some reason besides its hardness.

EDIT: Actually this alloy is jacketed range scrap that has been water dropped, and then cooked at 220F for 1 hour for the ALOX. That is probably in the 10 BHN area isnt it? Or would the ALOX cook anneal it?

[guy_with_boolits]

Its looking like my road to 1000 is turning into a stop and go every 100 as I find problems with my loading processes and try to improve them before the next batch. This is actually exactly what I wanted. Hopefully by the time I make #1000 I will have an accurate load that I would want to make another 1000 of.

If I was happy with what I've been loading, I no longer see any problem with making 1000. The casting is actually pretty fast and smooth, and I've even got the load-master pumping out loads with a consistent COAL (as long as you keep the shell plate full). The problems I seem to be having are related to:

-cases with varying length (measured and proven, although unclear what impact it has on the load accuracy)
-alloy (its very soft I think, I cant tell if it is having a problem or not,but I thought super soft was fine if the load was right at 1911 speeds?)
-leading (unclear whats causing this, I suppose it could just be the alloy, but maybe the ALOX isn't being applied right, or I need to up the load)

[guy_with_boolits]

PC batch, my most carefully made yet. All stood up with dusted gloves, on non stick foil with fda silicone sprayed on the foil

https://i.postimg.cc/k5sz0jGR/20210211-082304.jpg

[popper]

using the #2 pencil as lube for pins and sprue plate!
4 cavity pistol bullet mould - are you planning commercial? I can cast 3-400 (4x mould) and stop to dump sprue and refill pot. Usually shoulder is tired anyway. What you want is really no big deal - they are PISTOL bullets. You will have rejects, I just cull them waiting for the pot to melt more alloy. I PC 200 batches on my hot plate.
You worry too much. This is 40sw 165gr (testing some diff. alloy) off hand shooting. Just culled out bad bases.
277394

[mnewcomb59]

I like to cast big batches of HP bullets so they all have the same expansion characteristics. Then I only have to jug test at a few velocities. I write down batch info, alloy notes and velocities of recovered bullets on a piece of paper. Put the paper and expanded bullets in a baggie and they stay with the bullets until they are gone.

One time I tried to remake an alloy that was working for low speed 45 bullets and got them too hard. When they mushroomed the nose would break off. Of course I found this out after they were powder coated and a few hundred were loaded. Now I make minimum 50 pound batches of alloy and mark the ingots. I really like 1-1-98, 2-2-96 and 3-3-94. My foundry type and pewter stay consistent but soft lead from the scrap yard might be 99% pure one time then 98.5% the next. If your "pure" lead isn't pure and you only want 1-3% of this or that in your final alloy, your final product can easily be richer than intended.

Another tip is let your antimony alloys sit at least a month before testing and longer is better. They will slowly harden, then plateau in hardness. Don't test expansion at various velocities before then. A bullet might mushroom nicely at 800 fps then two months later you do the test and it needs 850 fps.

[guy_with_boolits]

So per my previous description, I've selected about 60 winchester headstamps from my rando range brass

Then I measured each one. Quite a few were not square by a few thou and I tried to set those aside.

Pictured below is a sort of histogram...

So now I want to do something dangerous..think. Presumably I'd cull the outliers and just use the brass from 0.888, +1, +2, and +3 (these are .001" increments)

But then the question is, what to set the taper die to? I would think the +3, that way, the brass can only be shorter. If I set for short and then long brass gets in the die, it will over crimp the top, right?

https://i.postimg.cc/xCSJbBZk/20210211-103351.jpg

[AlHunt]

I'll suggest batches of 5 or 10 rounds as you play with pressures and accuracy. It doesn't require 50 rounds to figure out that you're spraying them all over the place.

I usually do batches of 5 looking for my max pressure then start backing down looking for accuracy, maybe in batches of 5 to 10. You could do 3 or 4 batches of increasing powder charge if you're having to make a range trip to test them out.

[popper]

Cooking the alox'd to dry it faster? I started LLA (alox) on 40sw and got the same leading. Never could get accuracy unless near starting loads. BLL works much better. PC is better but must be proper size. Water dropping from mould gets water on the mould I don't like. Just use a damp (not wet) towel on a table or put a towel with slot over the bucket. Flare the case mouth before loading FB bullets to prevent scraping the alox or PC off.

