1882 SAA and 45 Colt Black Powder

[bigwagon]

A couple of months ago I picked up a well-used 1882 Colt Single Action Army in 45 Colt. It's a shooter grade gun at best, and I wanted to shoot it, so this prompted me to finally get my act together and start casting lead. I had been preparing for it since last winter when I put together the equipment to smelt about 130 pounds of wheel weights that I had collected for a different project about 15 years ago. The smelting was successful and I ended up with a nice quantity of ingots, so buying the Colt lit a fire to get some molds and start casting. I bought a Lyman 454190 on eBay and picked up a Lee 10-pound pot at a gunshow, so I was ready to go last week and cast up 100 bullets without too many problems once I got the mold up to temp. Next I needed to concoct a home-brew black powder lube, which made I with 50% local beeswax, 40 percent Crisco and 10 percent olive oil, then pan lubed and sized to .452. That was the last challenge because reloading equipment is out of stock everywhere! I was able to find a Lee breech lock lube/sizer kit on eBay but I couldn't locate the breech kit to use it in a press, so I just used it whack-a-mole style, which actually worked just fine. Got some Goex FFFg locally and loaded up a couple dozen rounds with about 33 grains. I've been reloading for over 30 years, but this was a very satisfying project and I feel like I have achieved a new level in the hobby. This forum was a great help as I researched a lot of questions. Here's the result.

https://i.imgur.com/9GQvSLeh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/szHCQnrh.jpg

Video of the first firing:


https://youtu.be/-lvwmRS9ur8

[Outpost75]

Bravo Zulu!! Outstanding!

[Walks]

Nice bit of breeze, just enough to clear away the smoke for the next shot.
Looked to be even recoil. Hope it shot as good as those rounds looked.
Ya, can't ask for better then that.

[Castaway]

Good story. Like the pistol and bullets. Looking at the loaded cartridges, you might want to apply a tighter roll crimp. Black powder, even at 33 grains has vicious recoil and will possibly pull the 4th or 5th bullet enough to bind the cylinder. Ask me how I know.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Great project and post. How did your target look?

DG

[Dave T]

Only problem I see is sizing your bullets to .452". The groove diameter on most of the original 1st Gen Colts I owned was closer to .454". That was the standard bullet diameter for the 45 Colt up until the 2nd Generation guns came along with .451" groove diameters.

All that being said, if your loads shot good then you can disregard all the above. Always go with what works. (smile)

Dave

[DougGuy]

I was going to mention the same thing Dave T said. You would want to size to a light drag fit in the throats if possible.

[Butzbach]

Congratulations and well done! (Cock it slower so we can here all four clicks!) You need to get the giant hole in the end of that barrel fixed too. :-P

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Pistol appears to be in very nice shape to me. I would be proud to own it.

[bigwagon]

Only problem I see is sizing your bullets to .452". The groove diameter on most of the original 1st Gen Colts I owned was closer to .454". That was the standard bullet diameter for the 45 Colt up until the 2nd Generation guns came along with .451" groove diameters.



Dave

This was something I went back and forth on. The bullets dropped from the mold at about .455. I loaded up a dummy with an unsized bullet and it wouldn't even chamber into this gun or another 2nd Gen I have with larger throats, so I decided to go with the .452 sizer. I wanted to try .454 too, and may do that eventually, but the .452 was the only sizer I could find in stock anywhere! But I might play around with this later. The .452s are a tight fit in the throats of this 1st gen but drop straight through the cylinder of my 2nd Gen, so I won't be able to use the same bullets for both. It was reasonably accurate all things considered, but not exactly a tack driver. Doesn't help that the sight is filed so short it shoots about 15 inches high @ 15 yards. But all in all, I'm happy with everything so far as a starting point.

[DougGuy]

Now that you have the approximate measurements on the throats, or at least have something to go on, have you pushed a soft lead ball through the bore? Curious to see what it measures and if it will or will not go through the throats from the front.

[sharps4590]

Unfortunately it is not uncommon for the cylinder throats and groove diameters to be quite a bit different on 1st Gen. Colt SAA's.

[missionary5155]

I might add we found range scrap to be a good mix for our old Colts. Used to use 40-1 but Range Scrap shoots as well and we save our tin and WW for other uses.

[bigwagon]

Now that you have the approximate measurements on the throats, or at least have something to go on, have you pushed a soft lead ball through the bore? Curious to see what it measures and if it will or will not go through the throats from the front.
I'd like to try that for this and a few other guns I have. I assume a slug of pure lead is the easiest way to do this?

[missionary5155]

Pure is as soft as lead gets. If you can cut the lead with a finger nail it is soft enough.
Give it a finger rub with some oil before starting

[Walks]

Ya might wanna try some lighter weight bullets when you can get your hands on them.
With a lighter bullet that doesn't take up as much room in the case, you might use a filler under the bullet. I used 2 wonder wads when I shot BP in .45Colt for Cowboy Shooting.

[JRD]

Well done Bigwagon.
Years ago I loaded up some 44-40's for an 1883 vintage Colt. While the cleanup is more of a chore than light smokeless loads, shooting black powder cartridges was a very satisfying experience. Black powder loads give much more of a roar and belch fire and smoke compared to light smokeless loads.
Good for you. I'm glad you enjoyed the process.
Jason

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Hard to believe that the grips on that pistol are original.

[DougGuy]

I'd like to try that for this and a few other guns I have. I assume a slug of pure lead is the easiest way to do this?

Yes because it doesn't have any springback in it like an alloyed ball or a boolit would have. I use the egg sinkers at wallyworld in the fishing aisle.

[mack1]

I have found with loose dimentions accuracy seems to improve with more compression to a point. I would increase the amount of powder while noting the amount of fouling and how hard it is to get the best results. The lube used may change the fouling also so some experimentation there may be needed. I will also add clip on ww may be to hard, I like 20-1 but 50/50 pure coww may work also but may harden over time so what works now may not in a year depends on how long one stores boolits.

[bigwagon]

Thanks for all the comments. It just goes to show that while I have mainly been focused on the basics of producing functional bullets and loaded ammunition, there is still so much more to learn.

[franklin_m]

I'm watching this with interest. Round .454 over 30gr Pyrodex and lubed felt wad it shoots great.

I just bought a conversion cylinder for my 1858 Pietta New Army, and came up with some 45LC brass from another member. I just finished loading ten 45LC cases w/ 30gr Pyrodex, over powder card, lubed wad, and 454 round ball. I'm using LR primers BC that's all I have. After loaded and crimped, I dipped exposed part of ball in melted 50/50 mix of lamb tallow and beeswax (same as what used for felt wads).

Any thoughts from the group?

[cowboy4evr]

The easy way to slug a barrel is order slugs from Veral @ LBT Molds . They have a wire tip so you can push just in the barrel and then grap the wire and pull them out . I believe they come 10 in a pack and are not expensive . He has them for many calibers . I have used them for years with satisfaction . Just slide your cleaning rod ( with the T-type handle over the wire tip ) to tap them in the barrel . lightly oil first . Regards Paul

[franklin_m]

As a follow up to my post above, finally got to the range today to shoot them. They worked really well. I'd only loaded 15, but they all worked. Even though I used rifle primers, firing pin divot was nice and distinct. So I think I've found something to get me through the ammo shortage!

[greenjoytj]

45 Colt casting Lyman 454190. Here's the result.

https://i.imgur.com/szHCQnrh.jpg

I like that little 20 rd. ctg. box. Tell me about it, is it cardboard or plastic?

[kenblacksmith]

Very Nice Work !

[bigwagon]

https://i.imgur.com/szHCQnrh.jpg

I like that little 20 rd. ctg. box. Tell me about it, is it cardboard or plastic?
The tray is from Hornady 20 round handgun ammo boxes. It is plastic and is a handy size. I have a couple of them and use them for 44/45 Cal BP loaded ammo.

[Dave T]

I love the weight, profile and look of that Lyman 454190. Unfortunately it doesn't carry enough lube for more than a cylinder (five shots) or so.

I'm shooting Big-Lube bullets from Mark Whyte. They are 5g too light (250 vs 255) and the profile is wrong historically, but I can shoot 50 rounds through my tightly fitted USFA single actions without any cylinder binding.

Dave

[Tar Heel]

Great read, great pics, and outstanding video! Well done.

[greenjoytj]

I love the weight, profile and look of that Lyman 454190.
Unfortunately it doesn't carry enough lube for more than a cylinder (five shots) or so.

I'm shooting Big-Lube bullets from Mark Whyte. They are 5g too light (250 vs 255) and the profile is wrong historically, but I can shoot 50 rounds through my tightly fitted USFA single actions without any cylinder binding. Dave

Too bad the Big Lube mold drops bullets so large in diameter, I would have bough a mold.

My SAECO #955 drops at .456” and after Lubri-sizing down to .452” the crimp groove is virtually smeared away. Sizing in a LEE nose first sizing die save the crimp groove but causes huge fins or flashings to hang from the base edge. I haven’t thought of a way to remove the fins that doesn’t damage the base edges. Simple cutting with a razor blade or box cutter damaged the base edges.

[Dave T]

Too bad the Big Lube mold drops bullets so large in diameter, I would have bough a mold.

The Big Lube 45 Colt bullets I'm buying from Mark Whyte are offered in .454" and .452". Since the chamber mouths on all my USFA single actions are right at .452" those are the bullets I order. Squeezed down to .452" doesn't seem to reduce the lube carrying groove and I have fired 50 rounds of black powder loads behind these bullets with no binding of the cylinder.

YMMV,
Dave

[bigwagon]

I love the weight, profile and look of that Lyman 454190. Unfortunately it doesn't carry enough lube for more than a cylinder (five shots) or so.



Dave

I haven't actually had too much trouble with fouling. I'm using a home brew mix of beeswax, crisco and olive oil and last time out I put 20 rounds through it with no binding or other problems. I'm not sure if I could get away with 50 rounds, but I think 30 or so would be no problem, and that's with no additional lubrication.