[whisler]

You seem to be concentrating on the brass as the cause of the problem but did you mike the boolit diameter to see if they are large enough? May well be larger after PC but what does the bare boolit measure?

[remy3424]

You are making this way too hard. Cast, PC then and size, I wouldn't have any water around, Back off the powder charge to a starting rate, they shouldn't be leading. Increase the charge once you get things working right. One more thing, take a step closer to the target, once you can hit where you are aiming, then back-up. You can easily PC a 1000 in an afternoon, that is the easy part of this.

[guy_with_boolits]

You seem to be concentrating on the brass as the cause of the problem but did you mike the boolit diameter to see if they are large enough? May well be larger after PC but what does the bare boolit measure?

I think there are many things that could be contributing. Brass is just one thing. The boolits are sized to .452 after PC or before ALOX. I bought a .451 sizer but that seems like the wrong direction. I'm not going to order a .453 custom sizer so I have to make do with what I got. I suppose I could try them unsized but they are very big..like .455..dont think that will work.

Today I shot the 40 or so that I carefully loaded with the same headstamp and case length (post-sizing) of .888" with a tolerance of -0"/+.003"

Before I was getting a 4" group at 13yds, now I'm getting 2" to 3" groups at 13.7yds. More than once the bullet holes touched. This seems to be a big improvement to me, thoughts?

What I changed versus my last target shoot:

-PC'd instead of ALOX'd
-used same headstamp
-used cases with length .888" +.003/-.0"
-my shooting position was a bit improved I'd say. Before I was sort of just sitting on a leg with the gun on the bag. This time I was kneeling, like if you did an isosceles stance but just knelt. Felt way more steady. Not sure how much that contributed here.

Still getting fliers though, and those dont seem to be me, I swear. Not sure whats causing them. I was pretty careful loading this time.

There is some reside in the barrel but I'm not sure what it is. I'm going to have to get some of that de-leading juice because I dont think my scrubbing is working that well.

https://i.postimg.cc/mkwYqw0r/20210211-173419.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4yZvBM2M/20210211-175942.jpg

[toallmy]

Have you pulled a boolit , to check size after loading ?

[onelight]

It is best to test with a barrel with no lead in it .
You can wrap Chore Boy solid copper scouring pad material on a bore brush and scrub all the lead out.
https://www.amazon.com/Chore-Boy-Copper-Scouring-Pad-2ct/dp/B006K3XS5A/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&hvadid=78683907031140&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=chore-boy&qid=1613131310&sr=8-8&tag=mh0b-20

[guy_with_boolits]

It is best to test with a barrel with no lead in it .
You can wrap Chore Boy solid copper scouring pad material on a bore brush and scrub all the lead out.
https://www.amazon.com/Chore-Boy-Copper-Scouring-Pad-2ct/dp/B006K3XS5A/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&hvadid=78683907031140&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&keywords=chore-boy&qid=1613131310&sr=8-8&tag=mh0b-20

thanks. I ordered "copper coated" ones since I couldnt find chore boy at walmart but now I'll buy those amazon ones too.

I do not think my attempts to remove leading actually got all lead out..its really hard to tell if the lead right in the insider corner of the grooves is gone or not...

Any idea why the "leading" seems to focus on the top groove? Its always the same...maybe the case is pivoting on the extractor and tilting up slightly when it fires?

[guy_with_boolits]

Have you pulled a boolit , to check size after loading ?

I cant pull these lead boolits..my forster collet broke almost immediately. I swear I did not abuse it. So I am trying to get another one. I could try kinetically pulling them I suppose

what do I do if the boolit is undersized after pulling?

EDIT nvm: forgot that apparently forster collets are not meant to pull lead bullets...so I guess its my fault

[guy_with_boolits]

It would be very interesting to see some 1" groups, off hand, from a service grade 1911 at 15 yd, with cast boolits and mixed range brass.

Right now its clear that my shooting skill is the limit since my offhand group is much larger than the bench group. But I'd like to know what the limits of this type of ammo would be in this type of gun.

So in other words now I'm hooked and want to push accuracy as an end in itself....

[onelight]

If you can scare up a box of factory loads you would at least have something to compare with your reloads .
Have you fired any factory loads from sand bags with that gun ? if so are your groups better ?

[guy_with_boolits]

Okay I'm making an honest attempt to measure boolit sizes after loading...I'm getting some results that uhh..seem odd

measurements are with digital mic and digital calipers, mic/caliper

pulled boolit
@ top band 0.4515" / 0.452"
@ bottom band 0.4507" / 0.451" (?????????)

freshly sized boolit (never loaded)
@ top band 0.4515" / 0.452"
@ bottom band 0.4515" / 0.452"

unsized boolits are about 0.4555"

I should note that with all my loads, you can see the driving rings of the boolit slightly in the loaded round, through the brass, if you pinch the case between calipers and look through them at a light.

Seems my boolits are slightly under what I'd want them right? Even unloaded the boolit is still under 0.452". Pulled, the bottom driving band seems to be under 0.451"!! No bueno?

Why is this happening? And what should I do about it?

EDIT: Does this mean I should get an expander die to open up the case instead of just flaring it?

[guy_with_boolits]

If you can scare up a box of factory loads you would at least have something to compare with your reloads .
Have you fired any factory loads from sand bags with that gun ? if so are your groups better ?

that would be a great idea. back in the before time when I could get factory ammo at 20 cents a round at an actual store I was doing just that..but not measuring anything really...

I'm all out of factory ammo and getting any would be really $$$ I think...if not basically impossible since I'd have to find it at a LGS

[toallmy]

If you're using a lee push through sizing die you can open it up a little .
Your using the lee powder through die on your loadmaster to charge your case correct , can you adjust it in the case a little more without over flaring the case mouth ?

[guy_with_boolits]

If you're using a lee push through sizing die you can open it up a little .
Your using the lee powder through die on your loadmaster to charge your case correct , can you adjust it in the case a little more without over flaring the case mouth ?

wait what??

I think the powder die only flares, you cant change anything about what it does below the flare (if anything)

How do you adjust the sizing die?

[mnewcomb59]

You mentioned that you occasionally scrape the pc when loading. I found a few years ago when I started to pc everything that one major down side is that you have to chamfer every case. With a lubed bullet, if you scrape upon seating you have a high pressure lube gasket going down the barrel with the bullet and nothing bad happens as long as they headspace and chamber. With pc when you scrape it leads to leading.

Also your one land that fouls probably has either a choke or chatter marks. It would clean right up with about 5 fire lapping bullets.

Last, you wanna figure out a way to get the bullets seated at their intended size. Use a harder alloy or let your alloy age harden before loading. If 1 month old bullets are still undersized when you pull them, either harden alloy, get a looser decap resize die, or get a larger diameter, longer expander for cases. If you have lee dies I have sometimes decapped with a universal decapping die then resized in the factory crimp die with crimp backed off. FCD is closer to max outside diameter than the resizing die, which can be 5 thou undersized.

I much prefer loading with a proper sized resizing die than using an oversized, deep expander. The expanders are hard work and require a lot of muscle or an additional step of inside neck lubing cases after chamfering.

[Hanzy4200]

One aspect that has really spend things up for me, especially when using aluminum molds, is using two molds simultaneously. Run one for 6-7 casts or until it starts getting to hot, swap over to #2, and repeat.

[guy_with_boolits]

hmmm..so heres a data point:

took random range brass
cleaned carbon out of the neck with IPA
full length sized it
flared with powder through die
ran a .453 tool into it to open it up, .350" into the case
sat bullet to a COAL of 1.170"
taper crimped right until it would headspace on shoulder and rotate freely

then put it in pistol and cycled the action to see about setback:

1st cycle: 1.167"
2nd cycle: 1.162"
3rd cycle: 1.155"

Then pulled boolit kinetically and it measured only a few 1/10000ths smaller than before I loaded it

Can I taper crimp a little harder to prevent it from setting back? What are the consequences of that?

[nueces5]

Hello, I was also looking for something to heat my mold, I found something like that, maybe someone else here can tell us if it works
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Portatil-1500W-Electrico-Plate-Hot-de-Kitchen-Steel-Stove-Stainless/113949826977?hash=item1a87f05fa1:g:6wEAAOSwzb5dwD7 g

I would rather do PC
The time spent putting them on the baking sheet saves you with sticky dies

[toallmy]

If you're using a lee push through sizing die you can open it up a little .
Your using the lee powder through die on your loadmaster to charge your case correct , can you adjust it in the case a little more without over flaring the case mouth ?

The first part is about sizing your cast boolits ether with allox or pc coating . A lot of members have enlarged the dies with some sandpaper on a split dowel rod .
The second part is about your powder through die on your press , you can adjust your powder through expander die down - at least until you find yourself over flaring the case mouth . You may be able to get a little more depth .

[toallmy]

I use a lee powder through expander die in my loadmaster to expand the case + just barely flair the case mouth . I just barely remove the flair when I seat a cast boolit the mouth of a loaded round is around .471-.473 , this allows the loaded cartridge to plunk but definitely not free spin easily & some don't freely plunk but will with the slightest touch .

[guy_with_boolits]

Update: NOE expander plugs coming today. And, I've modified one of my sizer cylinders to drop .4525". So now, in theory I should be able to create the best batch of ammo I've ever made: boolits sized big and installed in cases expanded to not crush them. Finally! I'll probably do a batch of PC and ALOX, as usual, to compare and contrast.

Looking forward to hitting what I am pointing the pistol at, and getting rid of 6" flyers at 15 yards

[guy_with_boolits]

, this allows the loaded cartridge to plunk but definitely not free spin easily & some don't freely plunk but will with the slightest touch .

what are your thoughts on this

[guy_with_boolits]

update: it would seem that the actual casting of the boolits is now the easiest part of this whole operation..I can pump out hundreds an hour no problem and maintain the mold..

its the loading for accuracy that is the challenge for me

[David2011]

Your well on your way to having a excess of cast boolits.

Sorry; I missed this earlier. Can you explain this thing, “excess of cast boolits”?

[toallmy]

Sorry; I missed this earlier. Can you explain this thing, “excess of cast boolits”?
Boolits ready to load - setting in a container - waiting for a empty case so you can load them . Haha haha

[rintinglen]

I find that I want to taper crimp to .470-.471 at the case mouth to avoid setback and to assure a proper fit in my 45 ACP ammo.

[JimB..]

Just noticed that nobody mentioned the OP’s choreboy purchase.

You bought a couple types, you don’t want to use the plated one, just the pure copper one.

As an aside, I taper crimp just enough to remove the belling, not to try to prevent setback. Too much crimp cuts into the powder coating and that’s not ideal.

[guy_with_boolits]

Just noticed that nobody mentioned the OP’s choreboy purchase.

You bought a couple types, you don’t want to use the plated one, just the pure copper one.

As an aside, I taper crimp just enough to remove the belling, not to try to prevent setback. Too much crimp cuts into the powder coating and that’s not ideal.

Okay so unlike my usual ramblings..I dont have any data right now for this..however:

I seem to notice that I cant get rounds to plunk unless I taper very very slightly past the point of just removing the flare, so that there is a very tiny, slight inward angle, and upon inspection of pulled boolits this seems to push inward on the boolits

Not sure if this is a combination of my COAL and/or PC thickness or what. I am paying very close attention to the taper process and I cant seem to avoid needing this.

[reddog81]

A slight taper crimp isn’t going to hurt anything.

[onelight]

A slight taper crimp isn’t going to hurt anything.
If it did none of mine would work , they all get some crimp.

[P Flados]

The more you taper crimp, the smaller the bullet gets up near the mouth. As long as it does not cause leading, a little bullet squeezing during crimping should be just fine.

[JimB..]

As they said above, a very little is fine, and as you said earlier, far better to seat in one operation and crimp in another.

To check if there is a potential issue just use your bullet puller to take one apart and see if you’ve torn the coating.